Hegemony-V2 begins page 302

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As Stargate scientists state:

 

A zero point module extracts zero point energy from subspace. That last sentence makes no sense. Zero point energy is un-extractable, it is the minimum energy a system can have. Subspace is a plot device that has no theoretical basis for existence. Therefore the using zero point energy bit and subspace bit from the description of a ZPM are nonsense.

 

We can therefore form a scientifically accurate description of a ZPM:

A zero point module is nonsense.

 

Standard arguement:

Your assumption that its nonesense only shows that you're incapable of thinking beyond the paradigm that current quantum theory and string theory has set up. I'm certainly glad that you're not the researcher that is supposed to be pioneering new discoveries into this area.

 

Counter argument.

Zero point energy is the residual energy that exists in a system because one or more parameters are unable to reach zero due to the uncertainty principle. Vacuum energy and the Casimir effect come from spontaneous pair production of virtual particles, which then go on to have a net effect on the surrounding real particles. Hawking Radiation stems from the same phenomena. The problem with exploiting vacuum energy is that extracting it will probably not result in a net energy gain, but it would be handy if it could be exploited.

 

 

Essentially, for those who don't care:

The Uncertainty principle states you cannot measure X if you measure Y because measuring Y makes X different.

So therefore if X is 0 then Y must be more or less than 0, if it is less than 0 then the universe collapses and therefore must be positive...thus is zero point energy.

 

What professor Mather ignores is the fact that if Y's energy was extracted, and it also became 0 then X would no longer be 0 and would need energy to supply this change...Thus the energy from Y would be transfered to X...

 

Essentially we can split hairs because that is what you would be doing...you would be taking 0.0e+Infinatum 1 energy from each electron pair. So unless you had Space*Infinaty(or you invented subspace to be infinate for you) and some magical way to extract energy over the infinate volume of your container, and you were capable of scraping energy, without expending any energy, then fine....You come back to me in 8000 RL years when you have done all that and we will talk.

 

If not then I am bringing back my people because I think I could create the Death Star and it wouldn't make any difference next to a 3T$ Pentawatt super energy source...Would be like building a laser capable of writing 'Science, what a joke' on the Sun...

 

Its the sort of pseudo math that only TV can get away with.

 

 

 

Also where did this oxygen come from? You supplied Methane....

[The_Mather1]

As Stargate scientists state:

 

A zero point module extracts zero point energy from subspace. That last sentence makes no sense. Zero point energy is un-extractable, it is the minimum energy a system can have. Subspace is a plot device that has no theoretical basis for existence. Therefore the using zero point energy bit and subspace bit from the description of a ZPM are nonsense.

 

We can therefore form a scientifically accurate description of a ZPM:

A zero point module is nonsense.

That has never been said in any episode or movie, liar. I have watched all[except a few from the first two seasons of SG-1(ZPMs weren't known yet then)). But there's a small difference between my ZPM and those in StarGate; mine extract the energy directly from the nano-wormholes whereas those from StarGate takes the energy from the foam itself.

Created by the Ancients millions of years ago, ZPMs are capable of generating massive amounts of energy, which is drawn from a pocket of subspace-time known as the quantum foam (subatomic wormholes constantly opening and closing and fading in and out of subspace).

 

Anyways, it was approved almost 100 days ago so stop arguing.

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Nano-Wormholes...

 

A link of 1-nanometer radius would only mass some 6.73E19 kilograms or approximately 7% of the mass of the Sol System asteroid Ceres.

 

Yup, planet destroying right here...

[The_Mather1]

Nano-Wormholes...

 

A link of 1-nanometer radius would only mass some 6.73E19 kilograms or approximately 7% of the mass of the Sol System asteroid Ceres.

 

Yup, planet destroying right here...

So quantum/space-time foam weighs alot, how is that planet destroying? It's not like I'm making it, merely collecting of it.

 

Eight more drop-pods are made, making it a total of thirteen. Also pentasaccharides are used to make a lot of candy and cakes which are vacuum packed in a temperature of -200 degrees C. and 1000 liters of highest-quality oil is made.

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You are collecting wormholes...This ZPM of yours really is a jack of all trades isn't it...

