Mosque at Ground Zero

[Harakiri]

I still have to complain, why aren't these people, these patriots against the cultural center, standing outside with bad things to say about Muslims, not outside ground zero, complaining that we don't have a freaking memorial to the people who died?

 

Because they're so fixated on their hatred that they don't know that there actually IS a memorial being erected inside of this "mosque," and there's a place for people of all faiths to worship there.

 

The people obsessing about Muslims "celebrating" just want a culture war, which is exactly what bin Laden wants. The neo-cons have been beating this drum forever. Count me out of your wars, I'm tired of it. When we bomb Iran, and there's a lot of evidence pointing to the fact that either we or Israel will, they will use this as an example of why we should do it. And if Israel does it without us, we still would have given them the green light.

 

FOX trying to bring in Iran out of nowhere..as usual.

 

Never mind the fact that Iran is one of the few nations--both Western and Middle Eastern--that commemorated 9/11 and had candle light vigils.

 

OK, I never heard that a memorial would be inside the culture center. Thanks for that.

 

And let me say that despite the fact I am a conservative and FOX is a conservative news channel, I think that most of them are idiots and wouldn't know proper journalism if it hit them in the face. I just watch the nightly world news anymore, because it's just reading the headlines, minus all the idiotic debates and all the stupid guests.

 

As I said before, I can respect my differences with conservatives--whatever that word means anymore--just not with Republicans or Fox News Zombies (which more or less describes the Tea Party and current Republican party).

 

And let's just talk about offensive for a second while we're on the note of Fox News. Why isn't there mass outcry over Glenn Beck speaking where MLK gave his I Have a Dream speech on the anniversary? Talk about offensive, that's as offensive as you can get. The theme of the rally is 'restoring honor,' which can only be interpreted as a call to get the half-black man out of the White House. Jim Crow technically ended forty-five years ago, and no one wants to harp on the injustices of the past. But we have a right to use the anniversary of the I Have a Dream speech to look back and remember the way things were and what it took to change them.

 

Instead, we are treated to a Glenn Beck rally at the site of the great speech that will be headlined by Sarah Palin. Sarah Palin recently defended a radio shock jock's repeated use of the word 'ni66er' by saying she shouldn't apologize but 'reload.'

 

Sarah Palin is a complete idiot.

Glenn Beck, I'll just give my opinion, is a crazy guy. But he does have some really good ideas, a lot of his ideas are convoluted and such, but they are very good. He did have one of MLK's family members on the show a couple days ago. I can't say what happened about it, but I don't think too many people disapprove. I personally know one of my teachers is going to his speech.

Some of the people who disapprove though did send death threats to Beck.

More in the news: A drunk goes into a Mosque, yells slurs and pees on the rug. A man gets in a NY taxi, asks the driver if he's Muslim, the driver replies "yes", and is viciously stabbed.

 

9/11 is coming, and I think something big's about to happen. Something really big.

 

America is going downhill faster than you can see.

 

Glen Beck is the antichrist! Don't listen to him lest you follow him to hell! The Muslim's vs. Christians will escalate and Jesus will appear in the middle east to start the rapture! IT'S ARMAGEDDON!

[Dupin]

9/11 is coming, and I think something big's about to happen. Something really big.

 

Wtf. Everything has always been like this. Any terrorist would have to be an idiot to attack right now, seeing as there is so much focus on whether or not being a Muslim makes you terrorist and we are in the process of withdrawing troops from the Middle East.

[ember3579]

Well, part of their entire recruitment drive is that if they die for their cause, they go to heaven with a harem waiting for them, so anything's on the table. Yeah, the chances that one of these idiots will get ANYTHING shot off is somewhere in the range of very little to Wile E. Coyote getting the roadrunner. That don't mean that these guys won't try something. Keep on your toes.

 

Yes, there is a chance that the Community Center is going to be used by the people who made it as a "Ha Ha Screw You America!!!" monument. However, there's also a chance that any new Wal-Mart will use illegal immigrants for employees. There's also a chance that the newest church in town is going to be a Neo-Nazi boot camp. There is a chance for anything on this planet to be used for bad things. Do we watch for them? Sure, that's called being smart. Do we stop something on a "maybe"? Not only is that entirely un-American (innocent until proven guilty is pretty baseline, here), but it gives the people we're trying to fight just more ammunition to use to recruit people (IE: "Hey look, these American bastards want war on all Islam! We need to fight back before they kill us all!"). Do we REALLY want to alienate the second-largest religion on the planet for what amounts to [cabbage]?

[Saru Inc]

Aaaaaah so many liberals on this forum :0

 

I heard that there was an unknown source of funding for the mosque, though I haven't really cared enough about the issue to look into it. Can anyone who's investigated it thoroughly (besides magekillr) tell me wassup with that?

