I'd Like My 4th Amendment Back, Please

[Robert_de_Sable]

What if they're a suspected terrorist?

 

As much as a lot of people seem to believe, the government doesn't just pick people up off the street and say "I think you-- and you-- and you are terrorists. Come with us." When someone is suspected of terrorism, it's for a good reason.

 

 

 

Would you torture then?

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

 

What if they're actually innocent?

 

Oops.

[warri0r45]

What if they're a suspected terrorist?

 

As much as a lot of people seem to believe, the government doesn't just pick people up off the street and say "I think you-- and you-- and you are terrorists. Come with us." When someone is suspected of terrorism, it's for a good reason.

 

 

 

Would you torture then?

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

 

What if they're actually innocent?

 

Oops.

 

 

 

Of course they don't just pick people up off the street, and that's not what I was suggesting.

 

 

 

I value the concept of justice where people are innocent until proven guilty and have the right to a fair trial. I doesn't seem that you do, especially when your only response to making the critical mistake of torturing an innocent person is a flippant "oops".

 

 

 

Tell me, how can all the moral outcry against terrorism mean anything in the face of what you propose we do?

[trapical]

I miss Ron Paul, such a good message he had back before Obama took the spotlight:

 

 

 

That aside, worrying that the government is too powerful and that innocent people could be mistaken for terrorists and tortured is an oxymoron. I mean seriously guys, the more powerful the government gets (which would be a bad thing, but stick with me for a second) the more sure they would be that innocent people are NOT terrorists. I mean seriously, if the government can track everyone's phone calls, etc, etc, big brother x 1000%, etc.... then innocent people wouldn't be tortured as terrorists since they could just say "Dude, check my email logs and my GPS location for the last 10 years, I'm innocent"

 

 

 

Let's get something strait:

 

-big government = bad

 

-torturing innocent people claiming they are terrorists = bad

 

-but big government does NOT equal everyday law abiding citizens citizens being taken away by the government.

[Howlin0001]

What if they're a suspected terrorist?

 

As much as a lot of people seem to believe, the government doesn't just pick people up off the street and say "I think you-- and you-- and you are terrorists. Come with us." When someone is suspected of terrorism, it's for a good reason.

 

It's not necessarily a good reason if XYZ person was suspected of being a terrorist though. They could of done it and bet a confession out of a person, so to show the public they are doing something about it.

[Dalcyte]

Well, then, enjoy your lack of freedom and justice.

 

 

 

Are you trying to make general offensive ignorant statements?

 

The average American will not feel any pressure due to this at all. There is no way that our freedom and justice is going to totally evaporate. Sometimes, you need to have trust in the government. Government messes up a lot, this is true. They do things that are far too overreaching. But occasionally, you HAVE to put a little blind faith in them to protect you. People want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to not die via terrorist attacks, but they don't want the government to do what it needs to do to ensure that. Think about this. I'm not agreeing with the Japanese Internment during WWII, but look at this. Everyone who was in the inner circle of people who had access to the MAGIC machine was for Internment, while everyone else below that circle opposed it. The government has acccess, it has intelligence and knowledge of things we simply can't know due to National Security, and you just have to recognize and believe that. You can't ask for protection from terrorism and yell at the government for protecting you at the same time.

 

 

 

There are lines that have to be drawn at some points, but people...Americans have grown far too spoiled. They expect too much.

[magekillr]

Everyone cracks under torture. No exceptions.

 

 

 

If by crack you mean tell whatever you want to hear, then yes, they 'crack.'

 

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Jan11.html

 

 

 

http://www.alternet.org/rights/28585/

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/26 ... 60427.html

 

 

 

What if you were the one that was tortured innocently? That's why you don't have empathy, you don't put yourself in that situation.

[magekillr]

I miss Ron Paul, such a good message he had back before Obama took the spotlight:

 

 

 

 

I don't miss Ron Paul. He's a hypocrite on every issue from earmarks to government spending to "rights and freedom." He's a homophobic bigot that favors federal intervention if it goes against his views, such as with abortion and gay marriage. He's a "doctor" that denies evolution and supports teaching creationism. He also gets to have his cake and eat it too by voting against spending, but including earmarks for his district.

