New Jersey legalizes medical marijuana...and bans gay marriage

[Omar]

Frankly if that is what people want then that is what people want.

 

We gay people have been at the bottom of the pile for the last 600 years(before that we owned, and in Russia we owned up until 1890 something), I hardly think that we should force people accept our ideas because we believe them to be correct. If more than 50% of people have a problem with me marrying another guy then why should I be given the right, by them, to make them feel uncomfortable...

 

Sort of like saying 'Hey, what we are going to do is kill you, but we thought that was a bit tiring so you are going to dig your graves and then shoot yourselves into the grave.'

 

Its pretty much morally wrong to force someone to do something they don't want to do, simply because we think it is right for them to do it.

 

Example, the British Empire taxing African people because we decided that African people were lazy because they wouldn't do what we said....The few should never dictate their will onto the many just because the few believe it to be correct and proper.

 

You're not forcing them to do anything. They're forcing you not to do something.

[archimage_a]

Frankly if that is what people want then that is what people want.

 

We gay people have been at the bottom of the pile for the last 600 years(before that we owned, and in Russia we owned up until 1890 something), I hardly think that we should force people accept our ideas because we believe them to be correct. If more than 50% of people have a problem with me marrying another guy then why should I be given the right, by them, to make them feel uncomfortable...

I doubt there would be many civil rights around the world if that set of mind prevailed. In democracy, you have to protect oppressed groups from the tyranny of the majority, and you can't shouldn't put up civil right questions to public votes. That's why, IMO, we now have such things like Supreme Courts around the world.

In a democracy you need to ignore the majority because the majority is usually wrong... Thats not a democracy then is it? That is a farse.

A country is the sum of its parts, and enforcing a law which is not supported by more than half the people of a country is plainly wrong.

 

Its pretty much morally wrong to force someone to do something they don't want to do, simply because we think it is right for them to do it.

And that should apply to the other side of the debate. These bans stop people from doing something they want.

I agree, unfortunately that doesn't mean much because I am not on that side of the debate....Whats the saying? Don't throw rocks from inside a glass greenhouse.

 

You're not forcing them to do anything. They're forcing you not to do something.

I would be forcing them to accept something they believe to be wrong.

[Abc1230]

I'm not positive about this, but isn't marijuana less addictive than tobacco or alcohol? Wouldn't legalizing marijuana (everywhere) only help our economy? :/ I'm probably missing something stupid :P As for gay marriage, our country has been run by a bunch of conservative Christians since it was founded :/ This is the United States of America we're talking about, after all. We're not allowed to do anything that makes sense ;) Jersey is just extra [bleep]ed up because people like me live here :D (I'm pro - gay rights, by the way :/)

[Omar]

You're not forcing them to do anything. They're forcing you not to do something.

I would be forcing them to accept something they believe to be wrong.

But it shouldn't be up to them to decide what you do as long as it doesn't concern them...

[Range_This11]

An addiction sounds a lot more serious than a habit. And a heavy habit of smoking pot is still not great - smoking anything heavily isn't really great. Most people don't smoke for simple pleasure, sociality and creativity. The average teenager smokes to get [bleep]ed up and out of their head.

 

And with some of them, it's such a habit that it's still messing them up. Might as well call it an addiction. Semantics don't matter [cabbage] when kids are just skipping school to go smoke. I have a friend that's a real pothead now, and all he really does is sit around smoking. He's boring.

This is exactly why it should be legalized, regulated, and illegal to people under 18. It's easier to get weed from a friend or dealer illegally than it is to buy alcohol from a store when you're not of age. This is because the system is regulated and governed. That doesn't happen in a black market.

[Madmanpur3]

An addiction sounds a lot more serious than a habit. And a heavy habit of smoking pot is still not great - smoking anything heavily isn't really great. Most people don't smoke for simple pleasure, sociality and creativity. The average teenager smokes to get [bleep]ed up and out of their head.

 

And with some of them, it's such a habit that it's still messing them up. Might as well call it an addiction. Semantics don't matter [cabbage] when kids are just skipping school to go smoke. I have a friend that's a real pothead now, and all he really does is sit around smoking. He's boring.

