Mining Sucks (round 2)

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Mining is not going to become another easy 99 to add to your harem. Sorry.

It just needs to be more reasonable, not easy. That's assuming you subscribe to "easy" and "hard" skills when everyone knows it's just mindless clicking.

 

To add on to this, the scope of the rant wasn't to make Mining easy, it was to make Mining purposeful again. Besides, what you call 'easy', I call 'tedious'. If you really thought about it, every skill in RS is 'easy' - it just depends on how much time you have to plunk into the skill.

 

 

 

I do not think that multiple ores/rock would make sense.

 

 

 

Lets look at it realistically, there is a huge tree, you get multiple logs.

 

 

 

You throw a harpoon into a space of water, you're bound to hit more than one fish.

 

 

 

BUT...

 

 

 

Mining is different, each rock is one opening to a larger deposit below, and that's why with the exception of rune ore there is more than one rock type per "mine".

 

 

 

You're probably right, looking at it from a realistic sense. But, then again, if we look at anything else from a realistic sense, we're going to make most, if not all of our skills exponentially harder. I think there's some wiggle room with that.

 

 

 

There's also the anomaly of multiple ore deposits in the same rock, which is a principle that iron miners have used since the early ages. If they know that this rock contains some ore, then they'll just keep mining it until they either have too many (useless) rocks, or enough of the ore for them to refine.

 

 

 

The third point about powermining... powermining is just like camping at bandits or w/e it's just for the experience. This brings me back to the first point... in real life, there are trees around a bank/town, but a huge mine would most likely be underground/outside of town, making ore banking kind of a ridiculous prospect.

 

 

 

Again, what I said was that "the possibility of power-leveling exists". This is actually true for most every skill, except Slayer. What I contend is that there is no other alternative to leveling Mining outside of power-leveling, which defeats the purpose of gathering ore in the first place.

 

 

 

I also see that you're looking at things in a literal, matter-of-fact sense. That's fine, but we're talking RS here - not everything has to be realistic or have realistic-like behaviors, namely this skill. I just don't see the point of dancing with Carpal Tunnel to get a 99 in a skill when you haven't mined a single Adamant ore a day in your life.

[Fools_Taco]

Peoples 3 biggest complaints about skills in runescape? Mining, Agility, Runecrafting. This is the year they said they were fixing things. They just did agility. Trust me im sure they will overhaul mining sometime. Just hold out on the skill for now.

 

 

 

The second they make it like fishing and woodcutting it will be my next cape. Fishing and woodcutting were nice easy afk capes to get. I got them first.

 

 

 

Im sure all the cookers, fishers and woodcutters were mad when they updated those skills. The miners will get over it someday, its called progress. Jagax has 0 care about the respect of capes.

[quelmotz]

Peoples 3 biggest complaints about skills in runescape? Mining, Agility, Runecrafting. This is the year they said they were fixing things. They just did agility. Trust me im sure they will overhaul mining sometime. Just hold out on the skill for now.

 

 

 

The second they make it like fishing and woodcutting it will be my next cape. Fishing and woodcutting were nice easy afk capes to get. I got them first.

 

 

 

Im sure all the cookers, fishers and woodcutters were mad when they updated those skills. The miners will get over it someday, its called progress. Jagax has 0 care about the respect of capes.

 

 

 

Well said =D>

 

 

 

Anyway, consider this a free bump.

[Sir_Kurity]

Minings allready a great money making skill.

 

 

 

And, because of oversupply of ores, it won't necessarily make it a better money making skill, infact to be honest, all it would really do in the long run is make smithing cheaper and easier, mining easier, and generally stuff things up.

 

That's not the scope of this rant. I don't much care if Mining becomes profitable or not, all I want is for Mining to have its dignity again.

 

 

 

True. Who wants a money-making skill that takes INCREDIBLY long periods of time of grinding away doing pointless training JUST to earn some money. They are much easier ways to earn money (for members), and for f2p, getting 85 mining just takes too long.

