Jump to content

Welcome to Rune Tips, the first ever RuneScape help site. We aim to offer skill guides, quest guides, maps, calculators, informative databases, tips, and much more to help you get the most from the Massive Online Adventure Game, RuneScape, by Jagex Ltd © 2009.

Report Ad

Welcome to Forum.Tip.It
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Tip.it Times 18 April 2010


  • Please log in to reply
56 replies to this topic

#21
Troacctid
[ Display Name History ]

Troacctid

    Ice Giant Melter

  • Members
  • 4,419 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:California
  • Joined:27 February 2008
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Troacctid
  • Clan:The Farming Guild
I have to resent the way that the 2nd article purports to represent the entire Runescape community. The author can't possibly have any legitimate statistics to back up any of the statements in the article, especially those like "A large percentage of the RuneScapian population hate the skill – this could mean people quitting, and a loss in money."

And what's worse is that he attempts to explain the viewpoint of a group he admits he doesn't belong to. Frankly, the information presented is just not true, and I'm offended at the suggestion that we all actively despise Dungeoneering for exactly three reasons, two of which are irrelevant and shallow and one of which is purely semantical. If you want to rant about RSOF trolls, then rant about RSOF trolls, but don't pretend like there are no legitimate criticisms of the update.

tl;dr Requiem's article is either a dishonest editorial or a factually incorrect news article. Two thumbs down. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

#22
the_korny
[ Display Name History ]

the_korny

    Bear Fur

  • Members
  • 262 posts
2nd Article:

I agree that Dungeoneering is like Left4Dead (which I play a lot of).
You could describe both as:
A series of instanced events that works better with multiple people playing than by yourself. Since the situation is never exactly the same, you need a quick mind, quick reflexes, and a solid internet connection to be the most effective player who reacts appropriately to a sudden change.

As a matter of FACT, I suggested a minigame along the lines of Left 4 Dead about a year ago when I was playing it much more often. Of course, that was for a minigame. I think that Dungeoneering should be a minigame. When it was first announced on April 12, my first thought was that April Fools Day was 11 days ago, like several rants in RSOF.

Furthermore, I think that Summoning should have been the absolute last skill that required combat participation to level up effectively. I don't like how combat is becoming a functional part of other skills. The only way combat should be an integral part of a new skill would be for a new type of combat to arise, turning the triangle into a square.
I've never seen Sixth Sense nor Inception nor many other popular movies and I intend to keep it that way.

#23
LinkOlaran
[ Display Name History ]

LinkOlaran

    Bear Fur

  • Members
  • 404 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:World 99
  • Joined:22 May 2009
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Link Olaran
The first article, well... I've never been all too knowledgeable as to how the economy works (due to sheer laziness, mind you), so... It was an interesting read, and fairly well written, though.

The second article, while there are some problems with how the writer put some things, it does raise a few points that Jagex will (hopefully) address sometime soon...

The sheer number of bugs in the skill so far - I'm sure a good number of us have encountered at least one of these, plus hearing about this... runecrafting bug that gave what, 10k xp per ess used? Even I'll admit that's a massive oversight on Jagex's part. I personally have encountered some type of key glitch where the last door and the only key left don't match, and very rarely I've encountered the 'examine nothing' glitch. Overall, I personally haven't seen that many within the dungeon itself, but I have been black/whitescreening quite a bit since the release. We have to think, though - dungeoneering is a very large and complex skill, so there's bound to be glitches and the like on release - saying nothing about Jagex's incompetence at times.

I personally am not bothered by the comparisons to WOW and other games with 'raiding' functions, mainly because I've never played them before... I can see the lines being drawn between them, though.

The 'level 120 = true skill mastery' thing somewhat bothers me in the fact that we stop getting... well, new floors to unlock at level 69 - meaning at that level our xp rate/hour probably, if I'm correct anyway, won't go up any further from that point forward. That's my concern, anyway - that the xp rate that we get at level 69 is supposed to carry us all the way to level 120 - I'm betting on Jagex releasing more floors with the next Dungeoneering batch, though.

