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Tip.it Times 18 April 2010

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Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

 

When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

 

Enjoy the articles!


A reflection is just a distorted reality held by glass and your mind.

 

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I fall into the second category for dungeoneering. I think it is incredibly fun as long as you can find another person or two who are competent to run through it with.


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Regarding the first article, meh.

 

Saying exactly the same thing over and over, no new information, nothing ground-breaking. Like Danqazlmp stated, what a truly marvellous way to start an article. :thumbdown:

 

As for the second article, it wasn't bad, I myself fall in the same category as the author.


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138 Combat as of Summer 2010 - Retired Summer 2010

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I'm supportive of Dungeoneering, but I can see where other people come from when they dislike it.

Unfortunately, white it was SIX YEARS AGO that Jagex first said that they wanted to do the Random Generated Dungeons BEFORE WOW AND ALL OF THOSE GAMES WHICH ALREADY DO IT EVEN STARTED. O wait, WoW just has dungeons and they're not random. Not even the Elite monsters...

So I don't see the problem. RS was slow but they did it...


Boom! Dead Shot

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I instantly fell in love with Dungeoneering, it is slightly repetitive but I am gaining the occasional level in skills I don't train much, but need to in Dungeoneering, e.g. Smithing, Mining and Herblore. I love the way it combines all the skills and I look forward to the boss at the end, is it going to be a new one, one I've done and hated, or an easy one that will let me get that experience quicker? I don't care for it supposedly being more of a minigame than a skill, for not being as original as they said and for having a higher skill mastery. It is just so much fun to me.

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The first article didnt really latch on me.

 

The second one was a very good article, and as i've mentioned in my "First Impressions" in my blog, it is too self centered, plus the tokens required for some rewards exceed the lv requirements for a mile.

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Hi

 

I really liked the article about Dungeoneering skill/minigame.

 

I was quite amazed to discover that some players were outraged - personally i haven't had a change to try Dungeoneering yet, but when i read about it i didn't felt and urge to try it, because reading through the description, i too felt that it was basically just a minigame - so why bother !

 

I'm sure that i will try it (read: be forced to play it), because Jagex will probably change some of the requirements for quest to include a certain level in Dungeoneering in order to start !

 

But for me, that will be a bridge i'm waiting to cross until i get there.

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Reply to REflation: I do agree that the term you used was fitting (the author), but it's taken ~2 years; how can it be re-flation? (although time IS relative).

Reply to Second article: I love the new skill and applaud it for integrating all the other skills so well... The only downside is that getting solo gets boring after a while. Although, I love how it's supposed to be a group-based skill/activity, but you can still solo effectively.

Edit: I agree with Dv_Trainer


This feels exceptional on my under-carriage.

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First article:

Without all the drama from bots and credit card fraud issues, I guess we wouldn't have experienced this 'reflation', oh well...

 

 

 

 

Second article:

I dislike Dungeoneering for another reason not stated in the second article; the rewards system and the role of a Dungeoneer.

 

If you look at the mechanics, the skill is somewhat similar to Slayer when it was first implemented. It makes use of other skills, and unlocks a new content, and you train it in a very specific area (slayer dungeon & tower). Let us just assume that eventually, there might be smaller, but more dangerous and rewarding dungeons, as well as quests that have a Dungeoneering skill requirement to access. I'm fine with that, and I'm also stunned by the gameplay and graphics of all the new areas, bosses, and items. Sooner or later, 99% of the population would have realised that this skill is pretty much the same as Slayer, less boring than mining 10k coal ore, and accept it.

 

However, what role do Dungeoneers play in the end, compared to Slayers? Slayers provide new slayer equipment obtained to slaying beasts, allowing players without the levels to do so to access some new equipment. I slay, you pay me the gold, I give you the loot. There is a PURPOSE in being a slayer. Now look at a dungeoneer. You gain more levels and increase your access to more dungeons, but once out of Daemonhelm you aren't fulfilling a single role. 100% of the rewards are untradeable; you're not a supplier of anything.

