Tip.It Times: Jagex interfering?

[shadowbot]

I dont see why Jagex should ask a tip site to withhold quest information. If players want to try it themselves, cant they just try it themselves? Its not like having the guide up is going to ruin it for the players who dont want to use a guide, because those players will go and do it anyways without looking at a guide.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If jagex thinks quest guides are such a big deal, why dont they create quests that cant be guided?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Speaking as a person who already cant stand the fact that jagex even forces us to do quests (and yes i do consider it forced, since they lock up certain portions of the game until you quest) I hate quests and just want them over with, so i can get back to working on the skills i prefer. Jumping through hoops running around gathering items is not my idea of a "fun quest" I should have the option as a player, to play this way. I dont appreciate jagex "requesting" that the fansite i get quest guides from, withhold the guide.

[crossfire39]

Well I have missed feeling about this. It really should be the fan sites choice to put up the guide or not, but we should also respect the time that they spent on this quest to make it a challenge. They even asked, I hope, respectivly for the fan sites not to put it up. Maybe they should have asked for possibly a months delay or so. Well thats my view on this.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I've got to weigh in on the situation. Please note these are my personal opinions and don't even come close to reflecting my home fansites' opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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At first, when I heard that Tip.It had recived an "offical" request on not to launch a guide, I was skeptical, but respected that they wanted to be obediant to Jagex (for whatever reason is beyond me).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do work for another fansite, and we did publish virtually immediately. The sad thing is, none of the staff (at where I'm working) heard ANYTHING from Jagex. This really upset me, but my feeling was to "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We steamed ahead, and to find out later it really wasn't an "offical" request. I'm saddened at the lack of communication with Runescape and their fansites; it used to be so strong that J-Mods (as they are now called) could come to the forums, chat, chill and just be cool. Now, where's that Renaissance gone? I believe it's been buried under 150K players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm suprised that such massive sites such as Tip.it and Runevillage actually *heeded* this request...it's not even up to Jagex to decide what goes where on those sites. Sure, they created the content, but the breakdown in communication really screwed that one up IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It really makes me upset that Jagex hasn't had a plan to resolve this breakdown in communication. I mean, they've PROMISED fansites a place to advertise, but..."Money (action) talks, bull walks." Looks like this one's hitch-hiking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As a fansite it's only the Administrators' obligation to put out content. And yes, being the first to do it is VERY important, you do have bills to pay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Makoto

[nog]

 

...Smells of a power strugle within :(

 

 

 

Not at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With respect to the old policy about quest guides, they would never be released within the first two or three days. This was at Jagex's request bak in the day. However that changed long ago, and we've been releasing our guides as soon as they're ready for over 6 months if not more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just so everyone knows, the Editor's comments are not representative of any of the Tip.It staff or an official Tip.It view. He/She just writes the weekly stuff based on his/her opinions and instigates some pretty interesting discussion :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Point taken - I needed help with the last wo doors myself - legs were getting tired from running up and down the stairs :) :)

[silver6]

Look, Jagex has no control over what other sites do or dont do for that matter....OK?

 

 

 

I can understand that Jagex wants to throw out the line and let the little fish fall all over themselves in defeat attempting to do a quest that Jagex tried to make really hard for those who play the game, but telling a site not to put out a guide is for the birds.

 

 

 

Take a good look at the Jagex website, and you have to agree that there is not much in the way of "community" or help. Their forums page runs only a certain amount of posts and when the posts get over the limit they get bumped off the forum all together. The whole point of the game was suppose to be community and since rs2 has come out that has fallen right off the edge of the internet. So, where do runescapers go to get the sense of community? TO OTHER FAN SITES of course! And in these other sites they get the help they need and when someone asks where they got the help, they will tell you which site they went to.

 

 

 

I, myself have had some issues with the way the game is set up lately and have been checking out other game sites. With the exception of Everquest, which by the way can be expensive as "fuzzy bunny", my searchs have turned up fruitless as there seems to be very few mpgs that can compete with RS. So, it is now my undertaking to create an online mpg that surpasses RS for the same price just to show them that they are not the only ones out there and to give them a bit of healthy competition because they still have a lot to learn.

