Edit: New questions about efficient (cheap) skilling

[LinkOlaran]

Okay, so I'm a little new to the whole forum thing, so bear with me if I somehow mess up this post.

 

 

 

Anyway, my first question is about training strength. From a large majority of topics I've seen on here, the three main methods of training strength are the following:

 

 

 

1 - Whip + Rune Defender on Controlled

 

2 - Dragon Scimitar + Rune Defender on Aggressive

 

3 - Saradomin Sword on Aggressive

 

 

 

However, my own personal choice is this:

 

 

 

4 - Toktz-xil-ak (Obsidian Sword) + Berserker Necklace on Aggressive

 

 

 

Now, I realize that the Saradomin Sword will, no doubt, give higher exp/hour, but... it's what, like 6 mill? The Obsidian Sword is 105k, the Berserker Necklace is 147k. I believe it is a very cheap alternative that, at least in my case, produces similar exp gains per hour as the whip would when you're training attack or defence (for training on moss giants, I get about 60k exp/hour with the whip, and about 58k exp/hour with the obsidian sword). My question is: are there any other (cheap) alternatives to use in place of any of the above for strength training? And, since the obsidian sword can produce decent results (particularly for lower budget players), why don't I see it being used? I realize that the berserker necklace drains your attack and defence (making you hit less often and get hit more often), but the effect is so small I hardly even notice it (keep in mind my attack is 79 and defence is 76, and I tend to use super attack pots/mixes with a dragon battle axe to do my melee training).

 

 

 

(sorry for the wall of text up there, lol)

 

 

 

 

 

My second question is about MouseKeys. I know exactly how to turn them on and how to use them (many thanks to Wakka's guide on MouseKeys for that), but, I still have one question. Are they legal to use on Runescape? It just seems a little too close to macroing, to me...

 

 

 

 

 

My third, and final question is about smithing. Right now, I'm smelting mithril in Edgeville. I plan to smith these bars into throwing knives for my own personal use (i.e training ranged) so I can get some use out of them. My question is: is there any better thing that I could be smelting/smithing that produces a minimal loss? Keep in mind that I just dumped 3.1 mill into buying the mithril and coal, so I don't have any cash to spare (although I could bail out when I've finished smelting everything and probably turn a profit - probably putting me at 3.2 mill or higher). Also note that I'm trying to get 73 smithing (currently at 67).

 

 

 

Well, that's all I have to ask for now. My thanks if you reply to this. I'll be on world 99 smelting in Edgeville if you want to talk to me. Private messaging is on, as usual.

 

 

 

Edit: Old questions have been answered, my new questions are on the second page of this topic.

[aspeeder]

Just as an answer about the str, the reason people dont use obby swords is that with the zerker it produces similar stats to a dragon scimmy with rune def, and that setup combined with a fury is overall better. Plus then if you get a cave horror task you're SoL, but i guess its all just personal preference.

[LinkOlaran]

That's a fair enough response. Yes, I do agree, but there are still two (small) problems with using the dragon scimitar:

 

 

 

1 - It requires Monkey Madness to complete. I personally had a heck of a time completing it back when I first got members, so some may not want to complete it just because of it's difficulty (or because they don't like questing)

 

 

 

2 - Dragon Scimitar + Rune Defender with a Fury amulet will have the same max hit as the Obsidian sword (for me that would be 29), but the Fury amulet is crazy expensive (it may be down to like 1.9 mill or something like that, but that's still too expensive for a poor bugger like me).

 

 

 

Other than those two points, I can definitely see the scimitar as a slightly better alternative to the Obsidian sword.

 

 

 

Also, I fail at slayer (58 slayer), and I have never fought Cave Horrors before. I did, however, just go and do a little bit of research on them. Using the dragon scimitar would definitely be better (max hit of scimitar being 26, obsidian sword being 22 for me). Of course, on a slayer task, I'd be using the best weapon I've got (whip, for instance, training attack or defence) so I can complete it faster. Honestly, my obsidian sword and berserker necklace never get used in any situation other than training strength at moss giants - unless, of course, I get yet another stupid level 3 clue coordinates leading into the wild. Then, I'll probably take the cheap route so I don't risk my whip. Yes, I am that paranoid, lol.