 

Yeah, can't have my biased articles from MSNBC, CNN, NYT, or the Washington Post tread your lovely Fox News Obama is a socialist commie mantra now can you, Reb?

 

The true question is, who is funding the anti-mosque rhetoric with that recent rally? The answer is war-monger and neo-con Islamophobe Frank Gaffney.

 

 

Why must your world be composed of such extremes? Why can't someone be only slightly against what you believe? You'll quote this post defending yourself saying that you do agree with people who are only slightly opposed; but that all of us here are just not those kind of people. To say the world is a world of extremes, and it's either your way or the exact opposite is in my opinion not the brightest ideology in the power plant of your brain. You'll say that you get along perfectly fine with conservatives, but you don't mean that,(or you may post trying to catch me off guard admitting you hate all conservatives, only you know.) you hate everyone who is unlike yourself, then masquerade it amongst a facade of forced open mindedness. That you're intolerant of intolerance, but we all know that you're just intolerant of things that you don't believe in. If you were born to a different family you may just be the homophobic racist rednecks you hate so much, and I'm not saying, nor implying you're deep down a bad person or anything. But you're the person who is simply unwilling to change their ways, and that is just as unhealthy and detrimental to society as homophobic racists. And this whole spiel (to put it lightly) that you are the crusader of intelligence, and as ALG posted, unashamed hypocrisy is just ludicrous. It can only go so far Magekillr, I may be making jokes and sarcasm and "trolling" in the vast majority of posts, but at least I know common sense when I see it.

[Harakiri]

9/11 is coming, and I think something big's about to happen. Something really big.

 

Wtf. Everything has always been like this. Any terrorist would have to be an idiot to attack right now, seeing as there is so much focus on whether or not being a Muslim makes you terrorist and we are in the process of withdrawing troops from the Middle East.

 

What do they care? If they attack right now they are going to continue the anti-Muslim sentiments that bin Laden wants, and the culture war heats up. Why would the terrorists care if all Muslims are considered terrorists when that just makes scare tactics even better. When you can't trust the Muslims within American society, society tends to get screwy, opening chasms.

 

And you can't tell me that there will be no repercussions for the anti-Muslim sentiments going on. As said, people are being racist, people are trying to kill Muslims, people are wanting to burn the Koran come 9/11. This is only making the situation worse and showing everyone else in the world that America is pretty much at the same level of the people they consider heathens, killers, and use religion as a means to kill.

[Obtaurian]

Hi.

 

Is there a law that prohibits religious community centers from being built in major cities near places of importance?

 

No?

 

Then what the [bleep] is the problem? No one would've raised an eyebrow if it was a Catholic or Christian community center. Paint it whichever way you like, but taking up issue with this community center because it's a MUSLIM community center says something about you, not the community center.

 

Unless someone can prove to me that this center cannot be built near the site of 9/11 because of a LAW preventing it from being so, my opinion stands. This could be, like, the ONE time we actually come through as a secular nation; don't ruin it.

[OldJoe]

Hi.

 

Is there a law that prohibits religious community centers from being built in major cities near places of importance?

 

No?

 

Then what the [bleep] is the problem? No one would've raised an eyebrow if it was a Catholic or Christian community center. Paint it whichever way you like, but taking up issue with this community center because it's a MUSLIM community center says something about you, not the community center.

 

Unless someone can prove to me that this center cannot be built near the site of 9/11 because of a LAW preventing it from being so, my opinion stands. This could be, like, the ONE time we actually come through as a secular nation; don't ruin it.

Because it wasn't Christians who committed the terrorist attack.

And what does it say about me? Please don't come dragging with some old crap like xenophobia.

[Myweponsg00d]

There should not be a mosque anywhere in the world, nor should there be a church or a temple etc.

 

Religion is the worst thing to happen to the human race and the world would be a lot more peaceful if so many people did not illogically cliing to delusions of such a profound nature.

 

If I told somebody that I asked my garden gnome for a promotion and he gave it to me, I would be put under psychiatric watch. If I tell somebody that I asked god to watch over me on the drive home, they would say "omg yea god is so great, amen. ill pray for ya too!!!"

 

A delusion shared by many people does not make that delusion any more acceptable.

[Giordano]

Hi.

 

Is there a law that prohibits religious community centers from being built in major cities near places of importance?

 

No?

 

Then what the [bleep] is the problem? No one would've raised an eyebrow if it was a Catholic or Christian community center. Paint it whichever way you like, but taking up issue with this community center because it's a MUSLIM community center says something about you, not the community center.

 

Unless someone can prove to me that this center cannot be built near the site of 9/11 because of a LAW preventing it from being so, my opinion stands. This could be, like, the ONE time we actually come through as a secular nation; don't ruin it.

