3rd April 2009 - Forums for High level F2P'ers!

[Jimmyw3000]

I wish they would start giving us members actual updates... F2p are probably more happy about this than I have been happy about any update this year. I don't care about this update, don't care if they get it, don't care if they do not.

 

Tbh, my favourite updates are when p2p gets something but it helps f2p a crapload, like a new populat use for yew logs in p2p, allowing f2p yew log cutters to make more cash etc.

 

 

 

Anyway back on topic "We reckon there will be around 250,000 new forum users "

 

 

 

That suggest to me that it'lll only take around 20mil exp, if they allow ex members to use the forums too.

 

 

 

i'm estimating that around 2-5k pure f2pers have 30mil+exp and 5-10k pure f2pers with 20mil exp +.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure but if p2pers are allowed, somewhere in the regions of 10-20mil overall exp will probably be needed.-about lvl 70 ish in all f2p skills

 

 

 

And Comp: viewtopic.php?p=6563117#p6563117

 

 

 

there's more to business than you think.

[compfreak847]

And Comp: viewtopic.php?p=6563117#p6563117

 

 

 

there's more to business than you think.

 

Oh, so what are they supposed to do besides making a profit?

[Omali]

All this taken from

 

 

 

9th February 2009 - The Future of RuneScape

 

 

 

 

 

If anything, we see the members version as an expansion pack for those that really love the game and we feel both games are substantive in their own right. I want to apologise for habitually over-promoting the benefits of membership to our free players.

 

 

 

f you can't enjoy the free game in its own right then we're not doing our jobs properly. We will continue to improve the free game and, crucially, make it as fun as possible because we know that this is the way that everyone first discovers RuneScape.

 

 

 

but as one of our fundamental philosophies is that having fun is more important to us than making as much money as possible, we have removed video adverts from the game.

 

 

 

So, as you can see jagex wants free players to have fun as well, and having fun is more important to us than making as much money as possible.

 

 

 

Making forums f2p won't substantially reduce profits for jagex, and yet it will make the free play game alot funner.

 

 

 

So if anything, Free players are the players and members are the stragglers.

 

 

 

[bleep]ing pay-to-noobs. \

[Great_one]

F2P deserve the forums

 

 

 

LULZ

 

 

 

i found that hilarious! seriously, give me one good reason why? because they have been dedicated to the game? ...how does that help a business? Jagex allows them to play the game for free, and they are lucky to get that.

[compfreak847]

F2P deserve the forums

 

 

 

LULZ

 

 

 

i found that hilarious! seriously, give me one good reason why? because they have been dedicated to the game? ...how does that help a business? Jagex allows them to play the game for free, and they are lucky to get that.

 

LULZ UR STUIPD! FTP ids dedicated to the game and just cuz u pay dont make u better then us! FTP deserves updates! Besides, Jagex wants us to b happy and its not a demo and they dont care about the money! They said so, look at the annoucments rofl idiogt!

[Great_one]

F2P deserve the forums

 

 

 

LULZ

 

 

 

i found that hilarious! seriously, give me one good reason why? because they have been dedicated to the game? ...how does that help a business? Jagex allows them to play the game for free, and they are lucky to get that.

 

LULZ UR STUIPD! FTP ids dedicated to the game and just cuz u pay dont make u better then us! FTP deserves updates! Besides, Jagex wants us to b happy and its not a demo and they dont care about the money! They said so, look at the annoucments rofl idiogt!

 

lol sarcasm ftw

[Zaaps1]

 

But how do you know what the costs are?

 

 

 

As for hard drive space, all Jagex has to do is buy the hard drive. It's not like servers where you have to maintain them.

 

Do you know much about storage in an enterprise environment? Hard drives fail. Backups are required. Massive amounts of critical data are very difficult to store, index, backup, and ensure no corruption takes place - all while having it online and ready to go at a moments notice.

 

 

 

But still, 7% is a lot out of millions. Surely F2P can pay it off? Do you know the exact numbers? Runescape was run for a very long time just on f2p.

 

 

 

Plus you are disregarding the hidden benefits of f2p. Many f2p accounts are secondaries, and many of the main owners are none other than members themselves. Also, nearly all of the current p2p population was f2p for a while. You wouldn't buy something without trying it out first, so f2p serves a critical role.

[ilovesilvia]

The QFC is: 13-14-635-58620892

 

 

 

 

 

 

As Mod Mmg commented, RuneScape is different from all other MMOs in that the free game has over 12,000 hours of game time to max out all the quests, skills, content, and truly stands alone in its own right. Were also continuing to improve the free game without taking anything away from members benefits - and thats where this update comes in.