 

 

 

Thanks for responding, by the way.

[aspeeder]

No problem (Also, I'm unsure how compatable slayer helm's bonuses are with zerker necklace, might be another reason), for the other two questions: Mouse Keys are completely legal as they are a program built into windows, and with the profits from mith knifes you could buy some broad bolts and go kill aviantese or buy more iron knifes and go to yaks for some less dangerous exp.

[Ezkaton]

1. No i don't think there are any more..... however you seem to have found a combo that works for your method of training. However i would sincerely advise you do slayer even though you "suck" at level 58 in your opinion; just stick to it if you like killing stuff and you'll see your cb fly up and your cash pile too ;) through personal experience through slayer i have managed to get enough money for zerker ring, whip, fury, food, everything you could need...... trust me stick to it and it's worth it.

 

 

 

2. I have no idea about mouse keys; sorry.

 

 

 

3. Smithing can either produce a heavy loss or a minimal one: i have 4 methods that produce minimal loss/maybe profit.

 

 

 

(i) Iron ores into bars with rings of forging then smith the iron bars into knives - cheaper than mith also many people use them more..... so if you're going to be using knives save yourself a whole lot of your cashpile and make these. otherwise last time i checked; you can profit from it by selling the knives.

 

(ii) Cannonball - if you like AFK-able skills like wc, fishing etc then cannonballs are the thing for you. These make a great profit :P

 

(iii) Superheating - not profitable but produces minimal loss even if you buy the ore, coal and nats. Last time i calced you'll make 20gp loss from mithril by doing this (make sure you have a fire staff) and again last time i calced you'll make 1gp loss per addy bar you make by doing this.

 

(iv) Smelting - normally profits. All you need to do is want to smith alot..... back when i was f2p a few months ago i'd buy the ores and coal off ge at about 500 or so at a time and smith the mith bars in alkahrid (however seeing as you're memb stick to edge or port phas) and i made about 200gp per bar made (it funded my prayer addiction back then)

 

 

 

Hope i helped a lil :thumbup:

[LinkOlaran]

To aspeeder:

 

 

 

Thanks for responding so quickly. At least now I can use MouseKeys now. Should speed up my mining quite a bit.

 

 

 

And, about the aviansies and yaks - both areas tend to be really crowded (I've experienced the crowds at aviansies first-hand, yaks I've heard were fairly crowded), plus I prefer getting decent loot to pay for ranging pots and broad bolts (and seeds for farming). I can get about 45k exp/hour ranging at moss giants, too, so I'll probably just stick to them.

 

 

 

I'll probably end up just smelting the remainder of the bars (eventually, since I got bored and wandered back to melee training at moss giants again...) and sell the bars on the exchange.

 

 

 

 

 

To Ezkaton:

 

 

 

Yes, I am trying (on occasion) to train my slayer, although I tend to get bored really, really easily so I usually end up stopping after a couple tasks and doing something else. I want to get it to 75, eventually...

 

 

 

I know what you mean by buying ores and smelting bars for profit on f2p - it's the only method I used for gaining money back then, lol. Superheating sounds like a good alternative to smelting it the normal way, plus I get magic experience as well. I honestly didn't know that you could make a profit off of making cannonballs, though.

 

 

 

Anyway, thanks for responding. I'd better get back to getting 80 attack (less than an hour to go...).

[Ezkaton]

Unless you get stuck on a loop slayer doesn't get boring.... however if it does make sure you mix it up spend a few days killing things for fun like fire giants or green dragons.... you'll soon see how slayer makes your killing more constructive. but always make sure you take breaks from it :

 

 

 

and aye cballs are perhaps the most profitable thing you can smith.

[Sir_Kurity]

Monkey madness isnt to hard.

 

 

 

Ive tried obby sword, haven't tested anything, but i seemed to have 1 less max hit than if i just used a glory ammy with scim.