The reward system, so far as I'm concerned, is completely broken. There is zero point in putting these level requirements on the items if it takes that + 40 more levelups just to get the points to buy the damn thing. Either they're going to lower the token req for most of the items (probably leaving the really powerful stuff with higher token reqs), or they're going to toss the system altogether, and allow us to get them in some other fashion - boss drops or something. Personally, I believe if they keep the system, make it so we can buy the object in question within 5/10 levels after unlocking it - that seems fairly balanced to me.

The addition of resuming solo dungeons would be a godsend to me, since I play mostly solo games to begin with. Plus, I have a tendency of dropping connection sometimes, although it hasn't booted me out of the dungeon yet.

These skill doors annoy the hell out of me, to be perfectly honest with you. The ones I can get through don't bother me, obviously, but the ones that need 100+ really aggravate me - it wouldn't bother me so much if I actually had time to find the herbs to make a potion to boost over the req and open the door, but almost every time, the herb either cannot be found on the floor, or the boost I need is far larger than any potion I can make. I've missed out on half the rooms on one floor because of one of these doors already... either make it so that the herbs are a more common drop (which still won't help the people with low herblore), or make the appearance of the doors with your skill level + 20 lower dramatically - I don't mind having to work a little and make a potion to open a door, but at least give me that chance, instead of screwing me over from the start.

It seems like the defence of every single creature in the dungeon is, well... ridiculously high. I understand that everything in there has a specific weakness, but even using a promethium spear with 95 attack, switching and trying all styles, it still doesn't quite cut it for a lot of things - I've encountered creatures that, considering what it is, and the amount of lp it should have, should only take me 10-20 seconds to kill, but it takes me twice that, since I constantly hit zeros, even if I keep switching styles until I find the (semi) correct one. Either this is perfectly normal, or I really suck at hitting things.

The accuracy of some creatures is also a bit... overly powerful. The shades that we encounter mostly in the ice floors, and a little bit later on are notoriously difficult to kill, just because they hit every single time. Praying magic cuts the damage down considerably, but it's still very powerful in comparison to other creatures you encounter on those floors. Again, either this is normal, or my defence sucks.

The items one gets from bosses on solo runs seem a lot on the... cheap side, if you ask me. I'm constantly getting tier 5 ish items, and rarely something higher - I've gotten maybe 1-2 promethium items, that's it. Hell, the last floor I cleared (floor... 16/17 or so), I got a novite full helm. I snickered a bit at that, but when it comes time for me to bind a second item, I don't know if I'll even encounter something I want to keep on a solo run.


Too long, didn't read - I personally love the Dungeoneering skill, although it has a ton of flaws in it right now. I believe that Jagex will attempt to fix the problems with it as it stands now, and release a second batch (hopefully including more floors to explore) that will hopefully make it more appealing to those who dislike it right now.

#24
P_E_N_N_Y
[ Display Name History ]

P_E_N_N_Y

    Spider Egg

  • Members
  • 60 posts
  • Location:Ireland
  • Joined:8 August 2007
I liked both, the first said before anything else that they weren't saying anything new so i don't know what you guys are so stressed out about, it was a nice summary, and i thought of a few ideas regarding the second and what some people have said,

- Dungeoneering being generally combat based but not providing people a way to make money like that is something i hadn't thought of, but its still in its infancy of course, that would be a good update when the skill is tweaked and ironed out next like summoning was.

- The author can't assume to know how we all feel, but you can't deny there was major criticism about this "skill". Hate is too strong a word though, because although its one of the greatest pieces of content recently, a new skill is the ultimate update and needs to be something so immense that it revolutionizes the game down to its very core, the next tier of weapons and a couple of handy trinkets are NOT worthy of a whole new skill, even less so than the weaker skills recently like hunter and construction (they managed to introduce new aspects to the game at least). I feel that people are more let-down by it than hateful of it, its a truly awesome game/activity but the sorriest excuse and release of a skill i've ever seen, and i'm a grumpy RS classic vet. Hey, it could always get better though.

