Human Progress

[Zaaps1]

In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

 

This is taught to nearly every elementary school child in the United States. I myself remember learning it back in first or second grade (to be fair, it might've been the hats we made that I remember more than Columbus, lol). They then proceed to learn about Exploration, Columbus' ships, the Native Americans, and their relations with Columbus, which are generally shown in a positive light. However, the same children often do not get taught the complete truth until high school or college. Indeed some don't learn the complete story at all.

 

The full story is, in fact, that Columbus committed nothing less than genocide (although small when compared to Spain's later explorers) to the Natives. Although there was trade, there was also murder and robbery. This is a known fact.

 

This is a known fact hidden from children. This is a known fact many adults do not know.

 

What is known is that Columbus discovered the New World and that he paved the way for future explorers. The conclusion is then reached that Columbus may be considered a benevolent father of the United States and other American Nations.

 

Of course, the fact that Columbus butchered and robbed many Native Americans is often ignored in favor of the idea that Columbus is who we owe the Americas to.

 

The question then arises, who people who are aware of the fact: "Were his actions necessary?"

 

Most radical revolutions undergo a variety of stages, although they are all basically the same in composition. They all must be built-up. They all climb to a climatic, radical stage. They all eventually "eat themselves up" and reside to a more moderate stage, often compromising the original values of the revolution.

 

Usually, it is during this moderate stage where the real lasting, historical impacts take place. It is where the lasting change is created.

 

However, could the moderate, productive, stage arise without going through the bloodthirsty radical stage?

 

"Where those radical actions necessary?"

 

Ancient Athens is often remembered for being the first Democratic government in the Western World. Athenians did build a democratic government, this is true. This government did influence and shape many future democracies and republics, this is true.

 

However, what many people do not know is that the fate of the Athenian City-state and its democratic government in fact rested on two factors: slaves and silver. In fact, many historians believe Athens survived not because it has a fair and effective government, but by being lucky in its geography.

 

This is also true. Athens' position near ideal silver mines and its use of slavery gave it the labor and money it NEEDED to break away from the Monarchies and Oligarchies that surrounded it. Slavery is, of course, a moral sin. Slaves, while given some legal protections, were not given many rights at all.

 

But this slavery was necessary to sustain the famed Athenian form of government, which was a major foundation to many modern governments and may in fact have shaped the entire modern world to some extent.

 

What am I saying with all of this? Clearly, you can see that bad things can be the ultimate roots for good things. In other words, oftentimes evil is necessary for human progress.

 

"Evil is necessary for human progress"? What can that mean? Simple, that the foundations for the advancement of the human race are built on immoral institutions or actions. Then "evil" plagues caused human progress to occur, and in fact the same human progress could not have existed without the evil it built upon.

 

But this isn't a damn history class Zaaps, you say. How does this relate to Runescape?

 

Simple as well. Jagex oftentimes make bad decisions, or so it seems at first. But in reality, these decisions cover a lot of ground and ultimately do more harm than good. These decisions aren't necessarily "evil", but they are unpopular and may be devastating to some players.

 

Yet such decisions are often foundations for a greater good.

 

Case example: the RWT updates. True, they hurt every player to some extent. True, they dealt a major blow to Jagex's reputation and payroll. But they did solve the problem didn't it? Jagex did eliminate almost all RWT'ers, and almost all macros and gold-farmers as well, right?

 

Then this unpopular decision was necessary for progress. Such progress could not have come about any other way.

 

Jagex is often heavily criticized for its updates. In fact, players rant and flame nearly every update (although with varying degrees, to be fair). However, most of these players miss the real purpose of the updates and simply see what's on the surface.

 

No update is ever as simple as "Oh, we've decided to add a new quest!". No, Jagex could not have gotten so far following that agenda. There is an underlying goal to every single update. This goal is what shapes the update, and it is this goal that causes unsatisfactory opinions from many players, when in fact they more often then not help them.

 

To take a more recent example, how many of you have seen a complaint to some degree about the Herblore update with the new potions? Many of them simply consisted of "oh this is too strong" or "this is too hard to get" or "make them tradeable!"