 

If you say that the rewards should be untradeable because it would otherwise be unfair for players to just buy their way to a chaotic equipment, I can understand that. But what about some sort of small exhaustible resources to let you buy and sell to the market for gold? Special summoning beast pouches, short-term effect scrolls and new exotic potions aren't going to change the game much except filling some gap in the game. If you say that Agility doesn't give anything, remember that agility doesn't involve killing monsters either. When there's dungeons and monsters involved, you can be assured of rewards.

 

Lastly, the whole token system is what makes me think that this is an activity more than a skill. Can you imagine what Slayer would be like if you trade tokens for abyssal whips instead of getting them as monster loot? It just doesn't feel the same, and I personally don't see the need for this system. The EXP system is rather complicated, but it's there to ensure fairness in the game, as opposed to people fighting over doors and killing monsters to gain direct Dungeoneering EXP.

 

The second article addressed the short-term opinions of players regarding the skill, but seems to me that the long-term impact has been overlooked.


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"Do you really want to go back to the time when Falador was grey, lesser demon look like goats, dragons look like cows, hellhound look like cats and your character stands as stiff as a statue?"

 

-F1775

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[i am madly in love with dungeoneering. I like how it brings people from all walks of runescape, whether they be poor or rich, and sets them at the same level. It incorporates all of the skills, which i love, and forces (in a nice way) you to train them. Its just so....... YEAH!


Greecl: agreed, mister Eskimo steroid wrestler black guy thingy.

Lite191: =] lol

Greecl: this is going on my siggy on tippit.

lite191: actually im a ninja Eskimo wrestler on steroids with a godsword… on fire.

Greecl: eating a Klondike bar. =p

lite191: yes but it melted=[

Greecl: aw…wish you weren’t on fire now, huh?

lite191 :no.

lite191: Still freaking awesome.me

Greecl: or as Greecl would say… Frosted flakes are better!!!

lite191: agreed.

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Instead, it took an hour and thirty minutes and in this time – the players grew more and more angry. About 10 pages in the main thread, the entire community showed their evil side and trolled the thread – hard. ASCII images were spammed, rude messages left in Finnish and players left comments on the failure of Jagex.

 

Wait wut :mellow:

 

And that's the reaction you get with all those babies in game :woeh:


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Hi :)

 

I quite enjoyed the first article, it was a nice summary of the last couple of years in Runescape.

 

I can't say the same for the second article though. Firstly I just want to say: I love Dungeoneering. It's definitely my favourite update of the last 12 months. However, you've completely ignored the majority of Runescape players when you say it's unpopular; far from it. I spend a huge amount of time on the RSOF (I'm an FMod there) and although there have been many complaints about it, there have been hundreds less than with some of the other updates this year (Strykewyms and Constitution come to mind). Nearly everyone I know absolutely loves it, and the general feeling seems to be one of popularity, not rejection.

 

In case you needed more proof, the number of people playing Runescape at one time hit the 200k mark today for only the second time in the last year (the other time was during the Bonus XP weekend). This is because of the new skill.

 

I know many people say it's a minigame, and I can see why. However, I think I know what Jagex were thinking when they made it a skill instead. Runescape revolves around skilling; that is an undeniable fact. However, most skilling is just grinding; people nearly always choose the boring way to play instead of what is fun in the game (as highlighted in last week's Times. By making this a skill (and therefore a core piece of content) they're trying to change the focus of the game from boring grinding to more interesting ways of playing.

 

Also, it's far too big to be a minigame. No minigame compares to the size of Dungeoneering.

 

Plus, when you ask what can it offer the game, have you seen the rewards? Like Slayer it offers new weapons, as well as a whole load of other useful items. They're also releasing a new batch of rewards soon, as well as making the prices more realistic. I'd call this the most useful single skill in terms of helping train other skills, apart from perhaps Summoning.

 

And it completely baffles me when people call it repetitive; compare it to other skills, and it's one of the least repetitive and most varied in the game!

 

So I love it, and I am certain the people who hate it are in the minority ;)

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Second article missed the solo disconnect/need to go issue, probably the biggest concern for Dungeoneering being a skill.

 

It was also written too soon. It showed, too - the article misstated a lot of facts and intricacies that would be common knowledge a couple weeks from now.