This is exactly why it should be legalized, regulated, and illegal to people under 18. It's easier to get weed from a friend or dealer illegally than it is to buy alcohol from a store when you're not of age. This is because the system is regulated and governed. That doesn't happen in a black market.

Try 21, smoking pot in the teenage years isn't smart because it harms the development of the brain. Also due to the mind altering affects I'd put it alongside alcohol versus cigarettes. I also think you should have to take some sort of test to get some sort of license before you're allowed to use it. Hell, there are a lot of drugs that can be both safe and have a positive affect on your life if used appropriately/responsibly.

[RpgGamer]

What is this incoherent babbling about a government conspiracy?

 

The government marijuana probably won't be "quality" for all of those who are pro-legalization. It's going to have more effects of laziness and sedativity than creativity bursts and mind release that the junkies crave. To me that smells like a mind control conspiracy.

 

I don't get it. Really, I don't. That middle sentence makes no sense.

 

Marijuana, the kind that the black market loves is milkly addictive, and can cause rushes of euphoria, creative thinking and a state of a "freed mind". The goverment regulated marijuana is likely going to be less addictive and have stronger side effects in the regards of fatique, sedating the body and mind. That's where the conspiracy comes in. I could go on about that (starting in the late '60s in California where pot was first inrtoduced as a fad, then the goverment slipped acid into the mix and all of the hippy-protesters were to high to keep the activist period moving, preventing the goverment from being questioned). There's ALOT more to that story, but I'll let you think about it for yourself. That's not really what I'm here to argue.

 

I don't like the idea of legalized pot because yes, it'll help our economy...but i don't like the idea of pot becoming more available than it already is. Alcohol and Tobacco are very simple for anyone to get thier hands on. Marijuana already has a strong presense, and legalizing it is only going to increase that availability causing all sorts of missuse and abuse, especially by the younger generations (12 to 16 crowd). I'd rather see the poilce crack down and rid the country of all drugs, including caffiene, alcohol, and tobacco. All of em. But that's just me.

[Lenticular_J]

An addiction sounds a lot more serious than a habit. And a heavy habit of smoking pot is still not great - smoking anything heavily isn't really great. Most people don't smoke for simple pleasure, sociality and creativity. The average teenager smokes to get [bleep]ed up and out of their head.

 

And with some of them, it's such a habit that it's still messing them up. Might as well call it an addiction. Semantics don't matter [cabbage] when kids are just skipping school to go smoke. I have a friend that's a real pothead now, and all he really does is sit around smoking. He's boring.

This is exactly why it should be legalized, regulated, and illegal to people under 18. It's easier to get weed from a friend or dealer illegally than it is to buy alcohol from a store when you're not of age. This is because the system is regulated and governed. That doesn't happen in a black market.

That, is something I can agree with.

[Madmanpur3]

I don't like the idea of legalized pot because yes, it'll help our economy...but i don't like the idea of pot becoming more available than it already is. Alcohol and Tobacco are very simple for anyone to get thier hands on. Marijuana already has a strong presense, and legalizing it is only going to increase that availability causing all sorts of misuse and abuse, especially by the younger generations (12 to 16 crowd). I'd rather see the poilce crack down and rid the country of all drugs, including caffiene, alcohol, and tobacco. All of em. But that's just me.

The country will *never* be rid of all drugs, unless the government does something extremely radical and quite frankly, bad for the country. I say legalize marijuana for 21 and older and make the punishments progressively worse (for the kid and/or the parents) the more underage they are. For instance maybe give a 19 year old a fine of some sort, but a 13 year old can maybe go to juvie while the parents are nailed with a considerably larger fine than that 19 year old got. In fact I think they should implement that sort of system for alcohol as well.

[Lenin64]

We all live on a [bleep]ed up planet. Thats the only thing I could think of to say at the moment.

That planet is fine. The people are [bleep]ed.

[archimage_a]

You're not forcing them to do anything. They're forcing you not to do something.

I would be forcing them to accept something they believe to be wrong.

