F2P Mage and range underpowered

[quelmotz]

PJing won't necessarily kill a well prepared mage, but it will be DAMN annoying when you waste your food/pots/whatever and then have to run, as the maddest said.

[compfreak847]

PJing won't necessarily kill a well prepared mage, but it will be DAMN annoying when you waste your food/pots/whatever and then have to run, as the maddest said.

 

As happens in virtually all PVP fights that aren't teleblocked or past level 20 wildy. Without any decent KOs, FTP pkers simply fight until they are out of food and tele. At least at this level, it's fairly likely their opponent won't have the magic level to tele, and will have fairly low HP and thus be KOed easily by the 16 hits.

[The_Maddest]

PJing won't necessarily kill a well prepared mage, but it will be DAMN annoying when you waste your food/pots/whatever and then have to run, as the maddest said.

 

As happens in virtually all PVP fights that aren't teleblocked or past level 20 wildy. Without any decent KOs, FTP pkers simply fight until they are out of food and tele. At least at this level, it's fairly likely their opponent won't have the magic level to tele, and will have fairly low HP and thus be KOed easily by the 16 hits.

That is complete and utter [cabbage]. About 50% of the time when I solo PK either I die or my opponent dies. Don't try and bluff your way through this area of the game which you OBVIOUSLY have no experience with.

[compfreak847]

That is complete and utter [cabbage]. About 50% of the time when I solo PK either I die or my opponent dies. Don't try and bluff your way through this area of the game which you OBVIOUSLY have no experience with.

 

What on EARTH are you talking about? You already admitted you have very littex experience PKing in the 35- combat field. And the kill rate sure as heck isn't anywhere close to 50%. I'd estimate mine to be under 20% on my mage pure, and even less then that on my ranger.

[sees_all1]

That is complete and utter [cabbage]. About 50% of the time when I solo PK either I die or my opponent dies. Don't try and bluff your way through this area of the game which you OBVIOUSLY have no experience with.

 

What on EARTH are you talking about? You already admitted you have very littex experience PKing in the 35- combat field. And the kill rate sure as heck isn't anywhere close to 50%. I'd estimate mine to be under 20% on my mage pure, and even less then that on my ranger.

 

 

 

The last time I've pked with my Mage (Sqelt, level 38 or 39?) was about 2 or 3 months ago. Fortunately F2P hasn't changed since then, so I believe my opinion is still valid.

 

 

 

Sqelt has the mage level to do earth blast... 2? levels from fire. Anyhow, hitting a 15 is about the same as hitting a 16, imho.

 

At level 38, you'll find that there are many level 45-47 pure rangers who will gladly relieve you of a fight.

 

As long as there isn't another person willing to jump in, I'd estimate my kill rate to be around 40-50% -- about 9/10 times, the other player WON'T teleport, but they WILL run to a safe spot. In F2P, safespots are everywhere, and getting to one takes 2 minutes at most while running.

 

Binding isn't effective, because all you get is a bind, and one hit in, and they're running again.

 

There are also plenty of players near my level who are strength pures - they have 40 attack, no defense, and a ton of strength. They hit about 14-15, too, with a possibility of a 2h.

 

 

 

From combat levels 20-35, I'd consider myself untouchable as a mage. Considering where I'm at now, not so. I believe after combat level 35, mage is no longer the best F2P class.

[compfreak847]

Why would you be fighting 45-47 pure rangers? First of all, you should be under 35 combat. Second of all, your comparing people your levels - obviously someone 10 levels higher is going to own you, just as you would destroy a level 25.

 

 

 

A meleer level 35 with 40 attack is barely going to have 40 strength, so your "high strength" argument is BS. And that's with level 1 prayer, so he loses EVERYTHING.

 

 

 

As is your signature, the max hit of the meleer is a whopping 11 :roll:

[The_Maddest]

As happens in virtually all PVP fights that aren't teleblocked or past level 20 wildy.

That, compfreak, is what on earth I am talking about. You also said teleblock. This further led me to the conclusion that you're talking about all levels.

 

 

 

And BTW, a kill generally isn't registered as a KO unless the person defeated has food left. A DM doesn't result in a KO.

[compfreak847]

Nope, still not talking about higher levels. Just covering for when someone jumps in with teleblock. Why would I refer to level 59 magic then speak of teleblock?

 

 

 

Let me straighten this out for you. I'm talking about pure mage PKers, combat level 30-35, with level 59 magic and low HP. They are fighting their melee counterparts with 1 prayer and a max hit of 11.

 

 

 

Obviously a KO only counts if the person has food left; it's the entire definition of a KO. It's really not necessary to "inform" me of that.