 

It did hit one point right though. Let's not judge the skill until Dungeoneering 2 comes out.


2496 Completionist

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I love dungeoneering.

I think most people like it.

So I would strike that "most people dislike it" nonsense.


Exclusive Legacy Mode Player

 

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He just successfully trolled you with "courtesy" and managed to get a reaction out of you. Lol

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Instead, it took an hour and thirty minutes and in this time the players grew more and more angry. About 10 pages in the main thread, the entire community showed their evil side and trolled the thread hard. ASCII images were spammed, rude messages left in Finnish and players left comments on the failure of Jagex.

 

Wait wut :mellow:

 

 

Yeah. I've got a picture, but it's got some pretty harsh language so I'm not sure if I should post it.


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Second article: A couple thousand ranters on the forums doesn't make "the majority of the Runescape population" hate Dungeoneering. What a joke of an article.


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i cnt stand dungeoneering. one reason is if my friends arent on i cnt train it that well and i hate playing with random ppl bc they alwys end up being morons. also its just boring and if your gonna give out armour and weapons etc, make them more accessible. i will prob never do the skill again bc its just aweful


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ANAHEIM DUCKS

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As for the economy article, Jagex needs to do something to deflate prices and take gp out of the game, 'nuff said.

 

And for Dungeoneering, I'm not sure I would agree that all RS players "blatantly reject" it, but I do agree with some of the authors points about it being a tad disappointing.

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i cnt stand dungeoneering. one reason is if my friends arent on i cnt train it that well and i hate playing with random ppl bc they alwys end up being morons. also its just boring and if your gonna give out armour and weapons etc, make them more accessible. i will prob never do the skill again bc its just aweful

I cnt undrstnd ur stof bc iz lyke no vowles hmg wtf.

 

second article had a few errors, mainly regarding the 120 cap, its just dungeonerring, not all skills as the article implies.

 

first article is nothing new...


DK drops (solo/LS): 66 hatchets, 14 archer rings, 13 berserker rings, 17 warrior rings, 12 seerculls, 13 mud staves, 7 seers rings

QBD drops: 1 kite, 2 visages, 4 dragonbone kits, 3 effigies, lots of crossbow parts

CR vs. CLS threads always turn into discussions about penis size.
...
It's not called a Compensation Longsword for nothing.

I've sent a 12k combat mission to have Aiel assassinated (poor bastard isn't even Pincers-tier difficulty).

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i cnt stand dungeoneering. one reason is if my friends arent on i cnt train it that well and i hate playing with random ppl bc they alwys end up being morons. also its just boring and if your gonna give out armour and weapons etc, make them more accessible. i will prob never do the skill again bc its just aweful

I cnt undrstnd ur stof bc iz lyke no vowles hmg wtf.

 

second article had a few errors, mainly regarding the 120 cap, its just dungeonerring, not all skills as the article implies.

 

first article is nothing new...

 

I love how the majority of Dungeoneering haters don't even know how to properly construct a sentence. Definitely not a coincidence.


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I have to resent the way that the 2nd article purports to represent the entire Runescape community. The author can't possibly have any legitimate statistics to back up any of the statements in the article, especially those like "A large percentage of the RuneScapian population hate the skill this could mean people quitting, and a loss in money."

 

And what's worse is that he attempts to explain the viewpoint of a group he admits he doesn't belong to. Frankly, the information presented is just not true, and I'm offended at the suggestion that we all actively despise Dungeoneering for exactly three reasons, two of which are irrelevant and shallow and one of which is purely semantical. If you want to rant about RSOF trolls, then rant about RSOF trolls, but don't pretend like there are no legitimate criticisms of the update.

 

tl;dr Requiem's article is either a dishonest editorial or a factually incorrect news article. Two thumbs down. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

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2nd Article:

 

I agree that Dungeoneering is like Left4Dead (which I play a lot of).

You could describe both as:

A series of instanced events that works better with multiple people playing than by yourself. Since the situation is never exactly the same, you need a quick mind, quick reflexes, and a solid internet connection to be the most effective player who reacts appropriately to a sudden change.

