Tip.It Times: Jagex interfering?

[bilbobaggins]

I feel that JAGeX has no right to tell us that we are not allowed to post a guide for newly released quests, because:

 

 

 

1. we are a third-party independent website, and

 

 

 

2. if you want to do the quest on your own, then you can skip the guide.

 

 

 

I feel, however, that we should put up a disclaimer: reading guides for certain quests may zap the fun out of them, if you wish for a challenge, close this window and try it yourself

 

 

 

or something like that.

[PDJ]

gondeath, that has been up there for a LONG time...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i would type of a list of all the other things jagex has promised us and never came through on, but i don't think thats necessary to make my point ;)

[banditx31]

I agree with the editor's view.

 

 

 

Although I whink that Jagex worked long and hard to make the quest possible and they probably wanted their members to enjoy doing the puzzle without any help. However, Jagex should employ a more formal method to try and tell fansites that they wanted to request the delay of the quest guide. Besides that, we are already respecting Jagex by not releasing the guide but why didnt they tell more fansites as quite a few sites have already released the guide as i had observed. Anyway, the thing is that some people are really not that good at doing quests and those who feels up to the challenge can refrain from reading the guides.

[connor1970]

I am beginning to think that Jagex have lost the plot. It seems to me that they are becoming money hungry (like a few other MMORPG's out there) and are loosing touch with the individual.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They seem to have NO Customer Service Relations what so ever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most of the time you write to them you get this standard message:

 

 

 

From: Jagex

 

 

 

Subject: Re: Your Recent Support Query

 

 

 

Date: 14 Oct 2005 20:04

 

 

 

Delete

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Connor1970,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for taking the time to contact Customer Support.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At Jagex we always aim to respond to every message we receive from our players individually and as quickly as possible.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, due to the massive growth in popularity of Runescape and the increasing number of queries that brings, we are not able to offer you a personal response this time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We are now answering more queries than ever before and we are constantly increasing the size of our customer support unit.

 

 

 

We are also massively improving our system in order to answer much quicker than before.

 

 

 

The new system will be up to speed very soon, and this will allow us to offer a personal response to ALL your queries.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Furthermore, RuneScape.com has a wealth of information available to players whether it be Technical, Billing or Game related and more often than not you will

 

 

 

find the answer here. Using the FAQ section, for instance, will probably help you to find the answer to your problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If, after looking at the website, you are still unable to locate the required answer then please resubmit your query and we will do our utmost to answer it

 

 

 

as quickly as possible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to take this opportunity to apologise for not being able to offer a personal response at this time and, once again, I would like to ensure you

 

 

 

that this will no longer happen.

 

 

 

I would in addition like to thank you for your continued support in RuneScape and wish you the best of luck within the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

RuneScape Customer Support

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 8th October 2005 you sent us the following:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note that the response is almost a full week after I sent the message, and I have still yet to recieve a response from them, concerning the original message I sent them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And if you do get a response what ever they have "posing" as a Customer Support ( and I directly refer to Mod Mark L, in particular), is rude, arrogant and dosn't even care about their customers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In fact recent events from Jagex have almost lost me as a customer. If it wasn't for the great community of players out there, they would have. Which just itterates the point I am trying to make here. It is the community of people out there, who make these great site like Tip.It, that make the game what it is today! If Jagex are wanting to continue to grow, they need to learn to respect the people playing their game (their customer - with-out whom Jagex wouldn't exist today), and the people who put countless hours of effort, with little or no reward for their efforts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I said before, if it wasn't for these fan sites, and the community of dedicated players, I wouldn't be playing runescape still...I would have moved onto another MMORPG, like Everpatch, or World of Warhack.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So for Jagex to "request" (read - demand) that the fan sites to their game "do their bidding" is almost "cutting of their nose to spite their face"!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In summery::: JAGEX - wake up and take a good look at yourself and realise that your customers are you most important assett (and the customer is always right), and do you best to support them as possible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sites like Tip.It are almost required to ensure the continuity of the game, so all those who support and make submissions to these fan-sites need to be acknowlegde and strong encouraged to keep up their great work!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK, I'll stop acting like a bitter old man, and get off my soap box now.

