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Mining Sucks (round 2)


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#1
Makoto_the_Phoenix
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Yes, I'm already aware that a topic like this already existed, but that was last year. I'm fed up with this skill now, and I don't wanna bump an old topic.



Anyway, I've wanted to get this off my chest for a really long time. Mining sucks, plain and simple, and I'm going to tell you three reasons why.



The first should be self-explanatory – one rock, one ore. This is how all resource gathering skills used to be, actually – with Woodcutting, you only got one log per tree, and you only got one lobster/shark/tuna/what-have-you with Fishing, too. That was fine and dandy, but let's fast forward to, say, RS2? Now both Woodcutting and Fishing allow multiple resources per spot, and Mining still has the one rock, one ore policy! What gives?!



I view this as absolutely horrible because of the purpose of resource-gathering skills. With Fishing, you sure are going to use most every fish you catch; the option exists for you to power-train, but Monkfish are both good training and good food, so you bank them. Same with Woodcutting – the option exists to power-train, but more times than not, if you're cutting Yew/Magic, you're cutting them to use the logs (sales, Fletching, Firemaking, and so forth). If you're mining Iron, I would fathom that the phrase 'banking' hasn't even crossed your mind, and rightfully so.



Second, and this somewhat ties into the first – the scarce amount of higher leveled ores on the map in convenient locations. I'm not talking about Runite – the game would be A-OK with about twelve spots of that stuff – but I'm talking about ores that would be useful to mine and smith, namely Mithril and Adamantite. Only problem? There are about 53 Adamantite ore rocks and about 78 Mithril ore rocks in the entire game (and the bulk of them are in places that make it thoroughly impractical to mine, such as the Haunted Mine). Again, what gives?!



This is just pathetic because of the demand of higher level ores in many Smithers' regiment. I'm level 92 Smithing; if I had the option, I would happily mine all the ore and coal myself to get 99 (sans Clay hammers), but I can't. The locations of the ore themselves make it just pointless to try to get it by yourself, or to make profit doing any Mining below 85, without resorting to Coal. Let's take, for instance, the Haunted Mine. This place in game has the largest repository of Mithril and Adamant in the game. Why don't we mine there? First, we have to have the special Mushroom light to actually see things down there, which is a pain in and of itself to acquire. Next, when we're actually done, we have to bank somewhere – the closest such bank being Burgh de Rott, unless you feel like paying 100gp for every time you use the bank near Tarn's Lair.



That's painful. It shouldn't have to be that way.



Third, and this is probably enough to make my Agent Orange act up – power-mining! This is when a player simply mines ores for the experience, and not to benefit anything else – albeit, they were forced into this corner by the Mining skill designer. I view power-mining as destroying the entire point of this skill, although I can't say I respect anyone with decent Mining any less; again, they were forced into it. I don't like the idea of making players who are serious about Mining have to sit at some god-forsaken mine for three months (*cough*GRANITE*cough*), leveling a skill to only be able to mine Runite ore, and never, ever gathering any higher level ores for the higher level Smith to use. What gives?!



I'll tell you again, it really wasn't the players' choice to power-mine, since the idea of mining to bank is both impractical and thoroughly tedious. I don't think that this should be. I really, really resent the idea of making me mine nothing but Granite (or any other ore in large abundance, perhaps Gold) just to get my level up. I want to be able to mine Adamant and Mithril with purpose, not to get some fancy-schmancy cape that serves NO function to Miners other than saying, 'Hey, I got 99 Mining! Woo!'



Before I wrap up, I'm going to denounce the idea of making more higher leveled ores in the game. We'll still have the same situation we've got – one ore per rock, probably buried somewhere super deep in Meiyerditch, and the only way to actually be able to mine it would be to have 94 mining and a Dragon pickaxe. Epic fail, man, just epic fail. For God's sake, we don't need higher leveled ores or a Dragon pickaxe until we fix the problem we have already, okay?



*deep breath*



Okay, now that's off my chest, I'm not one to mindlessly rant without presenting a solution. To that end, I present the solution to Mining in two phases.



The first would be a simple fix – increase the number of ores we can get from rocks. What's wrong with this? Nothing. It'd make Mining finally behave just like Woodcutting and Fishing. For those of you that think it would 'nerf' the skill – you're going to have to explain this to me, since I already view Mining as nerfed in its current state.



