3rd April 2009 - Forums for High level F2P'ers!

[compfreak847]

Btw none of you guys know whats exactly going to happen... they might have a F2P Forums only.. or a max of 20 posts a day..

 

It's still a use of our members money to host a forum for freeloaders with payback whatsoever... :lol:

[strilmus]

.....

 

 

 

I can taste the possible irony of people using those 20 posts to rant about how they only have 20 posts.

 

 

 

The smart thing to do would be to allow unlimited access to these "select" players since abundance leads to contempt and apathy.

[Bini]

What do you think the level requirements will be?

 

Since it's not coming for a week or more we can do some guessing cause that's what we are good at.

 

 

 

These people arguing here are Pros at guessing, I believe they get paid to not use facts, just make assumptions/guesses.

 

"F2p is that, F2p does this, RSOF will go to hell if F2p'ers get access to it...bla bla bla." [cabbage]!

 

 

 

You can express your opinions here but you make it look like it has been written in stone.

 

The rants forum came back for a reason, Compfreak since you are the one complaining and you are a subscribing member why don't you just use that forum?

 

 

 

Now back to the topic, please?

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

 

Most of this argument has been (logical) opinion and nothing more. The graph is the only real evidence we have, and wasn't exactly conclusive on either point.

 

It was completely conclusive - FTP is nothing but a drag on Jagex, with operating costs far outstripping revenue, paid for out of member pockets. The ONLY reason for an update is to reel in more members, and any update that does not is simply depriving members of paid-for updates. Exactly what I said in my first post, with the proof to back it up.

 

 

 

 

You'd be correct 100% - if it weren't for the CEO coming out and saying that they simply do NOT view F2P (or its updates) as a method to gain more members. Did you miss that statement?

 

 

 

We'd also like to clear up a few issues surrounding the free game. RuneScape is different from all other MMOs in that the free game has an epic amount of content (we'd estimate over 2,000 hours worth to get all your skills up to 99 and complete all the quests) and isn't merely a demo for the members version. If anything, we see the members version as an expansion pack for those that really love the game and we feel both games are substantive in their own right. I want to apologise for habitually over-promoting the benefits of membership to our free players. I strongly believe if you love the free game you will equally love the members content and that is sufficient promotion to me. If you can't enjoy the free game in its own right then we're not doing our jobs properly. We will continue to improve the free game and, crucially, make it as fun as possible because we know that this is the way that everyone first discovers RuneScape.

 

 

 

Emphasis mine.

 

 

 

QFC 13-14-607-58364526, 5th paragraph.

 

 

 

 

 

If the average age is lowered, that is probable. Though, only high level F2P players get the chance to post on the forums. I don't know what their average level is, but it could well be higher than the average P2P'er due to the fact that being experienced takes up time, and thus will probably increase the average age of the "experienced F2P'er".

 

With comments like the '750,000 high level players', I don't have much hope on that front.

 

 

 

1) I agree with Bauke here; higher experience on Freeplay takes exponentially more time than getting it on Members.

 

2) Who said there were 750,000 high level players? The newspost said an estimated 250,000, and even then, I'm willing to believe between 15-25% of that figure.

[Bauke]

 

It's still a use of our members money to host a forum for freeloaders with payback whatsoever... :lol:

 

So... what?

 

 

 

Yeah, now it's going in circles.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Now back to the topic, please?

 

Alright alright, I'm done debating. I think everyone else should move on, too - we're getting nowhere with this debate fast. More to the point, the idea of requirements were discussed in this thread. I'm willing to believe 1,000-1,150 for starters, but others believe that there might be an in-game time requirement, much like the polls have.

[Lordjake]

If you don't like that Jagex is spending time and effort upgrading F2P, then stop giving them your money and become a 'freeloader' like me and enjoy all the wonders that non-membership provides.

 

No thanks, I already stated (multiple times) that Runescape gives a good 'bang for the buck' - but that doesn't mean it couldn't be better.

 

And what makes you think that giving f2pers forum access will make you lose some of that bang for your buck?

 

The forums are already a mess - topics often disappear within minutes of their initial posting, unless constantly bumped.

