Jump to content

Welcome to Rune Tips, the first ever RuneScape help site. We aim to offer skill guides, quest guides, maps, calculators, informative databases, tips, and much more to help you get the most from the Massive Online Adventure Game, RuneScape, by Jagex Ltd © 2009.

Report Ad

Welcome to Forum.Tip.It
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

So leveling Attack and Strength is a bad thing now? A warning for non-meleers


  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#1
Dirkmetal
[ Display Name History ]

Dirkmetal

    Bear Fur

  • Members
  • 454 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:The Spacetime continuum
  • Joined:13 September 2008
  • RuneScape Status:Retired
  • RSN:Prism Swords
ITT: We talk about Turmoil, it's effects on the combat triangle, and how you choose to level your stats.

Turmoil, every meleers dream prayer. But what does this prayer mean to rangers and mages? Nothing good I can tell you, but this is not about the combat triangle. This is about mages, and rangers who choose to level their melee stats.

If you're a mage or ranger who's thinking of leveling your melee, I'm going to tell you now: Don't. The higher your attack and strength are when using mage or range, when you're fighting a meleer, the more chance he has of KO'ing you. All your attack and strength do is augment his ability's, wile not providing any help to your magic or range.

So don't level melee stats, except for maybe defense is you're not a pure. It will only come back bite you.

Also, meleers now need to think about how their melee stats are now working against them if they decide that they want to use range or mage in PvP.

Happy Turmoil-ing!

#2
baalboy5
[ Display Name History ]

baalboy5

    Moss Giant Whipper

  • Members
  • 2,823 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Somewhere visible to the unseen
  • Joined:20 November 2005
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:ozma
Even though you make good points, one thing to consider is that the curse requires 95 prayer. While most pures I've seen don't have theirs past protect melee.
Its like a REALLY rare chance you'll see a pure fight where 1 has turmoil
*FYI, the req to get to the curses is 50 prayer first*

Don't you know the first rule of MMO's? Anyone higher level than you has no life, and anyone lower than you is a noob.


People in OT eat glass when they are bored.

#3
Dirkmetal
[ Display Name History ]

Dirkmetal

    Bear Fur

  • Members
  • 454 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:The Spacetime continuum
  • Joined:13 September 2008
  • RuneScape Status:Retired
  • RSN:Prism Swords
Yes, but this encompasses more then just pures on PvP worlds. This effects ranging and maging in Castle Wars, Fist of Guthix, Clan Wars and Stealing Creation.

#4
Sy_Accursed
[ Display Name History ]

Sy_Accursed

    Post Junkie

  • Members
  • 16,851 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norfolk, UK
  • Joined:22 December 2004
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Sy Accursed
It's not that big a deal unless you are a nooby mage.

Rangers will get pwned its a given, part of the combat triangle.

But any decent mage, turmoil or not, can stop the meleer even getting to them. Why do you think in combat mini-games there is always like 30+ people attempting to pile the ancient mage but like no-one reaches them cause they r frozen and it takes several minutes to manage to get them?

Plv6Dz6.jpg

Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills ::  Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA Rewards

Dragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue


#5
Romy
[ Display Name History ]

Romy

    [Witty and Meaningful rank]

  • Members
  • 3,172 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Joined:16 December 2008
  • RuneScape Status:Retired

It's not that big a deal unless you are a nooby mage.

Rangers will get pwned its a given, part of the combat triangle.

But any decent mage, turmoil or not, can stop the meleer even getting to them. Why do you think in combat mini-games there is always like 30+ people attempting to pile the ancient mage but like no-one reaches them cause they r frozen and it takes several minutes to manage to get them?


Someone here forgot the Combat Triangle is unbalanced....

#6
jonni
[ Display Name History ]

jonni

    Hobgoblin Killer

  • Members
  • 1,685 posts
  • Joined:8 April 2007
I guess you could say the combat triangle is in turmoil right now!!
dohoho

#7
Sy_Accursed
[ Display Name History ]

Sy_Accursed

    Post Junkie

  • Members
  • 16,851 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norfolk, UK
  • Joined:22 December 2004
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Sy Accursed


It's not that big a deal unless you are a nooby mage.

Rangers will get pwned its a given, part of the combat triangle.

But any decent mage, turmoil or not, can stop the meleer even getting to them. Why do you think in combat mini-games there is always like 30+ people attempting to pile the ancient mage but like no-one reaches them cause they r frozen and it takes several minutes to manage to get them?


Someone here forgot the Combat Triangle is unbalanced....


t's not perfectly balanced no, but it still roughly works.

