Tip.It Times: Jagex interfering?

[csours]

Jagex may have been off base in not wanting the walkthrough released, but what i most object to is the shadows in the temple of light, followed by the complete lack of instruction by any npc on how to even start the light doors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1: to clarify my objection about the shadows: there should have been a step in the quest that rendered them inert, or extremely less harmful. their presence did nothing for the challenge, they just made me use up 8 prayer pots. the book you recover says something about one of the slaves saying: no shadows on me.... ok, so how did he keep the shadows off of him-> good place to interject the part of the quest that protects you from shadows...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2: because of the system of graphics that rs2 uses, small or slender objects are hard to click: ie the collector handle. I had no idea it was there or how to use it. Aranwyn could easily have dropped a hint, or when trying to collect from the collector the chat should have said: "Maybe I should pull the handle."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those are the two things that would have made this a real puzzle.

 

 

 

I used the official RS forums to finish the quest, and it was quite spoiled there.

[Shinyblade99]

I think we should let Jagex tell us what to do with our quest guides because they made the game and the quest that were get guided on!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is basically asking us to let tip.it become ruled by jagex.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

aNd my suggestion is, just dont put answers to the puzzles in quest guides. Let the poeple doing the puzzle not have a step by step of it, but make the quest guides more of a "basic outline" sorta thing, so you know where to go and who to talk to more than how to solve something.

[Jimmyd17]

I agree with Jagex and with what they REQUESTED to be done. They did not threaten or anything they only asked if the quest guide could be delayed for a few days. They put time into making it and it should be an accomplishment for players to complete this quest not just reading it step by step off a guide. Guides are helpful, I use them when i get stumped often and I am for them, but some people are taking too much advantage of them. I keep reading "I'm appalled" "I dont like what Jagex is doing with the game" and all that stuff, just chill out itf it weren't for Jagex you wouldn't be playing RS so give credit where credit is due. And if you can't figure out the puzzles go play outside for a few days til it is released. :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jimmyd17

[Jach13]

http://rune-market.com/guides-quests.php?sub=96

[Vape]

Just so everyone knows, the Editor's comments are not representative of any of the Tip.It staff or an official Tip.It view.

If I just look at the tip.it website without delving deep into this thread, it gives the opposite impression. IMHO tip.it needs to take responsibility for anything posted on the tip.it website.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While the forums give a specific disclaimer when registering;

 

 

 

While the administrators and moderators of this forum will attempt to remove or edit any generally objectionable material as quickly as possible, it is impossible to review every message. Therefore you acknowledge that all posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author and not the administrators, moderators or webmaster (except for posts by these people) and hence will not be held liable.

The /runescape website gives nothing of the sort (that I can find at least.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can understand that tip.it is not the author when it specifically says it's by Duke Freedom or some other person, but "The Editor" sounds very much as though it's someone who's a staff member and therefore as a staff member their comments reflect on the staff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just my $0.02

[Arumunus]

 

 

 

Without the extensive documentation which fansites provide, people wouldn't know just how much better the P2P game is. Jagex would not be where they are today without their fansite community. They'd do well to realise that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll refrain from using bad language but that is total rubbish. Sure tip it has helped jagex to get to its standard today however without jagex you guys wouldn't exist. Also if jagex did a poll you find that tip.it in almost every case was found after the user found runescape. Besides jagex supply a perfectly good guide about p2p.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finally congratz to tip.it and jagex for kicking up this huge arguement in the first place :D

[Wilmot]

Well, I realise the editor needs to have an opinion or no one will bother to read it..but I don't agree with this one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do agree that the *method* of contact was incorrect. Simply an official pm using their message system to a few appointed contacts wihin the fansite community would have been better. Or a news post on the frontpage better still, simply informing everyone of their request.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, I definately see why they would want the guide with held. There are a lot of people that just follow a guide and get no real satisfaction out of a quest - what's the point? Personally, I confess I might look at a guide if I was really stuck, or it was just a little prerequsite quest. But having quest guides up a mere day or so after the hardest puzzle in runescape is released hardly makes it the hardest puzzle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have something like 90 QP and I havn't done heros - but when I do do a quest, I find them much more fun if I don't use a guide. Like desert treasure - an excelent quest thats much more enjoyable if you work it out on your own.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Basicly, I think jagex has no time for people with 170 QP, that did every single one by following a guide. I don't either.