"Carter! What are you doing with that ZPM."

"Well sir I thought if I put it inside the Stargate it might absorb the wormhole."

*Set explodes*

 

Point is:

Your method of collecting energy costs a solar system worth of energy.

The energy you are collecting doesn't exist.

Its game breaking...

 

How is it game breaking? You can afford 36 of them in a year...So 36 Septillion Volts or 36 Yotta Volts...The Sun outputs 368 Yotta Volts, so in 10 years you have produced the same amount of energy as a star.

 

"Carter! What are you doing with those 368 ZPMs?"

"I was going to open a wormhole and toss them though, then create a new star somewhere in space."

*Set explodes*

 

Or better yet, if that energy was absorbed it would be equivilant of 11,126,500.5605361 KILOGRAMS of MATTER being DESTROYED(or created). So thats 11,126 TONNES or 11 GIGATONNES of matter being destroyed PER ZPM.

 

In perspective...Quark Fusion would have to run a generator for fifty years(2,628 kg per year) and would produce 5,781,600 Giga Watts or 5.8 Penta Watts or a hell of alot less than you produce...

 

Therefore your technology is vastly more powerful than ANYTHING anyone else could every dream up because it is game breaking....

Now then...

[Retech]

Essentially, for those who don't care:

The Uncertainty principle states you cannot measure X if you measure Y because measuring Y makes X different.

So therefore if X is 0 then Y must be more or less than 0, if it is less than 0 then the universe collapses and therefore must be positive...thus is zero point energy.

 

What professor Mather ignores is the fact that if Y's energy was extracted, and it also became 0 then X would no longer be 0 and would need energy to supply this change...Thus the energy from Y would be transfered to X...

 

Essentially we can split hairs because that is what you would be doing...you would be taking 0.0e+Infinatum 1 energy from each electron pair. So unless you had Space*Infinaty(or you invented subspace to be infinate for you) and some magical way to extract energy over the infinate volume of your container, and you were capable of scraping energy, without expending any energy, then fine....You come back to me in 8000 RL years when you have done all that and we will talk.

 

If not then I am bringing back my people because I think I could create the Death Star and it wouldn't make any difference next to a 3T$ Pentawatt super energy source...Would be like building a laser capable of writing 'Science, what a joke' on the Sun...

 

Its the sort of pseudo math that only TV can get away with.

 

 

 

Also where did this oxygen come from? You supplied Methane....

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

Two things:

 

1. Where does the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle say anything about this? I believe it's about that you cannot find the exact location of an electron and its speed at the same time. Namely because if you tried to find the location and speed of an electron, you'd have to try and find the point of which a wave is located or the speed of which a singularity is moving.

 

I think we're applying this to many different things here that aren't applicable. Were those quotes from Wiki?

 

 

2. What oxygen?

[The_Mather1]

ZPMs harvest the energy of nano-sized wormholes that form inside the quantum foam, not the wormholes themselves in normal space,

 

ZPMs output one Peta Watt, less than you converted your impossible, non-researched quark generators to.

 

And the reason it is powerfull(but not to such an extent that it is gamebreaking) is because it will have been researched for over 100 years! The highest ammount except for Ross' ARC-laser.

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Britannica Concise Encyclopedia: zero-point energy

Top Home > Library > Miscellaneous > Britannica Concise Encyclopedia

 

Vibrational energy retained by molecules even at a temperature of absolute zero. Since temperature is a measure of the intensity of molecular motion, molecules would be expected to come to rest at absolute zero. However, if molecular motion were to cease altogether, the atoms would each have a precisely known location and velocity (zero), and the uncertainty principle states that this cannot occur, since precise values of both position and velocity of an object cannot be known simultaneously. Thus, even molecules at absolute zero must have some zero-point energy.

 

 

I reiterate...

In perspective...Quark Fusion would have to run a generator for fifty years(2,628 kg per year) and would produce 5,781,600 Giga Watts or 5.8 Penta Watts

 

ZPMs harvest the energy of nano-sized wormholes that form inside the quantum foam, not the wormholes themselves in normal space,

 

Magically, without any energy input.

 

ZPMs output one Peta Watt

 

Sorry, your tech is equivilant to 11 Kilos of Mass being create/destroyed.