 

 

 

Thank-you for your time,

 

 

 

Andrew Connor

 

 

 

AKA connor1970 - feel free to PM me in game.

[Lucky11]

I dont think they did the right thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If a paying customer wants to use a guide..then they will go in search of one. If they want the challange..they wont.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The biggest reason why I think it was wrong of them to ask this website and a couple of others not to use a guide is..because..a guide was posted on some other website from late in the day, Monday.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The guide was partial up to the 7th door..by the next day..the shopping list was there, too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This guide was NOT removed and is STILL there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So why ask a few popular sites to remove theirs..if people can find it elswhere?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW..it was a very nice gesture for you to abide by their wishes.

[Sy_Accursed]

I can see Jagex's point of view for wanting to make the quest and I say good job to tip.it and other sites for being bold enouhg to respect thier wishes

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But I alos think that they should not have such control over and non-related website and if they do havre the control to atleast inform the site on the day of update so that they don't go ahead through the laborious process of doing the quest while collecting info and pictures to make a usable guide to get to the users the nexy day or atleast the day after that.

[assassin_696]

I can see Jagex's point of view and reasoning for this, it's not a totally unreasonable request to delay the release of a guide that makes one of the trickiest quests a piece of cake; but then again i see the editor's point of view on this. Why on earth should they claim authority over a non-affliated fansite? I totally agree that they need to create "official" fansites, that we don't get banned for pointing out to people who need help. It's ludicrous that they should expect that we get all the information we need from the main site, it's hopeless! And why do they ask permission to remove the guide from two main sites, when they know there are plenty more that people knowabouts who WILL post the guide. It's like they're deliberately removing viewers from the main ones.

[Scooby_Doo]

Well that lasted a whole of 4 of the 7 days they said the guide was going to be held off for. If you don't know what I mean, read the last part of the news on http://www.tip.it/runescape

[myg0t]

I agree with jagex 100%

[cadburys_egg]

 

However, you need to think: Jagex worked hard to make this quest challenging, and they don't want little "guide-noobs" doing it in a day...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Meh, I guess, but what's it to JaGex :P It's not like they'll make any more money off of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its not like you are making money from publishing these guides either. They say fan sites are fine but have no control of what goes on them.

[Nyarlathotep]

So... am I imagining things that it used to be tipits OWN policy to not allow guides to be posted for at least 24 hours after a quest was released?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

just because you guys forums were down for ages and runehq started stealing all your visitors you dropped that rule and just put up guides whenever they were done to 'compete'. seems kind of hypocritical for you guys to complain when jagex asked you to go back to the policy you USED TO HAVE YOURSELVES :?

[simple1]

Ok, thinking long and hard if I should react at all I decided to put down my opinion of it all. So here it is, beware most points are already made and it is just my 2 cents on it all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, yes, Jagex should do more for their community. Yet this also has to be looked at from their point of view. In the end Jagex is a company with a product on the market that has to pay wages for those who work there and bring a profit for those who own the company. If it didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t the game would cease to exist. My guess is most of the users of Tip.It wouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t like it if RS would end.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It seems to me that a company that has been in existence for a short period has to watch their cash-flow, their income and what goes out. Yet they still maintain a pretty large number of servers for the F2P game. All they get out of that is revenue form ads on it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So this new quest: It took me 3 solid days, lots of trips to the bank, lots of cursing and frustration in the end as I couldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t get through the last door to the altar. Then I used the RS site and asked for help: I forgot to rotate the last mirror. Would I have used Tip if it had a guide on it? Probably not, just for that last one I guess. Did I have fun doing it? A big YES.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So where is the harm in delaying a guide? There is none. Maybe the way it was asked to delay the guide ticked some people off, yet this is also some recognition of those sites. As to the decision not to put up a guide: That wasnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t made by Jagex but by Tip and Rhq.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do think Jagex has the right to ask for a guide not to be put up very soon after the release of the quest. The decision to honour that request is made by the fan-site: DonÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t complain after you decided to go along with the request. It is way too easy to always criticizing Jagex without giving 2nd thoughts about what they do for the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, before I forget, a lot of players seem to want most things for free. Not do the work to get lvlÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s up to do a certain tasks, complaining about Tz-Haar because it is a high-lvl update. Complaining you canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t get a whip as a drop at cb lvl 70 with slayer 10. Yet it is always Jagex fault, never the player in question.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RS/n: Simple013