But it shouldn't be up to them to decide what you do as long as it doesn't concern them...

I completely agree.

But let me ask you this...If you saw a child being abused by one of its parents would you not feel concern for them?

 

Why do you feel concern? This person is none of your concern, they are the being looked after by their parent, who is, after all the proper person to be looking after them. You might not agree with them beating the child within an inch of their lives. Now imagine that you were also a parent and you were up for some 'Good parent of the Year Award' and in the final round the other person also recieved a medel/trophy/whatever. Would you not feel morally offended that something which you should feel achievement over has been given to someone who you cannot abide?

 

That is how the average straight person who is against gay marriage feels. They feel that two people are doing something morally wrong and then being given an honour for it, something which they had always considered to be good is suddenly turned into something morally abject.

What do you do? Abandon the concept of marriage? The idea which you have strived for your entire life....Or do you try to limit the damage, remind people that marriage is something which is good, not something which is evil.

 

Understand it from their point of view and then decide whether or not it is right to force them to accept it and try to relate it to something which you can't stand either and put yourself in their shoes because in the end empthay wins out, far more often than civil rights...If I can understand the plight of others then I learn not to hate them, if I am forced to like them I just resent them.

[Omar]

1) You're not going to be able to do that, see prohibition of alcohol, crackdown on drugs (someone posted a link to Grass: A history of marijuana, there's a piece of info on that in it), current prohibition on drugs... People will get them somehow.

 

2) Second, where do you draw the line? Meds are drugs too -- anything that alters normal bodily function is -- but they're also necessary

 

3) Legalization of marijuana would make dealers pretty much obsolete and as such less present, with actual stores being a more practical way of buying. This wouldn't make weed more available, at least not to younger people (12-16). It might not decrease it, but that's not the goal here, it's to allow people who should be free to smoke weed to do so.

[Range_This11]

Try 21, smoking pot in the teenage years isn't smart because it harms the development of the brain. Also due to the mind altering affects I'd put it alongside alcohol versus cigarettes. I also think you should have to take some sort of test to get some sort of license before you're allowed to use it. Hell, there are a lot of drugs that can be both safe and have a positive affect on your life if used appropriately/responsibly.

I highly doubt you are educated in cannabis if you're saying that. Cannabis does not harm the brain as you say it does. The ONLY thing that it has does is give those people with a pre-disposition to schizophrenia a slightly higher chance of actually developing it. Yes, that's right...but only if they are already PRE-DISPOSITIONED. This "mind-altering state" you say it puts you in is not bad for the brain whatsoever. It has zero negative effects. Cannabis has never killed one person in its 10,000 year history as a naturally occurring plant and it never will. So please, spare me when you try to even put it anywhere near alcohol or cigarettes. The only thing wrong with cannabis is the negative stigmas associated with it that were created by the government's illegitimate cannabis laws.

[Madmanpur3]

archimage, your examples aren't the greatest. When a father abuses his child there is harm involved, I feel compelled to step in because that child is being harmed. When a homosexual couple...exists...nobody's being harmed. Some people are offended, yes, but I get offended by a lot of things too and most are legal. Outlawing something solely because you think it's "morally wrong" is just plain absurd.

[archimage_a]

I disagree but fair enough.

Beastiality

Furies

Transexuals

BDSM

Nudists

Cyclists

Motorists

Capitalists

Communists

Slave Owners(Debatably admittedly, pain and suffering is not inherant merely common)

Child Labour

 

I am sure I can go on. But taking the top one, beastiality, why should it be illegal?

[Madmanpur3]

Try 21, smoking pot in the teenage years isn't smart because it harms the development of the brain. Also due to the mind altering affects I'd put it alongside alcohol versus cigarettes. I also think you should have to take some sort of test to get some sort of license before you're allowed to use it. Hell, there are a lot of drugs that can be both safe and have a positive affect on your life if used appropriately/responsibly.

