How Easy Do You Want It?

[Guest]

 

Wow, look at the hypocrisy.

 

 

 

You were the one starting the personal attacks. You wrote one whole post filled with quite a number of personal attacks.

 

 

 

Go ahead and insult me if you want.

 

 

 

Show me something I have said about you that isn't true. I don't need to insult you. You're doing a good job of a tantrum on here now, for all to see. I think Erewhon2 pointed out quite a number of attacks you made. You can keep acting like a little boy or you can grow up. Up to you.

[Rainy_Day]

If you all cannot handle a debate, then maybe you should not take part in them. Resorting to personal attacks/general rudeness is simply not appropriate when taking part in a RuneScape debate, I'd like to hope we're all more mature than that. :?

[quelmotz]

 

Wow, look at the hypocrisy.

 

 

 

You were the one starting the personal attacks. You wrote one whole post filled with quite a number of personal attacks.

 

 

 

Go ahead and insult me if you want.

 

 

 

Show me something I have said about you that isn't true. I don't need to insult you. You're doing a good job of a tantrum on here now, for all to see. I think Erewhon2 pointed out quite a number of attacks you made. You can keep acting like a little boy or you can grow up. Up to you.

 

 

 

Show me something that I said about you that isn't true.

 

 

 

Children don't know how to step away from a fight and let the other party win. You're the one doing so. I've already stopped arguing with you, yet you press on.

[Guest]

 

Show me something that I said about you that isn't true.

 

 

 

Children don't know how to step away from a fight and let the other party win. You're the one doing so. I've already stopped arguing with you, yet you press on.

 

 

 

I believe Erewhon2 pointed this out to you:

 

 

 

My opinion is what I said above. Can't you read?

 

Too bad, so what if I don't give an opinion? What are you going to do? Kill me?

 

Seriously, shut up with your sense of "superiority" just because you have high levels in some stupid skills. You've said it yourself - anyone can debate, so shut up.

 

Ok, you win your stupid argument. Go and gloat about it.

 

Or are you such a sore loser that you have to have the "easier" topic so you can "win" the debate more easily?

 

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

 

I'll just say it here - you're too stubborn.

 

Just because you got your 99s or whatever stats the "old" way

 

I'm saying just because you got your crappy stats the "old" and "harder" way

 

Looks like you never checked the dictionary before you started spouting nonsense eh? You don't need to have cancer to know it's bad.

 

Will you shut the hell up with your ad hominems?

 

And how many freaking times must I say: I DO NOT WANT IT EASY.

 

Really, how many times do I have to repeat myself to drill the point into your thick skull?

 

Now you're effectively praising the no-lifers and people who play on the computer hours.

 

Are you really that freaking dumb?

 

I can't believe you don't have enough common sense to understand what I'm saying.

 

 

 

 

You're saying that all of this is not personal attacks on people? Please feel free to show me where I have personally attacked you. If pointing out your lack of game experience and asking you to explain points is a personal attack then you're being very sensitive about this issue. Please feel free to debate Erewhon2's debate points but at least come up with justifications to your points rather than making them and when someone disagrees with you don't attack them. :-$

[Troacctid]

 

Wow, look at the hypocrisy.

 

 

 

You were the one starting the personal attacks. You wrote one whole post filled with quite a number of personal attacks.

 

 

 

Go ahead and insult me if you want.

 

 

 

Show me something I have said about you that isn't true. I don't need to insult you. You're doing a good job of a tantrum on here now, for all to see. I think Erewhon2 pointed out quite a number of attacks you made. You can keep acting like a little boy or you can grow up. Up to you.

 

 

 

Show me something that I said about you that isn't true.

 

 

 

Children don't know how to step away from a fight and let the other party win. You're the one doing so. I've already stopped arguing with you, yet you press on.

 

So don't respond then. :wall:

 

 

 

Just drop it, he's probably trolling anyway.

 

 

 

Me, I posted my whole shpiel on the first page and nobody even responded to it. Guess I'm just that good. 8-)

 

 

 

Can I stop to define some terms here? I want to make this clear. An update only makes the game "easier" if it reduces the advantage a skilled player has over a less-skilled player. And I'm going to go back to my example of Smoking Kills and the slayer points update. As I said originally, while on the surface it appears to make things easier, it actually opens up many new layers of decisions and choices that allow the savvy slayer to experience a greater efficiency boost than a random newb:

 

 

 

"Should I get a task from Mazchna and finish more quickly to get faster points, or should I go straight for Duradel tasks for better xp and drops? Should I cancel my so-so task for 30 points and miss out on some rewards? Do I go straight for the slayer helm or do I block my least favorite tasks, or do I go for the slayer rings? When I buy my slayer helm, do I want to leave some points left over to cancel tasks, just in case? If I get a steel dragon task and I'm low on points, is it worth Burthorping and losing my streak, or should I slog through it?"

