Human Progress

[Slayer_Jesse]

 

Amen! Well said bother. I'm sick of those who speak without thinking. That is why i reserve my judgment until all the facts are in, or if jagex does something really stupid. (glares at the removal of new potions from pvp)

[pulli23]

No idea where you got this from. They took out PKing, some whiney PKers quit and alot of RWTers quit (especially those that were paying for members so that they could earn and sell money faster). There was no profit from this, but it did improve gameplay. This was a daring and bold move (one money MMORPGs wouldn't dare take on, you must admit) and it has paid off. In the long term it will earn Jagex a larger player base, more members and more money. It also improved overall gameplay, so what's there to complain about?

 

Some whiny pkers quit? I wouldn't use the word whiny, most of those who quit were oldschool pkers who had enough. The rest sucked it up and tried to bear with it. And there was a profit from this, they stopped their real life credit card issues - this was the main reason they acted upon this. Yes, it paied off, for THEM. It has not improved gameplay, you are obviously too lonely to notice just how much this game has turned into a single player MMO. We barely need to interact with players for trades, and we cant give freebies to our friends. Since the change to the wild, most of the clans from the top 10 ( if not all ), quit. Clans are a huge community based part of the game, the changes to the game wiped a lot of that out.

 

Please, before you post, understand in comparison to the old days, this is a step in a negative direction. Luckily with community based sites such as Tip it, Runescape is still a game worth playing and we are strong enough to make do with such decisions, just as we have done since the evil update which was Pest Control.

 

 

The fact that I can't give away "freebies" to my friends had not changed my playstyle a bit. Sure, before the Anti-RWT update I used to give a boost or two to a couple of friends, but it never was GOAL for me, I never saw it as something that would otherwise ruin my game, and it hasn't.

 

As for the trading- A. People still trade WITHOUT using the Grand Exchange in millions, everyday.

B. Even if that wasn't true, who cares? This game still is multi-player, I still play or even race my friends, I still play multi-player mini-games and I still get asked every other minute how the hell do I make money. The Grand Exchange's only flaw (well, not only, the major one) is merchant clans who manipulate prices and scam other players. Other than that, the Grand Exchange made things way nicer, atleast to me.

Buy there are many, many people who DID like to give help in some way or another to friends.. I for one lost my complete goal in playng runescape (and since then I hardly play 2 hours a week, only to quickly check the new updates).. Before my goal was to create a mega house, and make so much money so I could give a 24-hour-during drop party myself.. (Set that goal the spring before the killing-updates happened).

 

Now I honestly don't know what to do: what "great" goal can there be? - I dislike like skilling or gaining levels, and having money isn't fun if you can't share it with anybody you want... So the only thing that keeps me going are my old friends over IRC that keep talking me back into the new updates etc..

[Zaaps1]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies guys!

 

It is true that the goals of Jagex aren't always apparent, which is no fault of Jagex's and is certainly not a fault of ours. There are cases when we need to do our best in examining their motives. However, even is Jagex doesn't openly state their reasons, it does not mean people can jump to conclusions.

[pulli23]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies guys!

 

It is true that the goals of Jagex aren't always apparent, which is no fault of Jagex's and is certainly not a fault of ours. There are cases when we need to do our best in examining their motives. However, even is Jagex doesn't openly state their reasons, it does not mean people can jump to conclusions.

Funny how you counter my argument about saying:

 

"You should draw the most negative conclusions when a company doesn't give his reasons"

with:

"You should not"

 

Great way to argument, should I say now "no"? - WHY can't we jump to conclusions? - I think by doing so, we force JAGEX (the company) to "always" (as long as possible) reveal their intentions: so they can shut up the naysayers. - Without these critics, Jagex (the company) may (and will) become lax and will slowly give less and less insight to their actions (Why should they, nobody questions it anyways if they just say "it's good")?

[Zaaps1]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies guys!

 

It is true that the goals of Jagex aren't always apparent, which is no fault of Jagex's and is certainly not a fault of ours. There are cases when we need to do our best in examining their motives. However, even is Jagex doesn't openly state their reasons, it does not mean people can jump to conclusions.