[silver6]

wasnt jagex saying please do not post the guide until Monday????? Hmmm seems all the RS fan sites did exactly what Jagex wanted them to do. So I guess this means that even as much as we are "fuzzy bunny" we still did exactly what the masters ordered.

[nemera]

 

 

 

Just so everyone knows, the Editor's comments are not representative of any of the Tip.It staff or an official Tip.It view. He/She just writes the weekly stuff based on his/her opinions and instigates some pretty interesting discussion :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ummm.. then why, if it is not the "official" view, is it on the front page for everyone to read? I am new here, was looking for some information about a monster, and i get confronted by what seems to me like a school kid having a tantrum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex didn't demand anything. They asked. They didn't say take it down or we'll ban you! Personally I have far more respect for RV and HQ for taking it down for a while, and will be "voting with my feet" as someone here said. The childish rant by the editor has put me off using tipit, that's for sure - and the funny bit about it all? If you didn't want to take it down, you didn't have to... but it was! Only after the fact did the editor throw a wobbly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the manner of contacting tipit, Jagex time and again states that they will not contact you via email. Emails are so easy to spoof it's untrue! It's on their website in plain English, or does the editor not read the FAQ's on RuneScape.com?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Utterly disgusted,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nemera.

[Doom_Doom_Drummer]

I realy don't have time to read all posts here but I tell you one. They are not the kings having slaves (fan sites). If creators of this fan site choose it to be without any good thing OR with the best things possible, it's their choice. Jagex can't say anything about it unless the creators of the fan site are stupid enough to obey!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW: No worrys mods. I don't think you stupid...

[Baelrog86]

I agree totally with The Editor on this subject. I for one was very dissappointed in Jagex with their actions. I for one have more important things to do then to do a very frustrating quest in order to only recieve the reward of 20k agility exp and the ability to craft death runes.

[nemera]

So don't do it. No one is holding a gun to your head and saying DO THE QUEST!

[Boideverou07]

While not having read all eight pages, I can only comment to an extent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would have to say I am a neutral party over this decision, based on part of how Jagex were to go about this and how the editor reacts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While I do believe that Jagex should be allowed, to some extent, to dictate what is published on any fansite. Fansites, although not formally recognized, are a large part of Jagex Ltd. and RuneScape.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Jagex were to request that you remove all quest guides, or with-hold one quest guide because it gives viewers major spoilers, it would most likely be in your best interest if you believe that, one day, if Jagex implements a fansite program, that you will be regarded as one of the top few, to remove those said guides.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fansites are meant to give hints at helping within the game. However, a full-fledged guide gives the viewer a hint x10

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the other hand, in Jagex' fansite F.A.Q. it is stated that you can publish whatever content you so wish, as long as said content does not conflict with Jagex' Terms + Conditions. Furthermore, viewing these guides totally optional and no one person is dictated to view a guide.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As the old proverb goes, "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime." So perhaps you should be teaching viewers how to solve Jagex' riddles as opposed to giving a step-through-step walkthrough guide of a newly released quest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now on to the editor. I believe the editor of this times article was truly out of line. I should not be one to dictate what this line is, but I will offer my opinion. One should not be abusing their powers of the publication of this site with anti-Jagex policy articles. That will especially not go over well with Jagex as well as disgruntled customers of Jagex and users of this site. Perhaps, a single topic within these forums, not an entire article devoted to the deploring your opinion of a Jagex policy (not even a policy, a request) into viewers simply because you have the power to.