- The only WoW rip-off is the way they're flaunting title page at the moment, "Runescape, Dungeons of Daemonheim" like it's a whole new expansion, I quite liked RS for not buying into stuff like that, but oh well. Anyway, raids or randomly generated dungeons whatever you want to called them aren't new, randomly generated gameplay was around long before RS and WoW were even being made. I'm sure everyone remembers worms, simple and fun but there were also more developed examples even back then. There was a game for the sega saturn called Virtual Hydlide that, whilst being uglier than the lovechild of general graardor a gluttonous behemoth, was a completely randomly generated game every time you played it, dunegon layouts, monsters, item locations, everything, and this was back in 1995.

- It may be a bit like left 4 dead but it reminds me more of classic. With all the different skills people can specialise in dungeoneering is pretty much the ultimate teamwork game, it really brings you back to when people were just starting out and had to focus on the basic things like making the best armour not just that they can wear, but that they can FIND. All other minigames either restrict or mess around with such fun and essential roles to the point where its a seperate reality to RS, this now is only contained in a dungeon, but it's player ingenuity and skill given free rein to accomplish the task of conquering the dungeon, its really just a smaller version of the game which relies on pure self-sufficency, something which many players have dreamed of experiencing (self-sufficency being something i pride myself on, my lowest stat being 66)

Also, runescape has evolved from pretty much just a world of combat, but i agree skills shouldn't need combat to be trained.

And having to leave shouldn't be a problem for anyone, since the annoying long process of actually getting out of the damn place ensures you get xp for the progress you made in the dungeon, which is quite a fair amount from what i've seen.

#25
strilmus
[ Display Name History ]

strilmus

    Moss Giant Whipper

  • Members
  • 2,910 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Joined:11 April 2006
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
Skillers don't have to be left out, y'know. Teams bring skillers with them since they are incapable of forging their own high level gear, and since it takes so long to gather resources and fight at the same time, a scavenger team member with runes for high alch and a harvesting kit (knife/hatchet/pick/tinderbox/hammer/fishingrodwithfeathers/farmingequips) can dedicate their time converting the useless resources and loot into gold just by following the trail of bloodshed and picking up everything that gets left behind. By the time the dungeon has been cleared, the scavenger will have enough gold to forge several suits of armor, ammunition, and perhaps food and potions should they require it and if herb drops are merciful. And all that fishing/cooking/wc/mining/smithing/crafting/rc/fletching/herblore gives a reasonable amount of exp.

8f14270694.jpg


#26
firebird308
[ Display Name History ]

firebird308

    Bear Fur

  • Members
  • 293 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Joined:12 August 2006
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:SilverFox30
  • Clan:PVM Skilling to 99

And having to leave shouldn't be a problem for anyone, since the annoying long process of actually getting out of the damn place ensures you get xp for the progress you made in the dungeon, which is quite a fair amount from what i've seen.


It can be a problem if the reason you have to leave is because an emergency comes up that requires you to leave the computer. Or possibly something more minor but no less needed like having to take a bathroom and/or food break.

Silverfox30.png


If you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.
^^^At least I'm not the only crazy one


#27
strilmus
[ Display Name History ]

strilmus

    Moss Giant Whipper

  • Members
  • 2,910 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Joined:11 April 2006
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
Yeah, I think with the next Dungeoneering update, they will figure out how to temporarily save sessions so that you and perhaps your buddies can take a break without having to rush a fairly large dungeon just so you can save your progress and leave....or just make it so that if you are all suddenly booted outside the dungeon, you can pick up where you left off without any kind of ragequitting involved.

I mean, since they are planning to make single player sessions savable, I think there would be no reason to make it impossible for teams either.