 

 

 

 

So this means that f2p only gets aboout 12,000 hours of gameplay time before they are forced to leave the game? :o So this means f2p is a demo... Can someone explain this this because I might've misunderstood. :wall:

 

 

 

Someone answer my question... does this mean f2p only gets 12,000 hours of gameplay before they are forced off the game?

[compfreak847]

 

But still, 7% is a lot out of millions. Surely F2P can pay it off? Do you know the exact numbers? Runescape was run for a very long time just on f2p.

 

Your forgetting that they are already way in the negative from the bandwidth\maintnance cost; storage isn't the only factor.

 

 

 

 

Plus you are disregarding the hidden benefits of f2p. Many f2p accounts are secondaries, and many of the main owners are none other than members themselves. Also, nearly all of the current p2p population was f2p for a while. You wouldn't buy something without trying it out first, so f2p serves a critical role.

 

Like I said, making people buy PTP was the sole point of FTP. Any update not designed to specifically do that is a waste of members money.

[Diego]

 

But still, 7% is a lot out of millions. Surely F2P can pay it off? Do you know the exact numbers? Runescape was run for a very long time just on f2p.

 

Your forgetting that they are already way in the negative from the bandwidth\maintnance cost; storage isn't the only factor.

 

 

 

 

Plus you are disregarding the hidden benefits of f2p. Many f2p accounts are secondaries, and many of the main owners are none other than members themselves. Also, nearly all of the current p2p population was f2p for a while. You wouldn't buy something without trying it out first, so f2p serves a critical role.

 

Like I said, making people buy PTP was the sole point of FTP. Any update not designed to specifically do that is a waste of members money.

 

 

 

If f2pers see that Jagex is kind enough to give them an amazing game and a nice little update every so often they may really see potential in getting great updates when and if they decide to become p2p.

 

 

 

If Jagex treats f2p like garbage and just spams all of f2p with gnomecopter style things then they might be more skeptical to give money to a company that cares about nothing but the cash..

 

 

 

Dont forget that Runescape was created as a fun thing for Andrew and his friends, it became an incredibly nice community and now its pretty much capitalized into failure but there is still a small part of runescape that is true to its origins and just about all of that is left on few runescape players and some of those are probably f2p

[compfreak847]

 

If f2pers see that Jagex is kind enough to give them an amazing game and a nice little update every so often they may really see potential in getting great updates when and if they decide to become p2p.

 

 

 

If Jagex treats f2p like garbage and just spams all of f2p with gnomecopter style things then they might be more skeptical to give money to a company that cares about nothing but the cash..

 

 

Like I said, giving you a warm fuzzy feeling isn't going to make people sign up for PTP. "Look, what a nice company they are! I don't like the game but since they are so kind, I'll give the my money!".

 

 

 

 

Dont forget that Runescape was created as a fun thing for Andrew and his friends, it became an incredibly nice community and now its pretty much capitalized into failure but there is still a small part of runescape that is true to its origins and just about all of that is left on few runescape players and some of those are probably f2p

 

It was capitalized the day it became a business, just like every other business on the planet :roll:

[Diego]

 

If f2pers see that Jagex is kind enough to give them an amazing game and a nice little update every so often they may really see potential in getting great updates when and if they decide to become p2p.

 

 

 

If Jagex treats f2p like garbage and just spams all of f2p with gnomecopter style things then they might be more skeptical to give money to a company that cares about nothing but the cash..

 

 

Like I said, giving you a warm fuzzy feeling isn't going to make people sign up for PTP. "Look, what a nice company they are! I don't like the game but since they are so kind, I'll give the my money!".

 

 

 

 

like I said, its a public relations thing. no, they wont give money because they beleive jagex is a kind, giving company (although isnt that the concept behind ur famous "charity"?), instead, they give their money because they know that if they do, they will have access to great updates, and that has been proved to them through small additions to f2p and the f2p game as a whole

 

 

 

and you can really never expect people to buy your service if they feel threatened or if they are not happy with the way you conduct business, slamming the BUY P2P OR DIE banner in their face will only scare people away

 

 

 

besides, there are probably very few cases of f2p players who have been going on for more than a year playing the game without getting members at some point or another

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dont forget that Runescape was created as a fun thing for Andrew and his friends, it became an incredibly nice community and now its pretty much capitalized into failure but there is still a small part of runescape that is true to its origins and just about all of that is left on few runescape players and some of those are probably f2p

 

It was capitalized the day it became a business, just like every other business on the planet :roll:

 

 

 

indeed

[Bini]

Wow! You still going on huh? To be honest, your arguments are getting worse and worse. Directed to Compfreak....

