Hegemony Argument Thread

[Nero]

With group moderation...

[Seraphi]

Either way we go, something screws up.

[Retech]

Either way we go, something screws up.

 

Few simple rules to make it...simpler:

 

No WMDs

1% GDP has random expenditure budget

10% GDP as total military cost budget (so you could only spend the 1% on GDP on military for ten years)

Blank to blank GDP per capita = This amount of increase, so you'd have developing nations growing faster than developed nations

 

That would basically fix all the problems of last time, and we'd only need a moderator for battles.

[archimage_a]

No WMDs

 

I give everyone 4 months of training. *Waits till a war starts* I convert all my trained people to soliders and invade with 90 million troops, and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

1% GDP has random expenditure budget

 

I was thinking about this earlier. I think the best idea is to start the game on an alternate Earth...Basically the year 2000, just after we have united and overthrown our martian overlords, stolen their matter replication technology and have launched a devestating 'Sub-Nuclearon' barrage at the Martian base, destroying the planet.

Shortly afterwards one state starts developing a 'Sub-Nuclearon' Warhead, and launches it at another state, and it is consumed in a firey ball of flame. With this fresh in people's minds the Human Collective Council(the HCC) invade and destroy the other state, and take the 'Sub-Nuclearon' Warhead Research for themselves. They decide that the power of the weapon is too great for one small state to control and thus decide to build a 'Sub-Nuclearon' Arsnal, which will be put into orbit and will only be activatable from 9 sites, and at least 6 sites must agree to the launch, and can only one warhead can be launched every 10 years...but the power is such that it can literally wipe a country off the map...and due to crazy technology it only effects the one country.

There is also a 'Sub-Nuclearon' cannon, which fires a beam of energy which can do alot of damage...Each site can fire the cannon once every 20 years, or cancel a firing once every 20 years. Everyone would start out controlling 1 site each.

 

Nuclear weapons are impossible due to all the radioactive isotopes, and pretty much everything heavier than silicon, being consumed by the matter replicators to build the huge invasion ships the Martians wanted. Thus each country would recieve a certain number of RU(Resource Unit)s per year, which they can spend on anything they like...The system auto-assumes that welfare and stuff is taken care of....The resource units would be determined by the size of the country, since anything can be fed into the matter converter.(The only extra thing you can do to generate RUs is feed people into the generator)

Anywho, current elements are pretty much ignored in favour of 8 'super elements':

Titanite

Oilanite

Alumite

Carbonite

Explosivite

Qubite

Fabricite

Stimunite

 

Which are basically:

Strong and Heavy

Fuel

Light but weak but sturdy

Moderate and moderate

Explody

Used for Computers

Light and weak and flexible

Like Adrenaline

 

 

There are more, but they require decoding the martian databases, which will take many years per material, and working together on a material is impossible since the code is in code, so there is no guarentee you would be working on the same material...your only clues are some general headings...

 

Thus the game is not based on realism, but on something like realism to make sure people don't do anything stupid.

 

Moderator would just check materials and research and do the battles.

 

Technology would be pretty much limited...You could build rail guns, but would have to use normal elements and even Fabricite would stop them...even the most powerful railguns...thats how different the materials are, same with guns and such.

 

 

I would say something along those lines would prevent people being stupid, like expanding into 8 different countries in 5 turns, since that much power might unite 6 people and bam, your country gets owned.

[Nero]

No WMDs

 

I give everyone 4 months of training. *Waits till a war starts* I convert all my trained people to soliders and invade with 90 million troops, and there is nothing you can do about it.

I scorch the land, retreat my troops, and then use my air force and navy to disrupt/destroy your supply lines. 85 million soldiers starve to death/are forced to throw rocks.

 

A hegemony in the Napoleonic era would be pretty fun. Dibs on Prussia!

[archimage_a]

I send my 85 million troops food from my 90 million population, then I shoot wildly into the sky which is bound to hit something, so your airforce is blown up. Then I carry on.

[The Dark Lord]

I second what Dusty has suggested. I think that it would be interesting if I played as the Lord Protector of the Commonwealth of England, but it is dangerous to do too much alternate history. It's what killed various ideas in the past.

 

Unless of course we put minimal alternative history and just designate a person to decide what is and what is not idiotic.

 

Also, if we do this, it would be imperative that it is based in Europe (i.e. you can only play as a European power). We could incorporate colonies into the mix just for the sake of conflict, but only European countries can be chosen as your nation.

 

Also:

 

 

 

 

Likewise, it would need to be set up like Europa Universalis where we manage resources and stuff.

[archimage_a]

I think a break would be best.

[paul191600]

I still think we should have another heg, but in an earlier era. This prevents some of the issues caused by the future/modern hegemony, along with being a nice change for once.