Your tech produces as much energy as the Earth gets from the Sun....If you covered the Earth with Solar Panels you would get less energy than if you had 1 ZPM....

 

100 years is not an excuse for breaking the laws of physics, inventing a concept you quite like the look of nor creating energy sources which are clearly designed to let you use wormholes.

[Retech]

I dispute the accuracy of zero-point energy. To Wikipedia!

[The_Mather1]

Quantum foam, also referred to as spacetime foam, is a concept in quantum mechanics, devised by John Wheeler in 1955. The foam is supposedly the foundations of the fabric of the universe,[1] but it can also be used as a qualitative description of subatomic spacetime turbulence at extremely small distances of the order of the Planck length. At such small scales of time and space the uncertainty principle allows particles and energy to briefly come into existence, and then annihilate, without violating conservation laws. As the scale of time and space being discussed shrinks, the energy of the virtual particles increases. Since energy curves spacetime according to Einstein's theory of general relativity, this suggests that at sufficiently small scales the energy of the fluctuations would be large enough to cause significant departures from the smooth spacetime seen at larger scales, giving spacetime a "foamy" character. However, without a theory of quantum gravity it is impossible to be certain what spacetime would look like at these scales, since it is thought that existing theories do not give accurate predictions in this domain. However, observations of radiation from nearby quasars by Floyd Stecker of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., have placed strong limits on the possible violations of Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity implied by the existence of quantum foam.

 

 

Relation to other theories

 

Quantum foam is theorized to be created by virtual particles of very high energy. Virtual particles appear in quantum field theory, where they arise briefly and then annihilate during particle interactions, in such a way that they affect the measured outputs of the interaction even though the virtual particles are themselves never directly observed. They can also appear and annihilate briefly in empty space, and these "vacuum fluctuations" affect the properties of the vacuum, giving it a nonzero energy known as vacuum energy, a type of zero-point energy (however, physicists are uncertain about the magnitude of this energy [3]). The Casimir effect can also be understood in terms of the behavior of virtual particles in the empty space between two parallel plates. Ordinarily quantum field theory does not deal with virtual particles of sufficient energy to curve spacetime significantly, so quantum foam is a speculative extension of these concepts which imagines the consequences of such high-energy virtual particles at very short distances and times.

 

The "foamy" spacetime would look like a complex turbulent storm-tossed sea. Some physicists theorize the formation of wormholes therein; speculation arising from this includes the possibility of hyperspatial links to other universes.

 

The existence of vacuum energy is also sometimes used, outside of mainstream physics, as controversial theoretical justification for the possibility of free energy machines. It has been argued that due to the broken symmetry (in QED), free energy does not violate conservation of energy, since the laws of thermodynamics only apply to equilibrium systems. However, consensus amongst physicists is that this is incorrect and that vacuum energy cannot be harnessed to generate free energy.[2] In particular, the second law of thermodynamics is unaffected by the existence of vacuum energy.

 

Proposed free energy devices

 

As a scientific concept, the existence of zero point energy is not controversial although the ability to harness it is. In particular, perpetual motion machines and other power generating devices supposedly based on zero point energy are highly controversial. No device claimed to operate using zero point energy has been demonstrated to operate as claimed. No plausible description of a device drawing useful power from a source of zero point energy has been given. Thus, current claims to zero point energy-based power generation systems currently have the status of pseudoscience or constitute outright fraud.

 

The discovery of zero point energy did not alter the implausibility of perpetual motion machines. Much attention has been given to reputable science suggesting that zero point energy is infinite, but zero point energy is a minimum energy below which a thermodynamic system can never go, thus none of this energy can be withdrawn without altering the system to a different form in which the system has a lower zero point energy. The calculation that underlies the Casimir experiment, a calculation based on the formula predicting infinite vacuum energy, shows the zero point energy of a system consisting of a vacuum between two plates will decrease at a finite rate as the two plates are drawn together. The vacuum energies are predicted to be infinite, but the changes are predicted to be finite. Casimir combined the projected rate of change in zero point energy with the principle of conservation of energy to predict a force on the plates. The predicted force, which is very small and was experimentally measured to be within 5% of its predicted value, is finite.[9] Even though the zero point energy might be infinite, there is no theoretical basis or practical evidence to suggest that infinite amounts of zero point energy are available for use, that zero point energy can be withdrawn for free, or that zero point energy can be used in violation of conservation of energy.