[Dadevilsidol]

 

 

 

I'll refrain from using bad language but that is total rubbish. Sure tip it has helped jagex to get to its standard today however without jagex you guys wouldn't exist. Also if jagex did a poll you find that tip.it in almost every case was found after the user found runescape. Besides jagex supply a perfectly good guide about p2p.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finally congratz to tip.it and jagex for kicking up this huge arguement in the first place :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah I think you need to realise that tip it will be around long after RS is gone. There are lots of people who use these boards now who don't play RS. Without these boards I would have left RS extremely quickly. The tip it community was always better than the gaming community. I kept playing RS for way too many years because of the friends I met here. I paid again for a month over the summer just to see the people I missed from here. Certainly wasn't because I missed the game. Tip it may have been found after joining RS but we'll all be stopping by here long after we've finished with RS.

[blennas]

meh ill just wait till guide comes out ill be hopefulyl 90 slay by then

[vicfung3]

Lmao the guide is already out. :roll:

[banditx31]

http://rune-market.com/guides-quests.php?sub=96

use the off-topic board for this.

[Mementh]

couppla thing i think need to happen/change

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sites should respect Jagex and not release a guide.. a hints/basic info.. ok... nothing more.

 

 

 

Jagex

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How to stop a guide? you can't... its just not possable... i mean if you make it so complex (see recruitment drive) that there are parts not everyone sees.. eventually enough people will see it all to make a guide

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personaly will REFERANCE a guide or have somone help me though it. for the hard ones. (Desert treasure, and this one)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

now, the lighter ones i might check the items needed.. and thats it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reguarding improving contact/general rants

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 official fansites

 

 

 

are required to have basic READ ONLY access to EVERY file by jagex for a virus scan at RANDOM TIMES

 

 

 

if using forums MUST host the sigs themselves (Since people like me host there own i would be SOL)

 

 

 

(Note, Accounts on forums would be based by RSN only, only accounts in the official public list (to official fan sites) could be setup via some means on the rs site)

 

 

 

(this is done to prevent people using exploits, and since all known exploits are detectable it would be SAFER)

 

 

 

(please note i said DETECTABLE)

 

 

 

If a user is caught UPLOADING a detected image its saved and catoragized for jagex/site to determin why a known vunerability was allowed in.

 

 

 

If user is caught JAgex would have there ip and RSN and have the option to punish.

 

 

 

By allowsing certain sites to have "official" forums they can reduce there manegment burden (of course there would be require Jmods and Fmods allowed to moderate)

 

 

 

(this would allow people like me who pretty much use only tip.it and others and refrain from using the current "official forums" to have the features of, Sigs, e-mail notification, and personal pm's)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are given three types of quest guides. (to be created by fans)

 

 

 

Basic info, items needed for quest.

 

 

 

Basic info, items needed for quest, and Javescript hidden *hints*

 

 

 

Full blone Step by step guide.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 Official fansites are unblocked in game. and can be said without worry

 

 

 

Official fansites will be posted as LINKS on a (guess what) *OFFICIAL FANSITE LIST*

 

 

 

Fansites are allowed access to talk to mods about updates

 

 

 

(Ie are told to expect a quest or given the basics info for there sites)

 

 

 

Fansites are allowed use of images and such that are created by jagex.

 

 

 

Fansites can not promote any sort of ILLEGAL things such as hacks, char sharing. or account selling/rl selling

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 Jagex will create a better client.

 

 

 

which has access to the official fansites. calculators. and skill planners.

 

 

 

Jagex may allow *official* clients (honestly using Swift switch is using a "official" client and RS can't detect that its there. (why do you ask? because Swift switch does the SAME THING the "official" client does. it uses the rendering engine that Internet explorer uses. this is commonly done in the "mod" community to create "tabbed browsing" and other enchancments

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4 Jagex will make ALL features available in the IE browser aviliable. (the only things not avilable is MIDI and Sounds since they use a "active scripting code"

 

 

 

this will remove vunerabilitys that IE has. (Firefox even those vunerabilitys found are not ever a threat since they are patched within 3-5 days on average (compaired with the JPG vunerability bug found in MSIE which had a "proof of concept" (this is where somone demonstraits the vunerability but does not release it) to microsoft and they did not fix it for 5-14 months))

[Junkieman]

 

Just so everyone knows, the Editor's comments are not representative of any of the Tip.It staff or an official Tip.It view.