[Sir_Kurity]

Last time i f2p PKed was with Estorrath, 2 months ago, i had 43 prayer, 1 defense, and somewhere between 60-65 magic. The fight that people didn't run or tele, i generally won. I had no deaths. And only ran away once (range 2her, top of my level range).

 

 

 

Most of my kills were from rangers, i out hit them in both damage, AND accuracy.

 

 

 

My luck also netted me a corrupt dragon square shield. was 900k richer =D.

 

 

 

Yes, at that time, no one my level could beat me in a fair fight.

[compfreak847]

Lucky with 43 prayer. Mage pures generally don't train prayer.

[Sir_Kurity]

I was special =D.

 

 

 

Hey it won me fights, why not use it.

[The_Maddest]

Nope, still not talking about higher levels. Just covering for when someone jumps in with teleblock. Why would I refer to level 59 magic then speak of teleblock?

 

 

 

Let me straighten this out for you. I'm talking about pure mage PKers, combat level 30-35, with level 59 magic and low HP. They are fighting their melee counterparts with 1 prayer and a max hit of 11.

 

 

 

Obviously a KO only counts if the person has food left; it's the entire definition of a KO. It's really not necessary to "inform" me of that.

Look, you said virtually all PvP fights and talked about teleblock. I don't see how either of those statements refers to pure mages under the combat lv 35.

 

 

 

I'm going to lay out my points very clearly for you. Under the combat of 35:

 

- Mage doesn't "own" to the degree you've stated. It does have the upper hand against melee though

 

- Magic has no KO, and so if the opponent is to die, it will be by him not escaping. This is unlikely because most of the fighting is around banks. If it isn't, the opponent will almost definitely have a teleport with them.

 

- As a result of the last point, kills are not obtained, meaning both parties lose out

 

- If the mage gets extremely lucky and hits a number of 16s in a row and gets a KO, they get crap loot because people at that level don't risk 25k. Most PKers raise strength before attack, so it is more likely for them to have 20-30 attack at that time.

[compfreak847]

 

- Mage doesn't "own" to the degree you've stated. It does have the upper hand against melee though

 

It most certainly does. It hits far more then the other two combat skills

 

 

 

 

- Magic has no KO, and so if the opponent is to die, it will be by him not escaping. This is unlikely because most of the fighting is around banks. If it isn't, the opponent will almost definitely have a teleport with them.

 

At a level when most players have 20-30 HP and the max hit of the other classes is 11, 16 counts as an extremely effective KO.

 

 

 

- As a result of the last point, kills are not obtained, meaning both parties lose out

 

- If the mage gets extremely lucky and hits a number of 16s in a row and gets a KO, they get crap loot because people at that level don't risk 25k. Most PKers raise strength before attack, so it is more likely for them to have 20-30 attack at that time.

 

Because low level PKing has very few costs, it's fairly easy to break even - much more so then range or melee.

[Sir_Kurity]

I agree with comp, melee is unranged, less accuracy and dose less damage at same level. A r2h can hit 17 at the time mages can hit 16, thats one extra than a mage, and the "ko" is definitely not consistent.

 

 

 

1 extra damage is not a KO, i would rather have constant 16's.

[quelmotz]

Ok having a max hit of 16 at 35- combat levels might be great, but look at the costs. A fire blast costs about 400gp per blast and that is A LOT for a f2p. Of course, that's cheap crap for a mem but we're talking about F2p here. So I don't see how they are going to break even getting armor like mith or even iron(str pures anyone?), unless they get a lucky drop.

[Sir_Kurity]

I don't deny the cost is a gigantic pain in the [wagon], but in terms of power, its fairly balanced.

[quelmotz]

Cost is power, but mages cost too much for their power.

[Sir_Kurity]

I personally think its worth it. Its only marginally more, what 50k isnt really that much, even if its ongoing, when there is potential for drops of up to an over 1 million in pvp worlds, 50k is tiny.

[The_Maddest]

 

- Mage doesn't "own" to the degree you've stated. It does have the upper hand against melee though

 

It most certainly does. It hits far more then the other two combat skills

It outhits melee by fair margin if they are in iron armour, but rangers have d'hide and RAPID hits which put up a rather good fight against magic.

 

 

 

 

- Magic has no KO, and so if the opponent is to die, it will be by him not escaping. This is unlikely because most of the fighting is around banks. If it isn't, the opponent will almost definitely have a teleport with them.

 

At a level when most players have 20-30 HP and the max hit of the other classes is 11, 16 counts as an extremely effective KO.

If the opponent is a mediocrely fast eater, he can out eat the mage. Remember, magic has very slow attacks - not like range where you find it very hard to eat through rapid 18s in a no armour fight. If the opponent knows the mage can hit 16, as soon as they get to 16hp, they will eat. Bear in mind, the mage will also have low hp and the opponents hits will be faster than your own.