 

 

 

So once again, faster and easier are not the same thing.

 

 

 

Please, if you think there's a problem with my definition, then point it out and offer a better definition, because there's little to debate unless key terms are properly defined.

[Erewhon2]

Can I stop to define some terms here? I want to make this clear. An update only makes the game "easier" if it reduces the advantage a skilled player has over a less-skilled player.

 

No I disagree with your definition, it has no relevance as to what level your skills are, the dictionary definition of easier is:

not hard or difficult; requiring no great labor or effort

so making things easier also includes reducing what others class as 'tedious' or 'boring' tasks. I'm not saying I don't take advantage of noting crops for example, of course I do. But the question is....where does it stop? Why reduce the supposed 'tedium'? There are other ways to get thrills, you don't have to do boring skills unless you want to (and here is usually where we start touching on the thread about skill capes).

 

And I'm going to go back to my example of Smoking Kills and the slayer points update. As I said originally, while on the surface it appears to make things easier, it actually opens up many new layers of decisions and choices that allow the savvy slayer to experience a greater efficiency boost than a random newb:

I do think this is a good example of where there has at least been some attempt to balance out the game.

 

So once again, faster and easier are not the same thing.

Depends what part of the game it is, some things become faster because of skill development, for example do you remember when you first stated lighting fires? It took ages to light even one pile of logs lol. Certainly xp can become faster as you work up the levels, if you choose to play it that way. But I struggle with understanding the need for the constant 'shortcuts', will we one day end up being able to fletch or smith from noted materials? Just because it is 'tedious'? :shock:

 

So don't respond then. :wall:

 

 

 

Just drop it, he's probably trolling anyway.

What is 'trolling'? And is this directed at both quelmotz and Jrhairychest?

[Lord_Shalaj]

Games are meant to be fun. Not at one instant should you feel fed up or irritated or the whole point of playing the game vanishes. I wouldn't mind if many irritating things were made easier.

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

[Troacctid]

Can I stop to define some terms here? I want to make this clear. An update only makes the game "easier" if it reduces the advantage a skilled player has over a less-skilled player.

 

No I disagree with your definition, it has no relevance as to what level your skills are, the dictionary definition of easier is:

not hard or difficult; requiring no great labor or effort

so making things easier also includes reducing what others class as 'tedious' or 'boring' tasks. I'm not saying I don't take advantage of noting crops for example, of course I do. But the question is....where does it stop? Why reduce the supposed 'tedium'? There are other ways to get thrills, you don't have to do boring skills unless you want to (and here is usually where we start touching on the thread about skill capes).

 

Oh, I forgot that I should have defined "skill" too. #-o

 

 

 

Well for starters, the dictionary definition fits very poorly when discussing a computer game. Remember, the entire game can be done while sitting in a reclining chair, clicking a mouse, and occasionally typing in a few numbers, and most of it consists of mindless repetition (unlike a game like Arcanists, for example). Absolutely not a great labor or effort.

 

 

 

Anyway, I would define "skill" in Runescape in terms of knowledge of the game and the application of that knowledge. A skilled player would not necessarily need high skill levels; rather, he or she would be the sort of player who understands how to train efficiently. Mostly, it has to do with forethought, planning, and analysis.

 

 

 

As for "where it stops," that's a very easy question to answer. It stops when the changes no longer improve the activity. Most changes can be evaluated individually. Don't make the mistake of falling into a slippery slope fallacy; remember that Jagex is very much aware of the sort of thing we're talking about here. Again, look what happened with the Bandos Throne Room.

 

 

 

So once again, faster and easier are not the same thing.

Depends what part of the game it is, some things become faster because of skill development, for example do you remember when you first stated lighting fires? It took ages to light even one pile of logs lol. Certainly xp can become faster as you work up the levels, if you choose to play it that way. But I struggle with understanding the need for the constant 'shortcuts', will we one day end up being able to fletch or smith from noted materials? Just because it is 'tedious'? :shock:

 

There are balance issues inherent in allowing players to do things with stackable items. We've seen this a lot with alching, with players bringing huge stacks of alching materials into minigames and freeloading, for example. To top it off, it doesn't even make sense within the context of the game--bank notes are pieces of parchment. You can't fletch them into pieces of parchment with different pictures on them. And you shouldn't be able to use high alchemy on one kind of parchment and get more gold than another kind of parchment. (Ha, remember the Scabarite notes? "The deliveries of timber we were expecting have arrived, but are in the form of bank certificates. While we could burn them, I fear it will not be much use.")