8f14270694.jpg


#28
A0z9
[ Display Name History ]

A0z9

    Goblin Armour

  • Members
  • 132 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malta
  • Joined:3 March 2010
  • RuneScape Status:F2P
  • RSN:La Vallett1
  • RSN2:La Vallett3
  • Clan:The Scrying Pool

Hi :)

I quite enjoyed the first article, it was a nice summary of the last couple of years in Runescape.

I can't say the same for the second article though. Firstly I just want to say: I love Dungeoneering. It's definitely my favourite update of the last 12 months. However, you've completely ignored the majority of Runescape players when you say it's unpopular; far from it. I spend a huge amount of time on the RSOF (I'm an FMod there) and although there have been many complaints about it, there have been hundreds less than with some of the other updates this year (Strykewyms and Constitution come to mind). Nearly everyone I know absolutely loves it, and the general feeling seems to be one of popularity, not rejection.

In case you needed more proof, the number of people playing Runescape at one time hit the 200k mark today for only the second time in the last year (the other time was during the Bonus XP weekend). This is because of the new skill.

I know many people say it's a minigame, and I can see why. However, I think I know what Jagex were thinking when they made it a skill instead. Runescape revolves around skilling; that is an undeniable fact. However, most skilling is just grinding; people nearly always choose the boring way to play instead of what is fun in the game (as highlighted in last week's Times. By making this a skill (and therefore a core piece of content) they're trying to change the focus of the game from boring grinding to more interesting ways of playing.

Also, it's far too big to be a minigame. No minigame compares to the size of Dungeoneering.

Plus, when you ask what can it offer the game, have you seen the rewards? Like Slayer it offers new weapons, as well as a whole load of other useful items. They're also releasing a new batch of rewards soon, as well as making the prices more realistic. I'd call this the most useful single skill in terms of helping train other skills, apart from perhaps Summoning.

And it completely baffles me when people call it repetitive; compare it to other skills, and it's one of the least repetitive and most varied in the game!

So I love it, and I am certain the people who hate it are in the minority ;)

Off topic: Hey nas, how are you? I love reading your threads in Future Updates!

On topic: I actually agree with both articles, except when the 2nd autor said the minority like the update.
La Vallett1

A.k.a. "Nostalgic Vallett"

What's been said must be done.

#29
waheera1
[ Display Name History ]

waheera1

    Unicorn Horn

  • Members
  • 161 posts
  • Joined:11 December 2007
Hrmm... Not sure what to make of these - seems both articles didn't really provide any insightful thoughts about their chosen subject matter.

Article 1 was ok, but did it really shed new light on an old topic? I'm afraid I didn't think so, plus it was also factually dubious - is 5.6k really the pre-summoning value of dragon bones?! Or 6.3k for an uncut emerald? Or is the author only talking about weapons and armour? This wasn't made entirely clear, yet has the capacity to nullify pretty much the entire article. Added to which, there was no mention at all of key issues in pricing such as caused by junk trades etc. Whilst that may not seem such a huge issue, it has basically made the G.E. useless in terms of buying rare items - NOBODY will sell you a blue phat for 439.9M, so the ge pricing of such items is irrelevant in considering their alleged street value. I'll wager blue phats weren't allegedly worth over 1bn before summoning...

Article 2 was again flawed by its lack of precision. The author completely failed to mention the utterly arbitrary reward level requirements, whereby the lvl 21 bonecrusher requires xp for lvl 74 before you can buy, or the lvl 25 gem bag requires somewhere around 52. Nor did the f2p nerf get a mention, something which has utterly incensed many f2p players and will no doubt prompt several of the high lvl 'f2p pures' to quit too. There are just too many holes in this summary for it to really stand as a fair representation of the massed disappointment shown by many.

It has also missed out the constructive criticism offered by numerous people, offering Jagex insight into how their players would like to see Dungeoneering updated - not all dissenters are trolls or unfairly dismissive. Many, like myself, actually rather like the concept, but find its current incarnation unacceptable.