 

 

 

- As a result of the last point, kills are not obtained, meaning both parties lose out

 

- If the mage gets extremely lucky and hits a number of 16s in a row and gets a KO, they get crap loot because people at that level don't risk 25k. Most PKers raise strength before attack, so it is more likely for them to have 20-30 attack at that time.

 

Because low level PKing has very few costs, it's fairly easy to break even - much more so then range or melee.

Again, [cabbage]. How do you pay for 300+ a cast of fireblast, possibly with binds with magic ammies and mithril scimitars as loot? My mage pure only ever PKed because they were heavily subsidised by my main, and that was in the old wildy, multicombat areas, where I got most of the kills and I got exactly what my opponent dropped.

 

 

 

1 extra damage is not a KO, i would rather have constant 16's.

On the contrary, anything higher than your main weapon's hits can be used pretty well as a KO.

 

 

 

I don't deny the cost is a gigantic pain in the [wagon], but in terms of power, its fairly balanced.

What use is the power when you hardly get kills, the kills you do get are magic amulets and mith picks, and you spend 400gp PER CAST.

[compfreak847]

It outhits melee by fair margin if they are in iron armour, but rangers have d'hide and RAPID hits which put up a rather good fight against magic.

 

Not at all. In order to have d hide, they must have 40 defence; this will drastically penalize their range level and max hit.

 

 

 

If the opponent is a mediocrely fast eater, he can out eat the mage. Remember, magic has very slow attacks - not like range where you find it very hard to eat through rapid 18s in a no armour fight. If the opponent knows the mage can hit 16, as soon as they get to 16hp, they will eat. Bear in mind, the mage will also have low hp and the opponents hits will be faster than your own.

 

Mage is only 1 bar slower then a whip, and I wasn't aware that range can hit "rapid 18s" at level 40 range :roll:

 

 

 

So now your argument is that "well, if they eat fast, they can eat faster then the mage can hit"? Really?

 

 

 

How do you pay for 300+ a cast of fireblast, possibly with binds with magic ammies and mithril scimitars as loot? My mage pure only ever PKed because they were heavily subsidised by my main, and that was in the old wildy, multicombat areas, where I got most of the kills and I got exactly what my opponent dropped.

 

Your forgetting the little incident of rune scimitars, along with the substantial profit of adamant arrows. One does not use "300+" casts of fire blast; that would be 2.1k+ damage, equivalent to 230+ salmon or 130+ lobsters in a single fight. Another made up number of yours, I suppose? :roll:

 

 

 

On the contrary, anything higher than your main weapon's hits can be used pretty well as a KO.

 

Except that in this case, your max hit is 16 while your opponents is 11. You already have a built in KO, similar to DH.

 

 

 

What use is the power when you hardly get kills, the kills you do get are magic amulets and mith picks, and you spend 400gp PER CAST.

 

See above. As I said before, it's not that difficult to break even with mage PKing. Obviously your not going to make a huge profit, but that's true for any PKing.

[Sir_Kurity]

Actually with a rune 2h, 40 attack and 48 strength, equivalent to 59 magic, rune 2h dose 17 damage.

 

 

 

Yes, potted AND prayed. With a rune 2h. Actually assuming he dosent have prayer, because few people ever do at that level, (except me =D) then the max hit with rune 2h is 15, and the max hit of rune longsword is 13.

 

 

 

Lets also assume he dosent pot, few people that level pot either. So he has a grand max hit of. 12 with rune longsword and 14 with rune 2h.

 

 

 

Only potted AND prayed, dose the meleer stand a chance.

 

 

 

At 59 range, (equivalent to 59 mage duh =D)

 

Range max hit is 11, WITH eagle eye. No prayer it goes down to 10.

 

 

 

ID say mage has a fair chance at that, assuming range dosent have a "ko" either.

[compfreak847]

No, because the mage has much lower HP, thanks to non-combat methods of training mage. Due to his higher HP, the meleer maxes out at 42 strength and 1 prayer. If he takes a R2H, he's going to be losing 70k+ per kill thanks to no protect item.

[The_Maddest]

It outhits melee by fair margin if they are in iron armour, but rangers have d'hide and RAPID hits which put up a rather good fight against magic.

 

Not at all. In order to have d hide, they must have 40 defence; this will drastically penalize their range level and max hit.

No, 40 ranged is the only requirement to use d'hide chaps and vambraces. Combined with a leather body and coif, this leads to a fair few splashes

 

 

 

If the opponent is a mediocrely fast eater, he can out eat the mage. Remember, magic has very slow attacks - not like range where you find it very hard to eat through rapid 18s in a no armour fight. If the opponent knows the mage can hit 16, as soon as they get to 16hp, they will eat. Bear in mind, the mage will also have low hp and the opponents hits will be faster than your own.