 

 

 

Second, I am NOT worried about the government "taking random people off the street" and such. I want my 4th amendment protection back, and if the President cannot do that then we essentially have no 4th amendment. It's not a matter of fear, but a matter of principle and freedom.

 

 

 

Why is everyone so [bleep]ing apathetic about their freedom? I don't care about the government "being big," so long as my freedoms are protected. I want the government to be as large as possible economically and provide health care, transportation, roads, welfare and education. However, when it comes to privacy and what I choose to do to my own body, I want them to [bleep] off.

 

 

 

That's what really upsets me about conservatives. When it comes to their money they flip [cabbage], but when it comes to their freedom...they're completely complacent. "Oh, spy on me all you want and grant telecom immunity to private contractors, even though it's illegal, just let me be rich while I tell the poor to [bleep] themselves."

[l0l0lpur34]

What if they're a suspected terrorist?

 

As much as a lot of people seem to believe, the government doesn't just pick people up off the street and say "I think you-- and you-- and you are terrorists. Come with us." When someone is suspected of terrorism, it's for a good reason.

 

 

 

Would you torture then?

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

 

What if they're actually innocent?

 

Oops.

 

"oops"? thankyou for confirming you are an immature prepubescent kid who thinks it's a funny to torture people based on that they might be a "terrorist".

[Nowayout59]

just let me be rich while I tell the poor to [bleep] themselves.

 

 

 

Poor go [bleep] yourself

 

 

 

Its called a capitalist society for a reason. People who are poor generals screwed up somewhere and they have to live with that. Why should I have to work for someone else to have health care. They want good health care? They can work. If they don't want to be "poor" enroll in the Armed Forces, they will take care of you.

 

 

 

And for those of you who are undoubtedly going to say, "You need money to go to college and to make lots of money you need a good education."

 

My step dad has never spent a single day in college, and makes more than $200,000 a year. He has had no further education that high school.

[l0l0lpur34]

just let me be rich while I tell the poor to [bleep] themselves.

 

 

 

Poor go [bleep] yourself

 

 

 

Its called a capitalist society for a reason. People who are poor generals screwed up somewhere and they have to live with that. Why should I have to work for someone else to have health care. They want good health care? They can work. If they don't want to be "poor" enroll in the Armed Forces, they will take care of you.

 

 

 

And for those of you who are undoubtedly going to say, "You need money to go to college and to make lots of money you need a good education."

 

My step dad has never spent a single day in college, and makes more than $200,000 a year. He has had no further education that high school.

 

have you ever worked a day in your life? or is everything you own given to you by your parents?

[Robert_de_Sable]

What if they're a suspected terrorist?

 

As much as a lot of people seem to believe, the government doesn't just pick people up off the street and say "I think you-- and you-- and you are terrorists. Come with us." When someone is suspected of terrorism, it's for a good reason.

 

 

 

Would you torture then?

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

 

What if they're actually innocent?

 

Oops.

 

"oops"? thankyou for confirming you are an immature prepubescent kid who thinks it's a funny to torture people based on that they might be a "terrorist".

 

Well, what the [bleep] do you want me to say? Mistakes happen, you idiot. I'd rather kill a hundred innocent people than let a thousand die at the hands of terrorism.

[Nowayout59]

Yes I work, I work all the freaking time. Half the stuff I buy I buy with my own money, the only real time I get stuff bought for me is my birthday, Christmas, and when its something like a suit for school or school supplies like pencils.

[____]

Well, what the [bleep] do you want me to say? Mistakes happen, you idiot. I'd rather kill a hundred innocent people than let a thousand die at the hands of terrorism.

 

Where does it stop tho? at 100? How about a thousand, a couple of thousand? Is this 100 per day or year, century? Is it the greater good or just 'making sure'?

[Robert_de_Sable]

There's no "hard limit."

 

You're taking this far too literally.

[Kenshinjapan]

Well, then, enjoy your lack of freedom and justice.

 

Australia isn't exactly the apex of freedom either.

 

 

 

Ausfalia has been censoring video games since the mid 90s. Conroy also wants to bring in a ridiculous mandatory nationwide filter.

 

 

 

So actually, shadow is right.

 

 

 

Both America, Australia, and the UK are authoritarian and are becoming increasingly totalitarian with their constant interventions in areas in which government should never have any input whatsoever.

 

 

 

Can't we just agree that government sucks no matter where you live? :lol:

[Nowayout59]

I have a better idea, lets just agree to disagree?