[zammy10423]

they have caused many recent problems, tho i didnt need this guide atm, really all i think it has done was mock the work of those who pushed to do the quest AND write up something for us in the future could use. Jagex involing themsleves was bogus, if they were so worried about it they could have just rleased it last month with less puzzles :evil:

[sabersiva_]

Ok, I didn't read all 8 pages, so I might be saying what someone before me have already said. But it seems like the editor is bashing on jagex. I mean, Jagex made a request, and a very reasonable one, a request which tip.it agreed to. As a fan site, Tip.it is already going to and beyond the call of duty here, but keep in mind, that tip.it is players that like the game, that are making a fan site and a game of their own based on the original, while Jagex is a multi-million dollar company. Why should Jagex go out of its way to make, no offense, fan site owners a steady income, by making the fan site 'official' and selling merchandise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm with Jagex on this one. Jagex asked, and tip.it, out of courtesy, agreed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From a personal standpoint, if i were Jagex, i wouldn't let tip.it publish such indepth guides. Jagex works hard to create innovative and challenging quests, of which tip.it solves for the lazy bunch. This isn't to say that helping lazy, perhaps non-intrested, players do quests is tip.it's only value.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One last point, I saw some people saying that they dont have the time to do the quests for a mere exp points, or another. This raises the question of whether Runescape is a game to play and enjoy, of which includes solving puzzles, or rather Runescape is a life and death fight, of which all quests must be completed or bust.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whatever your stance is on the subject...This was not the place to bring up the issue at all. feeling that Runescape owes tip.it is not the way to look at it, and having such a public display of a member of tip.it is what i find embarassing. I've used this site for years, and think of myself as a part of it, this is a bit wierd having there be such open resentment.

[MetalGod]

However, you need to think: Jagex worked hard to make this quest challenging, and they don't want little "guide-noobs" doing it in a day...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hahaha i love ur sig! andrew... what was he doing?!

[The_Avatar]

well you the "editor" in my opinion are completely wrong on this. It was a very big quest that jagex had been working on for a very long time

 

 

 

they dont need guides giving away the mystery of the quest why give away guides and ruin it im sorry but it was right of them to ask sites to not give out guides for that time. why shouldnt they be able to ask you to not release it its not your creation if you released somthing that you had been working on for a long time that you wanted to remain a mystery and somone just goes out and tells everyone the answer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

im APPALLED that you would even get mad at jagex for doing this i find you people rude and ridiculous

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:put editor instead of tip it crew

[lambspeak]

When I saw that Jagex had intervened in this matter, I was appalled. It sets a dangerous precedent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hopefully Tip.It has learned its lesson: Jagex cannot censor you (because that is exactly where such actions lead to: Censorship).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hopefully this will never come up again, but if it does, don't give in!!

[lordkrohn1626]

However, you need to think: Jagex worked hard to make this quest challenging, and they don't want little "guide-noobs" doing it in a day...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hehe, *dons his guide noob and proud t-shirt*

[Mementh]

When I saw that Jagex had intervened in this matter, I was appalled. It sets a dangerous precedent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hopefully Tip.It has learned its lesson: Jagex cannot censor you (because that is exactly where such actions lead to: Censorship).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hopefully this will never come up again, but if it does, don't give in!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hopefully jagex will realize how silly it is to make super hard quests that have no in built guides

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

honeslty if they toned down the shadows

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and gave some in game guides

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

they could make the quest 3x as hard (more puzzle)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

its the fighting aspect thats a problem for this quests.. it adds TOO MUCH complexity for the average player

[DroolMAN]

I would like to start by stating the uncanny resemblance on part of "The Editor's" comments when compared with my personal comments in a different post, as quoted below: -

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lastly, IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢d like to return to my original point about the ME2 quest guide request. The fan sites who have not released guides are in no way affiliated with Jagex and should be under no obligation to fulfill their ludicrous request. Their top-most priority is their users and how they can help them. It should be up to the users to decide if they do or do not want to use the guides provided. Jagex have damaged the reputation of the fan sites that have honoured their request, undoubtedly impacted on their advertising revenue and perhaps even reduced their user base.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, regarding the matter about posting the guide in tip.it, I would have to agree with Artie 900. The way that I see it: -