Funny how you counter my argument about saying:

 

"You should draw the most negative conclusions when a company doesn't give his reasons"

with:

"You should not"

 

Great way to argument, should I say now "no"? - WHY can't we jump to conclusions? - I think by doing so, we force JAGEX (the company) to "always" (as long as possible) reveal their intentions: so they can shut up the naysayers. - Without these critics, Jagex (the company) may (and will) become lax and will slowly give less and less insight to their actions (Why should they, nobody questions it anyways if they just say "it's good")?

 

I counter no specific argument, but the general idea brought forth over the past few posts.

 

Critics do allow revelation to Jagex's intentions, but there are always two ways to accomplish something.

 

There is a difference between drawing negative conclusions arrogantly and drawing the negative conclusions thoughtfully, even if the same conclusion is reached. It is important for people to stand up against Jagex when they make errors, which I stated. Likewise, it is important for people to stand up against Jagex when they are leaving us in the dark. But just like correcting errors, you can either do it intelligently or blindly.

 

So yes, I agree that drawing negative conclusions can force Jagex to reveal its intentions. But that drawing a negative conclusion is not synonymous with being arrogant.

[Romy]

[hide]

No idea where you got this from. They took out PKing, some whiney PKers quit and alot of RWTers quit (especially those that were paying for members so that they could earn and sell money faster). There was no profit from this, but it did improve gameplay. This was a daring and bold move (one money MMORPGs wouldn't dare take on, you must admit) and it has paid off. In the long term it will earn Jagex a larger player base, more members and more money. It also improved overall gameplay, so what's there to complain about?

 

Some whiny pkers quit? I wouldn't use the word whiny, most of those who quit were oldschool pkers who had enough. The rest sucked it up and tried to bear with it. And there was a profit from this, they stopped their real life credit card issues - this was the main reason they acted upon this. Yes, it paied off, for THEM. It has not improved gameplay, you are obviously too lonely to notice just how much this game has turned into a single player MMO. We barely need to interact with players for trades, and we cant give freebies to our friends. Since the change to the wild, most of the clans from the top 10 ( if not all ), quit. Clans are a huge community based part of the game, the changes to the game wiped a lot of that out.

 

Please, before you post, understand in comparison to the old days, this is a step in a negative direction. Luckily with community based sites such as Tip it, Runescape is still a game worth playing and we are strong enough to make do with such decisions, just as we have done since the evil update which was Pest Control.

 

 

The fact that I can't give away "freebies" to my friends had not changed my playstyle a bit. Sure, before the Anti-RWT update I used to give a boost or two to a couple of friends, but it never was GOAL for me, I never saw it as something that would otherwise ruin my game, and it hasn't.

 

As for the trading- A. People still trade WITHOUT using the Grand Exchange in millions, everyday.

B. Even if that wasn't true, who cares? This game still is multi-player, I still play or even race my friends, I still play multi-player mini-games and I still get asked every other minute how the hell do I make money. The Grand Exchange's only flaw (well, not only, the major one) is merchant clans who manipulate prices and scam other players. Other than that, the Grand Exchange made things way nicer, atleast to me.

Buy there are many, many people who DID like to give help in some way or another to friends.. I for one lost my complete goal in playng runescape (and since then I hardly play 2 hours a week, only to quickly check the new updates).. Before my goal was to create a mega house, and make so much money so I could give a 24-hour-during drop party myself.. (Set that goal the spring before the killing-updates happened).

 

Now I honestly don't know what to do: what "great" goal can there be? - I dislike like skilling or gaining levels, and having money isn't fun if you can't share it with anybody you want... So the only thing that keeps me going are my old friends over IRC that keep talking me back into the new updates etc..

[/hide]

 

What a poor, poor argument. Not only is money-making easier (if you skill for money, you can sell your product faster, and if you merchant, well the Grand Exchange is great for that), so your money-making argument falls.

 

 

As for a drop party, I couldn't see why anyone would want to do that, and a 24 hour drop party is almost impossible (you'd need tens of billions for that). And even then, if you had the money for it, the Falador Party Room will gladly help you achieve your drop party goal. The Anti-RWT update did not kill your goal, you did because you set one that's going to drive anyone who's going serious at it crazy. If you still are interested in that goal, you can go back to it.

 

 

And if it's another goal you seek which does not involve too much skilling, try monster hunting, mini-games or anything else for that matter.

