Have homosexuals given the government any reason at all to do so? Their only argument is that they wish to engage in a loving, caring relationship.

 

 

 

 

Can you answer that question for heterosexuals?

 

 

 

Homosexuals shouldn't have to do anything, considering the Bill of Rights

 

 

 

 

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

 

 

Article 1.

 

 

 

* All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

 

 

 

^ Top

 

Article 2.

 

 

 

* Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

 

 

 

 

 

One day USA will finally catch up with other countries and allow gay marriage, and it will be a point of humiliation like slavery is now. Once the old people die off hopefully gay marriage will pass.

Have homosexuals given the government any reason at all to do so? Their only argument is that they wish to engage in a loving, caring relationship.

 

 

 

 

Can you answer that question for heterosexuals?

 

 

 

Homosexuals shouldn't have to do anything, considering the Bill of Rights

 

 

 

 

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

 

 

Article 1.

 

 

 

* All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

 

 

 

^ Top

 

Article 2.

 

 

 

* Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

 

 

 

 

 

One day USA will finally catch up with other countries and allow gay marriage, and it will be a point of humiliation like slavery is now. Once the old people die off hopefully gay marriage will pass.

 

Didn't all countries have slavery though? Why is only the U.S. at fault for it?

[hide=][/hide]

 

 

 

That's all I have got to say.

 

QFT.

 

 

 

Religion holds back civilization.

 

 

 

 

 

no it doesn't. people hate gays because they hate gays. (stupid but true.)

 

 

 

i'm atheist and i'm strictly against gay people and their cultures.

 

People hate gays because people say that god said they should.

 

The Bible Argument is [cabbage].

 

The Bible also says that he who works on the Sabbath will have to be put to death. Unfortunately, I must go to school during the Sabbath. Do I have to kill myself, or can I turn myself in?

 

Reference points, anyone?

Have homosexuals given the government any reason at all to do so? Their only argument is that they wish to engage in a loving, caring relationship.

 

 

 

 

Can you answer that question for heterosexuals?

 

 

 

Homosexuals shouldn't have to do anything, considering the Bill of Rights

 

 

 

 

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

 

 

Article 1.

 

 

 

* All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

 

 

 

^ Top

 

Article 2.

 

 

 

* Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

 

 

 

 

 

One day USA will finally catch up with other countries and allow gay marriage, and it will be a point of humiliation like slavery is now. Once the old people die off hopefully gay marriage will pass.

 

Didn't all countries have slavery though? Why is only the U.S. at fault for it?

 

Because we had a constitution that states that every man is free.

As a Canadian I must admit I am not particularly familiar with the American constitution, but doesn't that part of it speak only of American citizens?

Good for Iowa.

As a Canadian I must admit I am not particularly familiar with the American constitution, but doesn't that part of it speak only of American citizens?

 

The American Constitution really is for Americans; not elsewhere. It wouldn't hold water in an international area such as this, mainly...

 

 

 

Ultimately, what stops the rest of states from legalizing it is the popular vote. It's both a strength and a weakness in democracy; yes, the people decide, but at the most extreme it's 49% of the population that doesn't win, and they're usually going to fight to get their way.

 

California's Prop. 8 yet again. I believe it was 52/48 for banning it, and that 'minority' is fighting to repeal it.

Have homosexuals given the government any reason at all to do so? Their only argument is that they wish to engage in a loving, caring relationship.

 

 

 

 

Can you answer that question for heterosexuals?

 

 

 

Homosexuals shouldn't have to do anything, considering the Bill of Rights

 

 

 

 

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

 

 

Article 1.

 

 

 

* All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

 

 

 

^ Top

 

Article 2.

 

 

 

* Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

 

 

 

 

 

One day USA will finally catch up with other countries and allow gay marriage, and it will be a point of humiliation like slavery is now. Once the old people die off hopefully gay marriage will pass.

 

Didn't all countries have slavery though? Why is only the U.S. at fault for it?

 

Because we had a constitution that states that every man is free.

 

 

 

Well the US was a little late on abolishing slavery compared to other countries, and even then they had to have a civil war. Also because of how blacks were (and from my understanding, in certain parts of the country still are) still very mistreated after the abolishment, for more on that I suggest reading Black Like Me which was written in the late 50s or 60s. (It's a journal of a man who had his skin turned black and lived life as a black person in the southern USA for a while, it's non-fiction btw)

As a Canadian I must admit I am not particularly familiar with the American constitution, but doesn't that part of it speak only of American citizens?