[Laura]

I view it in a similar manner as to what went on at the various Army bases I lived at. Every one at of ten cars were searched, even those with military ID. Was it an "invasion" of privacy? Maybe. Was it embarrassing? Most certainly, considering the state of my car. Can it be abused? Certainly. But I feel it's necessary, regardless of whether or not a terrorist is actually caught. There's no way there are enough agents to cover every phone call, so I don't see the true concern provided there is some sort of supervision over this.

[magekillr]

"If you've not done anything wrong, you dont have anything to hide!"

 

 

 

Yeah, right:

 

 

 

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/ ... /protests/

 

 

 

Excerpts that I liked:

 

 

 

The Right's leading political philosopher and intellectual historian, Jonah Goldberg, invokes fellow right-wing giant Ronald Reagan and says: "Here we go Again," protesting that "this seems so nakedly ideological." Michelle Malkin, who spent the last eight years cheering on every domestic surveillance and police state program she could find, announces that it's "Confirmed: The Obama DHS hit job on conservatives is real!" Lead-War-on-Terror-cheerleader Glenn Reynolds warns that DHS -- as a result of this report (but not, apparently, anything that happened over the last eight years) -- now considers the Constitution to be a "subversive manifesto." Super Tough Guy Civilization-Warrior Mark Steyn has already concocted an elaborate, detailed martyr fantasy in which his house is surrounded by Obama-dispatched, bomb-wielding federal agents. Malkin's Hot Air stomps its feet about all "the smears listed in the new DHS warning about 'right-wing extremism.'"

 

 

 

And

 

 

 

Indeed, thanks to the very people who are today petulantly complaining about politically-motivated federal police actions (now that they imagine it's directed at them rather than at people they dislike), the Federal Government today has the power to eavesdrop on telephone calls and read the emails of American citizens without warrants; monitor bank records without court approval; obtain all sorts of invasive personal records, medical and financial, without Subpoenas; and obtain and store a whole host of other personal information about American citizens who have not been accused, let alone convicted, of having done anything wrong. Also thanks to them (and things like the War on Terror, the War on Drugs, the Patriot Act, the FISA Amendments Act, etc. etc), most of this is carried out without any real oversight or safeguards, left entirely to the judgment and good faith of federal officials to wield these powers carefully and for proper ends. And, better still, federal officials can hide behind sweeping claims of secrecy and National Security to prevent courts from scrutinizing what they did and determine if it was illegal (we call that "the state secrets privilege").

 

 

 

So what's the problem? As the National Review/Bush-following-Right has been telling us for years now, there's nothing to worry about if you've done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide. The first duty of the Government is to protect us all -- keep us safe and warm from all the scary things out there, like a Good Daddy does -- and if they need to trample on some lofty privacy ideals and so-called civil liberties concerns and supposed Constitutional safeguards, well: that's just how it is. It takes a real paranoid hysteric to think that federal government officials have nothing better to do than target domestic political opponents. And besides, what good is the Constitution if we're all dead at the hands of domestic McVeigh-like Terrorists? After all, the Constitution isn't a suicide pact.

 

 

 

Best of all, Brendan Calling:

 

 

 

Personally, I believe that threat is real. However, times have changed.

 

 

 

Thanks to the efforts of conservatives and wingnuts over the past 8 years, Obama has the power to lock you up forever, with no charges. We tried to warn you.

 

 

 

Thanks to the efforts of conservatives and wingnuts over the past 8 years, Obama has the power to tap your phones without a warrant. We tried to warn you.

 

 

 

Thanks to the efforts of conservatives and wingnuts over the past 8 years, Obama has the power to have you waterboarded if he wants to. We tried to warn you.

 

 

 

Over and over we tried to warn you. Bush will not be president forever. The Republicans will not have a permanent majority. Do you really want Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton empowered to lock you up with no recourse to the judicial system?

 

 

 

You made your bed, and now you can lie in it. Oh, and how does it feel to know that YOURE being watched now? Honestly, if you havent done anything wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of.

 

 

 

http://brendancalling.com/2009/04/14/mo ... ry-bright/

[Robert_de_Sable]

Personally, I believe that threat is real. However, times have changed.

