How Easy Do You Want It?

[Beebel]

To me it sounds like you played it the way you wanted to play it by levelling a little at a time rather than trying to do it in one chunk. Sounds good to me.

Yes, I play RS for fun so doing one thing for too long doesn't appeal to me, so I like to have long term goals to achieve over time.

 

This kind of thing also annoys me, because you never know when or how someone did a particular thing, and after being told countless times that 99 Firemaking is an easy 99, it does bug me, considering for me, it was a challenge, whilst 99 fishing was not. It all comes down to the judgements people give because of the updates. Cooking never used to be easy/fast, neither did fletching, this all happened over time, and now the older players that did everything the hard way have to live with it.

In terms of a challenge firemaking is easily buyable and fairly fast which it's why its become what it is and explains its commonality so on that point I disagree. Are you finding it a challenge because it requires more user interaction than the fishing skill? With a little reasoning, the cooking and fletching skills have gone the same way as firemaking i.e. buyable skills.

Yes, firemaking, fletching and cooking are buyable skills, but, firemaking was my first 99, my highest skill before it was under 70. Also my monetary situation on RS was what you would expect of someone that would be about level 60, so buying the whole skill wasn't an option to me back then; I had to earn all the money for it slowly so that I would be able to afford it, plus the "more user interaction" which clashes with my gaming personality.

What I'm getting at, is that one cannot know for sure what situation the person getting the 99 was in when they were training it, so even if the easiest and effective ways for training that certain skill are available, they had to take another route. For example, a level 3 skiller going for 99 agility would have to use the wilderness course, even though ape atoll was available to other players, and this level 3 player could decide to try out combat after 99 agility, and people would have expected them to use ape atoll, because of their higher combat, and thus not have to had deal with revenants.

 

So I think whilst RuneScape is getting easier, as long as there is some concept with some difficulty for the players that enjoy a challenge, this is okay, but in terms of skilling, the challenge is being taken out of skills slowly, but steadily.

So I take it you're against this? What would be your solution?

I think that RuneScape should be divided into two categories, for updates, so that some parts of the game are made easier, for new players to get into, and for other parts of the game to still get updated, but updated more so there is a variety of difficult or challenging ways to do something, rather than making new ways which get easier and easier. That way both kinds of players are satisfied, the new players get 'easy' skills/minigames/quests and the rewards from those, while more experienced players still have a variety of activities to do that give them a challenge. It would be like the Vinesweeper minigame as an addition to Farming, but with other skills. Similar to the slayer points additions to Slayer, except you still have to complete slayer tasks for the tiny xp rewards. Since there are much less challenging skills than 'easy' skills, and new skills take so long to develop, plus when a skill isn't easy enough for most of the RuneScape community, it gets flamed, this means that Jagex can't just add a new skill to the challenging side, because, as seen by the release of Summoning, the majority of players disliked the difficulty it presented.

This means that to give more variety to the existing experienced players, Jagex needs to work off the current challenging skills, and add to them to make them more enjoyable, while still just as difficult as they were before the update.

I don't mind on the most part on how easy RuneScape is becoming, but once the challenge is completely taken out of this game, I doubt I'll be playing much longer, which is why I think that some aspects of RuneScape need to stay slow, and 'difficult'.

[Erewhon2]

I think that RuneScape should be divided into two categories, for updates, so that some parts of the game are made easier, for new players to get into, and for other parts of the game to still get updated, but updated more so there is a variety of difficult or challenging ways to do something, rather than making new ways which get easier and easier. That way both kinds of players are satisfied, the new players get 'easy' skills/minigames/quests and the rewards from those, while more experienced players still have a variety of activities to do that give them a challenge. It would be like the Vinesweeper minigame as an addition to Farming, but with other skills. Similar to the slayer points additions to Slayer, except you still have to complete slayer tasks for the tiny xp rewards. Since there are much less challenging skills than 'easy' skills, and new skills take so long to develop, plus when a skill isn't easy enough for most of the RuneScape community, it gets flamed, this means that Jagex can't just add a new skill to the challenging side, because, as seen by the release of Summoning, the majority of players disliked the difficulty it presented.

This means that to give more variety to the existing experienced players, Jagex needs to work off the current challenging skills, and add to them to make them more enjoyable, while still just as difficult as they were before the update.

I don't mind on the most part on how easy RuneScape is becoming, but once the challenge is completely taken out of this game, I doubt I'll be playing much longer, which is why I think that some aspects of RuneScape need to stay slow, and 'difficult'.

I really like this post....it reflects some of what I have been saying all along. I am happy for updates, some are really good like collecting slayer points and the relevant quests. For me it has always been about variety and challenge, I don't always do things the quickest or easiest way, I play the game in a way that suits me and gives me the greatest enjoyment. This includes sometimes multi-tasking across a number of skills and activities because of creating that variety.

 

I do take offence at those who constantly flame Jagex because they want everything to be easier, usually for the purpose of obtaining a 99 as quickly as possible instead of stopping to actually enjoy the game, thats what has been lost for a number of players. I am concerned if Jagex continually give into these demands we will lose the characteristics of RS gameplay, skill capes will lose their impact/status and people will be demanding that Jagex 'entertain' them with instructions as to how to have 'fun'. The skill in RS is doing exactly as you have done....playing the game in a way that gives you the most enjoyment. :thumbsup:

[quelmotz]

I do take offence at those who constantly flame Jagex because they want everything to be easier, usually for the purpose of obtaining a 99 as quickly as possible instead of stopping to actually enjoy the game, thats what has been lost for a number of players. I am concerned if Jagex continually give into these demands we will lose the characteristics of RS gameplay, skill capes will lose their impact/status and people will be demanding that Jagex 'entertain' them with instructions as to how to have 'fun'. The skill in RS is doing exactly as you have done....playing the game in a way that gives you the most enjoyment. :thumbsup:

 

If your post wasn't directed at me, then ignore the paragraphs below this sentence.