 

Was the goal of the update to make combat stronger? Was the goal to give combatants new toys to play with? Or was the idea to make Herblore worth training again, and not a novelty skill?

 

When you understand that the idea of the update was to make Herblore more usable, it becomes obvious that Jagex has fit the bill perfectly. Too strong? Who cares, it's a motive! Too hard to get? That's the idea! Tradeable? Would defeat the purpose of training Herblore!

 

Once the full picture is understood, and the ultimate benefits are acknowledge, it is easy to justify the "evils" Jagex has committed.

 

It is aggravating to see players rant and flame about updates and actions they do not even fully understand. How can anyone possibly be taken seriously if they think so shallowly? How can you make a good point if you do not know what's deeper? What can you possibly have to say that is of any value to anyone if you cannot understand the rationale behind Jagex's actions?

 

You cannot.

 

I've heard too many times that "Jagex doesn't care about its players" or "Jagex doesn't listen". How can you be so shallow in thinking? You need to understand the motive and goals of Jagex. Maybe then you will understand WHY they APPEAR to be ignoring many player's suggestions. Do you know BETTER than Jagex? Maybe after you go and understand how Runescript works and understand every command in Javascript and understand exactly how every single piece of Jagex operates and works, then you can go up to Jagex and say: "You had better to this and stop ignoring us".

 

If Jagex is not taking the bait of your suggestion, obviously there is something unfeasible about it or it is a fault of your own for not explaining it well. Perhaps by not adding you suggestion, they are actually doing us all a big favor?

 

I've also heard too many times that Jagex doesn't care about X group of players because they removed Y feature from the game. Well, does Jagex spin a wheel and randomly decide which features to remove? Do you know all of Jagex's goals and agendas? Do you understand exactly why they make every decision?

 

Then how can you possibly say so?

 

Hear, I do not mean to say that you should NEVER question Jagex. Jagex is not a deity. Jagex is in fact a symbol used to described humans. Humans make mistakes. Jagex therefore makes mistakes. Of course when they make a legitimate error in an update, rants and such as justified.

 

What is NOT justified are uninformed, unthoughtful and irrational diatribes of how Jagex has once again "ruined" their game.

 

How should we debate or discuss Jagex's updates? The only thing, other than minor mistakes Jagex could have missed by human error, are the BASIS for their goals.

 

It is important to remember that, however emotionally upset we get, that Jagex's apparent evils are actually part of a plan that ultimately leads to your own benefit. There is nothing worse than ranting when unaware of the true intentions of an action.

 

Again, I am not saying that Jagex is always right. I am also not saying to never question Jagex. What I AM saying is to be more thoughtful when replying to an update. Jagex may very well have made a mistake, but that does not justify being arrogant. The only way to make meaningful posts is to understand Jagex and its goals. Only then is it revealed that Jagex SUPPORTS progress.

 

DISCLAIMER: I am not taking any particular sides in any of the examples I've mentioned. I was simply using them to make a statement about the current state of player behavior. Of course, not every player acts this way. Perhaps even a majority do not.

[Toad]

I know you're using the 1492 Columbus as an analogy, but in england we don't learn about that in schools.

 

Jagex just take what actions they feel justify what needs to be done, what's fair and keeps everybody happy and safe is what Jagex want to do.

 

RWT and trade caps people don't fully understand in the game, I see so many posts on RSOF "remove trade cap so players can enjoy the game" but they don't even understand why the limitations are there.

 

I honestly think Jagex have made some bold decisions over the past two years and the right ones, not just sat back and said well let it happen, it's more money, remember it wasn't all macroers that left, quite a few pkers left too.

 

Jagex are a games developer at the end of the day and not humanitarians.

[elucin8er]

I've also heard too many times that Jagex doesn't care about X group of players because they removed Y feature from the game. Well, does Jagex spin a wheel and randomly decide which features to remove? Do you know all of Jagex's goals and agendas? Do you understand exactly why they make every decision?