 

 

 

As such, I would oppose such a change, but there's no evidence that such an update would ever occur. Again, watch out for the slippery slope fallacy here.

 

 

 

It's worth pointing out that we can already fletch stackable materials by making bolts or arrows, and there have been balance issues there as well.

 

 

 

So don't respond then. :wall:

 

 

 

Just drop it, he's probably trolling anyway.

What is 'trolling'? And is this directed at both quelmotz and Jrhairychest?

 

Trolling is posting deliberately stupid or inciteful things in order to elicit a response or disrupt the forum. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet).

[Guest]

 

Oh, I forgot that I should have defined "skill" too. #-o

 

 

 

Well for starters, the dictionary definition fits very poorly when discussing a computer game. Remember, the entire game can be done while sitting in a reclining chair, clicking a mouse, and occasionally typing in a few numbers, and most of it consists of mindless repetition (unlike a game like Arcanists, for example). Absolutely not a great labor or effort.

 

 

 

So are you saying that RS is not a challenge for you? If so, then how come so many players would disagree with that as they play the game, enjoy leveling etc. There is also the fact you went for easier skills. On the one hand you say this game is not difficult, on the other you've trained 2 of out your 3 99's which are 1 click skills. If you don't think RS is a challenge then why do you play, and why do you post here about it? This is also the same player that considers firemaking a 'difficult' skill for mouse clicking dexterity.

 

 

Anyway, I would define "skill" in Runescape in terms of knowledge of the game and the application of that knowledge. A skilled player would not necessarily need high skill levels; rather, he or she would be the sort of player who understands how to train efficiently. Mostly, it has to do with forethought, planning, and analysis.

 

 

 

I agree in part. After all I've 90m in cash alone in the bank all through thieving and it served me well in doing crafting to 99, simply because I went for markets that weren't saturated unlike some other skills. I love doing it. What I don't agree with is the fact that you think there is no skill application to grinding. If that was so then more players would be much higher skills and have the stomach for that grind. I personally see no problem in this and am happy to do it if it gets me what I want.

 

 

 

As for "where it stops," that's a very easy question to answer. It stops when the changes no longer improve the activity. Most changes can be evaluated individually. Don't make the mistake of falling into a slippery slope fallacy; remember that Jagex is very much aware of the sort of thing we're talking about here. Again, look what happened with the Bandos Throne Room.

 

 

 

If what you say is true here, then Jagex would not need to defend themselves on the game becoming easier. Slippery slope is not a fallacy if the game becomes so dumbed down that combat, skills or anything else no longer become a challenge.

 

 

 

 

There are balance issues inherent in allowing players to do things with stackable items. We've seen this a lot with alching, with players bringing huge stacks of alching materials into minigames and freeloading, for example. To top it off, it doesn't even make sense within the context of the game--bank notes are pieces of parchment. You can't fletch them into pieces of parchment with different pictures on them. And you shouldn't be able to use high alchemy on one kind of parchment and get more gold than another kind of parchment. (Ha, remember the Scabarite notes? "The deliveries of timber we were expecting have arrived, but are in the form of bank certificates. While we could burn them, I fear it will not be much use.")

 

 

 

As such, I would oppose such a change, but there's no evidence that such an update would ever occur. Again, watch out for the slippery slope fallacy here.

 

 

 

It's worth pointing out that we can already fletch stackable materials by making bolts or arrows, and there have been balance issues there as well.

 

The trouble is this is all your own opinion and you are no expert. If my points about a slippery slope are unfounded then how come players actually point out to Jagex about this issue? No-one anticipated the updates about PP and the musicians until they were in the news or they were just done. Same with noted farming produce. Some of this is very new and there is nothing stopping Jagex producing more updates of this kind. The further it goes, the more things become devalued and I am against that.

 

 

 

 

Trolling is posting deliberately stupid or inciteful things in order to elicit a response or disrupt the forum. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet).

 

 

 

:-s Who are you calling stupid or inciteful?