 

I don't flame Jagex. I rant and offer suggestions to improve the game in a way that it doesn't make the game "easy", but BALANCED, for example the F2P combat triangle and melee weapons.

 

I don't want a skillcape or 99. I don't give a [bleep] about "bragging rights" and status. I also want to enjoy the game. What I'm saying is the game will naturally become easie/faster/more convenient as a part of progress, regardless of how much you rant against it.

 

Jagex might be making the game faster by putting "cook X" and such, but this doesn't make the game easier as in requiring less skill. You've already been disproved on the fact that easier=faster by troacctid. You still need to find a suitable and fast method to train. Ok, so there might be guides telling you how, but Jagex didn't create them - players did. Even if Jagex created them, most of their guides don't offer the most optimal method of training.

 

What Jagex has been doing is making the game FASTER and less tedious so it better fulfills its role as a game - for fun. People don't like grinding - they want fun. By making less tedious and tiring grinding and more interesting things into the game, they increase their business. Most people are simple-minded and they don't know "fun" unless it's thrown in their face. Most people in this thread are in the minority. And guess who Jagex caters to as a profit-oriented organisation, i.e. business?

 

Jagex can only cater to a portion of the community, not everyone. As such they will obviously cater to the majority, which increases their profit. We voluntarily chose to decline "fun" being thrown in your face, so it's not Jagex's fault for catering to the majority so they can earn more $$$.

[Beebel]

I rant and offer suggestions to improve the game in a way that it doesn't make the game "easy", but BALANCED, for example the F2P combat triangle and melee weapons.

What I'm saying is the game will naturally become easie/faster/more convenient as a part of progress, regardless of how much you rant against it.

To balance the game, you have to either make the hard aspects easier, or the easy aspects harder, and because, as you said later on in your post, the majority would likely complain if any aspect of the game was made harder, leaving the only way to balance to game is to make the diffficult/disadvantaged/more boring aspects of the game to be easier/more advantaged/more fun. Also, because of the whole majority issue, major new content such as skills cannot be added into the game, because of the issue that the majority of players would want an easier/faster/fun skill, with benefits for them as the majority. This is why you believe that RuneScape will become easier/faster/more convenient, because the majority wants easier/faster/more convenient, but, the majority also wants fun, so while training a skill may be harder/slower/less convenient, they could prefer doing that to something considered easier/faster/more convenient. These players are the minority in this argument, as you have said, but, you can update a skill without making it easier or harder, and making it enjoyable, by adding something new, creating a variety.

Because of this, more challenging aspects of the game can only really be added as higher levelled NPCs for combat, or additions to the few difficult/challenging skills left in the game.

 

What Jagex has been doing is making the game FASTER and less tedious so it better fulfills its role as a game - for fun. People don't like grinding - they want fun. By making less tedious and tiring grinding and more interesting things into the game, they increase their business.

Your definition of grinding would be doing the same thing over and over to train a skill, correct? By adding more methods to train the same skill, this would give variety, making the game more interesting, without making it easier. These are the kinds of updates I think Jagex should be working on, more ways to get the same result, but at the same speed, so people can choose their own preference when training, much the same way as hunter is set out. I find the xp rates to be similar for different creatures you can hunt, so when I was training hunter, I hunted swamp lizards, instead of falconry, because it didn't appeal to me. This can also give the balance you want the game to have, while also making RuneScape more fun without giving more advantages to newer players, apart from of course, making skilling more fun.

 

Jagex can only cater to a portion of the community, not everyone. As such they will obviously cater to the majority, which increases their profit. We voluntarily chose to decline "fun" being thrown in your face, so it's not Jagex's fault for catering to the majority so they can earn more $$$.

As the majority of the RS community matures in their playing, they will run out of challenges and things to do, so they will leave. This means that Jagex also need to think of updates for more experienced players to keep the current players interested, and keep their flow of cash running. Sure, more players will be joining all the time, but these players will most likely talk to the more experienced players, and figure out how to skill/quest/train efficiently, leaving them as experienced players in a shorter amount of time, still lacking any real challenge at the higher levels. Giving a larger variety of challenge needs to be done so Jagex "can earn more $$$." for a longer period of time. Not only would it satisfy the current minority, but the current majority in the future. The minority of us players now that enjoy a challenge will always be growing, and Jagex needs to do its part in satisifying us as paying members.

[quelmotz]

Good to see a post that isn't chuck-full of sarcasm and insults for a change.

 

To balance the game, you have to either make the hard aspects easier, or the easy aspects harder, and because, as you said later on in your post, the majority would likely complain if any aspect of the game was made harder, leaving the only way to balance to game is to make the diffficult/disadvantaged/more boring aspects of the game to be easier/more advantaged/more fun. Also, because of the whole majority issue, major new content such as skills cannot be added into the game, because of the issue that the majority of players would want an easier/faster/fun skill, with benefits for them as the majority. This is why you believe that RuneScape will become easier/faster/more convenient, because the majority wants easier/faster/more convenient, but, the majority also wants fun, so while training a skill may be harder/slower/less convenient, they could prefer doing that to something considered easier/faster/more convenient. These players are the minority in this argument, as you have said, but, you can update a skill without making it easier or harder, and making it enjoyable, by adding something new, creating a variety.

Because of this, more challenging aspects of the game can only really be added as higher levelled NPCs for combat, or additions to the few difficult/challenging skills left in the game.