 

 

 

You talk like you know more about business than Jagex. You can not know how much Jagex makes of Subscribing members or F2p because you do NOT work there! Get it in your tiny little brain! Your views on F2p are so false that I don't want to imagine what you think about Real Life things cause I know I'd get very pissed off at you. But since this is the internet you can say basically anything without any consequnces except for looking like an [wagon].

 

 

 

Back to the business matter. A company can not focus on one thing only, for example profits that you claim to know if Jagex makes or not.

 

 

 

Profits. In order for Jagex to make money they need satisfied costumers (=Subscribing members). In order to keep the costumers happy they need to constantly introduce new things to the game. (=Updates)

 

But even with Updates costumers will leave the game for one reason or another which leads to Jagex wanting more and new Costumers and they have constructed a quite smart business. Talking about F2P! Yes, F2P is the smart idea. Instead of using costly ways to attract people to P2P they offer them a Free Game which can get almost anyone hooked. Now Jagex targets the F2Pers. They don't want to make the F2Pers happy with what they got but instead improve F2P so that new potential costumers will get hooked easier. When a F2Per player has played the F2P game for long enough he/she will without a doubt find out about P2P and will make a decision to either stay F2P forever (rarely happens anymore) or Subscribe at some point of their lives.

 

 

 

Letting F2Pers use the forum is only a tool to let experienced F2Pers get in contact with Jagex. And Jagex thinks that this is the easiest way to get F2Pers to tell them what to improve/add/whatever in order to make RuneScape (=Not talking specifically about F2p or P2p) more enjoyable.

 

 

 

All that was said above was very brief and are MY own views/opinions. I am not in anyway, telling you that it is the truth.

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex is a very smart company and successfull. I do admire them for their way of running a business since that's what I'm intersted in.

[compfreak847]

@ bini: All that was already accounted for. I don't need to know all about Jagex to know that they are intent upon making a profit. The ONLY way they can do that is by getting people to sign up for PTP, and as such, that is their only goal. Letting hundreds of thousands of FTP use the forums isn't suddenly going to give Jagex brilliant ideas for PTP, PTPers know more about PTP then FTPers do. It's that simple.

 

 

 

 

like I said, its a public relations thing. no, they wont give money because they beleive jagex is a kind, giving company (although isnt that the concept behind ur famous "charity"?), instead, they give their money because they know that if they do, they will have access to great updates, and that has been proved to them through small additions to f2p and the f2p game as a whole

 

 

 

and you can really never expect people to buy your service if they feel threatened or if they are not happy with the way you conduct business, slamming the BUY P2P OR DIE banner in their face will only scare people away

 

 

 

besides, there are probably very few cases of f2p players who have been going on for more than a year playing the game without getting members at some point or another

 

Obviously. That's why they feed lies about 'FTP not being a demo'. It gives them that squeaky clean corporate angel look that every business wants.

[Karvinen]

Without F2P there would not be RS at all. Nobody would pay anything for a "stupid java game with bad graphics" without getting addicted to the game for free first.

[Bini]

I know P2Pers know more about P2P than F2Pers but that's still not the point to let F2Pers on the forum. It's so F2Pers can both interact with P2Pers and Jagex. Interaction with P2Pers can give alot of them another view on P2P, give them advise on how to get P2P or in any other way get help directly from the P2Per. Costumer also acts as an advertisement. Costumer will be helping potential costumers. Even without the costumers knowledge. Same thing happens everyday in-game, Costumers come to a F2P world with Member Items on them, F2Pers see them, enough to be called advertisement for P2P.

[compfreak847]

 

I know P2Pers know more about P2P than F2Pers but that's still not the point to let F2Pers on the forum. It's so F2Pers can both interact with P2Pers and Jagex. Interaction with P2Pers can give alot of them another view on P2P, give them advise on how to get P2P or in any other way get help directly from the P2Per. Costumer also acts as an advertisement. Costumer will be helping potential costumers. Even without the costumers knowledge. Same thing happens everyday in-game, Costumers come to a F2P world with Member Items on them, F2Pers see them, enough to be called advertisement for P2P.

 

They can still read forums without PTP. And do you really think RSOF Is more mature then tif or any of the other free fansites?

 

 

 

Without F2P there would not be RS at all. Nobody would pay anything for a "stupid java game with bad graphics" without getting addicted to the game for free first.

 

Covered that in the first post, the sole point of FTP is to get people to become members.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I'm stunned that Compfreak is still going as strong as he is. You'd think that he'd drop it after 24 consecutive hours of debating, but no...