As a ranger you can usually get a mage down if you can hit hard enough.
As a mage you can usually get a meleer down if you use ice and binds to keep them from getting you
As a meleer you can usually own a ranger with easy

Plv6Dz6.jpg

Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills ::  Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA Rewards

Dragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue


#8
Money Wasted
[ Display Name History ]

Money Wasted

    Bear Fur

  • Members
  • 284 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Joined:18 September 2007
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Money Wasted



It's not that big a deal unless you are a nooby mage.

Rangers will get pwned its a given, part of the combat triangle.

But any decent mage, turmoil or not, can stop the meleer even getting to them. Why do you think in combat mini-games there is always like 30+ people attempting to pile the ancient mage but like no-one reaches them cause they r frozen and it takes several minutes to manage to get them?


Someone here forgot the Combat Triangle is unbalanced....


t's not perfectly balanced no, but it still roughly works.

As a ranger you can usually get a mage down if you can hit hard enough.
As a mage you can usually get a meleer down if you use ice and binds to keep them from getting you
As a meleer you can usually own a ranger with easy


Except the fact that you get called a farcaster noob and you will have to tank which defeats the whole purpose of being a mage <_<

Its ok for a meleer to own a ranger
Its ok for a ranger to own a mage
But if a mage starts owning a meleer...0mfg n00b farcaster gtf0
Posted Image

#9
Sy_Accursed
[ Display Name History ]

Sy_Accursed

    Post Junkie

  • Members
  • 16,851 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norfolk, UK
  • Joined:22 December 2004
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Sy Accursed




It's not that big a deal unless you are a nooby mage.

Rangers will get pwned its a given, part of the combat triangle.

But any decent mage, turmoil or not, can stop the meleer even getting to them. Why do you think in combat mini-games there is always like 30+ people attempting to pile the ancient mage but like no-one reaches them cause they r frozen and it takes several minutes to manage to get them?


Someone here forgot the Combat Triangle is unbalanced....


t's not perfectly balanced no, but it still roughly works.

As a ranger you can usually get a mage down if you can hit hard enough.
As a mage you can usually get a meleer down if you use ice and binds to keep them from getting you
As a meleer you can usually own a ranger with easy


Except the fact that you get called a farcaster noob and you will have to tank which defeats the whole purpose of being a mage <_<

Its ok for a meleer to own a ranger
Its ok for a ranger to own a mage
But if a mage starts owning a meleer...0mfg n00b farcaster gtf0


So who cares?
That just dumb meleers who rarely know the combat triangle and assume they should own all. The whole point of mage is it is not a close up skill, you're meant to stay back out of trouble and take foes down.

Plv6Dz6.jpg

Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills ::  Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA Rewards

Dragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue


#10
LatinII
[ Display Name History ]

LatinII

    Dark Wizard Robe

  • Members
  • 828 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Joined:14 March 2009
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Atrum
Meleers don't stand a chance against a skilled mage. And mages can kill rangers too, except for the ones that know what weapons to use against a mage. Which not many are aware of.

#11
Money Wasted
[ Display Name History ]

Money Wasted

    Bear Fur

  • Members
  • 284 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Joined:18 September 2007
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Money Wasted





It's not that big a deal unless you are a nooby mage.

Rangers will get pwned its a given, part of the combat triangle.

But any decent mage, turmoil or not, can stop the meleer even getting to them. Why do you think in combat mini-games there is always like 30+ people attempting to pile the ancient mage but like no-one reaches them cause they r frozen and it takes several minutes to manage to get them?


Someone here forgot the Combat Triangle is unbalanced....


t's not perfectly balanced no, but it still roughly works.

As a ranger you can usually get a mage down if you can hit hard enough.
As a mage you can usually get a meleer down if you use ice and binds to keep them from getting you
As a meleer you can usually own a ranger with easy


Except the fact that you get called a farcaster noob and you will have to tank which defeats the whole purpose of being a mage <_<

Its ok for a meleer to own a ranger
Its ok for a ranger to own a mage
But if a mage starts owning a meleer...0mfg n00b farcaster gtf0


So who cares?
That just dumb meleers who rarely know the combat triangle and assume they should own all. The whole point of mage is it is not a close up skill, you're meant to stay back out of trouble and take foes down.


Yeah it's just really annoying when you can't mage properly without being called a farcasting noob or whatever. I guess it's the the same for everything else that gives you an advantage over your opponent these days
Posted Image

#12
Lep
[ Display Name History ]

Lep

    Moss Giant Whipper

  • Members
  • 2,761 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Joined:3 March 2005
  • RuneScape Status:Semi-Retired
  • RSN:Lep
Why doesn't anyone ever get their curses to 10% on something like npcs, before a fight? That's more powerful than Turmoil is. I mean, at least if you're gonna hardcore and FOR SURE kill someone. Like full Vesta/Firecape and vls. Then I'd bother doing that...