 

 

 

Give me some of these "much easier ways" which have more money making potential than mining, while at the same time don't require high skill requirements.

 

 

 

Also, look at what it would do. If you could get multiple rune ore per rock, rune prices would drop to all hell, as would any ore prices, etc etc.

[Bloodkay]

You make good points, Makoto. On lower leveled ores, I would love to see multiple ores per rock. Though I'm not sure if there's a shortage on lower level ores in the first place. For the three high level ores, level-depending, a few ores per rock would be okay, but I still say it would flood the market with ores no one would really use. Unless because of this, there's a huge rush of Smithing.

 

 

 

Anyways, I'm meh about this. I'm fine with it now, but wouldn't care or would welcome it if they changed it.

[Plugpoint]

just a thought on the multiple ores, maybe it could work like runecrafting to some extent. No idea on numbers but say by the time you get 85 mining you get 2 addy ores per rock.

 

That's a pretty good idea.

 

 

 

I think that you need some challenging skills in the game. I mean I know mining's boring but getting to say 70 mining feels more rewarding than 70 cooking. If every skill was easy the game would be boring, everyone would be good at everything and people would give up. It's nice to have a few more difficult skills in the game.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Minings allready a great money making skill.

 

 

 

And, because of oversupply of ores, it won't necessarily make it a better money making skill, infact to be honest, all it would really do in the long run is make smithing cheaper and easier, mining easier, and generally stuff things up.

 

That's not the scope of this rant. I don't much care if Mining becomes profitable or not, all I want is for Mining to have its dignity again.

 

 

 

True. Who wants a money-making skill that takes INCREDIBLY long periods of time of grinding away doing pointless training JUST to earn some money. They are much easier ways to earn money (for members), and for f2p, getting 85 mining just takes too long.

 

 

 

Give me some of these "much easier ways" which have more money making potential than mining, while at the same time don't require high skill requirements.

 

 

 

Also, look at what it would do. If you could get multiple rune ore per rock, rune prices would drop to all hell, as would any ore prices, etc etc.

 

I realize that this isn't directed at me, per se, but something that doesn't require high skill requirements, which has more money-making potential than Mining would be clue scrolls. Doesn't take much effort to get into Taverley dungeon with 50-60 range and camp until you get a level 3 scroll.

 

 

 

Again, I realize that prices would fall on ores, but it's still a good thing - if the prices for ores drop, then the demand will rise, meaning that the prices will rise to meet the demand.

 

 

 

You make good points, Makoto. On lower leveled ores, I would love to see multiple ores per rock. Though I'm not sure if there's a shortage on lower level ores in the first place. For the three high level ores, level-depending, a few ores per rock would be okay, but I still say it would flood the market with ores no one would really use. Unless because of this, there's a huge rush of Smithing.

 

 

 

Anyways, I'm meh about this. I'm fine with it now, but wouldn't care or would welcome it if they changed it.

 

 

 

That's just the idea - to give Smithing its feeder skill back. Of course, there's still a fair bit of work to be done on it.

 

 

 

I think that you need some challenging skills in the game. I mean I know mining's boring but getting to say 70 mining feels more rewarding than 70 cooking. If every skill was easy the game would be boring, everyone would be good at everything and people would give up. It's nice to have a few more difficult skills in the game.

 

 

 

There's a difference between 'challenging' and 'pointless'. Runecrafting is challenging; quite literally the slowest skill in the game to train, with optimal experience gains per day coming between 60K and 435K [RScript Tracker backs me up on this], and the runes you make are actually useful. Mining is pointless, since chances are, you're not using it to its fullest potential, and mining Mithril/Adamant for Smithing or to sell on the market is typically out of the question. Heck, if players sold off all of the Iron they powermined, then there wouldn't be all this talk about 'inflation'...

[Sir_Kurity]

 

I realize that this isn't directed at me, per se, but something that doesn't require high skill requirements, which has more money-making potential than Mining would be clue scrolls. Doesn't take much effort to get into Taverley dungeon with 50-60 range and camp until you get a level 3 scroll.