 

Hi Mr Jagex lover. Firstly, this quote ( particularly the bolded bit )..

 

They make MANY decisions based around money.

 

- They made the game easier to allow for more people to play, more money.

- They changed pking / trade / dueling to stop RWT to protect their money ( although this point to me has become acceptable, credit card issues were a problem )

- They made a stupid promise about an update a week as a ploy to get more users to join. Although many of the updates are quite rubbish and unneccessary. And I believe this fact counters your claim of Jagex producing every update for a reason

 

Now initially in Runescape, Paul would log on and talk to users about the updates or give some insight into whats to come. This was good as most of the players got a say, and it seemed Jagex were all about the community. After they established a solid foundation, they really did work on ways to get more and more players to play, and in some instances this resulted in poooooooor updates.

 

Some of this money should go into the customer support sytem, but I assure you it doesn't. There are countless examples of these instances on these forums, and you hear many stories about automated responses. They KEY arguement for Jagex lovers against this case is, they simply do not have the time to deal with so many queries. This is rubbish, they simply haven't put the money into this system. If you played any other MMO you'd know the customer support system absolutly slaughteres Jagex's, I know from experience WoW gets back to you within 3 hours with a REAL person, and even in peak times ( a glitch in the server, w/e ) they get back to you one way or another, or scedule another time to discuss it.

 

Jagex made a quality game, however the way they work isn't always justified as you claim. It is influenced by money, and it's quite clear most of the developers, DO NOT play the game.

[Hawks]

This has nothing to do with the rest of it, just the Columbus bit. He did not discover the 'new world', and was not even the first European to set foot on the continent. That honor goes to Lief Eriksson/Erikson/Ericsson/Erickson, who was a Viking and landed in what is now Newfoundland some 200 years prior to Columbus.

 

Which is the main reason I don't like Columbus. Doesn't matter if he killed a bunch of Native Americans (well it does, but you get my point).

[Zaaps1]

I stress again that any examples I've used are just that, examples. I know that the details of some of them are debateable, but none of them change the fact that they are just there to illustrate a general concept.

 

 

Hi Mr Jagex lover. Firstly, this quote ( particularly the bolded bit )..

 

They make MANY decisions based around money.

 

...

 

Jagex made a quality game, however the way they work isn't always justified as you claim. It is influenced by money, and it's quite clear most of the developers, DO NOT play the game.

 

Indeed, Jagex isn't always perfect. However, that was not the point. The idea was not that Jagex understands more than any of us and that Jagex always does best for us.

 

The point was that too many players think too shallowly before forming their opinions.

 

Jagex is greedy, and being greedy is part of human nature. However, it is important to differentiate between when Jagex is being greedy, when Jagex is being helpful and when Jagex is being irrational.

 

 

This has nothing to do with the rest of it, just the Columbus bit. He did not discover the 'new world', and was not even the first European to set foot on the continent. That honor goes to Lief Eriksson/Erikson/Ericsson/Erickson, who was a Viking and landed in what is now Newfoundland some 200 years prior to Columbus.

 

Which is the main reason I don't like Columbus. Doesn't matter if he killed a bunch of Native Americans (well it does, but you get my point).

 

Which is true, but I don't know enough about Eriksson's interactions. On the Columbus example, I am playing off popular belief. It is true that Eriksson was the first European to reach the "New World", but most people do not consider him of major importance. In fact, I don't believe that Eriksson did very much, or else the Americas would've been colonized long before they were. It's a technicality more than anything.

[Riemis]

I've also heard too many times that Jagex doesn't care about X group of players because they removed Y feature from the game. Well, does Jagex spin a wheel and randomly decide which features to remove? Do you know all of Jagex's goals and agendas? Do you understand exactly why they make every decision?

 

Hi Mr Jagex lover. Firstly, this quote ( particularly the bolded bit )..

 

They make MANY decisions based around money.

 

- They made the game easier to allow for more people to play, more money. How is making a game easier attracting more people?