#13
Sy_Accursed
[ Display Name History ]

Sy_Accursed

    Post Junkie

  • Members
  • 16,851 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norfolk, UK
  • Joined:22 December 2004
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Sy Accursed

Why doesn't anyone ever get their curses to 10% on something like npcs, before a fight? That's more powerful than Turmoil is. I mean, at least if you're gonna hardcore and FOR SURE kill someone. Like full Vesta/Firecape and vls. Then I'd bother doing that...


Because as soon as you break combat or change target you drop back down to the starting percentages

Plv6Dz6.jpg

Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills ::  Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA Rewards

Dragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue


#14
Silver_Corner
[ Display Name History ]

Silver_Corner

    Dark Wizard Robe

  • Members
  • 773 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Joined:9 November 2006
  • RuneScape Status:P2P





It's not that big a deal unless you are a nooby mage.

Rangers will get pwned its a given, part of the combat triangle.

But any decent mage, turmoil or not, can stop the meleer even getting to them. Why do you think in combat mini-games there is always like 30+ people attempting to pile the ancient mage but like no-one reaches them cause they r frozen and it takes several minutes to manage to get them?


Someone here forgot the Combat Triangle is unbalanced....


t's not perfectly balanced no, but it still roughly works.

As a ranger you can usually get a mage down if you can hit hard enough.
As a mage you can usually get a meleer down if you use ice and binds to keep them from getting you
As a meleer you can usually own a ranger with easy


Except the fact that you get called a farcaster noob and you will have to tank which defeats the whole purpose of being a mage <_<

Its ok for a meleer to own a ranger
Its ok for a ranger to own a mage
But if a mage starts owning a meleer...0mfg n00b farcaster gtf0


So who cares?
That just dumb meleers who rarely know the combat triangle and assume they should own all. The whole point of mage is it is not a close up skill, you're meant to stay back out of trouble and take foes down.


It's not so much that, as it is hybrid issues. When a person only uses one type of armor/weapon, the triangle works fine. When you mix weapons and armors, melee always comes out the victor in terms of bonuses.

We've all heard the d'hide example so I wont bother explaining it.

The problem is the way the skills are designed. Melee is the only skill that is not dependent on armor bonuses, and because of that when hybriding comes into play melee ALWAYS has the advantage. Melee can switch defense bonuses without any loss of attack bonuses. So as good as the triangle looks on paper, it simply doesn't work like that in the real world.

Yes, but this encompasses more then just pures on PvP worlds. This effects ranging and maging in Castle Wars, Fist of Guthix, Clan Wars and Stealing Creation.


I don't think its really necessary for this to include anything except Dangerous PvP. The reason of that is in castle wars, fist of guthix, ect.. Your combat level is not important. In those minigames you would be hindering yourself not to train melee skills. In PvP the opposite is the case because who you can fight is directly related to your combat level.

As for the the turmoil, rumor has it Jagex may be adding a "turmoil" like prayer for magic and range in the future. If that is true, it may make turmoil not so powerful. Especially if the magic prayer has the ability to reduce melee damage.
Posted Image

#15
Sy_Accursed
[ Display Name History ]

Sy_Accursed

    Post Junkie

  • Members
  • 16,851 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norfolk, UK
  • Joined:22 December 2004
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Sy Accursed
I personally don;t think hybriding is a break of the triangle.

If you can successfully hybrid the point is that you cross between two classes and thus gain the upper hand.

Eg melee + range hybrid can beat melee and mage easy peasy

I do think however the issue does lie in that melee/range hybridding is too easy as virtually none of the range armours (d hide) req a range level, meaning without actually being a rnager at all you can adopt this hybird to tank out mages.

Plv6Dz6.jpg

Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills ::  Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA Rewards

Dragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue


#16
blackeagle4
[ Display Name History ]

blackeagle4

    Goblin Armour

  • Members
  • 102 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia
  • Joined:7 October 2007
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Black Eagle4

I personally don;t think hybriding is a break of the triangle.

If you can successfully hybrid the point is that you cross between two classes and thus gain the upper hand.

Eg melee + range hybrid can beat melee and mage easy peasy

I do think however the issue does lie in that melee/range hybridding is too easy as virtually none of the range armours (d hide) req a range level, meaning without actually being a rnager at all you can adopt this hybird to tank out mages.


None of the range armour require a range level?

derp?

Black d'hide - 70 range req
Armadyl - 70 range req
Karils - 70 range req

Tthey may not be high but I'mm pretty sure thats still a requirement.

Oh and with the curses; if your stats are reduced by X%, it slowly returns back to normal, same as if your stats are increased. if you reduce the defence of something to -25%, changing target means you have to start again, nothing to do with breaking combat.
Posted Image

#17
Sy_Accursed
[ Display Name History ]

Sy_Accursed

    Post Junkie

  • Members
  • 16,851 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norfolk, UK
  • Joined:22 December 2004
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Sy Accursed


I personally don;t think hybriding is a break of the triangle.