 

I believe balance does not only deal with ease of gaming. E.g. regarding the F2P combat triangle, which has nothing to do with how easy RS is, and balancing crushing/stabbing weapons, which also does NOT make the game easier/harder, but just provides different ways to train, e.g. using crush weapons to kill plated opponents instead of the same old scimitar.

 

I don't understand what you mean by skills cannot be implemented because the majority wants easy/fun/fast skills. A new skill can be easy to train too, though most of the later skills introduced are quite difficult skills.

 

I heard Jagex was planning to introduce a new skill to RS, for both F2P players and P2P players. I don't know whether it is going to be hard/easy, but anyhow it proves your point that Jagex cannot implement new skills wrong.

 

Your definition of grinding would be doing the same thing over and over to train a skill, correct? By adding more methods to train the same skill, this would give variety, making the game more interesting, without making it easier. These are the kinds of updates I think Jagex should be working on, more ways to get the same result, but at the same speed, so people can choose their own preference when training, much the same way as hunter is set out. I find the xp rates to be similar for different creatures you can hunt, so when I was training hunter, I hunted swamp lizards, instead of falconry, because it didn't appeal to me. This can also give the balance you want the game to have, while also making RuneScape more fun without giving more advantages to newer players, apart from of course, making skilling more fun.

 

Interesting point.

 

Variety is one way to gain the approval of players, but making a skill easier does the same thing with less effort. You have to type hundreds of pages of codes to create a few new ways to train, although it has the almost the same effect as perhaps a page of code to implement a "(train)-x" option.

 

Perhaps Jagex doesn't want to spend so much effort and time to please the players? I mean they also have plenty of other updates to work on too.

 

As the majority of the RS community matures in their playing, they will run out of challenges and things to do, so they will leave. This means that Jagex also need to think of updates for more experienced players to keep the current players interested, and keep their flow of cash running. Sure, more players will be joining all the time, but these players will most likely talk to the more experienced players, and figure out how to skill/quest/train efficiently, leaving them as experienced players in a shorter amount of time, still lacking any real challenge at the higher levels. Giving a larger variety of challenge needs to be done so Jagex "can earn more $$$." for a longer period of time. Not only would it satisfy the current minority, but the current majority in the future. The minority of us players now that enjoy a challenge will always be growing, and Jagex needs to do its part in satisifying us as paying members.

 

I understand your point, but what Jagex is trying to do is to entice more new players to subscribe for membership than the number of experienced players leaving.

 

Even with what you call "easy" methods of training, it still takes quite some time to get to a point where there is no more challenge in playing RS. 2-3 years of playing moderately, probably? I don't know how Jagex works, but perhaps making a low-level update is easier than making a high-level one, so Jagex chooses to implement low-level updates to entice new players instead of trying to please experienced ones.

 

I doubt new players will get much wisdom from experienced players nowadays. Just look at the rants forum and you'll see countless rants on "noobs" irritating people for information. Most experienced players are too busy to waste time advising "noobs".

[Guest jrhairychest]

I don't flame Jagex. I rant and offer suggestions to improve the game in a way that it doesn't make the game "easy", but BALANCED, for example the F2P combat triangle and melee weapons.

 

:huh: You don't play. Why are you so bothered?

 

I don't want a skillcape or 99. I don't give a [bleep] about "bragging rights" and status. I also want to enjoy the game. What I'm saying is the game will naturally become easie/faster/more convenient as a part of progress, regardless of how much you rant against it.

 

Excellent considering you rant about the game instead of playing it. Why don't you just play the game and get on with it if you want to enjoy it instead of ranting about what you don't have? If its such a major issue use the RSOF to make your point.

 

Jagex might be making the game faster by putting "cook X" and such, but this doesn't make the game easier as in requiring less skill. You've already been disproved on the fact that easier=faster by troacctid. You still need to find a suitable and fast method to train. Ok, so there might be guides telling you how, but Jagex didn't create them - players did. Even if Jagex created them, most of their guides don't offer the most optimal method of training.

 

Um...I don't believe it was disproved. Troac has gone for easy skills then decides he doesn't want to talk about them, just as you don't like talking about your skill sets and then you both state the game will inevitably become easier. Neither of you are experts and none of you wanted to answer Erewhon2's question of 'how easy do you want it'.

 

 

What Jagex has been doing is making the game FASTER and less tedious so it better fulfills its role as a game - for fun. People don't like grinding - they want fun. By making less tedious and tiring grinding and more interesting things into the game, they increase their business. Most people are simple-minded and they don't know "fun" unless it's thrown in their face. Most people in this thread are in the minority. And guess who Jagex caters to as a profit-oriented organisation, i.e. business?

If people don't like grinding why do so many do it? Because they enjoy it. Simple. What you're saying is you and Troac don't like the grinding. You don't speak for the rest who play it day in, day out. If you're so right then Jagex would have gone out of business long ago so you're completely in the wrong. You attitude at calling people simpletons because they don't know what fun is is completely pointless. Thats why other people make a good success and enjoy the game, whereas you don't seem to be able to understand that. Look at your own comments about those in P2P. Something tells me your parents won't pay for P2P and thats one of your real issues.

 

Jagex can only cater to a portion of the community, not everyone. As such they will obviously cater to the majority, which increases their profit. We voluntarily chose to decline "fun" being thrown in your face, so it's not Jagex's fault for catering to the majority so they can earn more $$$.

 

In your case fun=easy. For most players if theres no challenge, therefore no fun. If easy is what you want then fine, but most of us don't.

