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constitution, prayer, and summoning


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#1
91soldin91
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With the constitution update life points were separated from the constitution skill. Now, only two skills (prayer and summoning) remain that are drained as you use them. Do you think that Jagex will separate these skills as well? Although there isn't really a need for it, I feel it would make it more sense to newer players. The icons are already in the right hand corner are already there, and i assume the technical stuff wouldn't be too hard as they already did it with constitution.
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#2
Grimy_Bunyip
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With the constitution update life points were separated from the constitution skill. Now, only two skills (prayer and summoning) remain that are drained as you use them. Do you think that Jagex will separate these skills as well? Although there isn't really a need for it, I feel it would make it more sense to newer players. The icons are already in the right hand corner are already there, and i assume the technical stuff wouldn't be too hard as they already did it with constitution.

I guess that would make sense, and I'd support it if this happened, But I personally like looking at smaller numbers
I don't have the intuition with max hits i used to.
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#3
91soldin91
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It wouldn't necessarily be x10 like life points are, they could just separate it so that the skill icon in your stats tab doesn't change, only the icon on the screen does. (I feel they should have done this with constitution also, would have solved most of the problems and kept it looking like rs)
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#4
Urza285
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To be honest I agree with this. The concept of the split between lp and constitution pretty much hit me two days after the update and I was stuck wondering the same thing myself. I mean constitution conceptwise is kind of like hardiness. The more hardier a player is the more they can withstand. The same thing should go for prayer and summoning. I guess I should try and put a name to these kind of skills. How about "influencial skills?" Currently constitution is the only skill that will have the ability to be influenced by gear. For example maybe we'll have some gear that will give you a 1.25x lp/constitution lvl boost. Something like that would raise the lp cap from 990 to... 1113 (if truncated). Isn't that neato? Imagine summoning and prayer being that that. The only question I have is aren't prayer and summoning already like that? they are skills that drain and the drain rate is dependant on the options selected and what prayer bonuses they have. So to be honest maybe having prayer and summoning like this wouldn't be neccessary unless you were trying to keep things uniform.



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#5
91soldin91
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To be honest I agree with this. The concept of the split between lp and constitution pretty much hit me two days after the update and I was stuck wondering the same thing myself. I mean constitution conceptwise is kind of like hardiness. The more hardier a player is the more they can withstand. The same thing should go for prayer and summoning. I guess I should try and put a name to these kind of skills. How about "influencial skills?" Currently constitution is the only skill that will have the ability to be influenced by gear. For example maybe we'll have some gear that will give you a 1.25x lp/constitution lvl boost. Something like that would raise the lp cap from 990 to... 1113 (if truncated). Isn't that neato? Imagine summoning and prayer being that that. The only question I have is aren't prayer and summoning already like that? they are skills that drain and the drain rate is dependant on the options selected and what prayer bonuses they have. So to be honest maybe having prayer and summoning like this wouldn't be neccessary unless you were trying to keep things uniform.


yeah, I was thinking that since constitution is like that, why not make prayer and summoning the same. Might be a little bit of OCD but I think having them all the same would be better
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#6
Robert_R
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It would make sense for them to do a similar thing to those two skills. What I mean is having the level in the skill tab not decrease, just the level on the top right.

#7
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I'd say no. There is no need for it.
The reason they updated it was to remove all the 0s that new players do so they would think the game is more fun.
There is no need to do that with summoning and prayer.

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#8
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I'd say no. There is no need for it.
The reason they updated it was to remove all the 0s that new players do so they would think the game is more fun.
There is no need to do that with summoning and prayer.


Actually, i think they changed it so they could separate the level from the actual hitpoints, allowing boosting armour and other items to be allowed into the game <_<

The less 0's was just an added bonus.

#9
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The one potential problem I can see is that if they do that, then if you're in an area such as GWD cave north of trollheim where the snow reduces your stats and prayer fell (on the skill page) below 96 then you'd no longer able to activate turmoil. Of course they could simply make this not happen, but it then wouldn't follow suit with skills like magic whereby you can't teleport if your mage level drops too low.

But yes, if they found a "workaround" for this then i'd fully support it.
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#10
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The one potential problem I can see is that if they do that, then if you're in an area such as GWD cave north of trollheim where the snow reduces your stats and prayer fell (on the skill page) below 96 then you'd no longer able to activate turmoil. Of course they could simply make this not happen, but it then wouldn't follow suit with skills like magic whereby you can't teleport if your mage level drops too low.

But yes, if they found a "workaround" for this then i'd fully support it.


Thats what I was thinking about as well.