- They changed pking / trade / dueling to stop RWT to protect their money ( although this point to me has become acceptable, credit card issues were a problem )

- They made a stupid promise about an update a week as a ploy to get more users to join. Although many of the updates are quite rubbish and unneccessary. And I believe this fact counters your claim of Jagex producing every update for a reason Rubbish updates? If they release easier ways to train a skill it is called rubbish, if they release harder ways to train a skill it is called rubbish because no-one will use it. Quests are called rubbish because people want "real" updates, but no-one over has an idea about how difficult and time consuming it is to make real updates, so a real update every week is not possible.

 

Now initially in Runescape, Paul would log on and talk to users about the updates or give some insight into whats to come. This was good as most of the players got a say, and it seemed Jagex were all about the community. After they established a solid foundation, they really did work on ways to get more and more players to play, and in some instances this resulted in poooooooor updates. Moderators still roam the forums in search of ideas and Jagex uses polls to find out what players think. And nowadays, if a Jmod gets online, he gets spammed with questions and rants, and how do you expect one person to get the opinion of an entire community INGAME?

 

Some of this money should go into the customer support sytem, but I assure you it doesn't. There are countless examples of these instances on these forums, and you hear many stories about automated responses. They KEY arguement for Jagex lovers against this case is, they simply do not have the time to deal with so many queries. This is rubbish, they simply haven't put the money into this system. If you played any other MMO you'd know the customer support system absolutly slaughteres Jagex's, I know from experience WoW gets back to you within 3 hours with a REAL person, and even in peak times ( a glitch in the server, w/e ) they get back to you one way or another, or scedule another time to discuss it. I can't comment on this, I have never been in contact with the customer support.

 

Jagex made a quality game, however the way they work isn't always justified as you claim. It is influenced by money, and it's quite clear most of the developers, DO NOT play the game. You must only be talking about the content team then, who cares if a programmer doesn't play the game if he does exactly what the content team wants? And I find it rather hard to believe that someone who gets paid to think about updates doesn't know the game.

[Troacctid]

Yeah, gotta say that I agree about not jumping to conclusions about Jagex's policies, but a lot of the time it's not a matter of guesswork because they state their intentions outright. For example, for the Bandos Throne Room nerf, they made no secret that they had intended it to be balanced as the optimal training ground for mid-level players but not high-levels.

 

...Then again, at that point in time, the advanced Gnome & Barbarian courses were still under construction.

 

In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

 

This is taught to nearly every elementary school child in the United States. I myself remember learning it back in first or second grade (to be fair, it might've been the hats we made that I remember more than Columbus, lol). They then proceed to learn about Exploration, Columbus' ships, the Native Americans, and their relations with Columbus, which are generally shown in a positive light. However, the same children often do not get taught the complete truth until high school or college. Indeed some don't learn the complete story at all.

 

The full story is, in fact, that Columbus committed nothing less than genocide (although small when compared to Spain's later explorers) to the Natives. Although there was trade, there was also murder and robbery. This is a known fact.

 

This is a known fact hidden from children. This is a known fact many adults do not know.

 

What is known is that Columbus discovered the New World and that he paved the way for future explorers. The conclusion is then reached that Columbus may be considered a benevolent father of the United States and other American Nations.

 

Of course, the fact that Columbus butchered and robbed many Native Americans is often ignored in favor of the idea that Columbus is who we owe the Americas to.

Actually, they teach it the "hidden" way in schools now, even to the little kids. At least they do in my state.

 

If Jagex is not taking the bait of your suggestion, obviously there is something unfeasible about it or it is a fault of your own for not explaining it well. Perhaps by not adding you suggestion, they are actually doing us all a big favor?

Eh, or they just haven't looked at it. Or they couldn't tell you if they're taking it even if they were because that would give away a future update--new content takes a pretty long time to develop.

 

They make MANY decisions based around money.

 

- They made the game easier to allow for more people to play, more money.