[LinkOlaran]

To Est0rrath:

 

 

 

I agree, Monkey Madness isn't that difficult - so long as you know what you're doing. It's was quite difficult back when I did it, but I didn't prepare myself properly, and I had noob combat levels back then.

 

 

 

As for comparing the max hit of the obsidian sword to the dragon scimitar:

 

 

 

Dragon Scimitar:

 

Using Amulet of Glory, Helm of Neitiznot, Obsidian Shield, Berserker Ring, Barrows Gloves and Dragon Boots, with 80 strength and Dragon Battleaxe special, my max hit is 29.

 

 

 

Obsidian Sword:

 

Using Berserker Necklace, Helm of Neitiznot, Obsidian Shield, Berserker Ring, Barrows Gloves and Dragon Boots, with 80 strength and Dragon Battleaxe special, my max hit is, again, 29.

 

 

 

Abyssal Whip:

 

Using the same setup as with the Dragon Scimitar, with 80 strength and Dragon Battleaxe special, my max hit is 31.

 

 

 

I used the Rune Tips Max Hit calc to find out these numbers, by the way. So, the obsidian sword can be used in place of the dragon scimitar - so long as you use the berserker necklace. Of course, max hit says nothing about accuracy, but that's what super attack potions are for, right?

 

 

 

Anyway, thanks for responding.

[sadukar123]

Or training on something that attack is negligible. Aka Yaks.

[LinkOlaran]

To sadukar123:

 

 

 

First off, thanks for responding. I personally won't train on yaks due to two reasons - one, they're (supposedly) very crowded, and two, they don't have any good drops. I would rather earn a profit and slightly lower exp/hour than just pure experience. Hence, I'm training on moss giants.

 

 

 

 

 

Now, I think I have all the information that I need, but, of course, now I have a new question. I am thinking about making a guide detailing the training spot that I am currently using, but I need pictures. Of course, I'll get the pictures myself, but I recall reading (on these forums somewhere I believe, but I can't find it again) about a program that will automatically create and save an image file of what's currently on your screen when you press the PrintScreen button. If anyone knows of such a program, it would be really helpful if you could provide a link to it. Also note it needs to be a free to use program, and preferably a small download (I'm on dialup, unfortunately) - I am willing to download larger files if needed, though. Many thanks for your help.

 

 

 

Well, I'd better get back to training. Pm me if you want.

[Kimberly]

From searching the RSOF (just to be sure! ^^) I found several threads about mousekeys. Several users have responded saying they AREN'T against the rules; however, none of those users were Forum/Player/Jagex mods. Should be okay but use at your own risk until you get a more concrete answer.

 

 

 

As for screencap programs, I know that Swiftkit has that feature. There are other programs that do that as well, but I don't know them by name. Sorry :(

[LinkOlaran]

Thanks for responding so quickly, Lady Ninane. I probably won't be mining or woodcutting anytime soon, so I probably won't be using MouseKeys anytime soon.

 

 

 

As for Swiftkit, I didn't even know such a program existed for Runescape, let alone be legal to use (I always thought third party programs were against the rules). I'm downloading it right now, so hopefully it'll work (and not bog down my piece of junk computer any more than it already is, lol)

 

 

 

Again, thanks for responding. Hopefully, with Swiftkit, I can get that training guide started (assuming I don't get lazy and not do it/forget about it, lol).

[Aslan]

Mousekeys are legal.I remember reading a post from a mod about this particular topic.Mousekeys are accepted because there are certain people that cannot hold the mouse properly so they resort to mousekeys.

[LinkOlaran]

Thanks for responding, Aslan. Truth be told, I won't be using MouseKeys for a while (mainly because I really, really don't want to train mining or woodcutting right now), but I will keep what you (and everyone else who responded) said in mind.

 

 

 

 

 

Now, I've downloaded the Swiftkit program, and I've been using it for the past two hours now (11.6mb of runescape pictures already, lol). I must say, I am really impressed by how useful it is. I am about to start writing my guide now (although I have to crop and upload the pictures first). I would assume that, were I to finish a basic version of my guide, I'd post it in the beginning guides sub-forum first, correct?

