obfuscator Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 West and east are completely opposite atm. Still, leafs play the sens and the isles next...two games that should be winnable. If win, then we'll be at 60 points, 2 (or maybe 4 by that time) out of 8th :D "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foursideking Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Meh...I'd love to see the lak make the playoffs. After all, they're more or less proof that you can build a team purely out of draft picks/rookies. Oh, and I misread that thing from earlier. The trade was giguere to florida for a 3rd and conditional 4th rounder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Well the west is so tight atm LA isn't out of it by any means. I hope CGY makes it, though I'd love for Col to do so as well. "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unkn0wnwarrior Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 In the West, the only team not pretty much guaranteed a spot yet I really care about is Calgary. Maybe the Jackets, too. The Jackets only because of Nash and Mason, though. I don't really see Giguere being traded, but not for lack of effort. Also, Kaberle mentioned in an interview that he would love to play in the post-season again, especially in Toronto. So there is very little chance he will waive the no-trade for a non-contender. And as was said earlier, If the Leafs win the next 2, we're within legitimate reach of a playoff spot. Still, I think a couple of those teams between us and 7th have games in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 In the West, the only team not pretty much guaranteed a spot yet I really care about is Calgary. Maybe the Jackets, too. The Jackets only because of Nash and Mason, though. I don't really see Giguere being traded, but not for lack of effort. Also, Kaberle mentioned in an interview that he would love to play in the post-season again, especially in Toronto. So there is very little chance he will waive the no-trade for a non-contender. And as was said earlier, If the Leafs win the next 2, we're within legitimate reach of a playoff spot. Still, I think a couple of those teams between us and 7th have games in hand.Buffalo and Florida both have 2 GIH. NJ has one - and I'm worried about them. I wonder if they may even make a push for a playoff spot (getting closer every day). Kaberle imo will only accept a trade to Philly, Tampa, Boston, Pittsburgh, Washington, Montreal, NYR, Carolina, Buffalo or Atlanta. I do believe him when he says he wants to stay in Toronto, and to be honest I wouldn't mind seeing him resigned (as long as it wouldn't be over 4.5mil, 2-3 years). If they get rid of him, they're defensive offence goes down to practically zero when it's low already. That said, if they can get someone really good for him I'd be willing to see him go. Thing is, I don't think they can. I hope they send him, khadri, and philly's first to tampa for stamkos haha. "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foursideking Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Lol...I'd love to see kaberle traded to tampa...possibly him and a draft pick for lecavalier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Ew hell no. Lecavalier's contract is probably the worst one in the league. "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blyaunte Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 West and east are completely opposite atm. Still, leafs play the sens and the isles next...two games that should be winnable. If win, then we'll be at 60 points, 2 (or maybe 4 by that time) out of 8th :D Which does what, exactly? Puts a weak Toronto team into the the playoffs. Yay! :rolleyes: That's no better than the Harold Ballard days. Really. This has been the problem with Leaf teams every year since 1967. The fans don't care how good the team is, just so long as it makes the playoffs -- they will continue to buy tickets. <_< Toronto fans have got to stop this "we can make the playoffs this year" [cabbage], and start looking for a team that is serious about re-building into a cup contender. To do that, they need draft picks and lots of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foursideking Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 @yguy: naw, it isn't. Remember kovalchuk's. And @blyaunte: I tend to agree with you for most of it. It seems that every time toronto has a legitimate chance of rebuilding, they blow it by making a playoff push. Remember a few years ago? Toronto was 2nd last in the league, and rather than lose/get a decent pick, they won 4 straight and 'nerfed' their chances of getting a good pick. If the team was smart, then they'd purposely lose their games for 1 season. Sure, it may lower attendance, but it'd give them better picks, and overall make their team better in the longrun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Is_Great Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Kovi has a cap hit of like 6m... more than reasonable. Horcoff has a 7m cap hit, lol. But he's a great person and hard worker, also a mentor to our rookies, wins faceoffs, so I don't mind him at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 West and east are completely opposite atm. Still, leafs play the sens and the isles next...two games that should be winnable. If win, then we'll be at 60 points, 2 (or maybe 4 by that time) out of 8th :D Which does what, exactly? Puts a weak Toronto team into the the playoffs. Yay! :rolleyes: That's no better than the Harold Ballard days. Really. This has been the problem with Leaf teams every year since 1967. The fans don't care how good the team is, just so long as it makes the playoffs -- they will continue to buy tickets. <_< Toronto fans have got to stop this "we can make the playoffs this year" [cabbage], and start looking for a team that is serious about re-building into a cup contender. To do that, they need draft picks and lots of them. Toronto is rebuilding. That's why they're trading away all of their old players for prospects and draft picks. Just because we're rebuilding doesn't mean we can't hope for some reward. I don't understand this "must have high draft picks" attitude. It's worked