- They changed pking / trade / dueling to stop RWT to protect their money ( although this point to me has become acceptable, credit card issues were a problem )

- They made a stupid promise about an update a week as a ploy to get more users to join. Although many of the updates are quite rubbish and unneccessary. And I believe this fact counters your claim of Jagex producing every update for a reason

None of these are things Jagex does anymore...

[Zaaps1]

 

 

If Jagex is not taking the bait of your suggestion, obviously there is something unfeasible about it or it is a fault of your own for not explaining it well. Perhaps by not adding you suggestion, they are actually doing us all a big favor?

Eh, or they just haven't looked at it. Or they couldn't tell you if they're taking it even if they were because that would give away a future update--new content takes a pretty long time to develop.

 

Yes, true. But again that was an example used. All it does it illustrate the behavior of such players. Of course there are other reasons that Jagex might have, but the point is that they are overlooked and the conclusion is drawn that they are being outright ignored.

[pulli23]

 

I've also heard too many times that Jagex doesn't care about X group of players because they removed Y feature from the game. Well, does Jagex spin a wheel and randomly decide which features to remove? Do you know all of Jagex's goals and agendas? Do you understand exactly why they make every decision?

And here you hit the nail on its head: The biggest problem is that we don't know jagex' hidden agenda! - We know their ultimate goal is to make money by offering us a great spare time(and for the members between us: we appreciate &support that)

 

However For the rest the players are too often let in the dark: and this creates arguments!

Then how can you possibly say so?

You should always give your opinion too the best of your knowlenge: so if jagex doesn't tell us what they're actually planning, and why they are actually doing the update (and how they think it will turn out good) it's in our right, no our duty to be critical and find flaws. - It the job of the "changer" to explain why the change is needed, and why THAT change is best.

What is NOT justified are uninformed, unthoughtful and irrational diatribes of how Jagex has once again "ruined" their game.

See above

It is important to remember that, however emotionally upset we get, that Jagex's apparent evils are actually part of a plan that ultimately leads to your own benefit. There is nothing worse than ranting when unaware of the true intentions of an action.

Again see above: there is no worse than NOT ranting when your not been given 100% explanation about the intentions!

[Danqazmlp]

I agree, although I don't have the time right now to type out a lengthy paragraph, I will say it annoys me to no end when people jump straight to conclusions without stopping to think for 20 seconds about the bigger picture.

[SixFootOne]

It's refreshing to see a different point of view. I agree with about everything you say, although i wish jagex would give us a little more insight into why some things are done that some of the community is so against. (in jagex defense i think they did a great job at explaining what they did with the trade/pvp updates against real world trading)

I also do understand that they can't always state why they are doing something, to possibly spoil a future update, but sometimes their intentions are not so obvious.

[Dragonlordjl]

I still do not think the RWT updates were necessary. WoW has the largest RWT epidemic of any MMORPG, but they still survive. Why could Jagex not examine what WoW does and emulate that, instead of radically altering the game to the point where it isolated huge portions of the player base, and as a whole, made the game much worse. The GE and all its problems (merchants, etc) are a result of the anti-RWT updates. The PvP worlds, artifacts, and their effects on the economy are a result of the anti-RWT updates. The decline of the Clan World (go look at Runescape Community-- three top 10 clans have closed in the past two months. The clan world is at the weakest point it has ever been) and the general decline of PKing can be attributed to Jagex's anti-RWT updates. Then there is the prices of resources, which are at an all-time high (the combination of no bots to boost supply and the overall inflation brought by the PvP artifacts). I don't buy that crap about credit card fraud being a threat that would cause Jagex to close RS. As I said, WoW is a bot-fest yet Blizzard somehow manages to keep WoW up and running despite it.