 

 

 

Other than that, I don't have any other questions in mind at the moment. Thanks to everyone who responded so far.

[Aslan]

Yes, post the draft version in the beginner's section.After the guide is completed report it using (!) and ask a mod (in the report) to move it in the general section.There are faster ways to mine/wc.Getting 1-2 ores/logs, dropping them very fast then clicking on the rock/tree again.

[Sinkhan]

So you have a dump load of coal and mithril, eh? Sounds like the perfect set up for the blast furnace on World 58!

 

 

 

Read up on the RSKB guide as well as the Tip.it Guide to get a feel for how it works.

 

 

 

This is what I bring and how I personally do it:

 

 

 

Setup

 

-126GP for every mithril ore you intend on smithing, but I'd bring a little more just to be safe

 

-A 1:2 ratio of mithril to coal all in noted form

 

-Varrock Armour (Get one if you don't - it's super useful for things other than smithing!)

 

-1-2 SC Hammers

 

 

 

1. Load up 200 coal into the furnace by unnoting the coal on Ordan (Use Notes->Ordan).

 

 

 

2. Load up 20 mithril.

 

 

 

3. Get a bucket and fill it with water

 

 

 

4. Work one of the jobs for awhile until your bars come out. Once they have, unnote another 20 mithril ore and put them onto the conveyor belt. Immediately go and grab your bars, using the water if needed. If you used the water, refill it.

 

 

 

5. Go smith your bars.

 

 

 

6. By the time you're done smithing your bars, the mithril you already put in should have already been processed by others working the furnace (Yes, lots of people dislike you for not helping to run the furnace constantly, but that's irrelevant :roll: ). Unnote again, put on the conveyor, take bars. Rinse and repeat.

 

 

 

The obvious advantage to using the blast furnace is the halved coal. I make roughly 200GP per bar by making bolts and then flighting them.

[LinkOlaran]

To Aslan:

 

 

 

Thanks for responding again. Yeah, I'm working on the guide right now. It'll probably take another hour or two before I'm done, though.

 

 

 

As for the mining/woodcutting trick, I've heard of it before, but I highly doubt my junky computer can deal with such fast movements, lol.

 

 

 

 

 

To Sinkhan:

 

 

 

I've solo'ed the Blast Furnace before, actually. It's been a while since I've been there, so I might try going there and trying to make the rest of the bars (I've sold off 1.2k bars so I could test out the cannon, and I've got... around 2.2k mithril ore left, I think). I didn't know you could make a profit off of making and flighting mithril bolts though.

 

 

 

Thanks for the tips, everyone. I'd better get back to writing that guide, though.

[ladycai]

My knowledge is limited, so I can only answer your first question:

 

 

 

Do NOT train controlled unless you don't plan to become a melee PKer. It WILL RUIN YOU. That's how I messed my stats up with 80 def. HOWEVER, if you do decide to do some boss hunting, and major bosses such as GWD or Corp Beast, then train controlled with a whip.

 

 

 

My personal favorite is the dragon scim + defender. The other choice provides less accuracy if I remember correctly.

[LinkOlaran]

To ladycai:

 

 

 

No, I don't plan on pking. Actually, I'm one of the few people (that I know of, anyway) that's completely against it. I've only ever killed one other person in the wild way back when, and any other pvp combat that I used to do was fighting against my friends in the duel arena. Back to the subject at hand, I doubt I'd train on controlled anyway - I tend to be really impatient, so if I trained on controlled, sure, I'd get three levels within like 2 minutes of each other, but I doubt I could sit there long enough to actually get that far. So, I'll stick to my usual method of switching between whip and obsidian sword when needed.

 

 

 

Yes, the obsidian sword lowers accuracy and defence, but not directly - rather, the berserker necklace that you need to wear to make the obsidian sword (and any other obsidian weapon) 20% stronger (making it's max hit equal to the dragon scimitar) is what drains attack and defence bonuses, making you hit less often and take damage more often. But, again, when you're fighting against something as weak as a moss giant, a small drop in accuracy is hardly noticeable - the drop in defence is, however, which is why I have an obsidian shield.