[Beebel]

Jagex can only cater to a portion of the community, not everyone. As such they will obviously cater to the majority, which increases their profit. We voluntarily chose to decline "fun" being thrown in your face, so it's not Jagex's fault for catering to the majority so they can earn more $$$.

 

In your case fun=easy. For most players if theres no challenge, therefore no fun. If easy is what you want then fine, but most of us don't.

This is further supported by this evidence. 48% of RuneScape players play 'cause of the sense of achievement. You don't feel like you achieve something unless it was a challenge for you. This means that a large portion of the RS community do enjoy the challenge RS presents them.

 

Even with what you call "easy" methods of training, it still takes quite some time to get to a point where there is no more challenge in playing RS. 2-3 years of playing moderately, probably? I don't know how Jagex works, but perhaps making a low-level update is easier than making a high-level one, so Jagex chooses to implement low-level updates to entice new players instead of trying to please experienced ones.

Why would Jagex focus on updates for lower levels when the entire of RuneScape is new to them? The experienced players have had the time to explore and exhausted all of the current content, while the newer players haven't even played most minigames, or completed most of the quests. Jagex is trying to revive the older aspects of the game, so that the newer players will try them out. New players don't need updates, they have enough of the game left to explore anyway. Experienced players with quest capes do.

 

Variety is one way to gain the approval of players, but making a skill easier does the same thing with less effort. You have to type hundreds of pages of codes to create a few new ways to train, although it has the almost the same effect as perhaps a page of code to implement a "(train)-x" option.

Have you seen how many skills have "train-x"? This doesn't offer a variety, this just offers an easy route that allows people to grind without having to click. It can be useful, but adding a ''train-x" option isn't going to give RuneScape the variety it needs to make it more enjoyable for more players.

Yes, this will take a lot of effort, but I assure you, the effort will be worth it in the long run. Most people don't want every skill to have a "train-x" option, because that would make all skills virtually identical, thus removing the existing variety in the game.

 

I don't understand what you mean by skills cannot be implemented because the majority wants easy/fun/fast skills. A new skill can be easy to train too, though most of the later skills introduced are quite difficult skills.

 

I heard Jagex was planning to introduce a new skill to RS, for both F2P players and P2P players. I don't know whether it is going to be hard/easy, but anyhow it proves your point that Jagex cannot implement new skills wrong.

I said that wrong. What I meant was that for more another challenge to be added into the game, it can't be introduced as a new skill, shown by the introduction of summoning, and the majority of feedback from that was that it was too hard, too expensive, too useless, even though the rewards gained from high summoning are good, the majority that want easy skills can't be bothered training summoning to get the rewards they desire. This means any new skills will be easier, and therefore not a challenge, because that's what the majority wants.

 

I doubt new players will get much wisdom from experienced players nowadays. Just look at the rants forum and you'll see countless rants on "noobs" irritating people for information. Most experienced players are too busy to waste time advising "noobs".

I don't mind helping newer players when it comes to teaching them how to do things. It's stuff like being asked for free stuff that annoys me. I'm sure there are other players like that around too, that would help 'noobs' learn to make their own money so they stopped begging in the first place.

[quelmotz]

Firstly, please note that I am not supporting making RuneScape easier. I'm just trying to hypothesise possible reasons why Jagex is trying to make the game easier for new players. I am by no means claiming that all my guesses are definitely true.

 

This is further supported by this evidence. 48% of RuneScape players play 'cause of the sense of achievement. You don't feel like you achieve something unless it was a challenge for you. This means that a large portion of the RS community do enjoy the challenge RS presents them.

 

"Challenge" is quite subjective. For some people RuneScape as of now is already too challenging for them, and they probably think an easier RuneScape would still give them the same "sense of accomplishment". It's just my hypothesis anyway.

 

Why would Jagex focus on updates for lower levels when the entire of RuneScape is new to them? The experienced players have had the time to explore and exhausted all of the current content, while the newer players haven't even played most minigames, or completed most of the quests. Jagex is trying to revive the older aspects of the game, so that the newer players will try them out. New players don't need updates, they have enough of the game left to explore anyway. Experienced players with quest capes do.

 

I agree. I've already exhausted most of the content in F2P, and the only thing I have left to do is to train some of my skills so I can access the RC guild, Crafting guild and get 1000 total skill level, and some other minor things.

 

Perhaps Jagex feels that the current minigames, quests and such are not exciting enough? Maybe they are trying to entice more players when they are new, and maybe focus more on updates for high level players later? Or maybe they think the high level players should just make their own goals such as trying to obtain 99s in all skills?

 

I personally found RuneScape quite exciting when I first played it, and that was maybe 3-4 years ago? Exploring a world and doing quests and killing monsters to get stuff is quite addictive IMO. But that is just me. I don't know about the rest of the RuneScape population. Maybe they find RuneScape too boring compared to other more action-based MMOs?

 

Have you seen how many skills have "train-x"? This doesn't offer a variety, this just offers an easy route that allows people to grind without having to click. It can be useful, but adding a ''train-x" option isn't going to give RuneScape the variety it needs to make it more enjoyable for more players.

Yes, this will take a lot of effort, but I assure you, the effort will be worth it in the long run. Most people don't want every skill to have a "train-x" option, because that would make all skills virtually identical, thus removing the existing variety in the game.

 

As I said, I am NOT supporting making RuneScape have less variety or require less skill.

 

I know that the effort will be worth it in the long run, and I know train-x reduces the existing variety in the game. But none of us can fathom how Jagex's bosses think. Although we might want more variety and challenge, maybe Jagex's bosses think business-wise it is better to make the game easier? No one knows except Jagex staff.