The second would be to add more Mithril and Adamantite to various, convenient mines already in the game (yeah, I'm lookin' at YOU, Mining Guild). It's pathetic that we have such few higher leveled resources like those, whereas Woodcutters have Yews in rather convenient places (Rimmington + Rocking Out), and Mages that are decently situated to the Legends' Guild. What's wrong with this? Again, nothing. It wouldn't cause an imbalance to the skill overall. Sure, the prices for ores would drop a little bit, but that's a good thing. Less expensive ore means more players buying the ore, and more players buying the ore means prices rise naturally again.



Consider that once we give miners the incentive to mine higher leveled ores, the third problem doesn't become the only way to level Mining. It falls back to the traditional “option exists” phase, which is better than “only option if you want to actually level this skill in your lifetime”.



Please, share your comments on this; I want to know what others think about this skill.

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#2
All_Is_Great
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I dont think making multiple ores per rock would go well with those high lvl miners. "All our hard work was wasted! And now the mining cape has lost most of it's respect!"



But... I do think adding more ores and convenient banking spots would raise the skill's popularity, maybe have dwarves note the ores for a little cost, etc.

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#3
Abc1230
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Now I'm going to rant about you noobs who don't know how to think >.> If you got >1 ore/rock the ore would be worth less. Same if you made more rocks. The only reason you made this thread was because you thought you knew something... obviously not true. If you don't like mining, don't train it >.>

#4
Makoto_the_Phoenix
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I dont think making multiple ores per rock would go well with those high lvl miners. "All our hard work was wasted! And now the mining cape has lost most of it's respect!"




Fair point, but I personally don't want to get Carpal Tunnel just so I could have respect in RS.



I don't know how multiple ore per rock would go with high level miners, but I believe it would be alright, considering that their levels have a use beyond just mining Runite.



Now I'm going to rant about you noobs who don't know how to think >.> If you got >1 ore/rock the ore would be worth less. Same if you made more rocks. The only reason you made this thread was because you thought you knew something... obviously not true. If you don't like mining, don't train it >.>




First, I realize that more resource = lesser price. I'm not naive. But, let's stop and think for a second - did I for one second consider moving Runite any closer than where it was now? Since that's the ore that everyone is concerned with, anyway. The answer: NO, and you would have gotten that had you actually read the rant.



Second, I'm absolutely fed up with the "don't like it, don't train it" argument. What the hell does that contribute to this? I might not like the skill, but does that means I don't have to train it? I'll tell you this; I like Mining enough to suggest that it get improved, and give Smithers back their purpose. If you don't like that, don't read this rant any further.



Seriously now, give me a better argument than "don't like, don't train". That's equivalent to tl;dr.

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#5
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Good points. :thumbup:

#6
mmmcannibalism
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just a thought on the multiple ores, maybe it could work like runecrafting to some extent. No idea on numbers but say by the time you get 85 mining you get 2 addy ores per rock.
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#7
unkn0wnwarrior
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I would like to see more higher level ores throughout the map. Mostly mithril, as I rarely have trouble getting adamantite. Better banking options would be nice, too. But I still don't see a need for multiple ores per rock. Don't get me wrong, I won't rant if they change it, but I don't care if it ever happens.



As for powermining, never have, never will. I would rather take time to bank the ores so I can raise my smithing and (depending on the bars in question) magic via alchemy (superheat if I want it to go by quicker).

#8
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just a thought on the multiple ores, maybe it could work like runecrafting to some extent. No idea on numbers but say by the time you get 85 mining you get 2 addy ores per rock.


That's not bad. Funnily enough, I had the same idea - except for Smithers instead - stackable coal to smelt with, woo! :D



I would like to see more higher level ores throughout the map. Mostly mithril, as I rarely have trouble getting adamantite. Better banking options would be nice, too. But I still don't see a need for multiple ores per rock. Don't get me wrong, I won't rant if they change it, but I don't care if it ever happens.




One hand would wash the other quite well in this scenario - better banking options for Mithril/Adamant, no need to have more than one ore per rock. It still gets under my skin a bit how this skill hasn't been updated since RS2, with the gathering and what-not.