[Troacctid]

 

Oh, I forgot that I should have defined "skill" too. #-o

 

 

 

Well for starters, the dictionary definition fits very poorly when discussing a computer game. Remember, the entire game can be done while sitting in a reclining chair, clicking a mouse, and occasionally typing in a few numbers, and most of it consists of mindless repetition (unlike a game like Arcanists, for example). Absolutely not a great labor or effort.

 

 

 

So are you saying that RS is not a challenge for you? If so, then how come so many players would disagree with that as they play the game, enjoy leveling etc. There is also the fact you went for easier skills. On the one hand you say this game is not difficult, on the other you've trained 2 of out your 3 99's which are 1 click skills. If you don't think RS is a challenge then why do you play, and why do you post here about it? This is also the same player that considers firemaking a 'difficult' skill for mouse clicking dexterity.

 

To repeat, if you disagree with my definitions for difficulty and skill, then please say why they're inaccurate and present a more fitting definition.

 

 

 

I doubt that "many players disagree" with me when I say playing video games is not a great labor or effort. "Hoo boy, what a rough day of sitting around playing video games! I need a vacation!"

 

 

 

As for firemaking, remember my definitions. A skilled firemaker who can burn backwards without slowing down will be able to train significantly faster than someone who only knows how to burn in a straight line. Hence there exists a significant gap between skilled players and the newbs. Remember also that I made very clear that I don't think any skills are very difficult to begin with, and if I recall my exact words on this issue were along the lines of "firemaking is more difficult than it gets credit for."

 

 

 

Now, if you would kindly shut up about my skill levels. Thank you.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I would define "skill" in Runescape in terms of knowledge of the game and the application of that knowledge. A skilled player would not necessarily need high skill levels; rather, he or she would be the sort of player who understands how to train efficiently. Mostly, it has to do with forethought, planning, and analysis.

 

 

 

I agree in part. After all I've 90m in cash alone in the bank all through thieving and it served me well in doing crafting to 99, simply because I went for markets that weren't saturated unlike some other skills. I love doing it. What I don't agree with is the fact that you think there is no skill application to grinding. If that was so then more players would be much higher skills and have the stomach for that grind. I personally see no problem in this and am happy to do it if it gets me what I want.

 

Again, if you want to contest my definition of skill, please do so directly. If grinding is skillful, how are you defining skill? Because anyone can grind. If grinding takes skill, then robots are more skilled at computer games than human beings... :-s

 

 

 

As for "where it stops," that's a very easy question to answer. It stops when the changes no longer improve the activity. Most changes can be evaluated individually. Don't make the mistake of falling into a slippery slope fallacy; remember that Jagex is very much aware of the sort of thing we're talking about here. Again, look what happened with the Bandos Throne Room.

 

 

 

If what you say is true here, then Jagex would not need to defend themselves on the game becoming easier. Slippery slope is not a fallacy if the game becomes so dumbed down that combat, skills or anything else no longer become a challenge.

 

Hold on a moment, you're suggesting here that we're already at the bottom of the slippery slope. Really? Really? The worst-case scenario is what we already have right now?

 

 

 

You're right, the slippery slope is not a fallacy when used to describe the past. But we're not talking about the past, are we?

 

 

 

The trouble is this is all your own opinion and you are no expert. If my points about a slippery slope are unfounded then how come players actually point out to Jagex about this issue? No-one anticipated the updates about PP and the musicians until they were in the news or they were just done. Same with noted farming produce. Some of this is very new and there is nothing stopping Jagex producing more updates of this kind. The further it goes, the more things become devalued and I am against that.

 

...O-kay... :-s

 

 

 

None of this seems to be related to anything I was talking about, so...yeah...

 

 

 

Could you be any less articulate without typing literal gibberish? Because I don't understand what you're trying to say at all. Get to the point, maybe?

[Erewhon2]

I don't get bored with 'grinding', I find it relaxing, especially after a hard day at work, that is the whole point I am making!!!!! I don't want more shortcuts to get rid of 'tedium' I like it! It may not be skillful, it may be lots of button clicking....so what? The point I'm stating...is if you don't like it, go do some other skill or play the game the way it suits you. Don't suggest cutting out the parts that others enjoy because they bore you, thats selfish, just because you want to get to 99 faster. Now hopefully I have put that nice and simply. :pray:

[Troacctid]

I don't get bored with 'grinding', I find it relaxing, especially after a hard day at work, that is the whole point I am making!!!!! I don't want more shortcuts to get rid of 'tedium' I like it! It may not be skillful, it may be lots of button clicking....so what? The point I'm stating...is if you don't like it, go do some other skill or play the game the way it suits you. Don't suggest cutting out the parts that others enjoy because they bore you, thats selfish, just because you want to get to 99 faster. Now hopefully I have put that nice and simply. :pray:

 

I wouldn't worry about grinding going away. The level-up system is an integral part of the game and it isn't going anywhere. There's always going to be grinding involved in getting a high level.