[elucin8er]

I still do not think the RWT updates were necessary. WoW has the largest RWT epidemic of any MMORPG, but they still survive. Why could Jagex not examine what WoW does and emulate that, instead of radically altering the game to the point where it isolated huge portions of the player base, and as a whole, made the game much worse. The GE and all its problems (merchants, etc) are a result of the anti-RWT updates. The PvP worlds, artifacts, and their effects on the economy are a result of the anti-RWT updates. The decline of the Clan World (go look at Runescape Community-- three top 10 clans have closed in the past two months. The clan world is at the weakest point it has ever been) and the general decline of PKing can be attributed to Jagex's anti-RWT updates. Then there is the prices of resources, which are at an all-time high (the combination of no bots to boost supply and the overall inflation brought by the PvP artifacts). I don't buy that crap about credit card fraud being a threat that would cause Jagex to close RS. As I said, WoW is a bot-fest yet Blizzard somehow manages to keep WoW up and running despite it.

 

Lol, they prefer money over game quality. Blizzard are a gaming company, Jagex isn't. They made one decent game, blizzard made most of the best games out today ( Starcraft, Warcraft, WoW, Diablo - AMAZING games ). Jagex aren't sure what they're doing most of the time, this is why we have the current rs mess.

[BiJay]

I still do not think the RWT updates were necessary. WoW has the largest RWT epidemic of any MMORPG, but they still survive. Why could Jagex not examine what WoW does and emulate that, instead of radically altering the game to the point where it isolated huge portions of the player base, and as a whole, made the game much worse.

Most of the good items in WoW aren't buyable. Money isn't so important in WoW as it is in RS. And I think RuneScape was much worse before the trade update, all the botters were so annoying. Yeah, I'm a skiller and I know the anti-RWT mostly affected the pvp-community but it was just necessary. If they wouldn't have done something against RWT I think we would be in much more trouble now.

 

 

Lol, they prefer money over game quality. Blizzard are a gaming company, Jagex isn't. They made one decent game, blizzard made most of the best games out today ( Starcraft, Warcraft, WoW, Diablo - AMAZING games ). Jagex aren't sure what they're doing most of the time, this is why we have the current rs mess.

Blizzard milk their games. For WoW you've to pay for the basic game, all the addons and a monthly fee. For Starcraft 2 they will charge a full-game price for each of the 3 episodes. And they cut LAN play in Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 to get more money from people who would pirate the game. Yeah, Blizzard doesn't aim for the money only...

[Lets_3ekout]

I've also heard too many times that Jagex doesn't care about X group of players because they removed Y feature from the game. Well, does Jagex spin a wheel and randomly decide which features to remove? Do you know all of Jagex's goals and agendas? Do you understand exactly why they make every decision?

 

Hi Mr Jagex lover. Firstly, this quote ( particularly the bolded bit )..

 

They make MANY decisions based around money.

 

- They made the game easier to allow for more people to play, more money.

- They changed pking / trade / dueling to stop RWT to protect their money ( although this point to me has become acceptable, credit card issues were a problem )

- They made a stupid promise about an update a week as a ploy to get more users to join. Although many of the updates are quite rubbish and unneccessary. And I believe this fact counters your claim of Jagex producing every update for a reason

 

Now initially in Runescape, Paul would log on and talk to users about the updates or give some insight into whats to come. This was good as most of the players got a say, and it seemed Jagex were all about the community. After they established a solid foundation, they really did work on ways to get more and more players to play, and in some instances this resulted in poooooooor updates.

 

Some of this money should go into the customer support sytem, but I assure you it doesn't. There are countless examples of these instances on these forums, and you hear many stories about automated responses. They KEY arguement for Jagex lovers against this case is, they simply do not have the time to deal with so many queries. This is rubbish, they simply haven't put the money into this system. If you played any other MMO you'd know the customer support system absolutly slaughteres Jagex's, I know from experience WoW gets back to you within 3 hours with a REAL person, and even in peak times ( a glitch in the server, w/e ) they get back to you one way or another, or scedule another time to discuss it.

 

Jagex made a quality game, however the way they work isn't always justified as you claim. It is influenced by money, and it's quite clear most of the developers, DO NOT play the game.

 

Hi Jagex hater. Believe it or not, they're a company, it all comes down to money (yes, even Blizzard are all about making money, despite what they'd tell you). That said, they still improve the game as to what they believe to be best, because making the game better makes them money.