[starev91]

So... am I imagining things that it used to be tipits OWN policy to not allow guides to be posted for at least 24 hours after a quest was released?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

just because you guys forums were down for ages and runehq started stealing all your visitors you dropped that rule and just put up guides whenever they were done to 'compete'. seems kind of hypocritical for you guys to complain when jagex asked you to go back to the policy you USED TO HAVE YOURSELVES :?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From my understanding they asked a day or two afterward.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It might help if they had someone who helped explain how the light maze worked, it took me nearly 10 pray pots and ragnogs guide, plus some in game help, to get the final idea. The lever is nearly invisible if your playing at shoulder level camera. The 10 pray pots was with 51 prayer and a prayer bonus of +27 (sara book, drag mace, full shades, and a holy symbol I believe was what I was wearing, although I might have been wearing initiate helm as well). They need someone to explain the motive there, I really didnt get it, and I met at least 3 others who had spent longer in there and hadnt gotten it. I did 1 with help, then managed 2-5 without, and lost internet so havent gone on and done 6th door.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, yes pming in game is very unprofessional, but they DO say on their website that they "will never contact through email" and many things like that. I think they thought that if they e-mailed tip.it the reciever of the email might think "Noob who wants to mess up our site" or "Scammer faking jagex staff". It is completely possible to get a web address at jagex.com or at runescape.com ([email protected] and [email protected]), I have recieved at least 1 email that was from each of those domains asking for my password, hours played per day, and normal time I was on and off in CST (exact demands varied, as with what they said I would get, but basic idea remains the same). Sorry, I deleted them immediatly so I dont have a copy of them to show :S But the point remains that someone who wanted to make the fan-site seem slightly unprofessional might do that for their own selfish reasons, or just to have a laugh.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes I think jagex should be more fansite friendly. NO I dont think they were overstepping their bounds by asking that the fansite not release the guide, I merely think they should have offered incentive for not releasing the guide-such as "If you dont release the guide, we promise to work on a fansite listing on our site and release it within the week" or something along the lines of "We ask that you dont release the guide, and if we havent posted in the news area by (insert time here in whatever time zone they want) tomorrow that a fansite listing is being developed, then you can release it". Or something like that so that tip.it would get a slice in if they followed runescapes askances.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think it was very nice of tip.it staff to not release the guide until jagex said that they could. (latest news post at the time of this message)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the forums do need work, and could be much prettier for one-kinda bland if you ask me. And there is a search,but it searches thread titles only, and only in a given forum. It still takes some time to find items or posts related to what you want, as some people post things in the wrong forum, etc. etc. etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Gets off the crate he found himself standing on*

[euph]

Hey guys.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some of youmay know me as one of the Runevillage Admins, and also the co-writer of our version of the MEP2 guide.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex contacted me ingame, and through the message box, and they also contacted hiker (the owner of RV).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Our guide had attracted somewhere near 10k views and was at around 14 pages long before I took it down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, I can agree with jagex to some extent. They asked us to remove it so that people would at least try to complete the quest without just plodding through it like sheep using the guide.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that this is a good idea. It is the hardest puzzle they have ever made, and I personally think the quest was more frustrating and more difficult that rsc legends and rs2 desert treasure. Whilst I copmpleted the quest without a guide, I know that if I had have been away for a few days I would have probably sheeped along as well and followed a guide step by step.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also realise that a huge amount of work has gone into this quest on behalf of jagex, and to be fair, i'd be pretty narked if within 24 hours every rs fansite had a full and complete walkthrough with the mirror sequences and maps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From the other point of view.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rv, like tip.it and rhq is a huge fansite. We have less registered users than you guys do, only 60k, but we still have a duty to them right? People come to the fansites because of the community, the benefits, usergroups, clans, skill guides, calculators and yes.. guides.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of users will go to fansites and red the guides without even registering, so we have way over 60k people looking at our guides.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, as a fansite the best way to get ahead is to make the best guides, get the best guides up before the other sites, make everyone say "oh go and look at rv, they have a guide" or "tip.it have a really good guide up". So from our point of view, as site management and admins we really need to get those guides up and running.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If people want to use guides why can't they? Well there is no reason. Of course, the main arguments are thus.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) I want to use a guide, who are you to stop me.... well the truth of the matter is, no one can stop you. If you want to use a guide then that's your choice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) I just want to look to make sure i'm on the right track, or because I'm stuck on parts.... well I'm sure your intentions are nobel, but we both know that if you do that you'll look ahead, just for a minute.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) I don't want to use the guide, but I know people who do... don't we all mate, imagine my pms as we were writing the guide -.- but there are always the pm options to turn on and off if you get really angry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) The temptation factor. Someone gets stuck, they see a completed guide.. they're going to look. Even if they want to do it guideless, they will look.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So yeah, Let's say that I'm on the fence on this one. (probably a large factor involved in my aloofness is the fact that I already did the quest). But I understand all of the major fansites are going to punlish their finished, official guide within a week, so if people are really really stuck they can look then. If not, keep trying, youll crack it eventually. It'll just hurt your head.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Happy questing :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-euph