 

History

 

In the year 1900, Max Planck derived the formula for the energy of a single "energy radiator", i.e. a vibrating atomic unit, as:[3]

 

\epsilon = \frac{h\nu}{ e^{\frac{h\nu}{kT}}-1}

 

where h is Planck's constant, ν is the frequency, k is Boltzmann's constant, and T is the absolute temperature.

 

Then in 1913, using this formula as a basis, Albert Einstein and Otto Stern published a paper of great significance in which they suggested for the first time the existence of a residual energy that all oscillators have at absolute zero. They called this "residual energy" and then Nullpunktsenergie (in German), which later became translated as zero-point energy. They carried out an analysis of the specific heat of hydrogen gas at low temperature, and concluded that the data are best represented if the vibrational energy is taken to have the form:

 

\epsilon = \frac{h\nu}{ e^{\frac{h\nu}{kT}}-1} + \frac{h\nu}{2}

 

According to this expression, an atomic system at absolute zero retains an energy of ½hν.

 

 

Foundational physics

 

The energy of a system is relative, and is defined only in relation to some given state (often called the reference state). One might associate a motionless system with zero energy, but doing so is purely arbitrary. In quantum physics, it is natural to associate the energy with the expectation value of a certain operator, the Hamiltonian of the system. For almost all quantum-mechanical systems, the lowest possible expectation value of this operator, which would be the zero-point energy, is not zero. Adding an arbitrary constant to the Hamiltonian gives an equivalent description of the physical system, but can make the zero-point energy different. Regardless of what constant is added to the Hamiltonian, the minimum momentum is always the same non-zero value.

 

All from wikipedia.

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Even though the zero point energy might be infinite, there is no theoretical basis or practical evidence to suggest that infinite amounts of zero point energy are available for use, that zero point energy can be withdrawn for free, or that zero point energy can be used in violation of conservation of energy.

From above.

 

And No Mather, stating that there is energy loss does not qualify as trumping that. Face the facts, you are wrong. ZPMs are a busted flush.

 

But problems are looming, Ellis says. "We know there are inconsistencies in these theories. It's just a question of when the inconsistencies are going to show up in the data." The best solution would be to find the underlying theory from which relativity and quantum mechanics can be inferred.

 

New Science Magazine, Article on Quantum Foam, 1999.

[The_Mather1]

Even though the zero point energy might be infinite, there is no theoretical basis or practical evidence to suggest that infinite amounts of zero point energy are available for use, that zero point energy can be withdrawn for free, or that zero point energy can be used in violation of conservation of energy.

From above.

 

And No Mather, stating that there is energy loss does not qualify as trumping that. Face the facts, you are wrong. ZPMs are a busted flush.

ZPMs last for 3,333.3333... years each at full capasity, that is a proof that the fact that a finite amount was known by me and I have never said ZPMs could be "started" aline, no energy generation can, now go hide in a corner and die.

[Retech]

Just calm down everyone. Just a game. :D

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Ummmm lets look at that statement...

Yup, lets infer that you mean you can produce 1 Pentawatt per second for 33,333 years....Suddenly it is even more ridiculous than we prevouisly thought.

 

that is a proof that the fact that a finite amount was known by me

Oh I see. 33,333 years at 1 Pentawatt a second/year/whatever is very realistic considering you are scrapping point infinate zeros worth of energy from the lowest energy state possible.

 

Your idea doesn't work because it relies on the concept of the unknown...There might be this much energy, but that looks too low for what I want, therefore there must be more!

 

Zero-point energy is not energy that can be harvested because it was then the universe would stop working....So please stop.

 

 

Retech:

Must-win-trivial-argument. Ignorance of humanity is depending on it :thumbsup:

Anyway I am off to play Star Trek, a nice game which was correct at time of release

[Retech]

Must be a Saturday again... <_<

[archimage_a]

I tell you Retech they only come out at night...or in this case the day... :thumbup:

[Retech]

On a totally different subject, can we start Aeroiki yet? We basically have the system set.