Because it wasn't Christians who committed the terrorist attack.

And what does it say about me? Please don't come dragging with some old crap like xenophobia.

Because ultimately it is xenophobia. Not including it in the discussion doesn't make anybody less or more xenophobic. People always say "Don't bring X in here" because it would destroy their case.

[OldJoe]

Hi.

 

Is there a law that prohibits religious community centers from being built in major cities near places of importance?

 

No?

 

Then what the [bleep] is the problem? No one would've raised an eyebrow if it was a Catholic or Christian community center. Paint it whichever way you like, but taking up issue with this community center because it's a MUSLIM community center says something about you, not the community center.

 

Unless someone can prove to me that this center cannot be built near the site of 9/11 because of a LAW preventing it from being so, my opinion stands. This could be, like, the ONE time we actually come through as a secular nation; don't ruin it.

Because it wasn't Christians who committed the terrorist attack.

And what does it say about me? Please don't come dragging with some old crap like xenophobia.

Because ultimately it is xenophobia. Not including it in the discussion doesn't make anybody less or more xenophobic. People always say "Don't bring X in here" because it would destroy their case.

Eh no, it's not "fear of the unknown" which makes me have a different opinion than most in this case.

[Harakiri]

There should not be a mosque anywhere in the world, nor should there be a church or a temple etc.

 

Religion is the worst thing to happen to the human race and the world would be a lot more peaceful if so many people did not illogically cliing to delusions of such a profound nature.

 

If I told somebody that I asked my garden gnome for a promotion and he gave it to me, I would be put under psychiatric watch. If I tell somebody that I asked god to watch over me on the drive home, they would say "omg yea god is so great, amen. ill pray for ya too!!!"

 

A delusion shared by many people does not make that delusion any more acceptable.

 

I can't agree with this at all. Religion tied together ancient communities and was what tied the hunter-gatherers together to create actual peoples. Without religion the world would not be as it is and people wouldn't be as unified as they were and are. Despite the fact religion is a reason for war and a reason for fighting, it is still something that built this world to what it is. It still lingers, and despite the fact it is something that unifies one people, other people's hate the others. I have no problem with religion whatsoever as long as people don't use it as a means to fight and don't shove it in my face and tell me to accept a God. Gods, in my opinion, are not a being as much as an ideal, that ideal being the fear of the unknown. You aren't praying to a nonexistent entity as much as you are making yourself feel better about the fact that we don't know a lot of things and most people find that religion can fill that gap and keep their brains away from it. And I think that that is perfectly fine. If it gets you to sleep at night, then I don't care. I'm not intolerant of any religion just because I find Gods to be ideals and I find most religious texts to be lessons to live by. At least, Christianity I feel that way. The Koran, if it were updated, would not produce such radicals as it does. But as it stands, it still has good lessons and Muslims are good when it comes to charity and helping the poor. But otherwise women are treated poorly and everything about being a martyr needs to be updated.

[Troacctid]

Hi.

 

Is there a law that prohibits religious community centers from being built in major cities near places of importance?

 

No?

 

Then what the [bleep] is the problem? No one would've raised an eyebrow if it was a Catholic or Christian community center. Paint it whichever way you like, but taking up issue with this community center because it's a MUSLIM community center says something about you, not the community center.

 

Unless someone can prove to me that this center cannot be built near the site of 9/11 because of a LAW preventing it from being so, my opinion stands. This could be, like, the ONE time we actually come through as a secular nation; don't ruin it.

Because it wasn't Christians who committed the terrorist attack.

And what does it say about me? Please don't come dragging with some old crap like xenophobia.

But now you are implying that Islam is some monolithic entity where all Muslims share guilt for the acts of a few. Sorry, but that is Islamophobia.

[Nenga]

Hi.

 

Is there a law that prohibits religious community centers from being built in major cities near places of importance?

 

No?

 

Then what the [bleep] is the problem? No one would've raised an eyebrow if it was a Catholic or Christian community center. Paint it whichever way you like, but taking up issue with this community center because it's a MUSLIM community center says something about you, not the community center.

 

Unless someone can prove to me that this center cannot be built near the site of 9/11 because of a LAW preventing it from being so, my opinion stands. This could be, like, the ONE time we actually come through as a secular nation; don't ruin it.

Because it wasn't Christians who committed the terrorist attack.

And what does it say about me? Please don't come dragging with some old crap like xenophobia.

But now you are implying that Islam is some monolithic entity where all Muslims share guilt for the acts of a few. Sorry, but that is Islamophobia.

You need to put it in a way they can understand.

 

Say a Christan said he killed a person in the name of god. You'd say he was nuts.

Now a Muslim says he killed a person in the name of Allah, and suddenly every Muslim is a murderer.