Eh, I like the system the way it is, but I'd support it. Anything to make my stat page neater :D

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#11
Krampell
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I'd say no. There is no need for it.
The reason they updated it was to remove all the 0s that new players do so they would think the game is more fun.
There is no need to do that with summoning and prayer.


Actually, i think they changed it so they could separate the level from the actual hitpoints, allowing boosting armour and other items to be allowed into the game <_<

The less 0's was just an added bonus.

They said in the dev diary it was for low levels, but eh...

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#12
Ketchup2209
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I'd say no. There is no need for it.
The reason they updated it was to remove all the 0s that new players do so they would think the game is more fun.
There is no need to do that with summoning and prayer.


Actually, i think they changed it so they could separate the level from the actual hitpoints, allowing boosting armour and other items to be allowed into the game <_<

The less 0's was just an added bonus.

They said in the dev diary it was for low levels, but eh...


They added the constitution change for the low levels AND potential LP increasing armor, stop arguing.

For the topic I don't think they should separate prayer and summoning currently. There just isn't any good reason to right now.

#13
Karvinen
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Jagex could add prayer ability increasing potions and reducing spells if they separated points and levels.

E.g.
-Your prayer level is 91 and you drink a prayer ability potion to use soul split temporarily.

-Your prayer level is 95 and you're hit with a spell that reduces prayer level. You can't use turmoil anymore until it has restored or you drink a restore potion.

#14
Bayonnetta
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Jagex could add prayer ability increasing potions and reducing spells if they separated points and levels.

E.g.
-Your prayer level is 91 and you drink a prayer ability potion to use soul split temporarily.

-Your prayer level is 95 and you're hit with a spell that reduces prayer level. You can't use turmoil anymore until it has restored or you drink a restore potion.



The problem with that is it would devalue high prayer levels, and would make it difficult to use high-level prayers. Surely it would work like with attack/strength/defense? If, say, your stats are drained lower then 70 attack then you can still use a whip, which is much more practical then knocked someone down a couple of prayer levels so they cant use the prayer they have spent mils on getting?



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#15
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It's not exactly an issue compare to HP/Constitution, which has the potential to solve the problem of weapons hitting too high, or players/monsters limited to hitting a maximum of 98 damage in the old system. Prayer has a stat, prayer bonus to modiify the speed of drainage, while summoning is just important for the kind of monster you can summon. I normally won't care too much about how summoning points I have left once I have summoned whatever I needed, and all it takes is a dose of summoning potion to re-summon as well. It's not exactly necessary to keep these two in line with constitution, nor should we have the ability to use prayer/familiar above the exact level required.

My guess of the HP boost is not a multiplier factor, but rather a direct addition to the LP orb. If, for example, a new chestplate has a + 20 Constitution bonus, and you're level 99 in Constitution, it would display the skill level as 99/99, but the orb would change from 990/990 to 990/1190 immediately when you equip the chestplate. You can then heal to 1190/1190 with any food, and boost beyond with Sara brew. If Jagex tried to implement this with the old system, the display in the skill tab would have been confusing, since it display the same HP as the orb value.
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#16
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Jagex could add prayer ability increasing potions and reducing spells if they separated points and levels.

E.g.
-Your prayer level is 91 and you drink a prayer ability potion to use soul split temporarily.

-Your prayer level is 95 and you're hit with a spell that reduces prayer level. You can't use turmoil anymore until it has restored or you drink a restore potion.



The problem with that is it would devalue high prayer levels, and would make it difficult to use high-level prayers. Surely it would work like with attack/strength/defense? If, say, your stats are drained lower then 70 attack then you can still use a whip, which is much more practical then knocked someone down a couple of prayer levels so they cant use the prayer they have spent mils on getting?

It worked with magic, didn't it?


It's not exactly an issue compare to HP/Constitution, which has the potential to solve the problem of weapons hitting too high, or players/monsters limited to hitting a maximum of 98 damage in the old system. Prayer has a stat, prayer bonus to modiify the speed of drainage, while summoning is just important for the kind of monster you can summon. I normally won't care too much about how summoning points I have left once I have summoned whatever I needed, and all it takes is a dose of summoning potion to re-summon as well. It's not exactly necessary to keep these two in line with constitution, nor should we have the ability to use prayer/familiar above the exact level required.

My guess of the HP boost is not a multiplier factor, but rather a direct addition to the LP orb. If, for example, a new chestplate has a + 20 Constitution bonus, and you're level 99 in Constitution, it would display the skill level as 99/99, but the orb would change from 990/990 to 990/1190 immediately when you equip the chestplate. You can then heal to 1190/1190 with any food, and boost beyond with Sara brew. If Jagex tried to implement this with the old system, the display in the skill tab would have been confusing, since it display the same HP as the orb value.