 

As a matter of FACT, I suggested a minigame along the lines of Left 4 Dead about a year ago when I was playing it much more often. Of course, that was for a minigame. I think that Dungeoneering should be a minigame. When it was first announced on April 12, my first thought was that April Fools Day was 11 days ago, like several rants in RSOF.

 

Furthermore, I think that Summoning should have been the absolute last skill that required combat participation to level up effectively. I don't like how combat is becoming a functional part of other skills. The only way combat should be an integral part of a new skill would be for a new type of combat to arise, turning the triangle into a square.


I've never seen Sixth Sense nor Inception nor many other popular movies and I intend to keep it that way.

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The first article, well... I've never been all too knowledgeable as to how the economy works (due to sheer laziness, mind you), so... It was an interesting read, and fairly well written, though.

 

The second article, while there are some problems with how the writer put some things, it does raise a few points that Jagex will (hopefully) address sometime soon...

 

The sheer number of bugs in the skill so far - I'm sure a good number of us have encountered at least one of these, plus hearing about this... runecrafting bug that gave what, 10k xp per ess used? Even I'll admit that's a massive oversight on Jagex's part. I personally have encountered some type of key glitch where the last door and the only key left don't match, and very rarely I've encountered the 'examine nothing' glitch. Overall, I personally haven't seen that many within the dungeon itself, but I have been black/whitescreening quite a bit since the release. We have to think, though - dungeoneering is a very large and complex skill, so there's bound to be glitches and the like on release - saying nothing about Jagex's incompetence at times.

 

I personally am not bothered by the comparisons to WOW and other games with 'raiding' functions, mainly because I've never played them before... I can see the lines being drawn between them, though.

 

The 'level 120 = true skill mastery' thing somewhat bothers me in the fact that we stop getting... well, new floors to unlock at level 69 - meaning at that level our xp rate/hour probably, if I'm correct anyway, won't go up any further from that point forward. That's my concern, anyway - that the xp rate that we get at level 69 is supposed to carry us all the way to level 120 - I'm betting on Jagex releasing more floors with the next Dungeoneering batch, though.

 

The reward system, so far as I'm concerned, is completely broken. There is zero point in putting these level requirements on the items if it takes that + 40 more levelups just to get the points to buy the damn thing. Either they're going to lower the token req for most of the items (probably leaving the really powerful stuff with higher token reqs), or they're going to toss the system altogether, and allow us to get them in some other fashion - boss drops or something. Personally, I believe if they keep the system, make it so we can buy the object in question within 5/10 levels after unlocking it - that seems fairly balanced to me.

 

The addition of resuming solo dungeons would be a godsend to me, since I play mostly solo games to begin with. Plus, I have a tendency of dropping connection sometimes, although it hasn't booted me out of the dungeon yet.

 

These skill doors annoy the hell out of me, to be perfectly honest with you. The ones I can get through don't bother me, obviously, but the ones that need 100+ really aggravate me - it wouldn't bother me so much if I actually had time to find the herbs to make a potion to boost over the req and open the door, but almost every time, the herb either cannot be found on the floor, or the boost I need is far larger than any potion I can make. I've missed out on half the rooms on one floor because of one of these doors already... either make it so that the herbs are a more common drop (which still won't help the people with low herblore), or make the appearance of the doors with your skill level + 20 lower dramatically - I don't mind having to work a little and make a potion to open a door, but at least give me that chance, instead of screwing me over from the start.

 

It seems like the defence of every single creature in the dungeon is, well... ridiculously high. I understand that everything in there has a specific weakness, but even using a promethium spear with 95 attack, switching and trying all styles, it still doesn't quite cut it for a lot of things - I've encountered creatures that, considering what it is, and the amount of lp it should have, should only take me 10-20 seconds to kill, but it takes me twice that, since I constantly hit zeros, even if I keep switching styles until I find the (semi) correct one. Either this is perfectly normal, or I really suck at hitting things.

 

The accuracy of some creatures is also a bit... overly powerful. The shades that we encounter mostly in the ice floors, and a little bit later on are notoriously difficult to kill, just because they hit every single time. Praying magic cuts the damage down considerably, but it's still very powerful in comparison to other creatures you encounter on those floors. Again, either this is normal, or my defence sucks.