 

I said that wrong. What I meant was that for more another challenge to be added into the game, it can't be introduced as a new skill, shown by the introduction of summoning, and the majority of feedback from that was that it was too hard, too expensive, too useless, even though the rewards gained from high summoning are good, the majority that want easy skills can't be bothered training summoning to get the rewards they desire. This means any new skills will be easier, and therefore not a challenge, because that's what the majority wants.

 

Ok, I understand what you're trying to say.

 

But I think Jagex should just go ahead and introduce some challenging new skills. Sometimes, the darkest night isn't before dawn. It's the worst when a new skill is first introduced. Many people will whine and nitpick and rant, but after a few months or so, 99% of people will get over it and stop ranting. As long as Jagex doesn't give in to them they will stop demanding. As shown in summoning. Although summoning was made easier, it was not significant and AFAIK summoning is still quite a tough skill. The shard prices being too high was a miscalculation on the part of Jagex I think.

 

I don't mind helping newer players when it comes to teaching them how to do things. It's stuff like being asked for free stuff that annoys me. I'm sure there are other players like that around too, that would help 'noobs' learn to make their own money so they stopped begging in the first place.

 

I don't really mind giving advice to new players on how to do things. Most of them are nice people, but the minority of irritating idiots who ask for advice and then beg for a lot of free stuff or just be plain irritating might cause the older players to dislike "newbs", and perhaps just ignore them even when they make a polite request for advice the experienced player could easily give.

 

I agree that it's always better just to ask politely or don't ask at all instead of begging rudely. Look at terrorists - what have their actions accomplished? Deaths of thousands of innocent people, and causing governments all over the world to try and fight them. And normal people to loathe them for killing innocents. If they demonstrated peacefully for their goals, there is a much higher chance that governments would listen to them. Same for new players.

[Beebel]

"Challenge" is quite subjective. For some people RuneScape as of now is already too challenging for them, and they probably think an easier RuneScape would still give them the same "sense of accomplishment". It's just my hypothesis anyway.

That is fair enough, which is why I think that some parts of RuneScape should be made easier, for the newer players, but I still believe that at least a reasonable sized portion of the game needs to be challenging for the more experienced players.

 

Perhaps Jagex feels that the current minigames, quests and such are not exciting enough? Maybe they are trying to entice more players when they are new, and maybe focus more on updates for high level players later? Or maybe they think the high level players should just make their own goals such as trying to obtain 99s in all skills?

If high level players are still playing, it's probably because RuneScape still presents a challenge for them. Jagex needs to keep this challenge in the form of skills that are still challenging, and respectable. I have started making my own goals, but I find that I prefer to try for harder goals than easier ones, which is why I started training harder, or more challenging skills recently. This is why I wish to keep the challenge in RuneScape, so that I will continue to enjoy the game as it is. I can't speak for the majority of the RuneScape population, but from what I've seen, people enjoy the challenge of going for a 99 skill, and actually completing it. Some skills have become too easy for me, personally, which is why I have stopped training them, and I expect the same thing happens to other players like myself, although I cannot be sure.

 

I personally found RuneScape quite exciting when I first played it, and that was maybe 3-4 years ago? Exploring a world and doing quests and killing monsters to get stuff is quite addictive IMO. But that is just me. I don't know about the rest of the RuneScape population. Maybe they find RuneScape too boring compared to other more action-based MMOs?

I think that part of RuneScape was the part that hooked most of the RuneScape players to date. But, people quit after they've exhausted the initial fun of the game, because there is nothing more for them to do, apart from grinding. This is why RuneScape needs a larger variety of ways to train the current skills, to keep people interested and cater to players individual preferences. RuneScape is supposed to be a game where the player can do whatever they please, they don't have to do quests unless they want the rewards given, they don't have to train farming or summoning if they choose not to, so Jagex's aim is to give players a reason to try all the aspects of the game.

 

I know that the effort will be worth it in the long run, and I know train-x reduces the existing variety in the game. But none of us can fathom how Jagex's bosses think. Although we might want more variety and challenge, maybe Jagex's bosses think business-wise it is better to make the game easier? No one knows except Jagex staff.

Why would Jagex feel it would be better to make RuneScape easier when they players desire challenge?

 

But I think Jagex should just go ahead and introduce some challenging new skills. Sometimes, the darkest night isn't before dawn. It's the worst when a new skill is first introduced. Many people will whine and nitpick and rant, but after a few months or so, 99% of people will get over it and stop ranting. As long as Jagex doesn't give in to them they will stop demanding. As shown in summoning. Although summoning was made easier, it was not significant and AFAIK summoning is still quite a tough skill. The shard prices being too high was a miscalculation on the part of Jagex I think.

As you are F2P, you wouldn't see how little Summoning is used now. Some people, not many though, use them for skill boosts when training skills like fishing and mining, but the majority of summoning is used for Graahk RCing, using familiars to help with slayer and quests. This is because most of the lower levelled players can't be bothered training the skill as they see it as a waste of combat levels, why get extra combat levels for no bonus? They're too lazy to use summoning to their own advantage.

[vivimancer]

Good to see a post that isn't chuck-full of sarcasm and insults for a change.

 

 

 

irony much?

[Adam007]

It likely has already been said, but Jagex making the game easier is inevitable. Every update they make to a skill has to be in some way better than what the skill currently has to offer, otherwise it's widely considered a waste of an update. Since the game's been around for 8 or so years, it got a lot easier over time. I mostly see comparisons to rs2, but in rs1 there were certain skills you could barely grind over 10k xp per hour. I'm not going to list out comparisons, but the game has to get easier across all skills or otherwise jagex can't update them.

[quelmotz]

Good to see a post that isn't chuck-full of sarcasm and insults for a change.

 

 

 

irony much?