I highly doubt you are educated in cannabis if you're saying that. Cannabis does not harm the brain as you say it does. The ONLY thing that it has does is give those people with a pre-disposition to schizophrenia a slightly higher chance of actually developing it. Yes, that's right...but only if they are already PRE-DISPOSITIONED. This "mind-altering state" you say it puts you in is not bad for the brain whatsoever. It has zero negative effects. Cannabis has never killed one person in its 10,000 year history as a naturally occurring plant and it never will. So please, spare me when you try to even put it anywhere near alcohol or cigarettes. The only thing wrong with cannabis is the negative stigmas associated with it that were created by the government's illegitimate cannabis laws.

I wasn't referring to it harming the development of the brain when I was talking about it having mind altering affects. I was comparing it to alcohol in the sense that you shouldn't be allowed to drive while high, whereas smoking cigarettes and driving is fine. What I was referring to with my first statement tho is that there have been studies done that proves THC harms the development of the brain for younger people but eventually that's no longer an issue.

[Madmanpur3]

I disagree but fair enough.

Beastiality

Furies

Transexuals

BDSM

Nudists

Cyclists

Motorists

Capitalists

Communists

Slave Owners(Debatably admittedly, pain and suffering is not inherant merely common)

Child Labour

 

I am sure I can go on. But taking the top one, beastiality, why should it be illegal?

It's illegal to be a transexual? or a cyclist? Not sure I quite understand. But um as for beastiality I really don't care if it's legal or not, but it'd be difficult to prove they're not harming the animals and until they can 100% prove that there is consent and they aren't harming them, it won't become legal.

[archimage_a]

Sorry, I thought we were talking about things we legislate against, or who we take active steps to prevent...

 

Bestiality is illegal

Furies are generally disallowed by most forums

Transexualism has been illegal for a long time and is now tightly regulated.

BDSM is considered torture

Nudists are arrested for indecent behavior

Cyclists are confined to their lanes

Motorists are confined to roads and speed limits and MOTs and Tax and Insurance

Slavery is illegal

Child Labour is illegal

Capitalists have the Sherman Anti-Trust Bill

Communists have the McCarthy Trials and Homeland Security

 

Bestiality... You want me to prove that it does not harm the animal?

Prove to me that castration and spaying is not mutilation of the animal and maybe that argument has some credibility.

Or consider that without castration or spaying or bestiality you are inflicting suffering on the animal by refusing it the ability to sexually relieve itself because you personally do not want to look after its babies.

 

So, there is a choice between:

Bestiality, the apparently immoral option

Mutilation, the truly immoral option

Torture, the do nothing option

Buying another animal to get raped by the first animal(visa versa, obviously), the natural option

Looking after a fresh litter of puppies every few years, the expensive option

 

Personally I chose not to get involved, but as you can see no choice is actually favourable.

[meol]

Honestly, you lost me there. :???: What are you trying to say again?

 

As for legalizing marihuana, I see legalization in the US as the start of a larger movement that would, hopefully, start having drugs regulated by governments and out of the hands of criminal organizations. Drug trafficking is a much worse problem than addiction or abuse, IMO.

[3hitm4g3u]

I can't wait for Marijuana to be legalized in England.

[Perakp]

I can't wait for Marijuana to be legalized in England.

Yes you can wait, you are doing so at this very moment :!:

[Zierro]

The few should never dictate their will onto the many just because the few believe it to be correct and proper.

 

Are you saying the Salem "witch huntings" were legitimate?

 

Sometimes the few have logic on their side and the majority are a bunch of idiots. I think voting is kind of a lame concept. Let's say we're voting on how to build a rocket. There are scientists who know what they're doing but there are also a bunch of country boys who have never seen computers in their life. Everybody's vote counts as one. I don't think it's far of a stretch to say that a scientist-only rocket would be much better.

 

So I guess my point here is that it's outlandish to put everyone's opinions on par with each other.

[Range_This11]

I can't wait for Marijuana to be legalized in England.

Yes you can wait, you are doing so at this very moment :!:

Hey, nice job picking apart a common figure of speech. :thumbup:

[Serpent Eye]

At this point, another state banning gay marriage doesn't really surprise me.

 

:s

[Faux]

and they have Jersey Shore... great state