 

 

 

Again, I realize that prices would fall on ores, but it's still a good thing - if the prices for ores drop, then the demand will rise, meaning that the prices will rise to meet the demand.

 

 

 

Clue scrolls suck, the chances of getting third age is stupid beyond all else. Plus, a great deal of level 3 clue scrolls have annoying quest requirements.

 

 

 

Oh and, the demand may rise, but in the end, we have a million people trying to sell there rune armor, which just won't sell, and rune armor will drop.

 

 

 

I can imagine people in f2p PVP running around in full rune and still not risking 75k.

[mister_moocky]

I bank my iron ore...

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

 

I realize that this isn't directed at me, per se, but something that doesn't require high skill requirements, which has more money-making potential than Mining would be clue scrolls. Doesn't take much effort to get into Taverley dungeon with 50-60 range and camp until you get a level 3 scroll.

 

 

 

Again, I realize that prices would fall on ores, but it's still a good thing - if the prices for ores drop, then the demand will rise, meaning that the prices will rise to meet the demand.

 

 

 

Clue scrolls suck, the chances of getting third age is stupid beyond all else. Plus, a great deal of level 3 clue scrolls have annoying quest requirements.

 

 

 

Oh and, the demand may rise, but in the end, we have a million people trying to sell there rune armor, which just won't sell, and rune armor will drop.

 

 

 

I can imagine people in f2p PVP running around in full rune and still not risking 75k.

 

Again, I'm not taking this thread to another topic, but Clue scrolls don't require high skill requirements (and no, Quests don't require high skill requirements either, at least the ones you need to complete the level 3 scrolls), and they have more potential for higher gains of cash than 85 Mining does. That's what you asked, but again, we're not talking about that.

 

 

 

I'm starting to believe that you're clutching at straws here, and it seems like you have been since you started this up. How does demand for Rune ore rising equate to a run on Rune armor? Just because Rune ore gives you multiple ores per rock doesn't mean that Rune armor will fall, really - in fact, most players get their armor from NPCs or shops anyway. Next, the number of people that can make full Rune is still pretty small, so a major drop in that wouldn't happen until there were lots more.

 

 

 

For the last time, the scope of this rant is simply to give Mining back its dignity as a feeder skill to Smithing; right now it has none. I'm not concerned with the market or how stable it would be if Adamant/Mithril came back, all I want for Mining is to have a purpose again, okay?

 

 

 

Can we stick to that?

[quelmotz]

I bank my iron ore...

 

 

 

So what? Everything will have exceptions. :roll:

[Sir_Kurity]

Anyway, as much as it would be lovely to improve mining, the economic effects would suck [wagon].

[Plugpoint]

I think that you need some challenging skills in the game. I mean I know mining's boring but getting to say 70 mining feels more rewarding than 70 cooking. If every skill was easy the game would be boring, everyone would be good at everything and people would give up. It's nice to have a few more difficult skills in the game.

 

 

 

There's a difference between 'challenging' and 'pointless'. Runecrafting is challenging; quite literally the slowest skill in the game to train, with optimal experience gains per day coming between 60K and 435K [RScript Tracker backs me up on this], and the runes you make are actually useful. Mining is pointless, since chances are, you're not using it to its fullest potential, and mining Mithril/Adamant for Smithing or to sell on the market is typically out of the question. Heck, if players sold off all of the Iron they powermined, then there wouldn't be all this talk about 'inflation'...

 

The difference between challenging and pointless is your own opinion which depends on how you play the game.

[Zierro]

I completely agree with the first two points, but as for the last, I don't see a problem with grinding. Whether you train for money, skill/quest requirements, or for just achieving a level goal it's really all the same. You can't put an absolute value on those. You might see the quest requirement as more important than the other things, but someone else might feel that achieving the level goal is the more important one.