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Tip.it is not affiliated to Jagex, so the latter is stepping out of boundaries when they dictate what should or should not be published on a independent fansite not sponsored by them in any way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) By not publishing the walkthrough that has already been prepared is like taking away the choice from your loyal fans. We should have a choice on whether we want to read the guide or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) Visitors come to Tip.it to look for help in the game. I mean, come on, I was lost for hours and in the end, I had to go to a different fansite to get the answers. Why force your fans to leave your site is something I cannot understand?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) I also have to agree that Tip.it is extremely obliging to Jagex at the expense of the fans. This is a fansite for the fans and the fansÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ interest comes first! It is the fans that kept clicking the banners to keep the site online. Does Jagex worry if Tip.it goes under? No. It is the fans that care about the site and keeps contributing to the site and forums.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bottomline, I think Tip.it should sort out their priorities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That aside, I have to add that Jagex and fansites form a simpatico which is mutually beneficial. Jagex creates the service and substance while fansites provide value-added user content. I know for a fact that my friends got interested in Runescape after I have introduced them to Tip.it and the wealth of information that the site provides.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, there are many other similar fansites vying for more users and they are offering even more value-added goodies to entice newcomers, such as dynamic signatures, on-the-fly calculators, special guides, etc. Unless Tip.it is constantly updating itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s content and offering superior solutions, it will loose out to itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s competitors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ThatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s where having Jagex request Tip.it to withhold the publication of the guide and the admin complied by playing the waiting game doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t help the site and the community at all. And to add salt to the wound, a user-submitted guide in the forums was intentionally removed. This is such a slap to the usersÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ face. Why should anyone post anything of value in the forums? I mean, Jagex said donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t publish in the main site, there was nothing said, based on common knowledge, about removing user-posted guide in the forums. If this keeps up, I would not be surprised guides are moved from Tip.it forums by the authors to other fansites.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Autonomy should be observed. Fansites are run by the fans for the fans and all of these are done on voluntary basis. The revenues generated by banner-clicking by the fans are used to maintain the servers and bandwidth. Unless Jagex has some sort of monetary incentive plan worked out to benefit the Tip.it, boundaries should not be crossed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you look from a different angle, can anyone actually stop publications on the Internet completely? To think so, is a sign of a delusional mind. So Jagex should stop victimizing Tip.it and other prominent fansites while the smaller sites flourish. If Jagex wants to exercise itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s rights to request fansites to withhold content publication, however imprudent that may be, make sure every fansite gets the message instead of targeting veteran sites that have been supporting them all these years.

[de_louka]

I find it simple...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Not all players like to think hours about quests, but just want the reward, for this people quest helps are necessary to keep the game fun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) If players want to spend lors of effort on a quest then they can just not look at the quest help

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) If jagex wants quest help to disappear they should just make quests that u can't use quest help for? With for example random puzzles, etc...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quest help is for myself necessary cause I REALLY HATE quests from the deepest of my heart, but I love to use ice magic?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So tip.it crew, go on the way u're doing it *bows* I'm your biggest fan since septembre 2002 ;) (the swifty times :D )

[joeynew]

they did infact make a quest with random puzles!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ok but anyways i think you shouldnt complain with jagex much because even if they do ask you to do something like that its not manditory and they cant like ban the site for it... they just wont to give the people that can figure out the quest on there own some time to do it b4 all there frends do it with the guide

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i realy think you are complaining too much about the isue (wich souldnt be a problem in the first place)

[Eng]

i think there running out of quest's/ideas so everytime a fansite release's a quest guide 100's of people are stuck with nothing to do in rs again....

[Heisenberg]

Still, Tip.it has been here for ages, and is probably the most respected fansite, especially for users that have been around for 4+ years

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  AHAHAHAAHA

[Spencerhim]

I am discusted at the way they contacted u and i think they have no right to do that but i dont think its hurt ur popularty - i think its made all the ppl who have seen what you wrote realise that jagex isnt an amazing company but i still think RuneScape is a good game

[RoswellCrash]

You say you try to get guides out as fast as posible well thats not very fast with tip.it is it... this is a better site than others but it is kinda slow at times!