 

 

 

The changes are largely to get rid of stupid annoying things like having to click each bone individually to the ectofuntus grinder. For example, some people despise gargoyle tasks because of the way you need to manually use a rock hammer on them when they're about to die. It just kind of sucks. Would you truly be against having the rock hammer be used automatically once the gargoyle you're attacking is at low health?

[Guest]

 

To repeat, if you disagree with my definitions for difficulty and skill, then please say why they're inaccurate and present a more fitting definition.

 

 

 

I doubt that "many players disagree" with me when I say playing video games is not a great labor or effort. "Hoo boy, what a rough day of sitting around playing video games! I need a vacation!"

 

 

 

You didn't answer this point at all. Your definition of difficulty doesn't quite fit. I've repeated before that time investment, cost and the ability to grind the levels can be classed as difficulty in itself. The more difficult the challenge, the more satisfied the player in the achievement.

 

 

 

As Erewhon2 pointed out, many players enjoy this challenge and you missed the point that players actually enjoyit, otherwise they would not play or try to level, nor feel the achievements in skills considered more difficult to level such as RC. No-one would play RS if they didn't enjoy it and enjoyed the grind of levelling.

 

 

 

As for firemaking, remember my definitions. A skilled firemaker who can burn backwards without slowing down will be able to train significantly faster than someone who only knows how to burn in a straight line. Hence there exists a significant gap between skilled players and the newbs. Remember also that I made very clear that I don't think any skills are very difficult to begin with, and if I recall my exact words on this issue were along the lines of "firemaking is more difficult than it gets credit for."

 

 

 

It doesn't take long to get used to the particulars of any skill. But it takes mettle to stick to it. Thats the difference.

 

 

 

Now, if you would kindly shut up about my skill levels. Thank you.

 

I'd say they were very relevant as you claim skills are easy on the one hand, but you chose the more simpler ones as defined by myself above. Hence you talk the talk but don't walk the walk when the going gets tough. It really doesn't do for you to present a superior front on this issue as if I don't know what I'm talking about as you have invested a considerable amount of time in a game you supposedly find simple, yet want to choose the simplest options.

 

 

 

Again, if you want to contest my definition of skill, please do so directly. If grinding is skillful, how are you defining skill? Because anyone can grind. If grinding takes skill, then robots are more skilled at computer games than human beings... :-s

 

You talk about the grind as if its a problem. It isn't for anyone who enjoys playing the game as I explained above. Who says grinding is actually a problem?

 

 

 

Hold on a moment, you're suggesting here that we're already at the bottom of the slippery slope. Really? Really? The worst-case scenario is what we already have right now?

 

 

 

You're right, the slippery slope is not a fallacy when used to describe the past. But we're not talking about the past, are we?

 

 

 

No, I believe that is you saying that in this post. I said we will end up there if ridiculous updates keep occuring and I have a problem with a game I love lessening its challenge.

 

 

 

Not quite sure where you're going with 'the past'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

...O-kay... :-s

 

 

 

None of this seems to be related to anything I was talking about, so...yeah...

 

Fine, avoid the issue. Your choice.

 

 

 

Could you be any less articulate without typing literal gibberish? Because I don't understand what you're trying to say at all. Get to the point, maybe?

 

 

 

I believe you were referring to a trolling issue before, and you declined to answer the question so don't make the sly little comments unless you wish to directly accuse anyone of anything. Also, practice what you preach in not trolling please

[Erewhon2]

The changes are largely to get rid of stupid annoying things like having to click each bone individually to the ectofuntus grinder. For example, some people despise gargoyle tasks because of the way you need to manually use a rock hammer on them when they're about to die. It just kind of sucks. Would you truly be against having the rock hammer be used automatically once the gargoyle you're attacking is at low health?

This is again one of the points I am making, if I find it boring I won't do it....that simple. I don't do the ecto grinder because I don't particularly like it. If I work on my prayer I do it another way, enjoyment is more important than speed for me. And this is where we lead back into the debate, people only aiming for the fastest way to 99 a skill, and totally losing sight of the 'game' of rs. :shame:

 

 

It doesn't take long to get used to the particulars of any skill. But it takes mettle to stick to it. Thats the difference.