 

 

 

Sorry for the big block of text, by the way. And thanks for responding.

[Sinkhan]

To Aslan:

 

To Sinkhan:

 

 

 

I've solo'ed the Blast Furnace before, actually. It's been a while since I've been there, so I might try going there and trying to make the rest of the bars (I've sold off 1.2k bars so I could test out the cannon, and I've got... around 2.2k mithril ore left, I think). I didn't know you could make a profit off of making and flighting mithril bolts though.

 

 

 

Thanks for the tips, everyone. I'd better get back to writing that guide, though.

 

 

 

Well obviously the themed world is going to have more people running it. I've managed to go a full 500 bars of mithril without having to work on the furnace for more than 5 mins.

 

 

 

But if my math is correct:

 

 

 

174 x 2 = 348 (Coal)

 

217 (Mithril)

 

3GP (Feather)

 

Cost: 568 GP

 

 

 

10 x 76 GP (Bolts) = 760 GP

 

 

 

I suggest you put some of your workers in MTK on coal to increase your profit margins. That's at least what I do.

[LinkOlaran]

To Sinkhan:

 

 

 

Your math is correct, other than the fact that you left out the un-noting costs, lol. When you add in the un-noting costs, it puts the cost and profit right around the same, so you'll pretty much break even (or earn/lose 2-3 gold). I don't know if I'll flight the mithril bolts or not, though. I don't really need the fletching exp. It depends on how many feathers I'll need per bolt (if it's only one per bolt, then it might be worth doing). Of course, since I now have over 4k mithril bars to smelt and smith, it might take a while...

 

 

 

Again, thanks for responding.

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

 

 

I've got a bunch of new questions, lol. Since I've got about three months of members left (I'm probably going to buy another year's worth anyway, but that's not the point of this post), I've decided to attempt to make the most of the time that I've got left (assuming I don't get lazy/forget about it). I decided to make a to-do list a week or so ago so I know what exactly I'll need to level:

 

 

 

Skills: Current New

 

 

 

Defence---------- 76 ----------------- 80

 

Hitpoints--------- 81 ----------------- 82

 

Ranged----------- 76 ----------------- 80

 

Prayer----------- 63 ------------------ 70

 

Summoning-------- 58 ---------------- 60

 

 

 

Woodcutting----- 71 ----------------- 77

 

Fishing---------- 72 ------------------ 76

 

Firemaking------- 66 ------------------ 75

 

Crafting--------- 68 ------------------ 74

 

Smithing--------- 68 ----------------- 73

 

Herblore--------- 60 ----------------- 65

 

Thieving--------- 61 ----------------- 84

 

Slayer----------- 58 ----------------- 75

 

Farming---------- 51 ----------------- 70

 

Runecraft-------- 50 ----------------- 66

 

Hunter----------- 66 ----------------- 70

 

Construction----- 53 ----------------- 60

 

 

 

As you can see, I have a lot of work to do. My question is: what order should I be working on these in? I've sorta been going back and forth between a number of different skills (focusing more on my combat skills than anything else). I'm trying to do everything in a fairly logical order (combat and slayer training before summoning so I can use all the charms at once, for instance).

 

I have a number of methods for training each of the skills in mind already, which I'll list now:

 

 

 

Defence, Hitpoints, Ranged - Moss giants (the same ones I described in my guide) - approx 60k exp/hour for defence, 20k exp/hour for hitpoints, and 45k exp/hour for ranged. I'm also unwilling to range aviansies, by the way.

 

 

 

 

 

Summoning - I probably have enough golds to get me to around 65 alone, lol. After I'm done with moss giants and slayer, I'll probably have too many to use without going insane first.

 

 

 

 

 

Prayer - Dragon bones at Ectofuntus, since I don't have access to a gilded altar (I wouldn't know how to use a gilded altar even if I had one, lol). I'll have to level a money making skill first (fishing, for example) to pay for the dragon bones.

 

 

 

 

 

Woodcutting - Probably cut and drop teaks at Tai Bwo Wannai village (probably using MouseKeys to speed things up).