#30
yuriqiu
[ Display Name History ]

yuriqiu

    Bear Fur

  • Members
  • 500 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Joined:28 October 2005
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Yuriqiu
Dungeon is an pretty fun MINIGAME in my opinion. I honestly felt that Jagex felt pressured to release a new skill so they packaged a minigame as a skill. Is it fun? yes. Is it really a skill? I would debate that it is not.
Posted Image

#31
A0z9
[ Display Name History ]

A0z9

    Goblin Armour

  • Members
  • 132 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malta
  • Joined:3 March 2010
  • RuneScape Status:F2P
  • RSN:La Vallett1
  • RSN2:La Vallett3
  • Clan:The Scrying Pool

Dungeon is an pretty fun MINIGAME in my opinion. I honestly felt that Jagex felt pressured to release a new skill so they packaged a minigame as a skill. Is it fun? yes. Is it really a skill? I would debate that it is not.

So? It's 10x bigger than Falador, it has countless content and it is completely randomised, and you call it a minigame?! Not even the largest minigame in all games is that big!
La Vallett1

A.k.a. "Nostalgic Vallett"

What's been said must be done.

#32
zotto
[ Display Name History ]

zotto

    Scorpion Pit

  • Members
  • 723 posts
I found the second article overly negative, opinionated and not representative at all. Maybe articles like that should start with a big disclaimer.

Outraged people
I think people who get outraged because a skill gets released on a MMOPRG probably have some personal issues that surpass those they find so awful in the game.

That is because it's a game. You don't have to play. You certainly don't have to play all aspects of the game. If you don't like dungeoneering, then don't do the skill. End story. No need to get upset about it. People suffer and die for no good reason at all over the world every day. I think you have lost perspective of life if you get upset about changes to a game.

Dung'ing is a minigame
If someone wants to call a massive piece of content a 'mini'-game they can, but semantically there isn't any logic in that. Maybe the term maxi-game would be more appropriate. Or why not just suck it up and call it a skill.

Personal experience with dung'ing
I am currently level 30 dungeoneering and I both did solo dungeons and a few with a friend. I found both experiences enjoyable. In fact, I currently hardly do any other skills at the moment, that is outside the dungeons.


#33
CurrantBunbury
[ Display Name History ]

CurrantBunbury

    Chicken Feather

  • Members
  • 4 posts
  • Joined:16 April 2010
The subject of the first article is interesting. I'd like to look into the economics of Runescape in more depth - as a completely self-contained system, it's fascinating. On an unrelated note, the article was appallingly written This person needs a proofreader.

#34
waheera1
[ Display Name History ]

waheera1

    Unicorn Horn

  • Members
  • 161 posts
  • Joined:11 December 2007


Dungeon is an pretty fun MINIGAME in my opinion. I honestly felt that Jagex felt pressured to release a new skill so they packaged a minigame as a skill. Is it fun? yes. Is it really a skill? I would debate that it is not.

So? It's 10x bigger than Falador, it has countless content and it is completely randomised, and you call it a minigame?! Not even the largest minigame in all games is that big!


Size is not the only determining factor here, surely you can see that? Compare dungeoneering and its xp/reward systems to any other skill, is it managed in a similar fashion? No, not really. Compare it to a minigame (sc, ba and even trouble brewing spring to mind here), are there obvious similarities? Yes. That's why it's being called a minigame, of course, if you apply the prefix 'mini' literally here then size is a determining factor. However, I don't think anyone posting about its minigame similarities pays any attention to its size so if you must be pedantic, call it a maxi-game as someone else suggested. Whatever you call it, the similarities are really rather obvious.

Personally, I don't care if it's a minigame or a skill, as I think it has great potential to become one of the most-played content updates in RS for some time to come. That said, I do believe it needs an update patch rather like summoning received before it can fulfill the potential that it so tantalisingly offers.

#35
tortilliachp
[ Display Name History ]

tortilliachp

    Hobgoblin Killer

  • Members
  • 1,693 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norway
  • Joined:20 November 2004
  • RuneScape Status:None
  • RSN:nacho
I'm very surprised, and deeply disappointed in seeing an analysis in the content of the new skill immediately, before players have had time to experience the content, and jagex has been given room to integrate the skill into other activities, rather than just releasing skills.