 

I only make sarcastic comments when the person I'm replying to started it.

[Guest jrhairychest]

It likely has already been said, but Jagex making the game easier is inevitable. Every update they make to a skill has to be in some way better than what the skill currently has to offer, otherwise it's widely considered a waste of an update. Since the game's been around for 8 or so years, it got a lot easier over time. I mostly see comparisons to rs2, but in rs1 there were certain skills you could barely grind over 10k xp per hour. I'm not going to list out comparisons, but the game has to get easier across all skills or otherwise jagex can't update them.

 

I completely disagree with your interpretation. It isn't inevitable at all. Different methods of training doesn't mean they have to be faster XP, just alternatives. In fact the fastest methods are often the most boring methods from my experience. The game may have been altered to include more of the general population rather than just the players who played back when, but to just accept that the game is going to get easier all the time isn't good for a few reasons:

 

• 
   
  
• Whats the point of a game if its too easy? If any player wants it 'that' easy then the game is overly challenging for them so what's the point?
  
• No challenge = No point. Players wouldnt bother to play, they'd just go somewhere else. That is unless they wanted it 'that' easy.
  
• Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought a game was to be progressively harder and more challenging the more you went through it?
  
• We've seen the outcomes of 'easy' skills such as cooking. The outcome? No-one really gives a toss about them now. Thats what you get when you make things too easy.
  

 

I can accept that for some players RS is a little too much of a challenge for them, otherwise they'd play the game and accept the hoops to be jumped through to gain skills/items/quests etc instead of whinging about them. For the rest of us we need and enjoy some sort of challenge. Thats why RS has kept me playing for 4 years and I don't intend on quitting it yet.

[Adam007]

It likely has already been said, but Jagex making the game easier is inevitable. Every update they make to a skill has to be in some way better than what the skill currently has to offer, otherwise it's widely considered a waste of an update. Since the game's been around for 8 or so years, it got a lot easier over time. I mostly see comparisons to rs2, but in rs1 there were certain skills you could barely grind over 10k xp per hour. I'm not going to list out comparisons, but the game has to get easier across all skills or otherwise jagex can't update them.

 

I completely disagree with your interpretation. It isn't inevitable at all. Different methods of training doesn't mean they have to be faster XP, just alternatives. In fact the fastest methods are often the most boring methods from my experience. The game may have been altered to include more of the general population rather than just the players who played back when, but to just accept that the game is going to get easier all the time isn't good for a few reasons:

 

• 
   
  
• Whats the point of a game if its too easy? If any player wants it 'that' easy then the game is overly challenging for them so what's the point?
  
• No challenge = No point. Players wouldnt bother to play, they'd just go somewhere else. That is unless they wanted it 'that' easy.
  
• Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought a game was to be progressively harder and more challenging the more you went through it?
  
• We've seen the outcomes of 'easy' skills such as cooking. The outcome? No-one really gives a toss about them now. Thats what you get when you make things too easy.
  

 

I can accept that for some players RS is a little too much of a challenge for them, otherwise they'd play the game and accept the hoops to be jumped through to gain skills/items/quests etc instead of whinging about them. For the rest of us we need and enjoy some sort of challenge. Thats why RS has kept me playing for 4 years and I don't intend on quitting it yet.

You seem to think that I support that progression. I'm stating it has happened and continues to happen. Is that what you disagree with? Because you went on to talk about how they did that with cooking, so I don't know what your point is. In reference to your 4 points.

1: There isn't too much of a point of making the game progressively easier. I simply make the claim that that's what jagex does, regardless of whether or not we like it.

2. There still is a challenge. Jagex just raises the bar on skills. They progressively make you hit harder with stronger weapons, so they then make stronger armor. If a new weapon does not add anything new (which is normally being a stronger weapon than what is out there in some way), it is considered a waste of an update by the players. It is the players who demand the game be made easier and easier with each update. Regardless of what is best for them.

3. Again, you're completely misinterpreting what I said. I'm not suggesting what jagex does is good. I'm saying it is inevitable, given the way they update. Granted they have been adding less content, but when they do add new content, they generally have to add something that is in some way better than the available training in some way. They may make the game harder by releasing stronger monsters, but this is consistent with how they update: they have to push the boundaries of what is already in the game. This means the game gets easier, equipment gets stronger, and monsters get harder.

4. Yes, that's what you get when you make things too easy. That's the point I made in the post you just quoted. Without sounding condescending, I just don't see how that isn't clear to you. I'm not suggesting that the game 'has to become easier' in the sense that it's something jagex should do. I'm claiming that since day one the game 'has become easier' in the sense that jagex inevitably has to make updates one-up the content currently in the game, otherwise players are not satisfied. Granted there will always be a challenge. Just compare getting 99 in a skill today to getting 99 in any skill back in rs1. The game has gotten and will continue to get easier.

[Erewhon2]

You seem to think that I support that progression. I'm stating it has happened and continues to happen. Is that what you disagree with? Because you went on to talk about how they did that with cooking, so I don't know what your point is. In reference to your 4 points.

1: There isn't too much of a point of making the game progressively easier. I simply make the claim that that's what jagex does, regardless of whether or not we like it.

2. There still is a challenge. Jagex just raises the bar on skills. They progressively make you hit harder with stronger weapons, so they then make stronger armor. If a new weapon does not add anything new (which is normally being a stronger weapon than what is out there in some way), it is considered a waste of an update by the players. It is the players who demand the game be made easier and easier with each update. Regardless of what is best for them.

