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Tip.It Times - 27th June 2010


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#21
Mdeoxys
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Thanks for that article TS, it really gives the reader a good insight on how difficult it actually is to write a good original article.
What I always do when I'm bored is walking around crowded places in RuneScape, and just 'listen' to what people say to each other. Sometimes it quite interesting and fun to do, and you might even bump into a nice topic to write about.

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#22
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Why cite a screenshot that is known to be a fake?

#23
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(Refering to article on the boots) Rocky Situation

This is seriously the stupidest move Jagex has made since they removed pking, dueling, and capped trade.

The simplest move to prevent all of this from happening would have taken one more step, its sheep laziness and stupidity that caused this latest mess.

I'll try to explain.

This is what Jagex did.

1. Changed the name of climbing boots to Rock climbing boots.

2. Changed the GE price of rock climbing boots to 75k. (and alch/sell price)

3. Added a new item called Climbing boots, with no stats.

By doing this they changed all the existing items in players banks to the high priced, high alch item.

This is what they should have done.

1. Removed all stats from the Existing Item Climbing boots.

2. Added a new item, Rock Climbing Boots, with the previous stats, and higher price.

If they did this, all the items players had in their bank would remain LOW priced, and sure there would have been a few small complaints about their pking gear being worthless... but nothing near what happened now.

Jagex has lost its touch with the players of runescape. They know nothing of what is really happening within the game, and because of this, they can't fix any of the major problems.

75k for Climbing boots? rune boots are 100k, with better defensive values. Another solution would have been to make the shop price 10k-30k, and leave the GE price alone! The players would buy and sell and stabilize the price in the market, there is already a large number of boots in the community, so the price would probably stabilize around 1-2k, but over a period of time, not skyrocket to 75k overnight.

Rumors have it that some players who knew Jagex mods knew what the updates would be, which if a player had 300k of these boots I believe it, only because the only reason someone would stockpile so many of those boots, would be because they knew something. I only wish I bought me a few at 160GP :P 99 mage and billions of gp woo!

P.S. They should fire whoever came up with this Idea and put me in charge of researching the effects updates will have on the economy :D Cause its clear they have no one doing that job now.

P.S. To the person that said rollbacks take a huge amount of effort. No, all a rollback is would be to restore the game to a state before the update, and any programmer knows to save before adding something, to protect against problems the update might create. If they did their job and caught the problem on the day it happened, a few hours after the update, then they could easily have rolledback. But as I see it, they must have been late to discover the problem, and even rolling back 12 hours could result in many skillers and monster fighting and pvpers losing millions in profits, drops, and exp. So that is why they did not do a rollback.
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#24
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Article 1:

I agree with your basic principles on this matter, but I think you missed the real problems. Yes a lot of people got rich, and that's not necessarily "fair", but that is by no means the biggest problem. A friend of mine condensed the issues (as he saw them) into 3 very neat points, quoted below.

"1) It brought a fairly large amount of gold into the game, which will have at least some effect on the economy.

2) Nobody aside from really desperate people who pay an extreme opportunity cost by not wanting to hop worlds to a non-PvP world for the GE actually paid 75k for climbing boots. Therefore, this entire update was based on wrong information and therefore Jagex looks completely idiotic for refusing to make any changes to fix it.

3) It ruined the worth of climbing boots. For all purposes they were previously used for, they are now worthless. Because of the high shop price, they are no longer cheap throwaway gear, so welfare questers and PKers won't use them. Also, their 45k death price means they may actually protect over something more desirable (like a ****ing Fire Cape), so they're no longer good for using at Corporeal Beast or any other activity where you stand a decent chance of dying.

All-in-all, aside from the people who gained tens/hundreds of millions in gold overnight, this update benefits nobody and was completely worthless. Whomever thought it up needs to be re-assigned to Customer Support."

My own take on this:
To refute the arguments of some players stating that point number 1) as shown here is irrelevant. There need not be an overall 10% shift in the RS economy, since the climbing boot changes should theoretically only affect p2p items. As a result, this could quite easily see dragon bones rocket AGAIN to even more ridiculous prices, along with countless other member items. For this update to significantly affect p2p prices (at least on a short-term basis) would take far fewer than the 10m+ boots speculated at by another person on this forum.