 

 

 

F2Pers could now voice their opinions on what they think could make Runescape a better game (and upgrades for f2p also affect p2p, so you still get your beloved updates).

 

Of course there will be some people who abuse their forum access, but that's what forum moderators are for. And of course, there will be more forum moderators created to deal with the influx of f2pers.

 

 

 

 

If you do still think P2P is worth subscribing to, then stop complaining because you're obviously still enjoying the updates and upgrades that you get as being a member. Jagex has always given f2p some attention, and allowing them/us to access forums isn't going to all-of-the-sudden ruin your experience in p2p.

 

Wait, so because I still think it's worth it I'm not allowed to disagree with any of Jagex actions? :-#

 

No, you can disagree with whatever you feel like, just don't freak out when you don't get what you want.

 

And just because I don't pay for RS, it doesn't mean I, and other f2pers, shouldn't be allowed to have some say (or at least the illusion of a say) in what happens to the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- due to new posts added during the typing of this, i'll more than likely be editting this later

[compfreak847]

 

No, you can disagree with whatever you feel like, just don't freak out when you don't get what you want.

 

And just because I don't pay for RS, it doesn't mean I, and other f2pers, shouldn't be allowed to have some say (or at least the illusion of a say) in what happens to the game.

 

I don't recall freaking out anywhere. And if you don't pay, you don't decide what you get.

 

 

 

 

And what makes you think that giving f2pers forum access will make you lose some of that bang for your buck?

 

The forums are already a mess - topics often disappear within minutes of their initial posting, unless constantly bumped.

 

 

 

F2Pers could now voice their opinions on what they think could make Runescape a better game (and upgrades for f2p also affect p2p, so you still get your beloved updates).

 

Of course there will be some people who abuse their forum access, but that's what forum moderators are for. And of course, there will be more forum moderators created to deal with the influx of f2pers.

 

Because it costs money for moderators and server resources to host forums, it doesn't just magically appear. An influx of FTPers, with lower age and maturity then the current set of PTPers will just mean more crap Jagex has to sort through to get to the real posts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) I agree with Bauke here; higher experience on Freeplay takes exponentially more time than getting it on Members.

 

2) Who said there were 750,000 high level players? The newspost said an estimated 250,000, and even then, I'm willing to believe between 15-25% of that figure.

 

Assumption based on the ranting going on about the 'high requirements' and just where the bar will be set.

 

 

 

 

You'd be correct 100% - if it weren't for the CEO coming out and saying that they simply do NOT view F2P (or its updates) as a method to gain more members. Did you miss that statement?

 

He's a company, not a charity. Yeah, he'll say whatever makes players think better of him, but actions speak louder then words.

 

 

 

You can express your opinions here but you make it look like it has been written in stone.

 

The rants forum came back for a reason, Compfreak since you are the one complaining and you are a subscribing member why don't you just use that forum?

 

Because the title of this forum is 'general discussion'. Discussion: To consider or examine by argument, comment, etc. (Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discuss). As long as people continue to disagree with me, I'll disagree with them and back up my post. Be sure to let me know when the name changes to "agree with the OP or shut up" forum :roll:

[Clay_More12]

P2P has a way to contact JaGex and send somei inproveents, F2P hasn't...

[compfreak847]

P2P has a way to contact JaGex and send somei inproveents, F2P hasn't...

 

Point being?

[Clay_More12]

F2Per's have brains aswell...and can improve JaGex

[Zaaps1]

 

 

 

Last year f2p gave Jagex 7% of it's income. Ok, cool. So if F2P makes up 7% of all the money Jagex receives, shouldn't f2p get 7% of all updates? If you actually look at it, f2p gets less than 7% of all updates. Members have no reason to complain.

 

 

 

In addition, half of the time, extending f2p benefits from p2p costs Jagex no money and minimal time. Giving f2p FoG for instance was only a matter of changing the script to be allowed on f2p worlds. This forum update is only a matter of allowing f2p to log into the Forums, but denying that to all f2pers under a certain level. Yes, I know a lot of kids in my High School who can do that.

 

And here's another interesting graph:

 

 

You will notice that out of all turnover, virtually all of it is from members - and the turnover after expenses is much, much lower. FTP accounts for the majority of the operating expenses, with 130 times the players that are currently paying for membership.