[pulli23]

You clearly don't see the point in the big drop party.. But for me it was just a goal: I'm not sure why, but I really, really liked to help people (either in monetary ways or with helping them solving quests etc) in runescape. This drop party -held to my friends- would be this utlimate goal, maybe I liked this for the gratitude, maybe I liked it for the honour gained, maybe for some other reason: but who are you to say I can't like it? - The party room really removes this personal touch, and it's absolutely no substitude to any real party.. (Oh how I mis walking from square to square following the "droppers", or dropping the items you got during a clan-event to the rest of the clan every sunday.

And even the by-passers were great: they always showed appreciation, and were pleasantly surprised.. With this system you have "professional" drop party searchers: people who actually make their main profit from drop parties. - Really this -viewing it as dropper- is really wrong.

 

 

Or how I miss to give a friend who sadly lost his rune armour during a pk trip a new armour set (yes that was big money) a new set of armour so we could continue pking (and how I miss gaining it).

 

Now to my likings: well I should say "I dislike grinding" - previously I did anything for my ultimate goal: everything I did was ment so I could help others futher (as you can see my stats are just as high to finish all quests & rc 91 so I could earn money).. Now I miss this drive: there's no great goal for me anymore, personal achievements are worth nothing if you can't share them.

Also of course what I had in mind wouldn't be a simple drop party: it would be a full day of events I had in mind for my fellow clanmates (Things like hide and seek, clue-hunting, king of the hill in wilderness maze, tour de gielnor etc), all spiced up with rewards for the winner! - These user-build events were the most fun things, yet without rewards they feel like swimming on dry land.

As you can see I don't like monster hunting, skilling or such unpersonal things: I like to do things where you "get to know" the other better, the social element of mmo's I've fallen in love with.

 

 

Now as for the wilderness: I'm not sure what it is: but since a long time already I've gained less and less interest into this - easy to blame the "guaranteed drop" removal (the old wilderness loot system), but in my opinion actually godsword were the biggest blow (literary)... Hitting 40+ in my opinion isn't fun at all, it all comes too much down to luck for me..

[elucin8er]

@ romy.

 

Clearly you were/are not:

 

1. A Pker

2. A Donator to friends

3. Familiar with rubbish junk trading

4. An oldie

5. A person who doesn't rely on all of Jagex's implementations to have fun

 

Myself going through the phase from pre-RWT fix to post-RWT fix understands every negative impact this transition had. There are some good factors, both for players and for Jagex, but the negative definetly outweighs the good.

[Riemis]

Myself going through the phase from pre-RWT fix to post-RWT fix understands every negative impact this transition had. There are some good factors, both for players and for Jagex, but the negative definetly outweighs the good.

So having no game at all is better then what we have now?

[elucin8er]

Myself going through the phase from pre-RWT fix to post-RWT fix understands every negative impact this transition had. There are some good factors, both for players and for Jagex, but the negative definetly outweighs the good.

So having no game at all is better then what we have now?

 

No, where did I say that? I like Runescape a lot, I'm just not fussed with the changes.

[Zepheras]

@ romy.

 

Clearly you were/are not:

 

1. A Pker

2. A Donator to friends

3. Familiar with rubbish junk trading

4. An oldie

5. A person who doesn't rely on all of Jagex's implementations to have fun

 

Myself going through the phase from pre-RWT fix to post-RWT fix understands every negative impact this transition had. There are some good factors, both for players and for Jagex, but the negative definetly outweighs the good.

 

 

I don't see how having those 5 characteristics put you in a better position to judge updates. Myself going from pre-RWT fix to post-RWT fix feel that the Grand Exchange ended the days where I have to waste 30 minutes to an hour spamming in Varrock W2 just to sell some herbs and runes. Granted it's not perfect, but neither was the old market system. Merchants manipulate the prices as well, while certain items weren't able to circulate in the market fully because it's too difficult to sell items in small quantities.

 

When do you need to junk trade? If you're merchanting. I don't participate in that.

 

The last one is ironic. It seems that you're the one who doesn't rely on all of Jagex's implementation to have fun, instead going sour over how they removed PK (the new system gives better drop, actually) and free trade, remove PK and free trade, remove PK and free trade, remove PK and free trade, then conclude that Jagex is a money grubber.

[elucin8er]

When do you need to junk trade?

 

Many items in the GE aren't at the correct prices. The ge lacks the ability to update prices if they aren't sold within the GE. Partyhats are worth far more than they are offered in the ge, and if you ever want one, you will be required to pay a lot more and accept junk. Same goes if you try to sell these items, you need to obtain junk to get the full value out of the item. If this isn't a broken system, I don't know what is.