3. Again, you're completely misinterpreting what I said. I'm not suggesting what jagex does is good. I'm saying it is inevitable, given the way they update. Granted they have been adding less content, but when they do add new content, they generally have to add something that is in some way better than the available training in some way. They may make the game harder by releasing stronger monsters, but this is consistent with how they update: they have to push the boundaries of what is already in the game. This means the game gets easier, equipment gets stronger, and monsters get harder.

4. Yes, that's what you get when you make things too easy. That's the point I made in the post you just quoted. Without sounding condescending, I just don't see how that isn't clear to you. I'm not suggesting that the game 'has to become easier' in the sense that it's something jagex should do. I'm claiming that since day one the game 'has become easier' in the sense that jagex inevitably has to make updates one-up the content currently in the game, otherwise players are not satisfied. Granted there will always be a challenge. Just compare getting 99 in a skill today to getting 99 in any skill back in rs1. The game has gotten and will continue to get easier.

 

As the OP, I think it would be useful for me to respond to some of the issues you have raised as they reflect the arguments I have previously laid out.

 

First I would challenge the assumption that the game will "inevitably" become easier because "that's what Jagex does". Some aspects will become smoother and easier to a degree because of advances in technology and programming, that is natural progression. I think to compare RS today with RS1 is ridiculous in light of advances, they are almost entirely different games with regard to graphics, interaction and interface. The debate is about game content, the way people play the game and manage their skill development.

 

It is the players who demand the game be made easier and easier with each update. Regardless of what is best for them.

And this is the point, I wanted people to be honest in this debate about wanting it easier then I could challenge them on why.

 

They may make the game harder by releasing stronger monsters, but this is consistent with how they update

I disagree with this statement, one of the best updates Jagex did was the 'Smoking Kills' quest, which created variety and incentive for working on slayer and if you wanted a slayer helm you couldn't opt out of hard tasks or you lost all your points. This demonstrates that Jagex can do constructive and creative updates and with enough support from players, may continue to do this. I also would not want to get bogged down in the issue of updates alone. There is also the aspect of player choice that I argue with. Why do some people always go for the easiest method achieving 99 skills? (and continue to demand that these are even easier, I would suggest this may be the point of Jrhairychest's comment on the 99 cooking cape), and why do others play for pure enjoyment and in a way that suits their personality? I met someone the recently on RS who took 3 years to achieve their farming cape, they are so proud of that cape and they managed that 99 at no cost! Well good for them, I intend to do the same :thumbsup:

The point here is that 'easier' is not inevitable for updates and players also have a choice.....how easy do you personally want it?

[Guest jrhairychest]

 

You seem to think that I support that progression. I'm stating it has happened and continues to happen. Is that what you disagree with? Because you went on to talk about how they did that with cooking, so I don't know what your point is.

Saying 'RS will inevitably become easier' is a sitting on the fence statement. Just because there are updates it doesn't necessarily have to be easier. I'm not saying that you support it, but you don't state you don't support it either. Do you support this stance by Jagex? Think about it. A game that becomes easier and easier as time goes on will turn off many players who play it for the challenges it currently poses and the enjoyment factor. If it becomes so easy it'll turn most players off completely and they'll go somewhere else. Erewhon2 rightly asks 'How easy do you want it?' and makes a point originally brought up by Troactid about smoking kills being an example of a good update that didn't ruin the slayer skill but made it more enjoyable. On the other hand the recent Woodcutting update as well as others are seen to devalue the game.

 

 

In reference to your 4 points.

1: There isn't too much of a point of making the game progressively easier. I simply make the claim that that's what jagex does, regardless of whether or not we like it.

True. So you're against this approach?

2. There still is a challenge. Jagex just raises the bar on skills. They progressively make you hit harder with stronger weapons, so they then make stronger armor. If a new weapon does not add anything new (which is normally being a stronger weapon than what is out there in some way), it is considered a waste of an update by the players. It is the players who demand the game be made easier and easier with each update. Regardless of what is best for them.

Better weapons and stronger armour are not a challenge. This is covered in the 'Do we need more ultimate weapons' debate. Erewhon2 suggested a much more useful update earlier in this thread regarding the mellee combat system with weapon/armour implications which supports a variation of tactics rather than just clobbering us with more weapons and armour without any real thought.

 

3. Again, you're completely misinterpreting what I said. I'm not suggesting what jagex does is good. I'm saying it is inevitable, given the way they update. Granted they have been adding less content, but when they do add new content, they generally have to add something that is in some way better than the available training in some way. They may make the game harder by releasing stronger monsters, but this is consistent with how they update: they have to push the boundaries of what is already in the game. This means the game gets easier, equipment gets stronger, and monsters get harder.

I haven't misinterpreted anything. My point was the more the challenge reduces in parts of the game the less players feel inclined to play it. Unless of course we are trying more and more to cater for players around the age of 10 these days.

 

4. Yes, that's what you get when you make things too easy. That's the point I made in the post you just quoted. Without sounding condescending, I just don't see how that isn't clear to you. I'm not suggesting that the game 'has to become easier' in the sense that it's something jagex should do. I'm claiming that since day one the game 'has become easier' in the sense that jagex inevitably has to make updates one-up the content currently in the game, otherwise players are not satisfied. Granted there will always be a challenge. Just compare getting 99 in a skill today to getting 99 in any skill back in rs1. The game has gotten and will continue to get easier.

I think Erewhon2 covered a lot of this point. However the point I was making if the game becomes 'that' simple it'll lose its appeal to its mainstay market. Not the here one day gone the next kids but players who stick around because they enjoy the game for what it is. Its not about making the game easier, its about variation without making the game easier.

[Beebel]

My personal opinion is that the game is at a good level of difficulty at the moment, with there being a few skills that are regarded as easy, a few around the middle, and a few that are hard. While I say this, I still believe that there is room for a lot more updates, making the game more complex, or adding variety to the skills we already have.