 

 

 

Oh, if you're talking about what I posted, that's the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights

As a Christian, I say this. As long as they love each other, then they should be allowed to marry. Really, trying to control others' lives when it doesn't really involve you at all is just being sadistic, and should earn you a slap. Perhaps you should try imagining what it'd be like if that situation were imposed on you?

 

 

 

As a human being, I say this. The Westboro Baptist Church and all of its supporters are the furthest state from being Christian that is possible for a human on this plane of existence. By rights, they shouldn't be allowed to see the light of day. However, as I support the first amendment, I won't do anything. BUT, if they ever actually act on their beliefs, I'll be one of the first people to start the hunt. And I can guarantee you that when I'm done, they'll be perfect examples of why being a monster is hazardous to your health.

[hide=]

[image]

 

 

 

That's all I have got to say.

 

QFT.

 

 

 

Religion holds back civilization.

 

 

 

 

 

no it doesn't. people hate gays because they hate gays. (stupid but true.)

 

 

 

i'm atheist and i'm strictly against gay people and their cultures.

 

People hate gays because people say that god said they should.

[/hide]

 

The Bible Argument is [cabbage].

 

The Bible also says that he who works on the Sabbath will have to be put to death. Unfortunately, I must go to school during the Sabbath. Do I have to kill myself, or can I turn myself in?

 

Reference points, anyone?

 

 

 

No, that was part of the Old Testament, which was under the old covenant with God, where the laws were supposed to have the people were to love and worship Him through their actions in carrying out what was in the laws. That didn't work out, the people became more focused on carrying out the law and rituals than they were on God Himself. God then created a new Covenant where the people were't focused on Law, but being like Christ, where they would love people as well as God.

 

 

 

----------------

 

Listening to: Demon Hunter - Through the Black

[hide=]

[image]

 

 

 

That's all I have got to say.

 

QFT.

 

 

 

Religion holds back civilization.

 

 

 

 

 

no it doesn't. people hate gays because they hate gays. (stupid but true.)

 

 

 

i'm atheist and i'm strictly against gay people and their cultures.

 

People hate gays because people say that god said they should.

 

The Bible Argument is [cabbage].

 

The Bible also says that he who works on the Sabbath will have to be put to death. Unfortunately, I must go to school during the Sabbath. Do I have to kill myself, or can I turn myself in?

 

Reference points, anyone?

 

 

 

No, that was part of the Old Testament, which was under the old covenant with God, where the laws were supposed to have the people were to love and worship Him through their actions in carrying out what was in the laws. That didn't work out, the people became more focused on carrying out the law and rituals than they were on God Himself. God then created a new Covenant where the people were't focused on Law, but being like Christ, where they would love people as well as God.

 

 

 

----------------

 

Listening to: Demon Hunter - Through the Black

[/hide]

 

 

 

so god changed his mind? That would seem to entail him having made a miscalculation.

 

 

 

however, homophobia is cultural not religious. Although it will in some ways correlate especially now the reason is that religion mimics the culture of its founders. Racism was inbued into souther churches pre american civil war not because its in their but because thats what the churchgoers wanted. Homophobia is basically social awkwardness at an extreme level, not justified of course but I really get annoyed at the throw religion under the bus games.

 

 

 

As a second mimic example, deism was largely formed from scientific/intellectual communities so its basis is very scientific/intellectual. You wouldnt say a deist is scientific because they are a deist, you would say they are scientific because they are logical or whatever. Similairly, a homophobic religious person is homophobic not because of a book, but because they simply are.

 

 

 

Mod Edit: Please don't write whole posts in a single colour. It might get incredibly hard to read in different styles.

 

That would seem to entail him having made a miscalculation.

 

 

 

 

It says nowhere in the Bible that God is perfect, just all-knowing.

 

That would seem to entail him having made a miscalculation.

 

 

 

 

It says nowhere in the Bible that God is perfect, just all-knowing.

 

 

 

if he knows all then he should have known what not to do, if he is all powerful he could compress time to give himself an infinite amount of time to contemplate

 

 

 

but were getting off topic

[hide=]

[image]

 

 

 

That's all I have got to say.

 

QFT.

 

 

 

Religion holds back civilization.

 

 

 

 

 

no it doesn't. people hate gays because they hate gays. (stupid but true.)

 

 

 

i'm atheist and i'm strictly against gay people and their cultures.

 

People hate gays because people say that god said they should.