If I just look at the tip.it website without delving deep into this thread, it gives the opposite impression. IMHO tip.it needs to take responsibility for anything posted on the tip.it website.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can understand that tip.it is not the author when it specifically says it's by Duke Freedom or some other person, but "The Editor" sounds very much as though it's someone who's a staff member and therefore as a staff member their comments reflect on the staff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just my $0.02

 

 

 

Admittedly, they should state that the views of the articles are not representative of any of the tip.it staff or the site official view at the bottom or somewhere on the same page as the tip.it times article, just like jagex does with their letters pages.

[banditx31]

Admittedly, they should state that the views of the articles are not representative of any of the tip.it staff or the site official view at the bottom or somewhere on the same page as the tip.it times article, just like jagex does with their letters pages.

ya so the writer would not cause the wrong person to get the blame.

[razzzzzza]

I Agree with it all but jagex has a search feature on the forums. :roll:

[archimage_a]

does it really matter. Jagex asked for something you delivered. you are honerable they arn't. Jagex owes you so that the end of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex can ask if they wish, no one was going to force anyone else to do anything

[residentev23]

:twisted: THIS IS WRONG of Jagex to tell us what to do! Jagex is LETTING us use the game BUT we as members of the game PAY for it we do not just pay the golf course to golf on it then have them tell us how to golf on it! :twisted: :evil: :shock:

[crazedfred]

Okay, realise that fansites will appear, many with "spoilers", on the internet about ANY game not matter what the company wishes. Do you realise how long it would take me to "steal" all of Tip-It's guides and reports (not counting forums)? MAYBE two hours. That means that even if Tip-It was illegal, which it is not, anybody could very easily host a new site. Jagex cannot stop fansites, and they definitely should not try to. If anything, they should try to make quests that are not so blatantly easy to make a guide for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: in retrospect, some of the above sounds threatening; know that while I could steal Tip-It's data, I have NO intentions of doing so for any reason.

[Hobgoblin11]

:twisted: THIS IS WRONG of Jagex to tell us what to do! Jagex is LETTING us use the game BUT we as members of the game PAY for it we do not just pay the golf course to golf on it then have them tell us how to golf on it! :twisted: :evil: :shock:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, yes we do - there are etiquettes to a golf course that must be followed to play, and sometimes we also pay for a golf coach to tell us exactly how to play golf, so in a sense, we are paying them to tell us how to 'golf' And by the way, 'to glf' is not a rel verb :twisted:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But fair point otherwise, just a bad example :lol:

[Teaberry]

 

 

 

1 official fansites

 

 

 

are required to have basic READ ONLY access to EVERY file by jagex for a virus scan at RANDOM TIMES

 

 

 

 

 

 

Every single fansite in the entire world already implements this. How can you view a site if you cannot read the files? You'd just get "Access Denied".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You, me, your Aunt Ethel or Jagex could scan for viruses, trojans or derogatory comments about how Andrew Gower eats his toast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you're so uptight about viruses, I think you should install some antivirus application and stop installing viruses from the Internet (they do not install themselves, this goes doubly so for keyloggers). I recommend Avast or AVG, they're free for home use and very good. They also won't break your PC in the way that Norton AV will.

[runesmithie]

I Agree with it all but jagex has a search feature on the forums. :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And have you ever used it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Worst Thing Ever award...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It ONLY searches titles...

[highlanders]

I AGREE! When I read that Jagex had prevented tip.it from publishing the guide I was like 'they dare do that?'. If I had been the one in charge I would have certainly not bowed to such request. Seriously, who they think they are?

[learn2die101]

well you are only suppoused to use quest guides if you are stumped. quests are suppoused to be fun so make them fun and just go with the flow 8)

[grin_king]

Quick clarification on a few things :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, it turned out that the "request" was not an "official" one, even though it came from a J-mod.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

More than 1 site was requested not to publish, or to remove if they had already published, their guide. We were the only one to comply with the request to not publish - although I believe the RV guys may have gotten word of the request a little late... and they were, to my knowledge, the only other site to not publish (or remove after publishing) their guide.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