 

I agree that the majority of RuneScape will probably get easier as time goes on, I have seen the prices of items rising, making money more widely needed for any aspect. Same thing goes for updates which make xp gain faster and faster, but I think that Jagex would be able to still create updates reinforcing the current aspects of the games, without giving much difference to the xp or monetary gains.

[krimzenfox23]

"Challenge" is quite subjective. For some people RuneScape as of now is already too challenging for them, and they probably think an easier RuneScape would still give them the same "sense of accomplishment". It's just my hypothesis anyway.

That is fair enough, which is why I think that some parts of RuneScape should be made easier, for the newer players, but I still believe that at least a reasonable sized portion of the game needs to be challenging for the more experienced players.

 

Perhaps Jagex feels that the current minigames, quests and such are not exciting enough? Maybe they are trying to entice more players when they are new, and maybe focus more on updates for high level players later? Or maybe they think the high level players should just make their own goals such as trying to obtain 99s in all skills?

If high level players are still playing, it's probably because RuneScape still presents a challenge for them. Jagex needs to keep this challenge in the form of skills that are still challenging, and respectable. I have started making my own goals, but I find that I prefer to try for harder goals than easier ones, which is why I started training harder, or more challenging skills recently. This is why I wish to keep the challenge in RuneScape, so that I will continue to enjoy the game as it is. I can't speak for the majority of the RuneScape population, but from what I've seen, people enjoy the challenge of going for a 99 skill, and actually completing it. Some skills have become too easy for me, personally, which is why I have stopped training them, and I expect the same thing happens to other players like myself, although I cannot be sure.

 

I personally found RuneScape quite exciting when I first played it, and that was maybe 3-4 years ago? Exploring a world and doing quests and killing monsters to get stuff is quite addictive IMO. But that is just me. I don't know about the rest of the RuneScape population. Maybe they find RuneScape too boring compared to other more action-based MMOs?

I think that part of RuneScape was the part that hooked most of the RuneScape players to date. But, people quit after they've exhausted the initial fun of the game, because there is nothing more for them to do, apart from grinding. This is why RuneScape needs a larger variety of ways to train the current skills, to keep people interested and cater to players individual preferences. RuneScape is supposed to be a game where the player can do whatever they please, they don't have to do quests unless they want the rewards given, they don't have to train farming or summoning if they choose not to, so Jagex's aim is to give players a reason to try all the aspects of the game.

 

I know that the effort will be worth it in the long run, and I know train-x reduces the existing variety in the game. But none of us can fathom how Jagex's bosses think. Although we might want more variety and challenge, maybe Jagex's bosses think business-wise it is better to make the game easier? No one knows except Jagex staff.

Why would Jagex feel it would be better to make RuneScape easier when they players desire challenge?

 

But I think Jagex should just go ahead and introduce some challenging new skills. Sometimes, the darkest night isn't before dawn. It's the worst when a new skill is first introduced. Many people will whine and nitpick and rant, but after a few months or so, 99% of people will get over it and stop ranting. As long as Jagex doesn't give in to them they will stop demanding. As shown in summoning. Although summoning was made easier, it was not significant and AFAIK summoning is still quite a tough skill. The shard prices being too high was a miscalculation on the part of Jagex I think.

As you are F2P, you wouldn't see how little Summoning is used now. Some people, not many though, use them for skill boosts when training skills like fishing and mining, but the majority of summoning is used for Graahk RCing, using familiars to help with slayer and quests. This is because most of the lower levelled players can't be bothered training the skill as they see it as a waste of combat levels, why get extra combat levels for no bonus? They're too lazy to use summoning to their own advantage.

[Graiskye]

Well I haven't played Runescape for years, but I have played MMORPG's for years, so I have a pretty good idea what I like in a game.

Do I want it easier, some things yes. I would like it to be easier to use what I have earned, ie as in a more friendly, and yes easy to use UI.

The current UI is archaic, and it seems to me the only thing keeping it archaic, is that there is a certain amount, one could say even a lot of difficulty built in to the game that stems directly form the archaic UI.

To sit there for days on end clicking on a bank and then on my inventory, over and over, for days and weeks on end, I dont think for one second that is fun, challenging, or even slightly amusing.

Its just stupid, and a cheap ass way to make difficulty.

Trash Wow,and other RPG's, but WOW has some of the best content of any video game I have played and difficulty that comes from, for the most part, the environment you find yourself in, and not the challenge of manipulating an archaic UI in the face of what might be death, due to an archaic UI !

I understand when the developers were young this was an easy way to make the game 'difficult', but really isn't time consuming more appropriate for 90% of the skilling in RS.

Whereas in lets say GuildWars, if you didn't have your group together and your game tight, you could not progress past a certain point in the story, that was difficulty built into the games story, and it made the experience of finally getting through that hellish mountain pass(name escapes at the moment,they are some great quests though), a really satisfying one. Now there is probably people soloing those missions but it was new at the time, and hellishly fun.

I hope I find some thing similar in RS, I hope the idea that difficulty is tied too how many times you have to clik the screen to produce a point of XP, is dying, there has to be more creative ways to make XP.

I think Jagex can see this and have been making vast changes to the game, and there will be more, and people will hate them, but if they want to continue to grow they have to update the game.

[Saru Inc]

Commenting on Op's post, and ignoring all between:

 

YOu have fun forgetting to refil the vial?

 

 

All updates like this to is ease the semantics of the game (ectophial wise)

 

However, you don't have to do PP! And when you get 99 feel free to brag to everyone else, but for right now...