 

The Bible Argument is [cabbage].

 

The Bible also says that he who works on the Sabbath will have to be put to death. Unfortunately, I must go to school during the Sabbath. Do I have to kill myself, or can I turn myself in?

 

Reference points, anyone?

 

 

 

No, that was part of the Old Testament, which was under the old covenant with God, where the laws were supposed to have the people were to love and worship Him through their actions in carrying out what was in the laws. That didn't work out, the people became more focused on carrying out the law and rituals than they were on God Himself. God then created a new Covenant where the people were't focused on Law, but being like Christ, where they would love people as well as God.

 

 

 

----------------

 

Listening to: Demon Hunter - Through the Black

[/hide]

 

so god changed his mind? That would seem to entail him having made a miscalculation.

 

 

 

If you change your mind that means you made a mistake? Not necessarily, He wanted to give us a chance. It also set a foundation for which Jesus could minister on.

 

 

 

----------------

 

Listening to: Linkin Park - In Pieces

 

That would seem to entail him having made a miscalculation.

 

 

 

 

It says nowhere in the Bible that God is perfect, just all-knowing.

 

 

 

if he knows all then he should have known what not to do, if he is all powerful he could compress time to give himself an infinite amount of time to contemplate

 

 

 

but were getting off topic

Debates such as this are pointless in the most extreme sense of the word. Any debate with an intelligent and well versed/knowledgeable christian is.

 

That would seem to entail him having made a miscalculation.

 

 

 

 

It says nowhere in the Bible that God is perfect, just all-knowing.

 

 

 

if he knows all then he should have known what not to do, if he is all powerful he could compress time to give himself an infinite amount of time to contemplate

 

 

 

but were getting off topic

Debates such as this are pointless in the most extreme sense of the word. Any debate with an intelligent and well versed/knowledgeable christian is.

What does that mean?

To take the example of God creating the new Covenant to replace the Old Testament; if He changes his laws in response to an unfavourable reaction from society, why should we not do the same? That is really only for the Christian/Catholic (and whatever religion that can apply to) Conservatives that believe we should not change laws just because we feel like it.

 

 

 

Now, I personally have nothing against LGBT's as long as they keep it to themselves, just like I'd ask the same of a heterosexual couple. I don't mean that they can't kiss/'makeout' in public, but what I do mean is that if it goes from affectionate to sexual, the line has been crossed.

 

 

 

I must say that because of a technicality, I do oppose gay marriage if it is stated in the [insert religious text here] that marriage is exclusive to heterosexual couples. Anti-gay religious texts would exist out of practicality; the death rate was very high a thousand or two years ago, and so anything that didn't result in reproduction simply stunted the growth of a nation and maybe caused families to die out. I do feel that this has lead to homosexuality being considered a taboo today, when survival rates are much higher, and in fact the Earth could benefit from a hit to our reproduction levels.

 

 

 

I am in favour of someone being what they truly are than trying to be what they aren't however.

 

 

 

Just one more thing though. If homosexuality was in any way hereditary, it would not exist. Why? Most gays will not be passing on their DNA.

Gay people cannot control the fact that they are attracted to the same sex. They should be able to be married just like everyone else.

 

 

 

Everyone else isn't allowed to get married.

 

 

 

And lol @ whomever decided to quote the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Screw the U.N. and it's crappy declarations which no country follows in its entirety.

Gay people cannot control the fact that they are attracted to the same sex. They should be able to be married just like everyone else.

 

 

 

Everyone else isn't allowed to get married.

 

 

 

And lol @ whomever decided to quote the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Screw the U.N. and it's crappy declarations which no country follows in its entirety.

 

 

 

Yeah, damn those human rights. Those blasted things are just horrible for humanity! I mean, condemnation of genocide? Pffft, genocide happens all of the time, people. Get over it!

 

Just one more thing though. If homosexuality was in any way hereditary, it would not exist. Why? Most gays will not be passing on their DNA.

 

 

 

It's not as simple as that. One of the main ideas to explain male homosexuality that's come out in recent years is sexually antagonistic selection, which is where a trait provides reproductive advantage to one sex but not the other.

 

 

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 204459.htm

 

 

 

This article suggests that mothers of homosexuals are more fertile than average. It also explains the mode of inheritance: at least two genes, at least one of which must be on the X chromosome (which is always passed from mother to son).