After discussing the issue with Andrew, it was decided it was a waste of time having only 2 sites withholding the guide, so the day after these discussions took place, the Guide was released on Tip.it. RV were contacted via PM on their forums to advise them of this so they, too, could release their guide.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As previously mentioned by one of the posters, Tip.it used to have a policy of delaying guides for at least 24 hours after a quest was released. This policy was stopped at the time that too many opposing fan-sites were starting up and releasing their guides immediately - making Tip.it one of the later ones to have a Guide (even if they WERE better Guides, IMO heh). Now, even though Tip.it is essentially non-profit, it still needs to make cash in order to pay for the servers it uses to run the website and forums... and if things continued the way they were, too many users would choose to use sites other than Tip.it purely for the fact that the guides weren't out fast enough on Tip.it for the users' liking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So - the choice to remove our 24hour+ policy for releasing guides was purely one of survival.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, for my own personal opinion (which The Editors' article also was, btw... a personal opinion).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally, I think that Jagex have a right to ask the fan-sites to delay a guide. However, if the sites DO comply, the ones that do should get some form of recognition - be it better direct communication or something... i'm not sure. But they (Jagex) need to remember that, as much as we're here for our users, and for the game... we still have bills to pay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would quite like to be able to go back to delaying the Guides for a day or two... but I can pretty guarantee it will never happen, purely for economical reasons. There are far too many fan-sites out there now which couldn't give a toss about what Jagex think, and will release the guides ASAP. If the major sites all carried on delaying their Guides, their userbase would slowly drift away to the smaller, lesser-known ones... until the major sites *became* the smaller, lesser-known ones.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In regards to The Editors' article... personally I think it *was* a little over the top - however, i'll admit, when I first heard the request, my reaction was considerably stronger than that of the Editor, until I had time to sit down and think it over. My initial reaction was "Stuff them, i'll go whip up a guide now and post it right away"...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, fortunately, I remembered why it is we're here, and what we're about. Yes - a large part of it is you guys, our community members. But, right at the core - it's about the game itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Communication between Jagex and its' fan-based communities has been mentioned a number of times here, and I have to say that I agree that something really DOES need to be done by Jagex to try and improve this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We used to have direct communication with Jagex... but as they have grown, that communication has become less and less useable... and has now become nigh on inexistent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Too many times in the recent past, I have seen/heard of "official" directives, requests, comments, rule-makings being done through non-official channels. It's these occurrences that make the request that has prompted this entire thread considerable more plausible/believable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Jagex had a more structured official contact system in place for its' users (which it currently kinda has with the contact centre) and its' fan-sites (which it doesn't have, at all, aside from in-game communication which isn't acceptable), then things like the request that has caused this entire uproar wouldn't happen... or at least wouldn't be taken as official "Jagex" business.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is my own personal belief that, without the major fansites that have been here for years, Jagex, and certainly RuneScape wouldn't be anywhere near as large as they are today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and one quick note before I finish off this post - someone mentioned something about Copyright issues with fan-sites using images from RuneScape, and that Jagex could get nasty about it... I think you'll find that the words "non-profit" and "educational" should cover that use under International Copyright laws rather nicely... although Tip.it has actually requested (and been granted) permission from Jagex in the past to be able to use their images.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In summary :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The request to delay wasn't an official Jagex request (although we didn't realise this at first, given it was from a J-mod)

 

 

 

The request was honoured by only (to my knowledge) 2 sites.

 

 

 

The delay was shortened after discussion with Andrew, who also personally thought the delay was a good thing.

 

 

 

I personally think that Jagex need to spend a little time/effort on their community relations. Help those who help you...

[Mementh]

 

 

 

 

1 official fansites

 

 

 

are required to have basic READ ONLY access to EVERY file by jagex for a virus scan at RANDOM TIMES

 

 

 

 

 

 

Every single fansite in the entire world already implements this. How can you view a site if you cannot read the files? You'd just get "Access Denied".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You, me, your Aunt Ethel or Jagex could scan for viruses, trojans or derogatory comments about how Andrew Gower eats his toast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you're so uptight about viruses, I think you should install some antivirus application and stop installing viruses from the Internet (they do not install themselves, this goes doubly so for keyloggers). I recommend Avast or AVG, they're free for home use and very good. They also won't break your PC in the way that Norton AV will.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am 100% as secure as possable

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the reason i said this was because of this

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

a FTP access allows jagex to see ALL FILES....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

trust me.. there are files that this forum uses that you know NOTHING about. Why? because its done server side.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also a site could HIDE stuff in a unlisted dir. on there site.... i have done it on my small webserver :\

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also think by given jagex the ability to read all files gives them a chance to catch things that the site admins might not.