 

 

 

RV Admin.

[banditx31]

.....well u gotta agree with euph. those are some good reasons.

[Teaberry]

I'm in complete agreement with the original writer's opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We weren't one of the sites asked, but we pride ourselves on same-day quest guides. Our guide for MEP2 was up early Tuesday morning after we'd mapped out the temple and routes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even if they had asked, they'd have been politely told to sod off. I don't tell them what to do on their privately owned website, they do not tell me what to do on mine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It may sound [bleep]-for-tat but if Jagex are going to demonise fansites over and over, they have no right at all to be asking fansites to delay their content.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[edit]

 

 

 

I'd like to add that Jagex can see the solution here staring in their faces. If they want some control about what gets published and when, they need to start an "Official Fansite" programme and to stop warning people away because all fansites apparently have keyloggers and want to steal your password, your bronze platebody and your dog.

[Triplets_KGB]

I agree. Either Jagex announces it specifically in their posted rules or they let the customers, who pay, do what they want. Jagex is being annoying with their grey rules and silent requests. Everyone is confused on the various issues which sometimes even Jagex as a team can't come to a single position on, so fansites and players have to guess what is right or wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Got to agree with that part. Only 12 rules for the game, none about quest content, guides or anything. If there is, its hidden.

[brainer013]

i agree with euph

[Duke_Freedom]

Hm. I'm surprised tip.it, or at least the person who wrote that article, reacts so furious about Jagex' request to lay down on the quest guide while the quest just came out. I would have thought tip.it and Jagex had an ok cỏ̮̦̉peration on such matters, and that the tip.it admins would have no problem with honouring such a request in special cases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, tip.it is in no way affiliated with Jagex and yes, their main goal is to serve their fans, not Jagex... But even then: cỏ̮̦̉peration of fan sites and game companies are usually good for both parties, the fan site community as well as the game company. It saves game companies a hella lot of work with good fan sites around and in return the game companies usually even promote such fan sites.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apparently I was wrong with that, and like blackrazor pointed out, it's pretty weird of a game company to 'ignore' it's largest fan site for over 4 years like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know I definately didn't expect such a hostile reaction on Jagex request though, but I guess it is in fact Jagex fault in the end. Over the past year I've only seeing them describe fan sites as "evil places with huge security holes that will steal your password" - I guess that closes the door for any communication between fan sites and Jagex in the first place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hopefully Jagex will some time realise that the RuneScape fan sites are necessary to ensure the game's succes. Although I can understand their reasoning, which is something along the lines "we don't want to give part of our 'control' away to fan sites", I do think Jagex took the wrong road regarding community management for a long time already.