 

I don't see how having those 5 characteristics put you in a better position to judge updates.

 

Well that's a bit silly isn't it. These characteristics are where the game was affected mostly. I.E. Pking, TRADE TRADE TRADE, multi-player aspect, familiarity with the full ramifications the change had. If you weren't aware, inflation is a huge problem, with the current state of pking to blame.

 

the new system gives better drop, actually

 

 

Not all players are in it for the drops :P

 

It seems that you're the one who doesn't rely on all of Jagex's implementation to have fun

 

Correct, I don't. For most of the time in Runescape, you played for the community, and made the fun yourself within Jagex's lean boundaries. Restrictions are slowly making us play and act directly within Jagex's control, although I believe this grasp won't ever be held completly. Some examples are,

 

1. Designated trade location ( used to be determined by players and held mostly in falador )

2. Confined drop party location ( used to be free of restrictions and held wherever the player decided.

 

I understand both implementations are for anti-RWT, and I accept them. However these are examples of not relying entirely on Jagex, and I hope we won't ever have to as I said before, they do not know as much about the gameplay as the players.

[Zepheras]

When do you need to junk trade?

Many items in the GE aren't at the correct prices. The ge lacks the ability to update prices if they aren't sold within the GE. Partyhats are worth far more than they are offered in the ge, and if you ever want one, you will be required to pay a lot more and accept junk. Same goes if you try to sell these items, you need to obtain junk to get the full value out of the item. If this isn't a broken system, I don't know what is.

 

When you say 'many', you're actually talking about rares, and a few items that are in the midst of being massively merchanted or dumped. That accounts for less than 1% of all the items being traded in the GE everyday. Perhaps you place importance on these few highly priced items, but I'm looking at the efficiency of the GE as a whole in getting me most of the commodities I need or to sell my unwanted items regardless of quantity.

 

When you talk about the flaw of GE to update prices fast enough, that isn't just a flaw in GE, but players and the items themselves. By normal supply and demand standard, I don't think any items can rise by 100-200% overnight, except game updates that will clearly increase the demand of a training commodity (High level prayer, for example). However when it comes to rares and merchanted items, players either want to sell for SO MUCH higher, or dump at SO MUCH lower, such that either extremities doesn't fit into the price range on GE. Artificial supply and demand by hoarding and dumping, will always be an issue. However, GE prevents massive jumps in pricing to a certain extent, and players bypass it using junk trade.

 

 

I don't see how having those 5 characteristics put you in a better position to judge updates.

Well that's a bit silly isn't it. These characteristics are where the game was affected mostly. I.E. Pking, TRADE TRADE TRADE, multi-player aspect, familiarity with the full ramifications the change had. If you weren't aware, inflation is a huge problem, with the current state of pking to blame.

 

I don't need to be a PKer to be aware of the impact that PKing in its current state has. In fact, some PKers don't know how the drop system has affected the economy. I won't talk about whether the new PVP system is better or worse than the old wilderness system though, since it's not relevant to the topics of this thread.

 

It seems that you're the one who doesn't rely on all of Jagex's implementation to have fun

Correct, I don't. For most of the time in Runescape, you played for the community, and made the fun yourself within Jagex's lean boundaries.

 

Then this makes the point of the thread relevant isn't it? Majority of the players do not make use of all of Jagex's implementations to have fun, and as such your opinion of whether one update was good or bad is biased. I see the implementation of GE, removal of extreme potions from PVP, and the changes to 76k as good updates. You may disagree. But at the end of the day Jagex implements updates based on a variety of factors, for which you should try to understand before judging if it's a good or bad update based on your own preference.

 

Restrictions are slowly making us play and act directly within Jagex's control, although I believe this grasp won't ever be held completly. Some examples are,

 

1. Designated trade location ( used to be determined by players and held mostly in falador )

2. Confined drop party location ( used to be free of restrictions and held wherever the player decided.

 

I understand both implementations are for anti-RWT, and I accept them. However these are examples of not relying entirely on Jagex, and I hope we won't ever have to as I said before, they do not know as much about the gameplay as the players.

 

1. I don't see how designating a trade location is a 'restriction'. I do see wasting time spamming in Falador as a 'restriction' to my gameplay hours, though.