2) As stated, 75k is ridiculously optimistic as a price margin for sales. With the 60k price restriction and previous G.E. prices of around 200gp per pair, 75k would have required junk trading for the boots. That is a ridiculous premise and I believe can almost be categorically denied as a regular occurance. While it was easy to buy the boots for 12gp and shift them for 200gp approx, notching up roughly 5.2k profit per inventory, I have never seen anything to suggest that Jagex's re-pricing is an accurate reflection of real market value.

3) Can't really elaborate on what was said above. Climbing boots are now virtually useless to all but the most ardent pures.


Article 2:

An enjoyable and accurate read. Even in the two short "letters to the editor" that I've submitted over the years, I've found myself often wandering away from the initial topic. Indeed several have been scrapped because I just couldn't make it a compelling enough read. We do understand your pain and in a way I guess this was an excellent article with which to remind the more vociferous critics to cut you some slack every once in a while! :P

#25
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Oh I don't need to be cut some slack...

I've held my own all these years and I'll probably continue to do so for years to come...

But people mostly speak out when they disagree with something, instead of when they like an article...
Not only do we want to know whats wrong, but also whats right :)

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#26
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Oh I don't need to be cut some slack...

I've held my own all these years and I'll probably continue to do so for years to come...

But people mostly speak out when they disagree with something, instead of when they like an article...
Not only do we want to know whats wrong, but also whats right :)


I for one appreciate the work you put into your articles. Their part of the reason i got into using this site instead of runehq or another one.

#27
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Oh I don't need to be cut some slack...

I've held my own all these years and I'll probably continue to do so for years to come...

But people mostly speak out when they disagree with something, instead of when they like an article...
Not only do we want to know whats wrong, but also whats right :)


Haha of course, the indomitable Ts_Stormrage needs no slack, I was trying to make more of the point you made that it's nice to be told what's right too! But you got my point anyway.

Also as another point for article 1:

The Varrock Sword Shop recently got a monkey trader from whom Dragon Scimitars could be purchased. Why? Because nobody could be bothered with going to ape atoll to buy one and therefore they could not be purchased on G.E. This simply was not the case with boots, for which there was a comparatively steady supply. Even so, surely if climbing boot prices were so far off it would have been a simple matter to add a nepalese trader (:P) to the Varrock Armour Shop selling the boots?! Guaranteed that would have been met with much more favourable reviews than the current farce Jagex have created.

#28
Ts_Stormrage
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Well thanks :) (wuts indomitable?)

Just remember, there are other writers out there too who do need to be cut some slack (some of em are new on the job), and rather then full blown criticism, try 'steering' them with advice...

...


BTW... I figured, having covered inflation issues on NUMEROUS occasions, I should be able to comment on this rocky issue too...

Fact: A one time money shot in the economy is absolutely incomparable to the continuous influx of GP that happens on a daily basis...
Let's compare it to a recent event. What happened with the Rock Climbing Boots sudden increase in (alch)value in ratio to the influx of money through PVP Statues is like an oil spill... Only the Rock Climbing Boots can be compared to an oil tanker flipping over, while the PVP money generated is like BP's current oil spill... One drops a lot in a single day, the other dorps less but adds to it day after day after day... You get the picture...

Fact: The change may have been needed, I agree that certain stats should have some value... But the current alch value is too high though, compared to the Rune and Dragon counter parts. If its had been lower, somewhere around 5k, noone would care...

FACT: If jagex is going to reprise items, all they need to do is relex or even remove price ROOFS... I understand price bottoms, they are in place to protect noobs form buying stuff below its alch value... But take Swordfish for example... If it were not for the recent drop in price since last week, one could argue that it needed repricing too...

Conclusion: Some items are bought in the shop for a reason; they are either too cheap NOT to, or its the only way to get more of em... In the former case, you only need to adjust the price and/or supply of said item along with relaxing price roofs...
Jagex fumbled on handling this, but the overall result now means that climbing boots wont be in circulation anymore, and people will switch to adamant or rune boots instead...

And funny enough, thats the end of that whole panic (srsly ppl, get over it)...

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
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Check us out!
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==> No seriously, if you like FREE GP, XP and Dung tokens, as well as Community, Opportunity and above all FUN... <==
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#29
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First article was boring from my view. It just explains to those who don't know, what most of us knows: The climbing boots problem. The focus should have been on a apology from Jagex. People bought climbing boots for the cheap cost, PK-ers/Boss hunters. Jagex gave a reason that many players supposedly paid high price for climbing boots, and that's why they raised the price from 212 gp to 75,000!

They made a impact on Runescape economy, gave players unfair amount of cash and ruined the holy item known as climbing boots.