 

 

 

Anyway, I'm going to put this nail in the coffin once and for all. Compfreak, the CEO himself came out and said that freeplay isn't a demo, and Members is more of an expansion pack to the game itself. That's as cut and dry as you can get, and if you can't believe that, then it's unfortunate that you can't recognize truth when it spits at your shoes. On top of that, if Jagex really was hellbent on making a profit, don't you think that they'd only be offering a paid version of RS, or even worse, restricting the levels that one can get while on freeplay?

 

 

 

But before we go down that slippery slope, what the HELL does that have to do with opening the forums up to 20,000-200,000 high level freeplayers? You've taken this thread and turned it into a P2P vs. F2P flamewar, which isn't the point, and you're reacted to the situation like a spoiled 7 year old, which I alluded to in my first post. Grow up with this nonsense already. Whether or not Freeplay contributes anything to Jagex, or whether or not they deserve anything, at this moment, is entirely irrelevant. If you were mature, you'd have realized this by now.

 

 

 

Second, the state of the RSOF, which has been commented either here or abroad, is such that not many members would want to use it anyway, and those that do use it only use the Rants section. Do you use the RSOF? If you don't, why the hell do you care that F2P gets it?

 

 

 

Lastly, once you pay Jagex $5, it's their money. They can spend it on whatever they like, including (but not limited to) updates for Members, updates for Freeplay, updates to the forum, system updates, and all that stuff. You no longer have the right to complain (or comment, for that matter) how they spend their finances. Just because you're a paying member does not automatically make you their CFO, and you need to drop the "holier-than-thou" attitude about it. If you genuinely hate that Jagex is spending development resources into making the forums freeplay, then STOP GIVING THEM MONEY and disappear quietly.

 

 

 

I know I said that I wouldn't argue any longer, but this is getting out of hand. Be mature about the situation, or stick your bottom lip out, fold your arms, and sit quietly in a corner.

[Racheya]

Please. Someone get a mod to lock this thread or at least get people to SHUT THE [bleep] UP ABOUT F2P Vs P2P.

 

 

 

Or I'll cry - I mean it! :o I'll cry! :(

[compfreak847]

I'm stunned that Compfreak is still going as strong as he is. You'd think that he'd drop it after 24 consecutive hours of debating, but no...

 

Not a chance. With any luck I'll be able to stretch this into a week \

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I'm going to put this nail in the coffin once and for all. Compfreak, the CEO himself came out and said that freeplay isn't a demo, and Members is more of an expansion pack to the game itself. That's as cut and dry as you can get, and if you can't believe that, then it's unfortunate that you can't recognize truth when it spits at your shoes.

 

Every single company comes out and says whatever will make them look best. This isn't rocket science.

 

 

 

 

On top of that, if Jagex really was hellbent on making a profit, don't you think that they'd only be offering a paid version of RS, or even worse, restricting the levels that one can get while on freeplay?

 

 

No, because FTP is designed to hook people into members. Making an initial fee required would reduce good reviews and new player influx.

 

 

 

 

But before we go down that slippery slope, what the HELL does that have to do with opening the forums up to 20,000-200,000 high level freeplayers? You've taken this thread and turned it into a P2P vs. F2P flamewar, which isn't the point

 

Because my money is being spent to support freeloaders instead of giving me updates, and I don't like that.

 

 

 

and you're reacted to the situation like a spoiled 7 year old, which I alluded to in my first post. Grow up with this nonsense already. Whether or not Freeplay contributes anything to Jagex, or whether or not they deserve anything, at this moment, is entirely irrelevant. If you were mature, you'd have realized this by now.

 

I stated my point maturely and without flaming, and have continued to do so throughout the course of of this thread. I have conclusively proven every word of my original post, and my statement that I don't like my money being given to free players stands.

 

 

 

 

Second, the state of the RSOF, which has been commented either here or abroad, is such that not many members would want to use it anyway, and those that do use it only use the Rants section. Do you use the RSOF? If you don't, why the hell do you care that F2P gets it?

 

Because my money is paying for it.

 

 

 

 

Lastly, once you pay Jagex $5, it's their money. They can spend it on whatever they like, including (but not limited to) updates for Members, updates for Freeplay, updates to the forum, system updates, and all that stuff..

 

They most certainly can use it how they wish, as I mentioned round about my third post. And by the same token, I can comment on how they use it.

 

 

 

You no longer have the right to complain (or comment, for that matter) how they spend their finances. Just because you're a paying member does not automatically make you their CFO, and you need to drop the "holier-than-thou" attitude about it.