[Vape]

Well I know you must have found out by now, that Jagex is planning a "official site" list to add to there site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(A DIRECT quote from runescape.com)

 

 

 

"Is it possible to get a link on RuneScape.com?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not at the moment. However we are looking into a system which will allow us to give the best fan sites an "official fan site" classification. Sites that gain this classification will be allowed to show an official graphic as well as having a link to their site from RuneScape.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We do not have a date yet as to when this will be happening, so please DO NOT email us in regards to one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What we can tell you now is that when we do go ahead with this system Jagex will handpick "official" fan sites and we will contact you if we would like your site to receive an official acceptance. Please do not contact us regarding becoming an "official" fan site. Just concentrate on making your fan site high in quality and you will be doing your best to become accepted."

Dude do you know how long that's been there for? Years and years and years dude. It certainly aint high on their priorities list.

[Lucky11]

If jagex is going to ask a fansite or two to remove their guides..then they should make the effort to contact them ALL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was midway thru the light maze..and was stumped. I took a break and did the other quest. When I returned to the temple..a friend of mine was there..and quickly offered me the name of a site with a guide. That guide was never removed. Its still there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had been using their quest forums once I completed the quest. There were 2 major threads where people were posting mini guides from their own experiences. This morning I checked there. A jagex mod closed one..but never bothered to turn the page to close the other..which had some of the identical mini guides. So that large help thread with the same information..is still opened.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This brings us back to..if you are going to do something..then do it ALL the way!!

[RoswellCrash]

I feel Jagex have the complet right to ask any site not to post a quest guide Tip.It would not be here if RuneScape wasn't but RuneScape would still be here if Tip.it wasn't, i think they really wanted to see who the best players are to many people come on these sites and use the guides without even trying the quest first i completed ME2 in just over 4 hours but jagex will never no how many people are good at quest because of the quest guides i think they should be more involved in the fan site community but should also try to have more control over it also.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And saying people should have the chance to make there own mind up if they use the guide or not is wrong thats like saying people should be able to get to lvl 99 for doing nothing quest are a skill to and guides take the skill away!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To who wrote the Tip.It Times = I think you are going to far with saying jagex don't have any right, your saying they should be able to make a quest and have fan site ruin them with quest guides? So you may have given there players help and got them more player but i think Tip.It is getting to big for its boots who are you to ruin their quests they made, now ask your self who are they to request such a thing of Tip.It! Only the people who made this site, they may not have helped build it but they are the reason it was made remember that next time!!!

[Arumunus]

i've skimmed through this post but have read the articale and i am astounded! i feel jagex were well within their rights to ask you to withold the guide, whats the point in having quests if all you're going to do is look through a guide to do it. I was happy with the orignal decision, i was still happy when i read the update that you released the guide. I am anoyed at the editors outburst though. Jagex can't ask every fan site to withold the guide, there are far too many to perform such a task. I mean you call yourselves a fan site, yet you seem to be at open war with jagex!! a fan is meant to idol the target not rant about them!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Admitedly jagex have made some stupid decisions that i could rant about cough*farming*cough!!!! but i digress, jagex chose to make quests, we players chose to do the quests, you chose to make guides. Most guides are fine for other quests however this one im sure will havea good ending that jagex wanted to surprise us with, you are effectivly just ripping the last page of a book and handing it to us. I don't intend to read the guide myself as by the sounds of things it is going to have some massive spoilers in it. I think ive kinda lost track of things now, basically mr editor please try to contain your angry outbursts (no offence).

[gbvno1]

I think Jagex has the right to ask you not to post whatever they feel on your site. But because the site has no relations to the game it should be the site masters discrection on whether or not to listen. I do agree that each player has the choice to use the guide or not. I personally like the guides being there in case I get stuck to the point that I want to toss my computer out the nearest window... I understand that the guide has not been posted out of respect for Jagex, but Jagex has to respect the fact that you all work so hard on making the guides readily available for the players who have trouble trying the quests on their own.

[Dadevilsidol]

Well although it is all 'sorted' now I do think this kind of thing is madness. No one forces anyone to read a quest guide and who gets hurt if people do want to use them? This isn't school! One thing I didn't like about RS were all the long quests and some of those had to be completed in order to get certain items, go certain places etc. Towards the end of my RS playing 'career' I didn't have much time to spend online so when I did have time I certainly didn't want to spend it doing the same quest. Getting stuck on a quest would put me into a bad mood and that isn't what a game should do to you!