Developers who disturb the balance of a game should be suspended.

#30
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Your adamant on getting them suspended lol. I would say they are probably laughing over people flipping out over the economy after they witnessed the economy survive the 26k tricking and 76k tricking and all that stuff before it was some what fixed. Yes the economy is inflated to some point but I would rather it be inflated than be in a depression. I remember the day construction was released and my items almost became worth nothing. People were selling rares dirt cheap and everything was tanking for the race to get 99 construction.

I don't want to worry about my items falling so why not deal with all this supposed inflation and let jagex jack with the economy. I don't like it, but I understand in life the head hauncho will do what they want to do and not what the people what them to do. They are in this business for the real life gp so they will look past the little complaints such as this and focus on getting more customers and not keeping the ones who criticize trivial things.

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#31
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Also a viable solution to the problem would have been to rollback immediately, however that is obviously not viable now. And, once the money is in the game, the damage has been done. There was a window of opportunity for Jagex to reverse this but that went past very quickly.



why on earth would Jagex want to roll-back on a designed effect. They wanted the climbing boots to have a higher alch value than d and rune boots. They weren't worried about the amount of cash entering the game.

The only thing they would like to rollback is the overreaction of some and that cannot be done anyway. Because you have a personal problem with an update it doesn't mean the update didn't do what it was meant to do. For Jagex this update was probably successful were it not for the fact that people blew up. Which they probably didn't see coming because they know a little bit more about the runecape economy than we do. They weren't worried about the big picture. They just underestimated the gut reaction and jealousy of many.

How can you predict irrational thought? Well, it is really difficult. They probably would need a dedicated team of psychologists to just get a hint of what may set the community off.

When I heard first about the update I thought nothing of it, and that actually hasn't changed. But for some it is apparently really a difficult thing to process the fact that some people might have gotten rich over an update. And then the speculation started on inflation and some people saw an opportunity here.

---

No honestly, there was no rollback possible because there was no error or mistake in the design of the update. There was just a miscalculation of the human element, part of the community overreacted. And nobody can rollback a human mind.


#32
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Your adamant on getting them suspended lol. I would say they are probably laughing over people flipping out over the economy after they witnessed the economy survive the 26k tricking and 76k tricking and all that stuff before it was some what fixed. Yes the economy is inflated to some point but I would rather it be inflated than be in a depression. I remember the day construction was released and my items almost became worth nothing. People were selling rares dirt cheap and everything was tanking for the race to get 99 construction.

I don't want to worry about my items falling so why not deal with all this supposed inflation and let jagex jack with the economy. I don't like it, but I understand in life the head hauncho will do what they want to do and not what the people what them to do. They are in this business for the real life gp so they will look past the little complaints such as this and focus on getting more customers and not keeping the ones who criticize trivial things.

A apology should do it then.

#33
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Also a viable solution to the problem would have been to rollback immediately, however that is obviously not viable now. And, once the money is in the game, the damage has been done. There was a window of opportunity for Jagex to reverse this but that went past very quickly.



why on earth would Jagex want to roll-back on a designed effect. They wanted the climbing boots to have a higher alch value than d and rune boots. They weren't worried about the amount of cash entering the game.

The only thing they would like to rollback is the overreaction of some and that cannot be done anyway. Because you have a personal problem with an update it doesn't mean the update didn't do what it was meant to do. For Jagex this update was probably successful were it not for the fact that people blew up. Which they probably didn't see coming because they know a little bit more about the runecape economy than we do. They weren't worried about the big picture. They just underestimated the gut reaction and jealousy of many.

How can you predict irrational thought? Well, it is really difficult. They probably would need a dedicated team of psychologists to just get a hint of what may set the community off.

When I heard first about the update I thought nothing of it, and that actually hasn't changed. But for some it is apparently really a difficult thing to process the fact that some people might have gotten rich over an update. And then the speculation started on inflation and some people saw an opportunity here.

---

No honestly, there was no rollback possible because there was no error or mistake in the design of the update. There was just a miscalculation of the human element, part of the community overreacted. And nobody can rollback a human mind.