 

 

 

The final paragraph of the article is especially interesting:

An unexpected implication of the new models concerns the impact that the sexually antagonistic genetic factors for male homosexuality have on the overall fecundity of a population. The findings suggest that the proportion of male homosexuals may signal a corresponding proportion of females with higher fecundity. Consequently, these factors always contribute, all else being equal, a positive net increase of the fecundity of the whole population, when compared to populations in which such factors are lower or absent. This increase grows as the population baseline fecundity decreases; this means that the genes influencing male homosexuality end up playing the role of a buffer effect on any external factors lowering the overall fecundity of the whole population.

 

So it would seem that male homosexuality actually makes us a more fertile and reproductively stable species. Ironic huh? Everyone decrying homosexuality as the bane of our existence and a threat to survival yet it's probably the opposite.

 

 

 

This research doesn't cover female homosexuality though, so I'm not sure about the possible mechanisms there. Perhaps research like this can serve as a starting point to figuring it out.

For all that get over worked about gay marriage, why should opposite genders get married? From a survival point of view, would it not be more advantageous for a male to get knocked up with every female he sees? Not that it is really required today. If marriage is indeed not required and is only benefitting the upbringing of a child, who is to say that two people of the same gender cannot do that? If it's to provide love and deepen one's relationship, why should two people of the same gender be denied from that?

Gay people cannot control the fact that they are attracted to the same sex. They should be able to be married just like everyone else.

 

 

 

Everyone else isn't allowed to get married.

 

 

 

And lol @ whomever decided to quote the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Screw the U.N. and it's crappy declarations which no country follows in its entirety.

 

 

 

Yeah, damn those human rights. Those blasted things are just horrible for humanity! I mean, condemnation of genocide? Pffft, genocide happens all of the time, people. Get over it!

 

 

 

A.) Maybe you missed the fact that the UDoHR isn't legally binding and that most countries flat out ignore it unless they're trying to run an agenda-- Then they bring it up.

 

 

 

B.) The U.N. is useless, anyway. When it comes to talk, then most of the General Assembly members (Mainly European) have loads to say and lots of criticism to throw around, but when it comes time to actually putting up or shutting up (Committing troops), they're conspicuously silent and the U.S. ends up doing most of the work.

To take the example of God creating the new Covenant to replace the Old Testament; if He changes his laws in response to an unfavourable reaction from society, why should we not do the same? That is really only for the Christian/Catholic (and whatever religion that can apply to) Conservatives that believe we should not change laws just because we feel like it.

 

 

 

Now, I personally have nothing against LGBT's as long as they keep it to themselves, just like I'd ask the same of a heterosexual couple. I don't mean that they can't kiss/'makeout' in public, but what I do mean is that if it goes from affectionate to sexual, the line has been crossed.

 

 

 

I must say that because of a technicality, I do oppose gay marriage if it is stated in the [insert religious text here] that marriage is exclusive to heterosexual couples. Anti-gay religious texts would exist out of practicality; the death rate was very high a thousand or two years ago, and so anything that didn't result in reproduction simply stunted the growth of a nation and maybe caused families to die out. I do feel that this has lead to homosexuality being considered a taboo today, when survival rates are much higher, and in fact the Earth could benefit from a hit to our reproduction levels.

 

 

 

I am in favour of someone being what they truly are than trying to be what they aren't however.

 

 

 

Just one more thing though. If homosexuality was in any way hereditary, it would not exist. Why? Most gays will not be passing on their DNA.

 

We don't know that. It could be two common genes that when they are crossed you get a homosexual person. If anyone had the choice to be homosexual or heterosexual I don't think they'd be homosexual for the simple fact that it wold basically isolate them from a majority of the population. The only way to really know if homosexuality is inherited would be to trace it through many generations, and the science hasn't been advanced enough to do that for that long.

 

That would seem to entail him having made a miscalculation.

 

 

 

 

It says nowhere in the Bible that God is perfect, just all-knowing.

 

 

 

if he knows all then he should have known what not to do, if he is all powerful he could compress time to give himself an infinite amount of time to contemplate

 

 

 

but were getting off topic

Debates such as this are pointless in the most extreme sense of the word. Any debate with an intelligent and well versed/knowledgeable christian is.

What does that mean?

It means that there are infinite "loopholes" for christians to jump through during any debate. I'm not putting down christians in the least, in fact I'm commending the abilities that well versed/knowledgeable and intelligent christians have when it comes to debating. But seeing as how neither side can be right and it all boils down to what you believe in, they are pointless debates.