 

 

 

Thanks to the efforts of conservatives and wingnuts over the past 8 years, Obama has the power to lock you up forever, with no charges. We tried to warn you.

 

 

 

Thanks to the efforts of conservatives and wingnuts over the past 8 years, Obama has the power to tap your phones without a warrant. We tried to warn you.

 

 

 

Thanks to the efforts of conservatives and wingnuts over the past 8 years, Obama has the power to have you waterboarded if he wants to. We tried to warn you.

 

 

 

Over and over we tried to warn you. Bush will not be president forever. The Republicans will not have a permanent majority. Do you really want Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton empowered to lock you up with no recourse to the judicial system?

 

 

 

You made your bed, and now you can lie in it. Oh, and how does it feel to know that YOURE being watched now? Honestly, if you havent done anything wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of.

 

Bolded the statement that is obviously correct. Why do you care if the government is watching you? As long as you've done nothing wrong, what on earth could they do with that information?

[l0l0lpur34]

Personally, I believe that threat is real. However, times have changed.

 

 

 

Thanks to the efforts of conservatives and wingnuts over the past 8 years, Obama has the power to lock you up forever, with no charges. We tried to warn you.

 

 

 

Thanks to the efforts of conservatives and wingnuts over the past 8 years, Obama has the power to tap your phones without a warrant. We tried to warn you.

 

 

 

Thanks to the efforts of conservatives and wingnuts over the past 8 years, Obama has the power to have you waterboarded if he wants to. We tried to warn you.

 

 

 

Over and over we tried to warn you. Bush will not be president forever. The Republicans will not have a permanent majority. Do you really want Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton empowered to lock you up with no recourse to the judicial system?

 

 

 

You made your bed, and now you can lie in it. Oh, and how does it feel to know that YOURE being watched now? Honestly, if you havent done anything wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of.

 

Bolded the statement that is obviously correct. Why do you care if the government is watching you? As long as you've done nothing wrong, what on earth could they do with that information?

 

why does the government need to watch me if I'm doing nothing wrong? sounds like you want a police state where everyone is guilty until proven innocent

[magekillr]

Personally, I believe that threat is real. However, times have changed.

 

 

 

Thanks to the efforts of conservatives and wingnuts over the past 8 years, Obama has the power to lock you up forever, with no charges. We tried to warn you.

 

 

 

Thanks to the efforts of conservatives and wingnuts over the past 8 years, Obama has the power to tap your phones without a warrant. We tried to warn you.

 

 

 

Thanks to the efforts of conservatives and wingnuts over the past 8 years, Obama has the power to have you waterboarded if he wants to. We tried to warn you.

 

 

 

Over and over we tried to warn you. Bush will not be president forever. The Republicans will not have a permanent majority. Do you really want Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton empowered to lock you up with no recourse to the judicial system?

 

 

 

You made your bed, and now you can lie in it. Oh, and how does it feel to know that YOURE being watched now? Honestly, if you havent done anything wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of.

 

Bolded the statement that is obviously correct. Why do you care if the government is watching you? As long as you've done nothing wrong, what on earth could they do with that information?

 

 

 

Lol, the author was being facetious because these asshats are suddenly upset over the Department of Homeland Security releasing statements to local authorities to keep an eye on right wing extremists, when they cheered Bush on for doing the same thing to the other side.

[mmmcannibalism]

I love irony

 

 

 

Obama won in part by opposing torture, wiretapping and such

 

 

 

Now that he has power its necessary for our security

 

 

 

I am sure glad he isnt going back on any campaign promises

 

 

 

I love irony

 

 

 

edit--this is not a poem

[Robert_de_Sable]

Jerusalem belongs to Israel. It's their land and no one else's.

 

I bet you can't even find Israel on a map

 

Oh, please. Don't even bother with this crap, you gormless half-wit.

[Deathmath]

Well, then, enjoy your lack of freedom and justice.

 

Australia isn't exactly the apex of freedom either.

 

 

 

Ausfalia has been censoring video games since the mid 90s. Conroy also wants to bring in a ridiculous mandatory nationwide filter.

 

 

 

So actually, shadow is right.

 

 

 

Both America, Australia, and the UK are authoritarian and are becoming increasingly totalitarian with their constant interventions in areas in which government should never have any input whatsoever.

 

 

 

Unfortunately although I'd rather live in the UK.