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#9
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I agree, terrible skill. Needs a pyramid plunder like minigame in my opinion.
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#10
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Great thread! :thumbsup:



I got flamed to near death in another thread about the same thing, so I must warn you, be mentally prepared for noobs! Don't worry though, I'll definitely back you up. :<img src=:' />



Especially those who post crap like this.



Now I'm going to rant about you noobs who don't know how to think >.> If you got >1 ore/rock the ore would be worth less. Same if you made more rocks. The only reason you made this thread was because you thought you knew something... obviously not true. If you don't like mining, don't train it >.>




Firstly, there's no reason why ores can't be worth less. Don't whine about making less money/the skill will lose popularity. Is mining popular nowadays, may I ask? And woodcutters got by just fine selling logs. And sometimes you can get up to 20 or so logs per tree. If I'm not wrong, even if adamantite ore prices fall by half or so, they'll still be worth more than yew logs (or maybe magic logs?).



And those who complain about "making too much money with rune ore" or whatever, ask yourself: Will runite ore prices remain the same although the effort required to train it to that level decrease? No. Fat chance. Runite ore prices will drop to a level where they reflect the effort and time needed to get it.



I dont think making multiple ores per rock would go well with those high lvl miners. "All our hard work was wasted! And now the mining cape has lost most of it's respect!"




Who cares a [bleep] about high level players? A skillcape is to show your level 99 in a skill, not how you got it. If I got to level 99 mining with a bronze pickaxe and tin ore, do I deserve more respect than someone who did it with a rune pickaxe and iron/coal ore? No. You can boast, sure, but who'd listen?



Once again, great thread. :thumbsup:

#11
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Very well written rant, brilliant!



I believe you have some great points, and although when I first read the topic I thought "Yeah, he has this spot on". But now I think about it, some things you have to consider.



Let me try and explain. Woodcutting, you can get multiple logs from a tree and therefore xp is not THAT bad, however, the price of a log is not particularly great in general. Runecrafting, on the other hand, is ridiculously slow xp, yet the gains are greater. Basically, what i am saying is that there has to be a balance in the xp gained and the financial gains.



Generally, the more the skill requires attention, that player will get just reward. In this case, mining. Yes, the xp rates are pathetic, i agree, however, the gains from the ores are relative.



One of your best ideas to me would be multiple ores per rock, however, the rate of gaining an ore would need to be slightly slower. This would sound contradcitory in that the speed of xp would not increase as much as you intended, however, this would keep the ores at a reasonable price. It would then be slightly more afkable and keep a decent income.



I hope I make sense, as I am rushing this post at work!
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I agree with everything, but 1 thing.

I have to say that Mining will lose its name as the most grindable yet respectable 99 in existance if people got more than 1 ore from a rock. Sure it makes it sound good, but to be honest, it's unrealistic (Jagex somehow aims at that :lol:), and it would have a MASSIVE effect on the whole game.. Much worse than you think. And you think its bad :|
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Very well written rant, brilliant!



I believe you have some great points, and although when I first read the topic I thought "Yeah, he has this spot on". But now I think about it, some things you have to consider.



Let me try and explain. Woodcutting, you can get multiple logs from a tree and therefore xp is not THAT bad, however, the price of a log is not particularly great in general. Runecrafting, on the other hand, is ridiculously slow xp, yet the gains are greater. Basically, what i am saying is that there has to be a balance in the xp gained and the financial gains.



Generally, the more the skill requires attention, that player will get just reward. In this case, mining. Yes, the xp rates are pathetic, i agree, however, the gains from the ores are relative.



One of your best ideas to me would be multiple ores per rock, however, the rate of gaining an ore would need to be slightly slower. This would sound contradcitory in that the speed of xp would not increase as much as you intended, however, this would keep the ores at a reasonable price. It would then be slightly more afkable and keep a decent income.



I hope I make sense, as I am rushing this post at work!


Aren't the ore prices already way to low to make a decent profit while mining anyway? (excluding rune)
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For F2P no

For P2P its too low to even care for. Until 85 mining, it sucks for cash and is an all-round fail skill, yet important.
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#15
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Now I'm going to rant about you noobs who don't know how to think >.> If you got >1 ore/rock the ore would be worth less. Same if you made more rocks. The only reason you made this thread was because you thought you knew something... obviously not true. If you don't like mining, don't train it >.>


If you'd have read the rant you'd have realised that he did know something.