 

- They changed pking / trade / dueling to stop RWT to protect their money ( although this point to me has become acceptable, credit card issues were a problem )

No idea where you got this from. They took out PKing, some whiney PKers quit and alot of RWTers quit (especially those that were paying for members so that they could earn and sell money faster). There was no profit from this, but it did improve gameplay. This was a daring and bold move (one money MMORPGs wouldn't dare take on, you must admit) and it has paid off. In the long term it will earn Jagex a larger player base, more members and more money. It also improved overall gameplay, so what's there to complain about?

 

Darn that Jagex, they want money! :rolleyes: Unfortunately I can't go very deep into discussion here in regards to the author, since I live in Australia and American history isn't taught in schools. I've heard the name of a ship Columbia, but that was just from an American TV show (Family Guy had a reference I think, lol).

[Kwaichi]

There is always thin edge of evil you can afford for a progress, but if you corss this edge, you can ruin everything.

[elucin8er]

No idea where you got this from. They took out PKing, some whiney PKers quit and alot of RWTers quit (especially those that were paying for members so that they could earn and sell money faster). There was no profit from this, but it did improve gameplay. This was a daring and bold move (one money MMORPGs wouldn't dare take on, you must admit) and it has paid off. In the long term it will earn Jagex a larger player base, more members and more money. It also improved overall gameplay, so what's there to complain about?

 

Some whiny pkers quit? I wouldn't use the word whiny, most of those who quit were oldschool pkers who had enough. The rest sucked it up and tried to bear with it. And there was a profit from this, they stopped their real life credit card issues - this was the main reason they acted upon this. Yes, it paied off, for THEM. It has not improved gameplay, you are obviously too lonely to notice just how much this game has turned into a single player MMO. We barely need to interact with players for trades, and we cant give freebies to our friends. Since the change to the wild, most of the clans from the top 10 ( if not all ), quit. Clans are a huge community based part of the game, the changes to the game wiped a lot of that out.

 

Please, before you post, understand in comparison to the old days, this is a step in a negative direction. Luckily with community based sites such as Tip it, Runescape is still a game worth playing and we are strong enough to make do with such decisions, just as we have done since the evil update which was Pest Control.

[Omali]

Lol, they prefer money over game quality. Blizzard are a gaming company, Jagex isn't. They made one decent game, blizzard made most of the best games out today ( Starcraft, Warcraft, WoW, Diablo - AMAZING games ). Jagex aren't sure what they're doing most of the time, this is why we have the current rs mess.

 

Jagex isn't a gaming company? Then what are they, a home and garden company that sells games on the side? What a stupid, ignorant comment.

[elucin8er]

Lol, they prefer money over game quality. Blizzard are a gaming company, Jagex isn't. They made one decent game, blizzard made most of the best games out today ( Starcraft, Warcraft, WoW, Diablo - AMAZING games ). Jagex aren't sure what they're doing most of the time, this is why we have the current rs mess.

 

Jagex isn't a gaming company? Then what are they, a home and garden company that sells games on the side? What a stupid, ignorant comment.

 

Oh Omali, of all my jagex hate posts to pull me up on within this thread you pick this one :wall: Surely you know the context in which I say "Jagex isn't a gaming company." It's like saying light beer isn't a drink. Of course it is a drink, but it's not really, is it <3:

[Lets_3ekout]

Some whiny pkers quit? I wouldn't use the word whiny, most of those who quit were oldschool pkers who had enough. The rest sucked it up and tried to bear with it. And there was a profit from this, they stopped their real life credit card issues - this was the main reason they acted upon this. Yes, it paied off, for THEM. It has not improved gameplay, you are obviously too lonely to notice just how much this game has turned into a single player MMO.

Yes, I glady consider those that quit over the update whiny. If they were "oldschool" (that is to say, if you could even classify someone oldschool over a game) they wouldn't quit over something like this. Neither have I ever seen any evidence that Jagex made more profit from credit card issues, neither person can prove anything here.