 

2. Unfortunate, it is.

[elucin8er]

But at the end of the day Jagex implements updates based on a variety of factors, for which you should try to understand before judging if it's a good or bad update based on your own preference.

 

This is a good point to add after reading all of our combined text. I think this point alone > my arguement.

 

Thanks for the convo, especially Ravien. I think it's time I dealt with the implementations.

[Romy]

You clearly don't see the point in the big drop party.. But for me it was just a goal: I'm not sure why, but I really, really liked to help people (either in monetary ways or with helping them solving quests etc) in runescape. This drop party -held to my friends- would be this utlimate goal, maybe I liked this for the gratitude, maybe I liked it for the honour gained, maybe for some other reason: but who are you to say I can't like it? - The party room really removes this personal touch, and it's absolutely no substitude to any real party.. (Oh how I mis walking from square to square following the "droppers", or dropping the items you got during a clan-event to the rest of the clan every sunday.

And even the by-passers were great: they always showed appreciation, and were pleasantly surprised.. With this system you have "professional" drop party searchers: people who actually make their main profit from drop parties. - Really this -viewing it as dropper- is really wrong.

 

 

Or how I miss to give a friend who sadly lost his rune armour during a pk trip a new armour set (yes that was big money) a new set of armour so we could continue pking (and how I miss gaining it).

 

Now to my likings: well I should say "I dislike grinding" - previously I did anything for my ultimate goal: everything I did was ment so I could help others futher (as you can see my stats are just as high to finish all quests & rc 91 so I could earn money).. Now I miss this drive: there's no great goal for me anymore, personal achievements are worth nothing if you can't share them.

Also of course what I had in mind wouldn't be a simple drop party: it would be a full day of events I had in mind for my fellow clanmates (Things like hide and seek, clue-hunting, king of the hill in wilderness maze, tour de gielnor etc), all spiced up with rewards for the winner! - These user-build events were the most fun things, yet without rewards they feel like swimming on dry land.

As you can see I don't like monster hunting, skilling or such unpersonal things: I like to do things where you "get to know" the other better, the social element of mmo's I've fallen in love with.

 

 

Now as for the wilderness: I'm not sure what it is: but since a long time already I've gained less and less interest into this - easy to blame the "guaranteed drop" removal (the old wilderness loot system), but in my opinion actually godsword were the biggest blow (literary)... Hitting 40+ in my opinion isn't fun at all, it all comes too much down to luck for me..

 

I never told you what to like and what not to, I simply was surprised that someone's goal is a gigantic drop party. As for the "rewards" for participating in your 24 hour event, money and items are not the only option. Tip.It, for example, has a great tradition of offering "Slavery" of players in return for points earned through participating and winning their events. Basicly, contests and such reward the winner with points which he/she can later use to get a slave- that's a great reward, greater than items IMO.

 

For me it just seems as if you try to make every update look bad in a way. As you probably already know, nothing is perfect, every single action/decision/product has it's good and bad sides. Sure, Godswords brought in high hits, but I can assure you (even though personaly I don't like them) that MOST did and do enjoy these swords. You can't both have PKing and not have RWT, you can't both have Jagex support and update their game and not have updates which you may find unfitting. I'm yet to have seen anything that Jagex added/removed from the game that would stop your said goal, it just takes some creativity (for example, "Slavery").

 

 

@ romy.

 

Clearly you were/are not:

 

1. A Pker

2. A Donator to friends

3. Familiar with rubbish junk trading

4. An oldie

5. A person who doesn't rely on all of Jagex's implementations to have fun

 

Myself going through the phase from pre-RWT fix to post-RWT fix understands every negative impact this transition had. There are some good factors, both for players and for Jagex, but the negative definetly outweighs the good.

 

1. Sure am not.

2. At the moment I'm more of a "lender" as 10K every 15 minutes (am F2P on my current main account), but I used to spend quite a bit on friends before trading limits. The limits did NOT affect my playstyle too bad considering the reason.