 

Mage is only 1 bar slower then a whip, and I wasn't aware that range can hit "rapid 18s" at level 40 range :roll:

The rapid 18s are from my main's experience fighting rangers. I'm sorry, aren't we allowed to talk about fighting above the combat of 40 on this thread?

 

 

 

So now your argument is that "well, if they eat fast, they can eat faster then the mage can hit"? Really?

This is in the hypothetical example of the meleer using iron armour as opposed to monks/wizard robes/d'hide chaps. In the context, I was talking about if the mage gets a few lucky hits in and gets his opponent to low hp. In that situation, the slow rate at which the magician casts his spells leads to the opponent eating their way out of the tight spot.

 

 

 

How do you pay for 300+ a cast of fireblast, possibly with binds with magic ammies and mithril scimitars as loot? My mage pure only ever PKed because they were heavily subsidised by my main, and that was in the old wildy, multicombat areas, where I got most of the kills and I got exactly what my opponent dropped.

Your forgetting the little incident of rune scimitars, along with the substantial profit of adamant arrows. One does not use "300+" casts of fire blast; that would be 2.1k+ damage, equivalent to 230+ salmon or 130+ lobsters in a single fight. Another made up number of yours, I suppose? :roll:

If you read what I said, it says that you use 300 GOLD PIECES PER CAST, not 300 casts of the spell. You also fail to notice that the new PvP system gives crap loot which doesn't nearly cover the cost of spells used.

 

 

 

On the contrary, anything higher than your main weapon's hits can be used pretty well as a KO.

 

Except that in this case, your max hit is 16 while your opponents is 11. You already have a built in KO, similar to DH.

Notice how I'm not going to jump in and sarcastically comment on how pures with 40 combat are going to have 70 atk/str/def and dharoks in F2P. The comparison does not work because dharok's normal hits hits are much, much higher than the food consumed heals. The same is not true for magic, which, hits only slightly higher than the food consumed heals

 

 

 

What use is the power when you hardly get kills, the kills you do get are magic amulets and mith picks, and you spend 400gp PER CAST.

 

See above. As I said before, it's not that difficult to break even with mage PKing. Obviously your not going to make a huge profit, but that's true for any PKing.

Explain how I can break even with 300gp+ used per cast but only around 300gp loot?

 

 

 

The fact that attack isn't raised at the same rate as strength doesn't seem to register in your head. PKers at that lv do NOT use rune weaponry. Heck, at 40 combat only a few do.

[llamster]

 

So now your argument is that "well, if they eat fast, they can eat faster then the mage can hit"? Really?

This is in the hypothetical example of the meleer using iron armour as opposed to monks/wizard robes/d'hide chaps. In the context, I was talking about if the mage gets a few lucky hits in and gets his opponent to low hp. In that situation, the slow rate at which the magician casts his spells leads to the opponent eating their way out of the tight spot.

 

 

 

 

Irrelevant since fire blast hits far harder than a rune scimitar or adamant arrows at that level, even if you factor in the slower speed. Mage spells are longsword speed, one notch less than scimitar.

 

 

 

On the contrary, anything higher than your main weapon's hits can be used pretty well as a KO.

 

Except that in this case, your max hit is 16 while your opponents is 11. You already have a built in KO, similar to DH.

Notice how I'm not going to jump in and sarcastically comment on how pures with 40 combat are going to have 70 atk/str/def and dharoks in F2P. The comparison does not work because dharok's normal hits hits are much, much higher than the food consumed heals. The same is not true for magic, which, hits only slightly higher than the food consumed heals

 

 

 

This is a rant about how powerful mage is compared to range/melee, am I correct? The argument you use can apply to the other two combat styles. And, as compfreak pointed out, mage is the most powerful if you're a pure.

 

 

 

What use is the power when you hardly get kills, the kills you do get are magic amulets and mith picks, and you spend 400gp PER CAST.

 

See above. As I said before, it's not that difficult to break even with mage PKing. Obviously your not going to make a huge profit, but that's true for any PKing.

Explain how I can break even with 300gp+ used per cast but only around 300gp loot?

 

 

 

 

Try getting some drop potential. I got a kill the first day PvP worlds came out, with ZERO drop potential, BEFORE the update that improved PvP loot, and the fight basically consisted of me five-hitting a one-itemer. The drops were worth at least 500gp.

[compfreak847]

Also, the other player is losing 50k+ with a RTH and scimmy. Drops are NO problem at all, especally considering that the meleer probably doesn't have the mage level to tele.