 

 

 

Old quote sorry, this topic moves too quick for ma skin.

 

 

 

Yes, f2p'ers outnumber members by a lot. So what? It's not the players that matter, it's the servers. Jagex maintains an almost equal amount of servers for each type, with a little more for f2p.

 

 

 

I mean, think about it. Inactive accounts effectively cost Jagex nothing. True, it takes up memory space, but memory space isn't a continuous cost, so it doesn't really mean anything.

[Bini]

 

 

 

You can express your opinions here but you make it look like it has been written in stone.

 

The rants forum came back for a reason, Compfreak since you are the one complaining and you are a subscribing member why don't you just use that forum?

 

Because the title of this forum is 'general discussion'. Discussion: To consider or examine by argument, comment, etc. (Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discuss). As long as people continue to disagree with me, I'll disagree with them and back up my post. Be sure to let me know when the name changes to "agree with the OP or shut up" forum :roll:

 

 

 

Yeah, yeah...the OP only posted what a J-Mod said about something that will happen in the near future he did not post anything regarding how F2p'ers behave, are or do things, which is what not only you but most of the people that have posted here have been discussing.

 

 

 

What you are doing is Ranting (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rant) not discussing (atleast not most of the time) the consequences or the possibilities or whatever about High level F2p players having acces to RSOF.

 

 

 

It is common sense (atleast for me) that people are Egoistic or/and Ignorant or/and Idiots at certain times of their lives.

[Lordjake]

 

No, you can disagree with whatever you feel like, just don't freak out when you don't get what you want.

 

And just because I don't pay for RS, it doesn't mean I, and other f2pers, shouldn't be allowed to have some say (or at least the illusion of a say) in what happens to the game.

 

I don't recall freaking out anywhere. And if you don't pay, you don't decide what you get.

 

You don't decide what you get even if you do pay lol.

 

 

 

 

And what makes you think that giving f2pers forum access will make you lose some of that bang for your buck?

 

The forums are already a mess - topics often disappear within minutes of their initial posting, unless constantly bumped.

 

 

 

F2Pers could now voice their opinions on what they think could make Runescape a better game (and upgrades for f2p also affect p2p, so you still get your beloved updates).

 

Of course there will be some people who abuse their forum access, but that's what forum moderators are for. And of course, there will be more forum moderators created to deal with the influx of f2pers.

 

Because it costs money for moderators and server resources to host forums, it doesn't just magically appear. An influx of FTPers, with lower age and maturity then the current set of PTPers will just mean more crap Jagex has to sort through to get to the real posts.

 

It doesn't cost Jagex anything to assign people to be forum moderators :wall:

 

As for the bandwidth, I honestly don't know or care where the money comes from because obviously Jagex has it covered - maybe they'll show advertisements on the forums for f2pers to generate some income, maybe something else.

 

Don't assume that your $5/month will get you fewer updates because an extra 50 cents of it is going to forum bandwidth.

 

 

 

But I do agree that that p2pers are much more mature than f2pers.

 

I guess maturity is gained $5/month at a time... I mean, just look at the RS forums as they are now - it's like a big Mensa meeting, all that super serious discussion going on.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

But I do agree that that p2pers are much more mature than f2pers.

 

I guess maturity is gained $5/month at a time... I mean, just look at the RS forums as they are now - it's like a big Mensa meeting, all that super serious discussion going on.

 

I'd siggy that if I had the space. Well done. :lol:

[compfreak847]

 

You don't decide what you get even if you do pay lol.

 

Nope, but you earn the right to ask.

 

 

 

 

It doesn't cost Jagex anything to assign people to be forum moderators :wall:

 

As for the bandwidth, I honestly don't know or care where the money comes from because obviously Jagex has it covered - maybe they'll show advertisements on the forums for f2pers to generate some income, maybe something else.

 

Don't assume that your $5/month will get you fewer updates because an extra 50 cents of it is going to forum bandwidth.

 

The ads won't cover it, they don't for ANYTHING FTP. And why shouldn't I assume that? Less money overall = Less Money into R&D = Fewer Updates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, yeah...the OP only posted what a J-Mod said about something that will happen in the near future he did not post anything regarding how F2p'ers behave, are or do things, which is what not only you but most of the people that have posted here have been discussing.