Especially if you opt for a slower method of skilling up, and being able to have variety is what is important. It just seems that attention spans are so limited with many people, they want instant gratification and permanent stimulation otherwise they are bored.

[Troacctid]

The changes are largely to get rid of stupid annoying things like having to click each bone individually to the ectofuntus grinder. For example, some people despise gargoyle tasks because of the way you need to manually use a rock hammer on them when they're about to die. It just kind of sucks. Would you truly be against having the rock hammer be used automatically once the gargoyle you're attacking is at low health?

This is again one of the points I am making, if I find it boring I won't do it....that simple. I don't do the ecto grinder because I don't particularly like it. If I work on my prayer I do it another way, enjoyment is more important than speed for me. And this is where we lead back into the debate, people only aiming for the fastest way to 99 a skill, and totally losing sight of the 'game' of rs. :shame:

 

 

It doesn't take long to get used to the particulars of any skill. But it takes mettle to stick to it. Thats the difference.

Especially if you opt for a slower method of skilling up, and being able to have variety is what is important. It just seems that attention spans are so limited with many people, they want instant gratification and permanent stimulation otherwise they are bored.

 

Oddly, enough, Stormveritas discussed this very same topic in the Tip.It Times this week, if you haven't already read it.

 

 

 

Anyway, if part of the game is so un-fun that everybody avoids it, how is it a bad thing if that area is updated to make it fun so that people don't avoid it? I don't see your argument. "It doesn't matter that parts of the game are boring because I don't care about those parts, only the parts I want to do; therefore, people should stop playing the boring parts of the game." That's what I'm getting... :?

 

 

 

If some aspect of the game is boring or otherwise crappy, that is a bad thing.

 

 

 

I don't know where you got "people only aiming for the fastest way to a 99 skill, and totally losing sight of the game" out of any of this, either. It was never the topic of this debate and I never brought up anything about it. :-s And the two things are separate issues as well.

[Erewhon2]

If some aspect of the game is boring or otherwise crappy, that is a bad thing.

My point is that it may be boring for some, not for others. Everyone has different tastes, for example I really enjoy thieving and farming, other people hate it, but still do it.....aiming for 99...and demanding that it is made easier and the grind is taken away....why? I dislike summoning, so I don't do it very often. Something might be "boring or cappy" for you or me, but someone else could really enjoy that part of the game.

I don't know where you got "people only aiming for the fastest way to a 99 skill' date=' and totally losing sight of the game" out of any of this, either. It was never the topic of this debate and I never brought up anything about it. :-s And the two things are separate issues as well.[/quote']This is relevant, when we are talking about shortcuts, as we have discussed in previous posts, i.e noted materials and pyramid plunder, they make achieving 99 so much faster and easier, and the topic is "how easy do you want it?"

 

I'll check out the tip.it times later :thumbup: I have just read that piece, it is excellent! Although it tries to look at things from both sides, he really does capture the essence of what I am trying to say.....stop and enjoy the game! Play it in a way that suits you, remember you don't have to rush everything, and as he says.....'grinding' suits some players (like me lol). :thumbsup:

[Troacctid]

If some aspect of the game is boring or otherwise crappy, that is a bad thing.

My point is that it may be boring for some, not for others. Everyone has different tastes, for example I really enjoy thieving and farming, other people hate it, but still do it.....aiming for 99...and demanding that it is made easier and the grind is taken away....why? I dislike summoning, so I don't do it very often. Something might be "boring or cappy" for you or me, but someone else could really enjoy that part of the game.

I don't know where you got "people only aiming for the fastest way to a 99 skill' date=' and totally losing sight of the game" out of any of this, either. It was never the topic of this debate and I never brought up anything about it. :-s And the two things are separate issues as well.[/quote']This is relevant, when we are talking about shortcuts, as we have discussed in previous posts, i.e noted materials and pyramid plunder, they make achieving 99 so much faster and easier, and the topic is "how easy do you want it?"

 

I'll check out the tip.it times later :thumbup:

 

Okay, so not everybody thinks it's a problem. Some people apparently enjoy clicking individually on each gargoyle, clicking three times on a redundant interface to open up a buy offer on the GE, and hopping worlds for ten minutes to find an empty red chinchompa spot. I don't know who those people are.