 

 

 

 

 

Fishing - Not a clue, but I have done heavy rod fishing (cutting apart catches for roe and caviar, banking the caviar on occasion). I'm unwilling to do fly fishing at Shilo Village (I did plenty of fly fishing on f2p, thanks). I might do monkfish after I get near my goal if I require a bit of cash to pay for other skills.

 

 

 

 

 

Firemaking - Burning maples (have 34k maples banked from Manage Thy Kingdom) in Port Phasmatys.

 

 

 

 

 

Crafting - Another one that I don't have a strategy in mind for. Any help would be appreciated. A profitable solution would be preferred, but I doubt it's possible to profit, so I'll deal with a minimal loss.

 

 

 

 

 

Smithing - I've got 4k mithril ore left (8k coal as well) to use at the Blast Furnace and make unfinished mithril bolts.

 

 

 

 

 

Herblore - Possibly making harralander tar or making unfinished kwuarm potions (buy and clean kwuarm and adding to a vial of water).

 

 

 

 

 

Thieving - Pyramid Plunder, most definitely. I hate blackjacking, so I'll never try it again, even if it means taking a hit to exp/hour by using Pyramid Plunder instead.

 

 

 

 

 

Slayer - Using Chaeldar in Zanaris. Speaking of, I really need to finish that kalphite task...

 

 

 

 

 

Farming - Using every patch I have access to (or the ones I'm willing to go to), planting either the highest level crop I can, or a slightly cheaper alternative (curry trees instead of pineapples). I might do My Arm's Big Adventure and/or Mourning's End Part One for access to the patches in those locations. The crops I'm planting are watermelon (allotment), wildblood (hops), avantoe (herb), willow (tree), curry tree (fruit tree), jangerberry (bush), and evil turnip. I will be adding in other special crops and switching out others for higher level varieties once I can plant them.

 

 

 

 

 

Runecraft - Nature runes using a graahk familiar, banking at Castle Wars.

 

 

 

 

 

Hunter - Probably won't do, but in case if I do, I'll probably go for the highest salamander I can catch (orange, I believe). I will not, under any circumstances, go anywhere near those blasted red chinchompas (I hate hunting there more than any other activity in this game).

 

 

 

 

 

Construction - Making oak larders, but I haven't made a decision about how to get the planks to the house - either cut oak outside and have my demon butler plank them for me, or just by the planks off the exchange (using teleport to house and ring of dueling to bank, probably).

 

 

 

 

 

Keep in mind that I'm willing to change any of the strategies I've listed above for better alternatives.

 

 

 

Anyway, thanks everyone for responding so far. I really, really appreciate any help or advice you can give me on any of the goals I've set myself. And sorry for the massive wall of text.

[LinkOlaran]

Uh, bump? I'd really like a few suggestions for my skilling goals, please.

 

 

 

(My apologies if I should have waited longer before bumping the topic back onto the first page)

[Chaosxreigns]

Herblore - Possibly making harralander tar or making unfinished kwuarm potions (buy and clean kwuarm and adding to a vial of water).

 

 

 

Actually, making the unfinished potions don't give you any experience. It's adding the secondary to the potion that give it.

 

 

 

Anyway, I've been superheating mithril bars recently, and I've found it a great way to train smithing. Buying all of the materials, you only lose about 20 gold per bar. Since you've already got the ore, you'll make money! \

 

 

 

Possibly smith into mithril plates and alch if you'd like for even more smithing and magic exp, albeit less money.

[Inuashakent]

Go to green dragons to train combat, tan them, and make Bodies. Alch the bodies and use the bones on a gilded altar.

 

 

 

Whatever you do, don't go to Giants. They give very low xp, contrary to common belief. And don't train Summoning through golds, train through Crimsons. Barbarian fishing is by far better than Monkfish, but Monkfish is extremely easy to do... take your pick. As for framing, don't waste your time with hops, bushes and evil turnips. Just use (fruit) trees, herbs, and optionally allotments. Use abyss, don't use Graahks.

 

 

 

And get Stealing creation hammers for Construction and Smithing.