 

The items one gets from bosses on solo runs seem a lot on the... cheap side, if you ask me. I'm constantly getting tier 5 ish items, and rarely something higher - I've gotten maybe 1-2 promethium items, that's it. Hell, the last floor I cleared (floor... 16/17 or so), I got a novite full helm. I snickered a bit at that, but when it comes time for me to bind a second item, I don't know if I'll even encounter something I want to keep on a solo run.

 

 

Too long, didn't read - I personally love the Dungeoneering skill, although it has a ton of flaws in it right now. I believe that Jagex will attempt to fix the problems with it as it stands now, and release a second batch (hopefully including more floors to explore) that will hopefully make it more appealing to those who dislike it right now.


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I liked both, the first said before anything else that they weren't saying anything new so i don't know what you guys are so stressed out about, it was a nice summary, and i thought of a few ideas regarding the second and what some people have said,

 

- Dungeoneering being generally combat based but not providing people a way to make money like that is something i hadn't thought of, but its still in its infancy of course, that would be a good update when the skill is tweaked and ironed out next like summoning was.

 

- The author can't assume to know how we all feel, but you can't deny there was major criticism about this "skill". Hate is too strong a word though, because although its one of the greatest pieces of content recently, a new skill is the ultimate update and needs to be something so immense that it revolutionizes the game down to its very core, the next tier of weapons and a couple of handy trinkets are NOT worthy of a whole new skill, even less so than the weaker skills recently like hunter and construction (they managed to introduce new aspects to the game at least). I feel that people are more let-down by it than hateful of it, its a truly awesome game/activity but the sorriest excuse and release of a skill i've ever seen, and i'm a grumpy RS classic vet. Hey, it could always get better though.

 

- The only WoW rip-off is the way they're flaunting title page at the moment, "Runescape, Dungeons of Daemonheim" like it's a whole new expansion, I quite liked RS for not buying into stuff like that, but oh well. Anyway, raids or randomly generated dungeons whatever you want to called them aren't new, randomly generated gameplay was around long before RS and WoW were even being made. I'm sure everyone remembers worms, simple and fun but there were also more developed examples even back then. There was a game for the sega saturn called Virtual Hydlide that, whilst being uglier than the lovechild of general graardor a gluttonous behemoth, was a completely randomly generated game every time you played it, dunegon layouts, monsters, item locations, everything, and this was back in 1995.

 

- It may be a bit like left 4 dead but it reminds me more of classic. With all the different skills people can specialise in dungeoneering is pretty much the ultimate teamwork game, it really brings you back to when people were just starting out and had to focus on the basic things like making the best armour not just that they can wear, but that they can FIND. All other minigames either restrict or mess around with such fun and essential roles to the point where its a seperate reality to RS, this now is only contained in a dungeon, but it's player ingenuity and skill given free rein to accomplish the task of conquering the dungeon, its really just a smaller version of the game which relies on pure self-sufficency, something which many players have dreamed of experiencing (self-sufficency being something i pride myself on, my lowest stat being 66)

 

Also, runescape has evolved from pretty much just a world of combat, but i agree skills shouldn't need combat to be trained.

 

And having to leave shouldn't be a problem for anyone, since the annoying long process of actually getting out of the damn place ensures you get xp for the progress you made in the dungeon, which is quite a fair amount from what i've seen.

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Skillers don't have to be left out, y'know. Teams bring skillers with them since they are incapable of forging their own high level gear, and since it takes so long to gather resources and fight at the same time, a scavenger team member with runes for high alch and a harvesting kit (knife/hatchet/pick/tinderbox/hammer/fishingrodwithfeathers/farmingequips) can dedicate their time converting the useless resources and loot into gold just by following the trail of bloodshed and picking up everything that gets left behind. By the time the dungeon has been cleared, the scavenger will have enough gold to forge several suits of armor, ammunition, and perhaps food and potions should they require it and if herb drops are merciful. And all that fishing/cooking/wc/mining/smithing/crafting/rc/fletching/herblore gives a reasonable amount of exp.


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