If you think this game has almost become a single player MMO, perhaps YOU are too lonely. Or blind.

 

We barely need to interact with players for trades, and we cant give freebies to our friends. Since the change to the wild, most of the clans from the top 10 ( if not all ), quit. Clans are a huge community based part of the game, the changes to the game wiped a lot of that out.

You miss shouting for half an hour for every silly item you needed in fally centre world 2? I see we have strong differences in what we think makes a good game. We can still lend to our friends, and give them up to 60k/hr. It's not the same, but I rather that and not have to put up with autoers. I don't miss any faded clans and their attitudes, either. A story for another time.

 

Please, before you post, understand in comparison to the old days, this is a step in a negative direction. Luckily with community based sites such as Tip it, Runescape is still a game worth playing and we are strong enough to make do with such decisions, just as we have done since the evil update which was Pest Control.

If we were still playing the same old RS with the same old skills and same old everything, it would be a very dull place. Some may laugh at the thought, but we would have a pretty sucky game if RS2 was never released. Large (and even controversial) updates keep something happening, change gameplay and make playing the game much more interesting. I'm not fan of PC and never was (I still remember when people would instantly hate any PCer in the way we hate 76kers today), but when I think back I would have been alot more bored if the issue never came up.

[Mmangler]

The name of this post intrigued me, the dialogue about Columbus was essentially correct, the posted response about Lief Erickson was appropriate. Then I was surprised by the discussion about Jagex, I was under the impression that the majority would know that the purpose of the game is to make a profit and that the changes are an attempt to balance profitability with current and potential player interests. I believe Jagex cares but only to the extent that it effects profitability hence the desire to keep players reasonably happy. In the end though, RS is a game not life.

[Romy]

No idea where you got this from. They took out PKing, some whiney PKers quit and alot of RWTers quit (especially those that were paying for members so that they could earn and sell money faster). There was no profit from this, but it did improve gameplay. This was a daring and bold move (one money MMORPGs wouldn't dare take on, you must admit) and it has paid off. In the long term it will earn Jagex a larger player base, more members and more money. It also improved overall gameplay, so what's there to complain about?

 

Some whiny pkers quit? I wouldn't use the word whiny, most of those who quit were oldschool pkers who had enough. The rest sucked it up and tried to bear with it. And there was a profit from this, they stopped their real life credit card issues - this was the main reason they acted upon this. Yes, it paied off, for THEM. It has not improved gameplay, you are obviously too lonely to notice just how much this game has turned into a single player MMO. We barely need to interact with players for trades, and we cant give freebies to our friends. Since the change to the wild, most of the clans from the top 10 ( if not all ), quit. Clans are a huge community based part of the game, the changes to the game wiped a lot of that out.

 

Please, before you post, understand in comparison to the old days, this is a step in a negative direction. Luckily with community based sites such as Tip it, Runescape is still a game worth playing and we are strong enough to make do with such decisions, just as we have done since the evil update which was Pest Control.

 

 

The fact that I can't give away "freebies" to my friends had not changed my playstyle a bit. Sure, before the Anti-RWT update I used to give a boost or two to a couple of friends, but it never was GOAL for me, I never saw it as something that would otherwise ruin my game, and it hasn't.

 

As for the trading- A. People still trade WITHOUT using the Grand Exchange in millions, everyday.

B. Even if that wasn't true, who cares? This game still is multi-player, I still play or even race my friends, I still play multi-player mini-games and I still get asked every other minute how the hell do I make money. The Grand Exchange's only flaw (well, not only, the major one) is merchant clans who manipulate prices and scam other players. Other than that, the Grand Exchange made things way nicer, atleast to me.

[Dirkmetal]

I have never once posted this before, but you deserve it: Cool story Bro.

 

This is just another rant about people ranting, albeit more well written then most.

[Suiku]

ITT: People trying to look smart

[mega_vegeta6]

Jagex does not support progress, they make progress. Supporting means that they rely on us to progress within the boundaries they made, wich is an impossible feat without breaking the game. On the other hand, it all depends on the direction of progress.