 

 

 

What you are doing is Ranting (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rant) not discussing (atleast not most of the time) the consequences or the possibilities or whatever about High level F2p players having acces to RSOF.

 

I posted my opinion, and argued with those who disagreed - the EXACT definition of discussing. Believe it or not, there's a bit of an overlap :roll:

 

 

 

 

Old quote sorry, this topic moves too quick for ma skin.

 

 

 

Yes, f2p'ers outnumber members by a lot. So what? It's not the players that matter, it's the servers. Jagex maintains an almost equal amount of servers for each type, with a little more for f2p.

 

 

 

I mean, think about it. Inactive accounts effectively cost Jagex nothing. True, it takes up memory space, but memory space isn't a continuous cost, so it doesn't really mean anything.

 

Hard drive space isn't free, and files must be carefully backed up and maintained. That said, I doubt storage is anything compared to bandwidth and processing power. But you get my point - that 7% of revenue from ads isn't covering over half the operating costs, and FTP is losing money.

 

 

 

 

F2Per's have brains aswell...and can improve JaGex

 

On average, less then PTPers, and since only PTP suggestions matter, they're going to get higher priority.

 

 

 

But I do agree that that p2pers are much more mature than f2pers.

 

I guess maturity is gained $5/month at a time... I mean, just look at the RS forums as they are now - it's like a big Mensa meeting, all that super serious discussion going on.

 

Oh, so now you think FTP is more mature then PTP? This should be an interesting debate :roll:

[Wachtwoord]

Just after reading the title I knew this was going to be a F2P vs. P2P flame war/discussion. Truth is, no matter how much you're going to convince your fellow TIFers, it's not gonna have any impact on the game, Jagex view, or something else relevant.

 

BTW, I'm on the pro-F2P side. We get tons and tons more of everything, who cares they get a little every now and then.

[compfreak847]

Just after reading the title I knew this was going to be a F2P vs. P2P flame war/discussion. Truth is, no matter how much you're going to convince your fellow TIFers, it's not gonna have any impact on the game, Jagex view, or something else relevant.

 

Not planning on it, I'm simply here for the fun of debating :P

[Ollyc3]

Good to see, I'm sure F2P players will give just as good input as anybody else.

[champion]

Well I'll be. Cool. Let's hope I have the requirement(s). Then again do I really want to post on the RSOF?

[Bini]

Well I'll be. Cool. Let's hope I have the requirement(s). Then again do I really want to post on the RSOF?

 

Right! Arguments like the one we had (hoping it's over) kind of kills the will to even read threads there but then again Jagex wants us too and that's all that matters and the fact that by posting constructive posts there we are actually helping ourselves and Jagex.

[Master_Smither]

Well MMG said he'd imagine around 1K total so that and an xp requirement maybe? i'm not sure but we'll see I'm sure we'll get soem great input.

[Omali]

Opening the forums to free players on FunOrb worked well because it was like adding an extra cup of frosting to a delicious cake.

 

 

 

Meanwhile, opening the forums up on Runescape will be similar to taking a pickaxe to the side of an already-leaking septic tank. The smell will be the same, there'll just be more turds on the ground to clean up.

 

 

 

The influx of new people won't even be noticable. There are already a ton of "f2p need ___" posts anyway.

[Great_one]

compfreak is right....

 

 

 

ot: with this i am just going to go on a jagex shanking spree if they are alowed to post in

 

a) monster hunting forum

 

B) market place(unless a f2p area is added)

 

 

 

*invisions f2p posts "i wAnt t0 g0 kpd n00b take me! i has 40 range and Maple b0w!!1"*

[Omali]

compfreak is right....

 

 

 

ot: with this i am just going to go on a jagex shanking spree if they are alowed to post in

 

a) monster hunting forum

 

B) market place(unless a f2p area is added)

 

 

 

*invisions f2p posts "i wAnt t0 g0 kpd n00b take me! i has 40 range and Maple b0w!!1"*

 

 

 

KPD? Kinky Pink Dragon?