This week i was expecting analysis on how jagex have released skills in the past, and how a skill should be released. Batches, quests, skill integration, what is as skill, and so on and so forth. Those are the current events, we must wait to see how things progress, or pass judgement. Get back to us in 3 months at the soonest, when this type of article is relevant.

There are SO many possibilities, all discarded for analysing the actual skill prematurely, which in iself i would consider a cardinal sin of publication. Analysis is done after an event has transpired, not while it is ongoing. While a story still runs one analyses what should be done, what has been done, and what may happen in the near future. History is the judge of legacy, not the contemporary.

#36
Returned3
[ Display Name History ]

Returned3

    Varrock Guard

  • Members
  • 1,260 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Joined:18 October 2007
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Legend of R3
  • RSN2:R3 Trilogy
  • Clan:None

i cnt stand dungeoneering. one reason is if my friends arent on i cnt train it that well and i hate playing with random ppl bc they alwys end up being morons. also its just boring and if your gonna give out armour and weapons etc, make them more accessible. i will prob never do the skill again bc its just aweful


Despite the horrid language, he does have a valid point. Multiplayer Minigames/Activities/Skills with too much freedom usually end up horrid unless playing with friends. The reason activities such as Pest Control or Castle Wars don't have such a problem is because they are simply focused on one straight objective without any other distractions. Whereas Dungeoneering relies heavily on loots and obtaining the various raw materials to produce armour/food to complete the main objective. Most of the time when playing with complete strangers, each player will no doubt try to loot everything possible to produce the armour/food for themselves first before thinking about others. With the limited supply in the dungeons, this leads to a problem where either 1 player is completely powerful while the remaining are defenceless or all players have random items in their inventory that hardly do any good.

Don't get me wrong, I do love Dungeoneering. Although I have been solo-ing all the way.
00:00:05
00:00:04
00:00:03
00:00:02
00:00:01
00:00:00

Break the Walls down!

#37
Racheya
[ Display Name History ]

Racheya

    A noob

  • Editorial Panel
  • 7,253 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Salford, England
  • Joined:17 October 2008
  • RuneScape Status:Retired
  • RSN:Bernkastel
Don't worry, we aren't just taking an immediate opinion on the skill and leaving it at that ;) Expect more articles on Dungeoneering in the future when a better more 'long term' view can be taken.


Posted Image
I edit for the [Tip.It Times]. I rarely write in [My Blog]. I am an [Ex-Moderator].


#38
rthensley
[ Display Name History ]

rthensley

    Rat Meat

  • Members
  • 41 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Joined:18 December 2008
  • RuneScape Status:None
  • RSN:LORD PORUS
I love Dungeoneering, but sadly, it is not a "true" skill. It is an incredible, in-depth, maxi-game (as opposed to "mini").
Posted Image

#39
king_muumuu
[ Display Name History ]

king_muumuu

    Goblin Armour

  • Members
  • 82 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brazil
  • Joined:1 November 2005
  • RuneScape Status:None
  • RSN:King Muumuu
In the first article, last paragraph (I think):

prices would have changed naturly.


I'm surprised no one noticed that, or cared enough to post about it. Quite a slip by the editor/proof-reader.

I find the argumentation in the second article very flawed, the vocal dissatisfied minority in the forums by no means represent most of RS's population. I liked the skill just fine, and I don't feel the need to go and compliment Jagex for it. I'm sure many, many other people feel just the same.

#40
Racheya
[ Display Name History ]

Racheya

    A noob

  • Editorial Panel
  • 7,253 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Salford, England
  • Joined:17 October 2008
  • RuneScape Status:Retired
  • RSN:Bernkastel
If you PM that to Mirrorforced, he'll be able to fix it in the article :thumbup:


Posted Image
I edit for the [Tip.It Times]. I rarely write in [My Blog]. I am an [Ex-Moderator].





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users