3. Actualy, I am. No mean to brag, but I probably know a thing or two about it more than you.

4. I officialy started playing regulerlay in 2004, but my very first account was created on 2001.

5. All of them? Ofcourse not. I highly doubt you do either.

 

 

The negative definetly does not outweigh the good. I do not miss bots one bit, and would give up much more than gift-giving, PKing, dueling, trade limits and drop parties if I had to. (Not that any of us did, the lending system isn't a bad replacement for gift-giving, Bounty Hunter and PvP worlds may not be the "oldschool PKing" everyone misses, but it isn't a bad replacement either IMO, dueling is still out there even though it's not the same as back then, and drop parties still exist in Falador).

[zotto]

I don't really care if Jagex is making wrong decisions. The only thing that matters is whether I enjoy playing runescape and are willing to fork over 5 every month to enjoy the experience.

 

And I do.

 

And this is the bottom line. Whether I enjoy the game or not. And whether you do or not.

[pulli23]

That's the bare bottom indeed: it's like saying " I don't care what happens to the world around me, as long as I'm living good".

 

I DO care: I invest time into runescape so that in the future I can have more fun, yet if this future is dull, and unclear you won't see me playing this game in any form like I did previously..

 

 

 

And I find it pretty ignorant to keep saying: "without the updates there wouldn't be a runescape anymore": Give me some black-on-white argumentation: Would the credit card companies really put an end to the jagex companie? - Does jagex depend so much on these credit cards, how much of their userbase -apart from the bots- would they lose if credit card wasn't a payment option anymore (shouldn't then be something done about this, so that they depend less on profit hungry other organizations? - actually runescape is the ONLY company where credit cards were allowed, and with online banking growing more and more iDeal etc should replace this).. - And was this the best update they could in the time period given?

 

Never ever have I seen any of these questions answered with some prove. - While it's indeed not compulsory to give this kind of information (it might help other gaming companies) I will keep questioning all updates, and I will keep saying: "there ought to be something better". - Prove me there isn't

 

 

Ow and on the topic of "what you do in runescape": You clearly never "made your own game": the fun thing were creating your own minigames, and the CREATING of those, organizing it THAT made the fun for me, the actual playing isn't half as fun as organizing an event! (Which is true in real life as well as in gaming life). Now we're limited to things jagex has organized, effectively reducing the unique factor runescape had.

Sure I will keep on playing runescape: it's not a bad game (actually I still like it). However if I were a new player and I had to choose a game, I doubt I would start playing runescape: what makes runescape best? It's becoming more and more like "1 of the many". - And this will be the biggest loss to runescape: few new players will arive.. - I think you can see this already in runescape, I hardly ever see somebody these days with sub-50 stats, and as an effect the raw material price will rise!

[zotto]

Runescape isn't the world. It is a game.

[Zaaps1]

But Runescape exists in the world and is played by real world people, therefore a person's morals and personality carry over.

[Tact]

Zaaps, I admire that you took the effort to post a really detailed intro thread and also continue to follow up, but reasoning with the greater RS community seems like a lost cause to me. (Lol @ the forum troll rank in your sig though :D )

 

For me, calling Jagex names like "evil", "stupid", and "out of touch" is absolutely ridiculous. As far as I know, the people who work there are not dictators of some third world country, have the mental capacity to design a game that thousands of people pay to play on a daily basis, and has managed to keep them coming back for years on end.

 

This debate really boils down to personal preferences. While I may value minigames and certain skills, another player may prefer that Jagex add in more high level content or reform Pking. It's simply not possible to please everyone, nor is it feasible for Jagex to devote their attention onto several issues at the same time. I like that they are not rushing out big pieces of content every week now, but instead releasing chunks of material that seek to revitalize areas which have been overlooked.

 

Jagex has made some positive moves in recent months to reach out more to the community. They've finally acknowledged the importance of fansites, have made regular updates to the development diaries, and started involving the players in official events such as the machinima contest. Yet the smart people at Jagex has realized that you can't keep the entire community happy at once, so they've simply stopped trying.

 

What I dislike seeing is yet another thread ranting about the new [cabbage] update and how it just ruined said ranter's entire playing experience as if Jagex owes them something. Jagex doesn't owe you squat. As a comparison, let me ask you: Have you thought about where RS will be in the next 2 years? In the next 5? Or even 10 years into the future? You can bet that Jagex has done such long term growth planning, and while the specific situation is always in flux, at least they have a clear goal of where they want RS to head in the future, whereas the vast majority of players may think only up to the next month or two, and then only in terms of themselves.

 

Face it. Unless you have a more complete picture of what actually goes into the decision making process at Jagex and know what they know, you have no right to constantly complain and criticize everything they do.