What you suggested would be considered a special equipment stat, since it's directly tied to whether or not you have the chestplate equipped, but that's going into a completely different mechanic that I don't think the engine is prepared for yet. The idea is to have a potion that you drink. Your constitution level goes to 119/99, but your lifepoints is still 990. However, if you then eat some food that heals 200, your lifepoints goes up to 1190. Your constitution level degrades by one like all skills to 118/99, your lifepoints gradually drop to 1180. It then degrades again to 117/99, and your lifepoints gradually drop to 1170 and so on.


And what's wrong with the ability to temporarily use prayers above your level, or summon a familiar above your level? It'd be a nice feature.


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#17
Zepheras
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Jagex could add prayer ability increasing potions and reducing spells if they separated points and levels.

E.g.
-Your prayer level is 91 and you drink a prayer ability potion to use soul split temporarily.

-Your prayer level is 95 and you're hit with a spell that reduces prayer level. You can't use turmoil anymore until it has restored or you drink a restore potion.



The problem with that is it would devalue high prayer levels, and would make it difficult to use high-level prayers. Surely it would work like with attack/strength/defense? If, say, your stats are drained lower then 70 attack then you can still use a whip, which is much more practical then knocked someone down a couple of prayer levels so they cant use the prayer they have spent mils on getting?

It worked with magic, didn't it?


It's not exactly an issue compare to HP/Constitution, which has the potential to solve the problem of weapons hitting too high, or players/monsters limited to hitting a maximum of 98 damage in the old system. Prayer has a stat, prayer bonus to modiify the speed of drainage, while summoning is just important for the kind of monster you can summon. I normally won't care too much about how summoning points I have left once I have summoned whatever I needed, and all it takes is a dose of summoning potion to re-summon as well. It's not exactly necessary to keep these two in line with constitution, nor should we have the ability to use prayer/familiar above the exact level required.

My guess of the HP boost is not a multiplier factor, but rather a direct addition to the LP orb. If, for example, a new chestplate has a + 20 Constitution bonus, and you're level 99 in Constitution, it would display the skill level as 99/99, but the orb would change from 990/990 to 990/1190 immediately when you equip the chestplate. You can then heal to 1190/1190 with any food, and boost beyond with Sara brew. If Jagex tried to implement this with the old system, the display in the skill tab would have been confusing, since it display the same HP as the orb value.


What you suggested would be considered a special equipment stat, since it's directly tied to whether or not you have the chestplate equipped, but that's going into a completely different mechanic that I don't think the engine is prepared for yet. The idea is to have a potion that you drink. Your constitution level goes to 119/99, but your lifepoints is still 990. However, if you then eat some food that heals 200, your lifepoints goes up to 1190. Your constitution level degrades by one like all skills to 118/99, your lifepoints gradually drop to 1180. It then degrades again to 117/99, and your lifepoints gradually drop to 1170 and so on.


And what's wrong with the ability to temporarily use prayers above your level, or summon a familiar above your level? It'd be a nice feature.



Putting aside the issue of whether the engine is ready for the idea I mentioned, I personally don't find the 'potion' idea very useful. Sure, it helps you survive big hits as well, but the fact that it degrades with time means that you're at the end of the day, dependant on potions, and not armours, for your hit survival. Unless future high level armours do something beyond just increasing the chances of zero hits on you, such as damage reducing/HP increasing, they won't differ much from existing armours besides graphical and stats difference. Damage reducing would be interesting, but not a good reason for the Constitution change, since it is always possible to introduce high hitting weapon or monster + damage reducing armour such that pitting one against the other would never yield a damage above 99, which is why I'm guessing rhe latter possibility.

And when using potions, if it's a slow degradation over time (1 point per min), you have to constantly check your stats page to see how 'boosted' you are, which defeats the purpose of separating the numbers in the first place.

I don't have any programming background, but to me eating a potion that boost your max HP capacity, and wearing an armour to boost your max HP capacity looks like the same thing to me, somewhat like the Monster Hunter game on PSP and Wii. If the engine isn't ready for it, they can always start on it. :thumbup: So yea, I'm talking about equipment stats, much like prayer bonus changing the drain rate, strength bonus changing the max damage....a new stats to meet new demand.
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#18
InkofDeath
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I'd say no. There is no need for it.
The reason they updated it was to remove all the 0s that new players do so they would think the game is more fun.
There is no need to do that with summoning and prayer.


There was much more behind it than that. It was so the decimal numbers wouldn't always be excluded and hits would be much more accurate. As well as increasing the opportunity for content that can 'play' around with the points more. It was a game mechanic change more so than a game play change.

And the same reasons behind the Hitpoints change can be reasoned with Prayer & Summoning and they fit perfectly.




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