[Retech]

I second what Dusty has suggested. I think that it would be interesting if I played as the Lord Protector of the Commonwealth of England, but it is dangerous to do too much alternate history. It's what killed various ideas in the past.

 

Unless of course we put minimal alternative history and just designate a person to decide what is and what is not idiotic.

 

Also, if we do this, it would be imperative that it is based in Europe (i.e. you can only play as a European power). We could incorporate colonies into the mix just for the sake of conflict, but only European countries can be chosen as your nation.

 

Also:

 

 

 

 

Likewise, it would need to be set up like Europa Universalis where we manage resources and stuff.

 

You can't come as the newly modernized Japanese samurai forces? :(

[archimage_a]

Or one in a later era, so WMDs are common place, Railguns are old hat and life goes on... Seemingly Mather is going to develop guns, rail guns, elastic bands and explosives of the most powerful kind in whatever era we choose...

 

If we must do an earlier era then I think we should develop a Divad type response to outlandish technology:

Colonel Parker unveiled the DIVAD plan to 49 industry representatives on 18 May 1977. The DIVADs requirement demanded that the entrants be based on the M48 Patton tank chassis, provided by the Army, which were held in large quantities in surplus depots. DIVAD called for the gun to acquire a target and start firing within five seconds (later extended to eight) of it becoming visible or coming into its 3,000 m range, and had to have a 50% chance of hitting a target with a 30 round burst. In addition to all-weather capability, it also needed to have optical aiming capabilities, including a FLIR and laser rangefinder

Ford's prototype vehicle started demonstrating problems almost immediately. The main concerns had to do with the tracking radar, which demonstrated considerable problems with ground clutter. In testing, it was unable to distinguish between helicopters and trees. When the guns were pointed upward to fire on high-angle targets, the barrels projected into the radar's line of sight and further confused the system. Additionally, the reaction time was far too slow; against hovering helicopters it was 10 to 11 seconds, but against high-speed targets it was from 11 to 19, far too long to take a shot.[15][3]

 

The RAM-D (reliability, availability, maintainability and durability) tests ran from November 1981 to February 1982, demonstrating a wide range of operation concerns.[13] The turret proved to have too slow a traverse to track fast moving targets, and had serious problems operating in cold weather, including numerous hydraulic leaks. The simple electronic counter-countermeasures (ECCM) suite could be defeated by only minor jamming. The used guns taken from U.S. Army stock were in twisted condition due to careless warehousing. Perhaps the most surprising problem was that the 30-year-old M48 chassis with the new 20-ton turret meant the vehicle had trouble keeping pace with the newer M1 and M2, the vehicles it was meant to protect.

 

In February 1982 the prototype was demonstrated for a group of US and British officers at Fort Bliss, along with members of Congress and other VIPs. When the computer was activated, it immediately started aiming the guns at the review stands, causing several minor injuries as members of the group jumped for cover. Technicians worked on the problem, and the system was restarted. This time it started shooting towards the target, but fired into the ground 300 m in front of the tank. In spite of several attempts to get it working properly, the vehicle never successfully engaged the sample targets. A Ford manager claimed that the problems were due to the vehicle being washed for the demonstration and fouling the electronics.[15] In a report on the test, Easterbrook jokingly wondered if it ever rained in central Europe.[12]

 

As early production examples started rolling off the production line, the problems proved to be just as serious. One of the early models is reported to have locked onto a latrine fan, mistaking its return for a moving target of low-priority. Reporting on the incident in another article on the vehicle's woes, Easterbrook reported that "During a test one DIVAD locked on to a latrine fan. Michael Duffy, a reporter for the industry publication Defense Week, who broke this aspect of the story, received a conference call in which Ford officials asked him to describe the target as a 'building fan' or 'exhaust fan' instead."[16]

 

So the 'High Tech' weapons fail in serious respects because they are far too far in advance of the period, even with 5 years of research and such...

How can this relate to Guns and Grenades?

Well Grenades might not explode, they might explode to early, they might explode but only serve to destroy the grenade...

Guns might not fire, might create a massive smoke cloud when firing, might melt the barrel after one or two firings...

The list of potential problems is endless, but if people are going to complain every time their technology fails.

 

Also if someone spends 40 years developing some high tech weapon, say a hand held grenade, then, after it is first used, everyone else can start developing, taking only 5 years...The latter grenades will be weaker, but only slightly. Thus developing vastly superior weapons is in no one's interest...unless you plan to fight a war against everyone and win it in less than 5 years...obviously.

Thus the 'best' way to research, is to improve old weapons and research new tactics and such.

 

If we were doing it in the future then it would be good to define seperate races with seperate advantages.

[The_Mather1]

Hey, those rubber bands were solely Retech's fault, I only researched something capable of flinging objects.