[1roddad1]

The purpose of mining was to be able to smith stuff. Back in the days of old you could make a lot of money smithing but now you can't. And because people really only smith for either quest requirements, to mine runite, or get the cape (Which usually is one of the last resource skills to obtain), no one really seems to care about mining. :shock: :|

 

 

 

But Jagex has already noticed this problem. If you complete the Varrock Diaries, your special armor allows you to mine more than one ore (just 2? FAILURE) up to Adamantite. I'd actually do the skill if it had some major updates. All I see in F2P is macros, and all I see in P2P is powerminers (Macros as well). :wall:

 

 

 

Jagex does need to update this skill. The only update its ever had was the rocks graphical update (for those who don't know, the rocks looked like what the ring of stone turns you into). I can't count Inferno Adze as an update since its only true use is woodcutting. Burn logs+Dragon Hatchet=win! Rune pickaxe=no. Fail. :wall:

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I think that you need some challenging skills in the game. I mean I know mining's boring but getting to say 70 mining feels more rewarding than 70 cooking. If every skill was easy the game would be boring, everyone would be good at everything and people would give up. It's nice to have a few more difficult skills in the game.

 

 

 

There's a difference between 'challenging' and 'pointless'. Runecrafting is challenging; quite literally the slowest skill in the game to train, with optimal experience gains per day coming between 60K and 435K [RScript Tracker backs me up on this], and the runes you make are actually useful. Mining is pointless, since chances are, you're not using it to its fullest potential, and mining Mithril/Adamant for Smithing or to sell on the market is typically out of the question. Heck, if players sold off all of the Iron they powermined, then there wouldn't be all this talk about 'inflation'...

 

The difference between challenging and pointless is your own opinion which depends on how you play the game.

 

You totally missed my point.

 

 

 

Mining is pointless since you do not use any of the intermediate ores (Mithril or Adamant), you do not mine them in bulk, and the only level worth getting is 85, so you can compete with other Rune miners and Revenants.

 

 

 

RuneCrafting is challenging because it's difficult to level, the Runes as a byproduct of training have an actual use, and players aren't shy about making Bloods or Deaths.

 

 

 

Do you see where I'm going with this now? It's not about how I play. It's about the point of the skill to begin with, which was to be a feeder skill to Smithing. You're not mining Mithril or Adamant when you mine, are you? That's my argument.

 

 

 

I completely agree with the first two points, but as for the last, I don't see a problem with grinding. Whether you train for money, skill/quest requirements, or for just achieving a level goal it's really all the same. You can't put an absolute value on those. You might see the quest requirement as more important than the other things, but someone else might feel that achieving the level goal is the more important one.

 

 

 

I don't really see a problem with grinding either, but I contend that it's the only feasible way to train Mining. Most every other resource-gathering skill has elements of grinding to it, but leveling either Fishing or Woodcutting isn't always a grind - you can use Monkfish and Maples/Yews. All I want is an alternative to that.

 

 

 

The purpose of mining was to be able to smith stuff. Back in the days of old you could make a lot of money smithing but now you can't. And because people really only smith for either quest requirements, to mine runite, or get the cape (Which usually is one of the last resource skills to obtain), no one really seems to care about mining.

 

 

 

But Jagex has already noticed this problem. If you complete the Varrock Diaries, your special armor allows you to mine more than one ore (just 2? FAILURE) up to Adamantite. I'd actually do the skill if it had some major updates. All I see in F2P is macros, and all I see in P2P is powerminers (Macros as well).

 

 

 

 

If the effects of the armor were global, I would be complaining a lot less. But they only apply to Varrock's mines, which don't have much to offer for someone of my caliber.

[Sir_Kurity]

Think of it this way.

 

 

 

Mining is slow and boring, but with great rewards at the end.

 

 

 

Runecrafting, is slow and boring, and decent money, with great great rewards at the far far far end.

 

 

 

Skills like woodcutting are fast, or in this case easy but the rewards arent so great.

 

 

 

Fishing, somewhat like woodcutting, or in this case easy but the rewards arent so great.

 

 

 

Every skill has its advantages and disadvantages, why make mining just another woodcutting.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Think of it this way.