[Zaaps1]

I mostly agree Granzi.

 

Although I would not say that the RS community is "beyond salvation", to paraphrase. There is probably some glimmer of hope, or at least enough that I don't have to deal with them. There is probably a way to "fix" the community (or a majority), although it would be too radical to go through with. So perhaps it isn't practical, but it's still possible. And even if a handful change, that's progress for me.

[nerdboyxxx]

I still do not think the RWT updates were necessary. WoW has the largest RWT epidemic of any MMORPG, but they still survive. Why could Jagex not examine what WoW does and emulate that, instead of radically altering the game to the point where it isolated huge portions of the player base, and as a whole, made the game much worse. The GE and all its problems (merchants, etc) are a result of the anti-RWT updates. The PvP worlds, artifacts, and their effects on the economy are a result of the anti-RWT updates. The decline of the Clan World (go look at Runescape Community-- three top 10 clans have closed in the past two months. The clan world is at the weakest point it has ever been) and the general decline of PKing can be attributed to Jagex's anti-RWT updates. Then there is the prices of resources, which are at an all-time high (the combination of no bots to boost supply and the overall inflation brought by the PvP artifacts). I don't buy that crap about credit card fraud being a threat that would cause Jagex to close RS. As I said, WoW is a bot-fest yet Blizzard somehow manages to keep WoW up and running despite it.

 

Lol, they prefer money over game quality. Blizzard are a gaming company, Jagex isn't. They made one decent game, blizzard made most of the best games out today ( Starcraft, Warcraft, WoW, Diablo - AMAZING games ). Jagex aren't sure what they're doing most of the time, this is why we have the current rs mess.

 

Not WoW again...

 

My opinion is, that they're a business, not humanitarian. They can't answer all your questions either :P

[blakdragon39]

No idea where you got this from. They took out PKing, some whiney PKers quit and alot of RWTers quit (especially those that were paying for members so that they could earn and sell money faster). There was no profit from this, but it did improve gameplay. This was a daring and bold move (one money MMORPGs wouldn't dare take on, you must admit) and it has paid off. In the long term it will earn Jagex a larger player base, more members and more money. It also improved overall gameplay, so what's there to complain about?

 

Some whiny pkers quit? I wouldn't use the word whiny, most of those who quit were oldschool pkers who had enough. The rest sucked it up and tried to bear with it. And there was a profit from this, they stopped their real life credit card issues - this was the main reason they acted upon this. Yes, it paied off, for THEM. It has not improved gameplay, you are obviously too lonely to notice just how much this game has turned into a single player MMO. We barely need to interact with players for trades, and we cant give freebies to our friends. Since the change to the wild, most of the clans from the top 10 ( if not all ), quit. Clans are a huge community based part of the game, the changes to the game wiped a lot of that out.

 

Please, before you post, understand in comparison to the old days, this is a step in a negative direction. Luckily with community based sites such as Tip it, Runescape is still a game worth playing and we are strong enough to make do with such decisions, just as we have done since the evil update which was Pest Control.

 

Well, I really don't have time to read the entire thread, but I do have an opinion I would like to voice. I happen to remember, very well, the times of RWT. Autoers EVERYWHERE. Raw materials were worth garbage. The game was being ruined for EVERYONE that enjoyed the skilling part of the game. People like me, who have no interest in PvP, and PREFER to play mostly alone. What Jagex did with the grand exchange and destroying RWT was an absolute godsend for people like me.

 

The part I bolded, where it says they did not improve gameplay; many people were VERY unhappy with the fact that they could no longer have any fun skilling. They had to compete with hundreds of autoers for things that were becoming more and more useless. Now, seeing as I haven't read the whole thread, I don't know how relevant this still is. But I really wanted to say what I had to say. :P

[Kimberly]

I won't spend a lot of time going over what many have already said before me. I agree with a great deal of what you're saying. How Jagex, a multimillion dollar/euro company does not simply do things on a whim. How players misinterpret the underlying causes as 'evil' or 'bad' when really it's to help ensure the life and growth of the game in the long term. We are short-term creatures, especially the members of this generation, unaccustomed to looking that the 'big picture.'

 

I will say, zaaps, that you are a paragraph-o-phile. XD

[Zaaps1]

Yes I seem to have a tenancy to click [enter] too many times. :D