And explosives haven't even come further than that I know that by mixing a whole heap of stuff, some parts of it makes it spontaniously combust when ignited.

 

Also the gun is one meter wide (apparently), has three bullets, it's inacurate and uses magic to work.

 

And railguns are not my thing, too much friction, coilguns are much better.

[archimage_a]

In any case...You have a penchant for the modern technology, which would screw up a past era hegemony unless the rules are designed to make new technology less desirable.

[The_Mather1]

Thing is that the hegemony was created so that we could lead our countries into the future, not keep them stuck in the past. Anyways a technology has never been impossible, it's foundamental principles were just not discovered.

 

So for a past hegmony you must alter the ingame physics, giving yourself full control of what different discoveries uncover, making modern technology impossible. This is what you refused to do in the previous hegemony, in the case of "proving/disproving" my theory.

[The Dark Lord]

I second what Dusty has suggested. I think that it would be interesting if I played as the Lord Protector of the Commonwealth of England, but it is dangerous to do too much alternate history. It's what killed various ideas in the past.

 

Unless of course we put minimal alternative history and just designate a person to decide what is and what is not idiotic.

 

Also, if we do this, it would be imperative that it is based in Europe (i.e. you can only play as a European power). We could incorporate colonies into the mix just for the sake of conflict, but only European countries can be chosen as your nation.

 

Also:

 

 

 

 

Likewise, it would need to be set up like Europa Universalis where we manage resources and stuff.

 

You can't come as the newly modernized Japanese samurai forces? :(

 

No, it would defeat the purpose of everything. If we all played in Europe, it would be better since it means that there are far less empty nations. We probably have enough people to play most of the European nations.

 

Ford's prototype vehicle started demonstrating problems almost immediately.

 

Ford, Our Ford. Ford bless his soul.

 

------------------

 

 

Mather, there will be no such progression if we go with an idea such as the one that Dusty and I have proposed. There will be no technological advances apart from the technology that the game period has. Time will also not really be a factor. It may be set around 1700 or so, but the time doesn't really progress. The only thing that really matters is strategy. We're also trying to find a game engine to play this on... something like Europa Universalis (except we can customize the names of our nations and personalize our banners a little bit).

 

Likewise, I also have to agree with Archi. A break is needed, at least so we can work something out for the inevitable next game.

[VEGHATERMEATLOVER]

I don't really understand whats wrong with the hegemony at the moment?

I understand that the futuristic techs may be ruining the game slightly with unrealism but you seemed to be going fine.

[Nero]

I don't really understand whats wrong with the hegemony at the moment?

I understand that the futuristic techs may be ruining the game slightly with unrealism but you seemed to be going fine.

It's dead because Retech decided to anthrax bomb the world, and Arch for some bizarre reason allowed it.

[BlitzKriegMod]

DELETE THIS POST

[VEGHATERMEATLOVER]

I don't really understand whats wrong with the hegemony at the moment?

I understand that the futuristic techs may be ruining the game slightly with unrealism but you seemed to be going fine.

It's dead because Retech decided to anthrax bomb the world, and Arch for some bizarre reason allowed it.

Well, to me thats ok because that is something that is possible and realistic.

 

Oh, he broke the NO WMD rule, just ignore that he did anything because that was a WMD.

[The Dark Lord]

I don't really understand whats wrong with the hegemony at the moment?

I understand that the futuristic techs may be ruining the game slightly with unrealism but you seemed to be going fine.

It's dead because Retech decided to anthrax bomb the world, and Arch for some bizarre reason allowed it.

Well, to me thats ok because that is something that is possible and realistic.

 

Oh, he broke the NO WMD rule, just ignore that he did anything because that was a WMD.

 

We did, but it still killed the game because it pissed people off.

[The_Mather1]

I don't really understand whats wrong with the hegemony at the moment?

I understand that the futuristic techs may be ruining the game slightly with unrealism but you seemed to be going fine.

It's dead because Retech decided to anthrax bomb the world, and Arch for some bizarre reason allowed it.

Well, to me thats ok because that is something that is possible and realistic.

 

Oh, he broke the NO WMD rule, just ignore that he did anything because that was a WMD.

 

We did, but it still killed the game because it pissed people off.

Actually Rocco and Ross were the only ones who got so pissed that they left. We only lost three countries, Turkey, Australia and Japan, I don't see why those three being gone ruinned the game.

[archimage_a]

I think the game was dying before then...

[Retech]

I think the game was dying before then...

 

Lots of people were already sorta on the edge of quitting, (not posting in days) and half of the ones that were active were in a conflict which was unsustainable, with both sides have superweapons.

[archimage_a]

Anywho

[Grim_]

And one neutral side had hypersonic aircraft (unmanned obviously).