for the penguins and that's about it. There are a ton of other teams who've gone that route with nothing to show for it (or no cup, at least0. Ottawa (way back), NYI, STL, LAK, COL...the list goes on and on. I think Burke is aiming to streamline the process a little bit by going for prospects and young players rather than simply picks, and it's too early to tell whether it's working or not. I've no delusions of cup victory for Toronto - I imagine that if they made the playoffs they'd be rather unceremoniously kicked out in the first round. Still, making the playoffs would be a sign of progress, which everyone wants to see. @yguy: naw, it isn't. Remember kovalchuk's. And @blyaunte: I tend to agree with you for most of it. It seems that every time toronto has a legitimate chance of rebuilding, they blow it by making a playoff push. Remember a few years ago? Toronto was 2nd last in the league, and rather than lose/get a decent pick, they won 4 straight and 'nerfed' their chances of getting a good pick. If the team was smart, then they'd purposely lose their games for 1 season. Sure, it may lower attendance, but it'd give them better picks, and overall make their team better in the longrun... Kovi's cap hit is 6.6, lecavalier's is 7.3. Kovi is also significantly younger and with a much better production. It's not just about the money - for example would you call 10 years, $100 mil for sidney crosby a bad contract? "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blyaunte Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 West and east are completely opposite atm. Still, leafs play the sens and the isles next...two games that should be winnable. If win, then we'll be at 60 points, 2 (or maybe 4 by that time) out of 8th :D Which does what, exactly? Puts a weak Toronto team into the the playoffs. Yay! :rolleyes: That's no better than the Harold Ballard days. Really. This has been the problem with Leaf teams every year since 1967. The fans don't care how good the team is, just so long as it makes the playoffs -- they will continue to buy tickets. <_< Toronto fans have got to stop this "we can make the playoffs this year" [cabbage], and start looking for a team that is serious about re-building into a cup contender. To do that, they need draft picks and lots of them. Toronto is rebuilding. That's why they're trading away all of their old players for prospects and draft picks. Just because we're rebuilding doesn't mean we can't hope for some reward. I don't understand this "must have high draft picks" attitude. It's worked for the penguins and that's about it. There are a ton of other teams who've gone that route with nothing to show for it (or no cup, at least0. Ottawa (way back), NYI, STL, LAK, COL...the list goes on and on. Let's see -- cup winners built on draft picks: Detroit, New Jersey, Pittsburgh, Chicago ... Teams that have at LEAST made a cup final, using draft picks: Ottawa, Philadelphia ... Expect to see Edmonton in the Cup run within 3-4 years, depending on how reliable their goaltending becomes. The Islanders are a long-lost cause -- the second most poorly managed team after Toronto. Los Angeles is up and coming -- so is Colorado. Expect both of them to contend this year, and if not this year, then soon. St. Louis is about as far away as contending as Edmonton. 'Nuff said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Let's see -- cup winners built on draft picks: Detroit, New Jersey, Pittsburgh, Chicago ... Teams that have at LEAST made a cup final, using draft picks: Ottawa, Philadelphia ... Expect to see Edmonton in the Cup run within 3-4 years, depending on how reliable their goaltending becomes. The Islanders are a long-lost cause -- the second most poorly managed team after Toronto. Los Angeles is up and coming -- so is Colorado. Expect both of them to contend this year, and if not this year, then soon. St. Louis is about as far away as contending as Edmonton. 'Nuff said! Detroit was built on draft picks? Lol. Edmonton's looking at at least another three years to make the playoffs. LA and Col have been "up and coming" for years - and Stl drafted Erik Johnson first overall....5 years ago. There is no single "right way" to rebuild. I believe BB knows what he's doing and toronto will be a contender within two years. But why exactly are the Isles a lost cause? They have a ton of first round picks... Also, the canucks started their rebuild ten years ago. They're only just looking like serious competition now. EDIT: Press conference today at 4:30. Looks like Kaberle to Boston for Joe Colbourne, 1st(BOS not TOR) and conditional 2nd. EDIT EDIT: Confirmed :( "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blyaunte Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Detroit was built on draft picks? Lol. Here's a cup of STFU -- players obtained by Detroit through the draft - year of draft- number of cups won:Steve Yzerman - 1983 - 3 cupsNik Lidstrom - 1989 - won 4 cupsSergei Federov - 1989 - won 3 cupsChris Osgood - 1991 - won 3 cupsMike Knuble - 1991 - won 2 cupsDarren McCarty - 1992 - won 4 cupsAnders Erikson - 1993 - won 2 cupsMathieu Dandenault - 1994 - won 3 cupsTomas Holstrom - 1994 - won 4 cupsJiri Fischer - 1998 - won 1 cupPavel Datsyuk - 1998 - won 2 cupsHenrik Zetterberg - 1999 - won 1 cupNiklas Kronwall - 2000 - won 1 cupTomas Kopecky - 2000 - won 1 cupJiri Hudler - 2001 - won 1 cupValtteri Filppula - 2002 - won 1 cupDerek Meech - 2002 - won 1 cupJon Franzen - 2004 - won 1 cupDarren Helm - 2005 - won 1 cup Now -- how many players has Toronto obtained through the draft, and won cups with? :unsure: THAT's right! STFU! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foursideking Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 @blyaunte: don't get me wrong, I agree with you. It's just that detroit is now away from the period of 'being built on draft picks'. Most of those players have either retired, or were traded, and as a team of this decade, they haven't really been known for that. As for 'teams built on draft picks with great cup odds', I think tampa and lak are the only teams that really have a chance. Tampa due to the fact that they got 2 good draft picks in 2 years (hedman and stamkos), and lak because their entire team is pretty young/full of all-around good players (namely jonathan quick, and their 2 star defencemen). Toronto is in a weird scenario, seeing as they need to start rebuilding NOW in order to actually have a shot at winning in the playoffs over the next few years. When will toronto win a playoff game? My prediction is that if they do it right, then they will be able to in 2015. If they continue on this downward spiral consisting of trading off draft picks and aquiring 6th-line players (which they then use as 1st/2nd string), then my prediction is 2030 to win a playoff game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faux Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 no wheeler, burke keeps my faith alive 2 first round picks now. time to holla @ dallas stars? :shades: (i'm kidding) :: Guess the Movie Contest Champion: pfilc23 :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foursideking Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I'd actually love to see dallas trade some of their picks, seeing as their picks are like the roulette game of the nhl (in that dallas always finishes really high in the league, or really low). As for the kovi vs lecavalier thing: kovi's salary is way worse than lecavalier's due to the position of the years. After this season, kovi still has another 14 years/141m left on his deal, whereas vinny has 3years/18.5 left. Do the math, and you'll see that kovi screws you in the longrun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Is_Great Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Except if Kovi starts to regain his scoring touch. Annual 40 goals 80 points is much better than Levacalier... And wow, lots of trades today :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foursideking Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Anyone care to post some of the trades? Current celly I'm on doesn't get any sports channels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faux Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 [ATL/BOS]: Peverley and Valabik for Wheeler and Stuart[sTL/TB] Eric Brewer to Tampa Bay for 3rd round pick and Brock Beukeboom[COL/OTT]: Brian Elliott for Craig Anderson[CAR/SJ] Ian White for 2012 2nd Round Pick[sJS/CAR] Derek Joslin for Future Considerations ^ recent trades this is what burke's done so far: TRADED:F Kris VersteegD Francois BeaucheminD Tomas Kaberle ACQUIRED:F Joe ColborneF Joffrey LupulD Jake GardinerPHI 1st Round Pick ('11)BOS 1st Round Pick ('11) BOS 2nd Round Pick ('12)PHI 3rd Round Pick ('11)ANA 4th Round Pick ('13)$6.2M Cap Space :: Guess the Movie Contest Champion: pfilc23 :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foursideking Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Well, the colorado gm is an idiot for trading anderson away for elliot. Elliot is a decent back-up at best, wheras anderson is a top vezina contender. Burke's decisions seem smart, after all, he got a pretty good forward in lupul, a bunch of decent picks, and enough cap space to aquire one of those 'big name players'. Now all he needs to do is get either 2 good centers off free agency, and/or trade some of those draft picks for more/better ones in the future (ie: a 2011pick for 2 2013's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 etc etc My mistake. I didn't realize Detroit had drafted that many players. That said, this "strip down and rebuild on picks" approach doesn't always work, as I've already demonstrated. For every team that has successfully won a cup by rebuilding with picks there are two that haven't. There's no single "right way" to rebuild. For example - Edmonton has been rebuilding just as long as Toronto has yet TO is much closer to being a playoff contender then Edmonton is. You also didn't answer my question about what made the islanders so hopeless. They've done precisely as you suggested and tanked many years to get good draft picks...and where has it gotten them, exactly? Philly was a cup contender last year and is even better this year, yet they've never undertaken a rebuild. It's been five years since atlanta started rebuilding and it's obvious they still have a ways to go. As I said earlier, van drafted the sedins 10+ years ago and they're just now beginning to be competitive. Using detroit as a standard for what every team can achieve is frankly unrealistic. ----------------------------------------------- Trades: Well Kaba's finally gone. Got a great return but a serious offence hole in the D now. Don't know how they're going to fix that.... I'd take brad richards, but I'd prefer as an UFA so we don't have to give up picks/prospects as the guy is starting to get old. If only stamkos was an UFA instead of RFA at the end of this season lol... "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foursideking Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 @yguy: I think I can answer the islanders problem. Back in 2007, the islanders were right in the middle of a rebuild, and had PLENTY of cap space (around 22.5m worth of it). Their gm, rather than continuing the rebuild, got greedy, and signed players that he didn't need in a frantic hurry to make a playoff contender. The players have since done exactly what they've done over their past few seasons (namely: score few goals), and the islanders lost that rebuilding momentum. As for the toronto defense problem, aren't there gonna be a bunch of lak defensive ufa's at the end of this season? I'd love to see them pick up someone from their team, and/or colorado, seeing as the avalanche gm has clearly lost any hope of winning a cup in the next 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Wow, what a boring game. Still, at least we got the one point... And the blues traded erik Johnson :o "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faux Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 of the 6 canadian teams sens is probably my least favourite to watch. then calgary. imagine the leafs if burke let the team tank in the 08-09 season and picked up brayden schenn instead of kadri? that's his biggest mistake imo, and not the kessel trade. :: Guess the Movie Contest Champion: pfilc23 :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now