 

 

 

Mining is slow and boring, but with great rewards at the end.

 

 

 

Runecrafting, is slow and boring, and decent money, with great great rewards at the far far far end.

 

 

 

Skills like woodcutting are fast, or in this case easy but the rewards arent so great.

 

 

 

Fishing, somewhat like woodcutting, or in this case easy but the rewards arent so great.

 

 

 

Every skill has its advantages and disadvantages, why make mining just another woodcutting.

 

 

 

1) The only "reward" you get is to mine Runite, which pretty much leaves every other ore out of the loop.

 

2) The rewards of Runecrafting are practically apparent when you start - every rune you make actually has a use.

 

3) Woodcutting has rewards sufficient to fulfill its role as a feeder skill (Firemaking and Fletching), so it's just fine.

 

4) Fishing has rewards sufficient to fulfill its role as a feeder skill (Cooking), so it's just fine.

 

5) The point of a gathering skill is to gather. We're not gathering Mithril or Adamant, and to do so would mean you go out of your way. Do you not see that?

[Sir_Kurity]

So, mithril and adamants good money, its often mined alongside coal, as it should be.

 

 

 

Mine addy, mine mith, then mine coal till it respawns.

 

 

 

Decent money. Thats the REWARD.

 

 

 

When compared to woodcutting or something, the rewards are great, sure runite may be the best "only" reward, but by that logic i can claim magic trees as the "only" reward for woodcutting, or sharks are the "only" reward for fishing. Or that the "only" reward for runecrafting is double nats.

 

 

 

You can still make money along the way to 85 mining, its just far better AT 85 mining.

[quelmotz]

So, mithril and adamants good money, its often mined alongside coal, as it should be.

 

 

 

Mine addy, mine mith, then mine coal till it respawns.

 

 

 

Decent money. Thats the REWARD.

 

 

 

When compared to woodcutting or something, the rewards are great, sure runite may be the best "only" reward, but by that logic i can claim magic trees as the "only" reward for woodcutting, or sharks are the "only" reward for fishing. Or that the "only" reward for runecrafting is double nats.

 

 

 

You can still make money along the way to 85 mining, its just far better AT 85 mining.

 

 

 

Rune is FAR better than the rest; its just so much better that its not worth it wasting time mining other ores when you can just powermine more irons to get to lvl 85 mining faster.

 

 

 

Magic trees aren't the only reward for woodcutting, yew logs are good money too (at least for f2pers). Lobsters, swordfish, etc are all good rewards for fishing, aside from sharks. I don't know about runecrafting since my runecrafting level is 7... :?

 

 

 

its just far better AT 85 mining: There, you said it yourself.

[Sir_Kurity]

Nevertheless,

 

 

 

Magic trees: 150k/hr

 

Yews: 120k/hr

 

Rune: 500k/hr

 

 

 

Changing mining according to these suggestions would make rune just another version of woodcutting, piss everyone off who already has high mining, and possibly reduce the profits from higher level ores.

 

 

 

Money is GOOD it is a GOOD money making skill, the thing that stops it from being overgood is that its slow and annoying to level to 85.

[quelmotz]

Nevertheless,

 

 

 

Magic trees: 150k/hr

 

Yews: 120k/hr

 

Rune: 500k/hr

 

 

 

Changing mining according to these suggestions would make rune just another version of woodcutting, piss everyone off who already has high mining, and possibly reduce the profits from higher level ores.

 

 

 

Money is GOOD it is a GOOD money making skill, the thing that stops it from being overgood is that its slow and annoying to level to 85.

 

 

 

I don't give a [bleep] about those high level miners.

 

 

 

Rune giving 500k/h is just absurd, compared to the pathetic amount of money earned by woodcutters.

 

 

 

This update will piss those high level miners off, but who cares. They've been having this advantage for too long. It'll make ore prices crash, but they'll definitely recover after a while. It'll also make rune not as profitable, like it is supposed to be. And also, you're mining ores much faster, so you can get more ores to sell than before. (though the lower prices will kinda balance it out)

[Sir_Kurity]

So, high level miners should be penalized for there dedication.