I know this is all speculative writing on the part of every poster on this article, but how do you know that Jagex really achieved what they were intending with this? Personally I find that it is all too easy these days to believe that Jagex simply did not intend the end result because they did not do sufficient research. There was no reason to make THIS change, that is the problem. 75k, or even 45k for the alchs, is a completely unreasonable price considering the ACTUAL market that existed for the boots. That is my problem with this update. It hasn't made or lost me any money at all, I just dislike the "If it isn't broken, we're not trying hard enough" approach that Jagex seem to be implementing at the moment. Nobody cared that climbing boots could achieve a 1700% price hike from Sherpa to G.E., that was the way the economy for those boots had functioned for years. To waste developer time on a fix that didn't need to happen makes me wonder exactly what Jagex were thinking.

What exactly is irrational about the logic laid out in my previous post? If you can explain that, I may perhaps understand your point, but at present I can't help but be a little suspicious that perhaps you did very nicely out of the recent update and therefore are keen to defend it.

#34
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I refuse to read Racheya's articles for various literary reasons.

2nd one was a nice personal piece.

BTW: I have an idea for a Times piece I'd like to write. Who do I get in touch with?

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#35
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I refuse to read Racheya's articles for various literary reasons.

2nd one was a nice personal piece.

BTW: I have an idea for a Times piece I'd like to write. Who do I get in touch with?


write it, pm it to Racheya. That's how i've gotten two publications.

Second article: my articles have both been composed in a single sitting, without reading them through in their entirety or major changes. We all write differently, and your experience is certainly very different from mine Ts.

#36
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Just as tortilliachp said, PM any articles to me and they may end up in the Times :)

Also: I refuse to read Racheya's articles for various literary reasons, is not really going to help me, or anybody improve their writing. If you have constructive criticism then please say it.


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#37
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I refuse to read Racheya's articles for various literary reasons.

2nd one was a nice personal piece.

BTW: I have an idea for a Times piece I'd like to write. Who do I get in touch with?


I personally saw nothing in the article to criticize her writing skills.

#38
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I refuse to read Racheya's articles for various literary reasons.

2nd one was a nice personal piece.

BTW: I have an idea for a Times piece I'd like to write. Who do I get in touch with?


I personally saw nothing in the article to criticize her writing skills.

It's her style, and the arguments she uses. Its just personal mainly.

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#39
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I refuse to read Racheya's articles for various literary reasons.

2nd one was a nice personal piece.

BTW: I have an idea for a Times piece I'd like to write. Who do I get in touch with?


I personally saw nothing in the article to criticize her writing skills.

It's her style, and the arguments she uses. Its just personal mainly.


So you criticise someone then don't give reasons as to why so they can fix it.
Right.

Can't wait to see your article, should you send it in. To send one in, just contact any Times Members.

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#40
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I refuse to read Racheya's articles for various literary reasons.

2nd one was a nice personal piece.

BTW: I have an idea for a Times piece I'd like to write. Who do I get in touch with?


I personally saw nothing in the article to criticize her writing skills.

It's her style, and the arguments she uses. Its just personal mainly.


So you criticise someone then don't give reasons as to why so they can fix it.
Right.

Can't wait to see your article, should you send it in. To send one in, just contact any Times Members.


I don't care for the writing style of many people. Nothing personal.

Requiem, a writing style isn't something which a person should always want, or needs to be changed. It varies from person to person. I dislike some styles which you may like, and my own may be one of them. However, I am entitled to say I don't like an individuals, just as I would be fine with someone saying they dislike mine. Racheya overstates the (very) obvious, and I just am not looking for that kind of read. Some people may need it to help them understand what went on, however.

In fact, I just read it so I could point out why I dislike her style.

1.) WAY, way way too many assumptions, including the assumption that this will damage the market, and that the market doesn't need extra GP, neither claim was substantiated.

2.) Stating that this will damage Jagex's integrity. Why? How? Jagex gave out statistics. Whether or not those can be believed, or are accurate is one matter to consider. However, this wasn't mentioned.

3.) The writing style isn't clear. It just doesn't seem to flow well.

4.) I disagree that this was necessarily "unfair". With prior notice it would be, but otherwise I see this as a lucky break, just as I would say a friend selling me an elysian for market was a "lucky" break for me.

5.) Expecting Jagex to do a full rollback, and then building the majority of your article's focus on that single fix shows a lack of understanding of the seriousness of a rollback, and one's repercussions.

6.) What is the point of talking about the void knight quest in the beginning of the article? That would be similar to my writing a paper on oil, but including in the introduction a plane crash in the Amazon. Unless this plane crash later ties in to my article, it is "filler", something one might try to use in order to fill a quota, (Page numbers, or word count) but which shouldn't be included.

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