I was a well thought out rant as it goes.

I believe that the rune ore is currently fine but i believe if there was more addy + mith, then miners would be tempted to mine that, causing prices to drop( not by too much ) enabling people to buy/mine them and level mining, and another unpopular skill, smithing.


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Let me try and explain. Woodcutting, you can get multiple logs from a tree and therefore xp is not THAT bad, however, the price of a log is not particularly great in general. Runecrafting, on the other hand, is ridiculously slow xp, yet the gains are greater. Basically, what i am saying is that there has to be a balance in the xp gained and the financial gains.

Perhaps the reason gains are greater on Runecrafting is that it's slow xp and requires that you pay attention, unlike Woodcutting. Don't underestimate the market's ability to readjust to allow for a simple fix like this.



I thought this was a great thread; a rant worthy of these forums. Most are just slapped together upon losing some item or being called a "n00b", but this was obviously well-constructed. :thumbup:
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#17
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Generally, the more the skill requires attention, that player will get just reward. In this case, mining. Yes, the xp rates are pathetic, i agree, however, the gains from the ores are relative.




This is true in general, but the notion of power-mining levels breaks this philosophy. Consider that granite had no real use pre-Summoning, and many people that I knew got 85 or higher there. At the time, they gained nothing from mining granite, and even today, even with the granite familiar available, players don't use any of the granite dropped there.



It would be relative entirely if players trained on Mithril or Adamant, and banked/smelted them, but that doesn't much apply with this skill.



One of your best ideas to me would be multiple ores per rock, however, the rate of gaining an ore would need to be slightly slower. This would sound contradcitory in that the speed of xp would not increase as much as you intended, however, this would keep the ores at a reasonable price. It would then be slightly more afkable and keep a decent income.




I don't intend for the experience to increase, no; I intend for the rewards to increase. Give me ten Mithril ores from the same rock at the experience of six of them; I'm pacified. Besides, I was prepared to trade the faster ores for less experience in the first place, since it would balance itself out in the end anyway.



I agree with everything, but 1 thing.

I have to say that Mining will lose its name as the most grindable yet respectable 99 in existance if people got more than 1 ore from a rock. Sure it makes it sound good, but to be honest, it's unrealistic (Jagex somehow aims at that :lol:), and it would have a MASSIVE effect on the whole game.. Much worse than you think. And you think its bad :|




To the first point, yes I realize that this skill would lose some of its prestige, but in my eyes, Mining was intended to be a resource gathering skill, not some Holy Grail of skillers everywhere. If the skill is intended to gather resources, then it should do so a heck of a lot better than it has been lately.



Next, I could see how it would have a massive effect on the game. Resources would become cheaper, meaning that Mining and Smithing become more feasible to train. I'm almost certain that, with the influx of Runite miners, that market would just about collapse, but I say that with a grain of salt; the only reason anyone mines Runite is because it's the only ore worth the trouble. Do feel free to spell this one out for me, if I missed something here.

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#18
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Minings allready a great money making skill.



And, because of oversupply of ores, it won't necessarily make it a better money making skill, infact to be honest, all it would really do in the long run is make smithing cheaper and easier, mining easier, and generally stuff things up.
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#19
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Minings allready a great money making skill.



And, because of oversupply of ores, it won't necessarily make it a better money making skill, infact to be honest, all it would really do in the long run is make smithing cheaper and easier, mining easier, and generally stuff things up.


That's not the scope of this rant. I don't much care if Mining becomes profitable or not, all I want is for Mining to have its dignity again.

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#20
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Minings allready a great money making skill.



And, because of oversupply of ores, it won't necessarily make it a better money making skill, infact to be honest, all it would really do in the long run is make smithing cheaper and easier, mining easier, and generally stuff things up.


That's not the scope of this rant. I don't much care if Mining becomes profitable or not, all I want is for Mining to have its dignity again.




True. Who wants a money-making skill that takes INCREDIBLY long periods of time of grinding away doing pointless training JUST to earn some money. They are much easier ways to earn money (for members), and for f2p, getting 85 mining just takes too long.




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