 

Ah yes, what was the title of this forum again? I believe it was something about runescape discussion?

 

f you genuinely hate that Jagex is spending development resources into making the forums freeplay, then STOP GIVING THEM MONEY and disappear quietly

 

I already said that they are still delivering my money's worth, but that's no reason to begin throwing fistfuls of it to freeloaders.

 

 

 

I know I said that I wouldn't argue any longer, but this is getting out of hand. Be mature about the situation, or stick your bottom lip out, fold your arms, and sit quietly in a corner.

 

Again, what's the name of this forum? I believe it had something to do with 'discussion', not 'agree with the OP or shut up'. I enjoy debating, and your welcome to either argue with me or ignore, but you sure as heck aren't going to order me off this thread.

 

 

 

 

Please. Someone get a mod to lock this thread or at least get people to SHUT THE [bleep] UP ABOUT F2P Vs P2P.

 

 

 

Or I'll cry - I mean it! :o I'll cry! :(

 

Just don't click on this thread! Even if you don't agree with us, you don't have to read it :ohnoes:

[champion]

Because my money is being spent to support freeloaders instead of giving me updates, and I don't like that.

 

What do you mean instead?

[compfreak847]

 

What do you mean instead?

 

Exactly what I said. Instead of going to R&D for an update, it's going to pay for server costs for some FTPer who hasn't paid a dime.

[Crimsoncow42]

The QFC is: 13-14-635-58620892

 

 

 

 

 

 

As Mod Mmg commented, RuneScape is different from all other MMOs in that the free game has over 12,000 hours of game time to max out all the quests, skills, content, and truly stands alone in its own right. Were also continuing to improve the free game without taking anything away from members benefits - and thats where this update comes in.

 

 

 

 

So this means that f2p only gets aboout 12,000 hours of gameplay time before they are forced to leave the game? :o So this means f2p is a demo... Can someone explain this this because I might've misunderstood. :wall:

 

 

 

Someone answer my question... does this mean f2p only gets 12,000 hours of gameplay before they are forced off the game?

 

No, 12,000 hours is the estimated time to max out all skills, content, quests in f2p.

[bluehooloovo]

The QFC is: 13-14-635-58620892

 

 

 

 

 

 

As Mod Mmg commented, RuneScape is different from all other MMOs in that the free game has over 12,000 hours of game time to max out all the quests, skills, content, and truly stands alone in its own right. Were also continuing to improve the free game without taking anything away from members benefits - and thats where this update comes in.

 

 

 

 

So this means that f2p only gets aboout 12,000 hours of gameplay time before they are forced to leave the game? :o So this means f2p is a demo... Can someone explain this this because I might've misunderstood. :wall:

 

 

 

Someone answer my question... does this mean f2p only gets 12,000 hours of gameplay before they are forced off the game?

No, f2p can play as long as they want. The 12,000 hours is an estimate of how long it would take to max out, not a limit on how long you can play.

 

 

 

On Topic (the original topic, not the compfreak vs. most of the rest of the people here war): I don't know if I'll count as "high level" enough for this, though Mod MMG did say something about 1000 total level, but even if i am, I don't know how often I'll go on the forums, because not much there interests me. Maybe the suggestions part sometimes - despite what some people think, some suggestions that members would like would also be liked by f2p'ers - but the rest of it, meh. I've got these forums, and they have less spam than what I've seen browsing the RSOF. But the option is certainly nice.

[Trollface]

 

And who's to say that US F2P's were not P2P'ers? I was, up until awhile back when I cut Membership. Besides, HIGH LEVEL PLAYERS usually have been on RS along time. I have loads of high level friends who are F2P's and have been playing almost since RS' birth.

 

 

 

So, shut your mouth and don't slag off F2P'ers. We are players too.

 

So what? You mean nothing to Jagex. They are a company, with the ONLY goal of making money. You cost them money, your an annoyance they have to put up with in hopes that you'll start paying.

 

 

 

 

How you react to a situation often times overrides how old you claim to be.

 

Exactly my point. His use of '12 year olds' as a generic, predetermined insult for anyone who dares disagree with him is ignorant at best.

 

 

 

@compfreak: Just because we pay for their server costs and what-not does not automatically make them yesterday's rubbish. You should have a more open mind to opening up the forums to Freeplay...I mean, it can't be any worse than Members (whom are "entitled") acting a damn fool, right?

 

From a humanitarian perspective, they are no better then us. From a business perspective, they are freeloading scum.

 

 

 

They're free advertisement :?