 

 

 

Take those people who enjoy the ectofuntus. Do you really think what they enjoyed about it was the laborious individual clicking of the buckets to the slime pool and the bones to the grinder? Typically the sort of upgrades we're talking about were implemented because those people who enjoyed the content in question demanded it. It was ectofuntus-worshipers who brought the grind-x issue to Jagex's attention in the first place. It was the cooks who asked for cook-x and the smiths who asked for smith-x. The people who enjoy something are the ones who care most about improving it.

 

 

 

In fact, making skills faster is usually totally unrelated to these fixes. The main complaint about string-x was that it made fletching slower. And nothing to do with ectofuntus-ing is ever going to make it faster than a gilded altar.

 

 

 

As I've already discussed at length, the updates that actually make skills faster rarely make them easier.

[Guest]

 

Okay, so not everybody thinks it's a problem. Some people apparently enjoy clicking individually on each gargoyle, clicking three times on a redundant interface to open up a buy offer on the GE, and hopping worlds for ten minutes to find an empty red chinchompa spot. I don't know who those people are.

 

 

Its part of the game itself. If you don't enjoy doing those things then why do you play at all? Is it laziness or you want everything to be done in a single click? Is there a problem with a little competition in game to chimpy spots or do you want it all to yourself?

 

 

 

 

Take those people who enjoy the ectofuntus. Do you really think what they enjoyed about it was the laborious individual clicking of the buckets to the slime pool and the bones to the grinder? Typically the sort of upgrades we're talking about were implemented because those people who enjoyed the content in question demanded it. It was ectofuntus-worshipers who brought the grind-x issue to Jagex's attention in the first place. It was the cooks who asked for cook-x and the smiths who asked for smith-x. The people who enjoy something are the ones who care most about improving it.

 

 

 

In fact, making skills faster is usually totally unrelated to these fixes. The main complaint about string-x was that it made fletching slower. And nothing to do with ectofuntus-ing is ever going to make it faster than a gilded altar.

 

 

 

As I've already discussed at length, the updates that actually make skills faster rarely make them easier.

 

 

Take it as part of the game. The less interaction you have the more boring it actually gets. I prefer a game that demands a bit more attention than click and then wait while I watch some TV. If you find it labourious, again I ask why you play as it sounds to me like you don't enjoy it?

 

 

 

I personally love the game, and I don't mind whatever hoops I have to go through to do things.

[Troacctid]

 

Okay, so not everybody thinks it's a problem. Some people apparently enjoy clicking individually on each gargoyle, clicking three times on a redundant interface to open up a buy offer on the GE, and hopping worlds for ten minutes to find an empty red chinchompa spot. I don't know who those people are.

 

 

Its part of the game itself. If you don't enjoy doing those things then why do you play at all? Is it laziness or you want everything to be done in a single click? Is there a problem with a little competition in game to chimpy spots or do you want it all to yourself?

 

...I stand corrected. Apparently I know at least one of those people. :ugeek:

[Guest]

 

Okay, so not everybody thinks it's a problem. Some people apparently enjoy clicking individually on each gargoyle, clicking three times on a redundant interface to open up a buy offer on the GE, and hopping worlds for ten minutes to find an empty red chinchompa spot. I don't know who those people are.

 

 

Its part of the game itself. If you don't enjoy doing those things then why do you play at all? Is it laziness or you want everything to be done in a single click? Is there a problem with a little competition in game to chimpy spots or do you want it all to yourself?

 

...I stand corrected. Apparently I know at least one of those people. :ugeek:

 

 

 

That's evading the questions and the point, and I don't see everyone leaving RS in droves because of these things either.

[Troacctid]

 

Okay, so not everybody thinks it's a problem. Some people apparently enjoy clicking individually on each gargoyle, clicking three times on a redundant interface to open up a buy offer on the GE, and hopping worlds for ten minutes to find an empty red chinchompa spot. I don't know who those people are.

 

 

Its part of the game itself. If you don't enjoy doing those things then why do you play at all? Is it laziness or you want everything to be done in a single click? Is there a problem with a little competition in game to chimpy spots or do you want it all to yourself?

 

...I stand corrected. Apparently I know at least one of those people. :ugeek:

 

 

 

That's evading the questions and the point, and I don't see everyone leaving RS in droves because of these things either.

 

Uh, yeah. Because they're not a big deal. Duh.

 

 

 

I'm not going to quit playing Elder Dragon Highlander because I can't legally use a general that has a mana symbol in its text box that isn't in its mana cost; doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed anyway. Just because I happen to have a passionate disagreement with one part of the status quo doesn't mean I can't still have fun generating massive armies of creatures with my Rhys the Redeemed elf deck.