[archimage_a]

Nah not yet, Christmas and basically until Feburary(And possibly beyond Star Trek Online!!!!!) is full of stuff that I ought to be doing. Aeroika would just give me a reason not to do it, and that would not be a good at the moment. Anyway I actually am going now. Toodle pip.

[The_Mather1]

Ummmm lets look at that statement...

Yup, lets infer that you mean you can produce 1 Pentawatt per second for 33,333 years....Suddenly it is even more ridiculous than we prevouisly thought.

 

that is a proof that the fact that a finite amount was known by me

Oh I see. 33,333 years at 1 Pentawatt a second/year/whatever is very realistic considering you are scrapping point infinate zeros worth of energy from the lowest energy state possible.

 

Your idea doesn't work because it relies on the concept of the unknown...There might be this much energy, but that looks too low for what I want, therefore there must be more!

 

Zero-point energy is not energy that can be harvested because it was then the universe would stop working....So please stop.

 

 

Retech:

Must-win-trivial-argument. Ignorance of humanity is depending on it :thumbsup:

Anyway I am off to play Star Trek, a nice game which was correct at time of release

3,333 years not 33,333 years, zero-point-energy isn't the same as zero energy, watts are produced per second, watts = volts * ampere / ohm / time, I think.

 

Now stop claiming my ongoing tech was impossible, how would you like researching something for eighty years before someone new comes in and takes control of the game and tells you your tech is disalowed because he thinks some teories are to be marked as unusable?

[Grim_]

Its not quite dead yet. Anyways I am fortifying the islands that I got from sere and Starting the reverse engineering of the tech in the ships/exo suits. Also where did the strange matter bombs that I sent to the sephar system go?

[The_Mather1]

One more drop-pod is to be made, total = 14.

[Retech]

Not sure how long I was since my last report, but basically I keep building my space fleet and putting more civilians to be soldiers. I believe my population is exceeding 10 billion soon.

[Seraphi]

Grim, which Exo-suits are you reverse-engineering?

If they're mine, I don't think so.

[Wisp]

[hide=][/hide]

 

Here is a view from space of a terraformed Mars, for your viewing pleasure.

 

Sere, just saying, the downside of slowing down aging is that people will heal slower. So like, broken bones, cuts, and so on will all taker longer to heal.

 

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but how would eliminating the aging process cause healing to be slower? Couldn't cell reproduction still occur, just without the wear and tear from aging?

 

Anyway, the "immortality" thing arises from my anti-aging drug that was co-researched with Rpg, which was based off of an already-existing drug that he had. Basically, we just improved the anti-aging drug and found a way to eliminate the side-effects (early death, etc). Because the anti-aging process was eliminated, the problems from the aging process (deterioration of organs) were eliminated. The only things that really cause death now are disease and natural disasters. Also, I didn't care much about the scientific aspect as much since most of the things in the game at the moment are impossible in real life anyway. As long as it seemed plausible and wasn't overpowered, I didn't think it was that big of a deal.

The way people age is when cells reproduce, they do so quickly, and occasionally errors are made. Let's say you have a cell that's AAAAA. It duplicates, but messes up, and now there are two AABAA cells. All the cells that come from those cells will all have the same mutation. Eventually, there will be enough mutation that it has bad effects. The older you are, the more likely you are to have the bad effects since there has been more time for error. Anyway, by slowing down the cell duplication process by a largeish amount you can prevent most of the mutations from happening, but that also means that the body heals slower, is more affected by illness, etc.

 

Hmm. My drug does prevent the mutations, yes, but it's also designed to keep cell production going at about the same rate. Are we talking about "bubble-boy" type stuff here?

It can't really stop mutations without slowing down the cell production rate.

Here's what I'm thinking your drug would look like:

 

Pros:

Slows down aging dramatically. People will still age over time, but only if they're unlucky.

Cons:

Slows down healing

More time as a child (They'd probably be the equivalent to 15 years old at anywhere from 30-45 years old)

Weaker to disease, as white blood cells take longer to reproduce.

[Seraphi]

Solution, make them live in steralized bubbles.