 

 

 

Sure its a GREAT way to get money, its just really hard.

 

 

 

You need what, 100k iron to get 85 mining? Thats ALOT of mining, and they deserve the reward.

 

 

 

Whats next, nerf runecrafting? Dragons? Avansies? All bosses?

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

So, mithril and adamants good money, its often mined alongside coal, as it should be.

 

 

 

Mine addy, mine mith, then mine coal till it respawns.

 

 

 

Decent money. Thats the REWARD.

 

 

 

When compared to woodcutting or something, the rewards are great, sure runite may be the best "only" reward, but by that logic i can claim magic trees as the "only" reward for woodcutting, or sharks are the "only" reward for fishing. Or that the "only" reward for runecrafting is double nats.

 

 

 

You can still make money along the way to 85 mining, its just far better AT 85 mining.

 

 

 

Were you not paying attention to what I said?

 

 

 

I don't much care if Mining becomes profitable or not, all I want is for Mining to have its dignity again.

 

 

 

To begin with, money is NOT the scope of this rant. I really, really don't care if Mining becomes profitable/ceases to become profitable/becomes the new millionaire skill/whatever, all I want is for Mining to fulfill its purpose as the feeder skill to Smithing. It does not do that right now, no matter how you slice it. That's all I'm arguing - Mining does not fulfill its purpose as a feeder skill to Mining due to the inconvenience of mining Mithril or Adamant. I'm done trying to spell this out to you; reread the rant before you reply to this. Please.

 

 

 

When you define "rewards", sure, money is a factor, but the point of all gathering skills is to supply goods to a processing skill. Mining is the gathering skill for both Smithing and Crafting. Woodcutting has Firemaking and Fletching, and Fishing has Cooking. I'm still contending that Mining does not go all the way to supply resources in the literal middle of the skill (Mith/Addy) for Smithing.

 

 

 

Let me put it to you like this.

 

 

 

You can harpoon Shark, net Monkfish, and go to the Trawler for Mantas/Turtles. Each fish caters to a specific, mid to high level of Cooking skill required.

 

- Fishing has satisfied its role as a feeder skill.

 

 

 

You can cut trees up to Magic, and either burn them or fletch them. This occurs at every iteration of Firemaking and Fletching.

 

- Woodcutting has satisfied its role as a feeder skill.

 

 

 

You can not mine Mithril or Adamant in quantities similar enough to any feeder skill, nor can you acquire them in nearly as much time as Woodcutting - it would take you twice or three times as long to gather 28 Adamant ore in contrast to 28 Magic logs.

 

- Mining has NOT satisfied its role as a feeder skill.

 

 

 

Honestly. Last time I'm spelling this out for you. Read the rant for comprehension this time.

 

 

 

So, high level miners should be penalized for there dedication.

 

 

 

Sure its a GREAT way to get money, its just really hard.

 

 

 

You need what, 100k iron to get 85 mining? Thats ALOT of mining, and they deserve the reward.

 

 

 

Whats next, nerf runecrafting? Dragons? Avansies? All bosses?

 

 

 

I also fail to see how high level miners would get penalized for these suggestions. If anything, they'd be the ones to prosper the most from these. Spell this one out, since you don't seem to know what you're talking about here.

 

 

 

Oh, just did the math - If you started mining nothing but Iron from level 15, you would need to mine roughly 372,344 ores. There's no penalty in starting at that level; it isn't like the resource is gathered any slower, either.

[Sir_Kurity]

The point is, the profit could potentially go DOWN if these suggestions happened.

 

 

 

Also, higher level miners would be stuffed up. For example, if you got 85 mining, and then suddenly it was made easier, wouldn't you get pissed off? Money IS a factor, i don't know what you mean by dignity, but it can make good money, making mining easier would make it another skill like woodcutting, with like a zillion people at 85, and having rune prices drop like a rock.