 

 

 

Besides, none of this addresses my key points anyway, so none of it has any bearing on their validity...there's nothing to evade. =;

[Erewhon2]

Okay, so not everybody thinks it's a problem. Some people apparently enjoy clicking individually on each gargoyle, clicking three times on a redundant interface to open up a buy offer on the GE, and hopping worlds for ten minutes to find an empty red chinchompa spot. I don't know who those people are.

 

 

 

Its part of the game itself. If you don't enjoy doing those things then why do you play at all? Is it laziness or you want everything to be done in a single click? Is there a problem with a little competition in game to chimpy spots or do you want it all to yourself?

 

 

 

...I stand corrected. Apparently I know at least one of those people. :ugeek:

 

 

 

You know at least 3 who have posted on this thread alone, never mind all those I talk to when I am *cough* 'grinding', who are also happily slogging their time away on skills that give them pleasure and make them money.

 

That's evading the questions and the point, and I don't see everyone leaving RS in droves because of these things either.

 

 

 

Uh, yeah. Because they're not a big deal. Duh.

Exactly! So why change what works? If its not 'a big deal' then why do people keep asking for the shortcuts? Obviously for some it is a big deal, and their impatience means they get bored easily and want to level up faster and easier. I still say if you don't like it do something else. Your example of hunting red chinchompas is good, as it is so unnecessary to hunt them unless you particularly wish to level up fast and easy. I would say....go hunt something else that is more enjoyable if it bores or irritates you. But 'heaven forbid'! that might mean it will take longer to get to 99 or make the next 500 mill! :shock:

[Erewhon2]

Okay, so not everybody thinks it's a problem. Some people apparently enjoy clicking individually on each gargoyle, clicking three times on a redundant interface to open up a buy offer on the GE, and hopping worlds for ten minutes to find an empty red chinchompa spot. I don't know who those people are.

 

 

 

Its part of the game itself. If you don't enjoy doing those things then why do you play at all? Is it laziness or you want everything to be done in a single click? Is there a problem with a little competition in game to chimpy spots or do you want it all to yourself?

 

 

 

...I stand corrected. Apparently I know at least one of those people. :ugeek:

 

 

 

You know at least 3 who have posted on this thread alone, never mind all those I talk to when I am *cough* 'grinding', who are also happily slogging their time away on skills that give them pleasure and make them money.

 

That's evading the questions and the point, and I don't see everyone leaving RS in droves because of these things either.

 

 

 

Uh, yeah. Because they're not a big deal. Duh.

Exactly! So why change what works? If its not 'a big deal' then why do people keep asking for the shortcuts? Obviously for some it is a big deal, and their impatience means they get bored easily and want to level up faster and easier. I still say if you don't like it do something else. Your example of hunting red chinchompas is good, as it is so unnecessary to hunt them unless you particularly wish to level up fast and easy. I would say....go hunt something else that is more enjoyable if it bores or irritates you. But 'heaven forbid'! that might mean it will take longer to get to 99 or make the next 500 mill! :shock:

[Guest]

 

Uh, yeah. Because they're not a big deal. Duh.

 

 

 

I'm not going to quit playing Elder Dragon Highlander because I can't legally use a general that has a mana symbol in its text box that isn't in its mana cost; doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed anyway. Just because I happen to have a passionate disagreement with one part of the status quo doesn't mean I can't still have fun generating massive armies of creatures with my Rhys the Redeemed elf deck.

 

 

:-s

 

 

 

 

Besides, none of this addresses my key points anyway, so none of it has any bearing on their validity...there's nothing to evade. =;

 

You made the points, I answer them and ask why. They're your points so if you have problem with validity you should ask yourself.

[Guest]

 

Uh, yeah. Because they're not a big deal. Duh.

 

 

 

I'm not going to quit playing Elder Dragon Highlander because I can't legally use a general that has a mana symbol in its text box that isn't in its mana cost; doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed anyway. Just because I happen to have a passionate disagreement with one part of the status quo doesn't mean I can't still have fun generating massive armies of creatures with my Rhys the Redeemed elf deck.

 

 

:-s

 

 

 

 

Besides, none of this addresses my key points anyway, so none of it has any bearing on their validity...there's nothing to evade. =;

 

You made the points, I answer them and ask why. They're your points so if you have problem with validity you should ask yourself.