If you can successfully hybrid the point is that you cross between two classes and thus gain the upper hand.

Eg melee + range hybrid can beat melee and mage easy peasy

I do think however the issue does lie in that melee/range hybridding is too easy as virtually none of the range armours (d hide) req a range level, meaning without actually being a rnager at all you can adopt this hybird to tank out mages.


None of the range armour require a range level?

derp?

Black d'hide - 70 range req
Armadyl - 70 range req
Karils - 70 range req

Tthey may not be high but I'mm pretty sure thats still a requirement.

Oh and with the curses; if your stats are reduced by X%, it slowly returns back to normal, same as if your stats are increased. if you reduce the defence of something to -25%, changing target means you have to start again, nothing to do with breaking combat.


I said VIRTUALLY none of, meaning the MAJORITY

If you compare Melee you get bronze and iron with no stat reqs
Mage get basic mage robes and a plain staff
Range get basic leather, hard leather, studded leather

When you put this into perspective. Most rangers, especially in dangerous situations use black d hide to avoid major lose via arm and karil. Green d'hide only needs a mere 40 range to use, yet (as shown here) is only 10 - 15 defence points worse than black; which for higher levels is nothing. and equally range attack only halves, which isn't tht huge a leap

Compare this to the gap to that of the statless/low end mage/melee armour and its "safe" but high end counterparts and you're looking at defence and attack bonus tripling and quadrupling at the very least.

So as I said IMO the issue is you can hybrid with range armour (with decent stats) far too easily.

Plv6Dz6.jpg

Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills ::  Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA Rewards

Dragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue


#18
blackeagle4
[ Display Name History ]

blackeagle4

    Goblin Armour

  • Members
  • 102 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia
  • Joined:7 October 2007
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Black Eagle4



I personally don;t think hybriding is a break of the triangle.

If you can successfully hybrid the point is that you cross between two classes and thus gain the upper hand.

Eg melee + range hybrid can beat melee and mage easy peasy

I do think however the issue does lie in that melee/range hybridding is too easy as virtually none of the range armours (d hide) req a range level, meaning without actually being a rnager at all you can adopt this hybird to tank out mages.


None of the range armour require a range level?

derp?

Black d'hide - 70 range req
Armadyl - 70 range req
Karils - 70 range req

Tthey may not be high but I'mm pretty sure thats still a requirement.

Oh and with the curses; if your stats are reduced by X%, it slowly returns back to normal, same as if your stats are increased. if you reduce the defence of something to -25%, changing target means you have to start again, nothing to do with breaking combat.


I said VIRTUALLY none of, meaning the MAJORITY

If you compare Melee you get bronze and iron with no stat reqs
Mage get basic mage robes and a plain staff
Range get basic leather, hard leather, studded leather

When you put this into perspective. Most rangers, especially in dangerous situations use black d hide to avoid major lose via arm and karil. Green d'hide only needs a mere 40 range to use, yet (as shown here) is only 10 - 15 defence points worse than black; which for higher levels is nothing. and equally range attack only halves, which isn't tht huge a leap

Compare this to the gap to that of the statless/low end mage/melee armour and its "safe" but high end counterparts and you're looking at defence and attack bonus tripling and quadrupling at the very least.

So as I said IMO the issue is you can hybrid with range armour (with decent stats) far too easily.



Oh okay, that's true,
i don't see why someone with 70+ Range would use green though, Range armour is the cheapest compared to the most common melee/mage armours (Mystic and Rune, both 200k or so for a set)

i guess thats why Rangers get called welfarers more often, and actually succeed way more than someone welfaring mage/melee lol
Posted Image

#19
Sy_Accursed
[ Display Name History ]

Sy_Accursed

    Post Junkie

  • Members
  • 16,851 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norfolk, UK
  • Joined:22 December 2004
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Sy Accursed
I didn't say someone with 70+ would use green.

My point was you CAN hybrid to range and wear armour thts only really marginally worse than the best with only lvl 40

Opposed to melle and mage where to get the marginally worse than best gear u still need 60 - 70 region

Plv6Dz6.jpg

Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills ::  Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA Rewards

Dragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue


#20
Me_Hate_Libs
[ Display Name History ]

Me_Hate_Libs

    Moss Giant Whipper

  • Members
  • 2,545 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Florida
  • Joined:30 October 2004
  • RuneScape Status:Semi-Retired
I have a solution. Don't PVP. There, problem solved. :thumbsup:
This website and its contents are copyright © 1999 - 2010 Jagex Ltd.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users