[OldJoe]

Haha, too funny.

I have never said that i believe every muslim is a murderer nor would i think that about christianity if the same would happen. I don't know why these assumptions are made.

I've already said what i think about this, and my answer is a few pages back; I don't think it's very fitting to build it so close to where it happened.

[Nenga]

I said They, as in a few people. I wasn't specifically targeting you.

[Troacctid]

Haha, too funny.

I have never said that i believe every muslim is a murderer nor would i think that about christianity if the same would happen. I don't know why these assumptions are made.

I've already said what i think about this, and my answer is a few pages back; I don't think it's very fitting to build it so close to where it happened.

You didn't "say" all Muslims bear guilt for 9/11 because it's an implicit assumption at the basis of your argument.

[Alg]

I have never said that i believe every muslim is a murderer nor would i think that about christianity if the same would happen. I don't know why these assumptions are made.

For the sake of having an enemy I think. The average American, if he isn't Christian himself probably counts a few among his friends, and unless he hates everything related to religion, knows that if a Christian group did the same they don't represent the whole. I'd assume it's different for Islam. Could assume that the average American doesn't know many Muslims personally, but he is going to see everything in post-9/11 pop culture saying they're evil.

[OldJoe]

Haha, too funny.

I have never said that i believe every muslim is a murderer nor would i think that about christianity if the same would happen. I don't know why these assumptions are made.

I've already said what i think about this, and my answer is a few pages back; I don't think it's very fitting to build it so close to where it happened.

You didn't "say" all Muslims bear guilt for 9/11 because it's an implicit assumption at the basis of your argument.

I like the way you interpret my posts. I have no underlying meaning with my posts. If you interpret it like that, that's up to you, but it's not what i'm saying.

[Troacctid]

Haha, too funny.

I have never said that i believe every muslim is a murderer nor would i think that about christianity if the same would happen. I don't know why these assumptions are made.

I've already said what i think about this, and my answer is a few pages back; I don't think it's very fitting to build it so close to where it happened.

You didn't "say" all Muslims bear guilt for 9/11 because it's an implicit assumption at the basis of your argument.

I like the way you interpret my posts. I have no underlying meaning with my posts. If you interpret it like that, that's up to you, but it's not what i'm saying.

Then why isn't it "fitting to build it so close to where it happened"? If you accept that the 9/11 attack has nothing at all to do with ordinary Muslims (except the ones who lost friends or family in the attack of course), then you should have no basis on which to even care at all whether a mosque or anything is built near 9/11, unless you oppose all non-memorial buildings in the area or something.

[Johannas]

It's utter disrespect, for a religion that prides themselves on peace and harmony that's certainly not what the Qu'ran portrays.

There are over 150 accounts of horrific violence in the book yet it seems to be completely overlooked by anyone that studies it.

 

I'm not against Islam, I just think that i have to agree with Hassan Yousef when he says that Islam is based around violence and terror, which is something i don't think anyone should be associated with. (watch interviews of him on youtube)

 

This is purely my interpretation, but i don't feel wrong or biased by what i say.

 

To put a long story short, i think a basic analogy shall suffice...

 

It's like the murderers of your family moving into to the house opposite you.

[Dupin]

It's utter disrespect, for a religion that prides themselves on peace and harmony that's certainly not what the Qu'ran portrays.

There are over 150 accounts of horrific violence in the book yet it seems to be completely overlooked by anyone that studies it.

 

I'm not against Islam, I just think that i have to agree with Hassan Yousef when he says that Islam is based around violence and terror, which is something i don't think anyone should be associated with. (watch interviews of him on youtube)

 

This is purely my interpretation, but i don't feel wrong or biased by what i say.

 

To put a long story short, i think a basic analogy shall suffice...

 

It's like the murderers of your family moving into to the house opposite you.

150? That's nothing. Go read the Old Testament.

[Harakiri]

It's utter disrespect, for a religion that prides themselves on peace and harmony that's certainly not what the Qu'ran portrays.

There are over 150 accounts of horrific violence in the book yet it seems to be completely overlooked by anyone that studies it.

 

I'm not against Islam, I just think that i have to agree with Hassan Yousef when he says that Islam is based around violence and terror, which is something i don't think anyone should be associated with. (watch interviews of him on youtube)

 

This is purely my interpretation, but i don't feel wrong or biased by what i say.

 

To put a long story short, i think a basic analogy shall suffice...

 

It's like the murderers of your family moving into to the house opposite you.

150? That's nothing. Go read the Old Testament.

:thumbup:

[Nenga]

It's utter disrespect, for a religion that prides themselves on peace and harmony that's certainly not what the Qu'ran portrays.

There are over 150 accounts of horrific violence in the book yet it seems to be completely overlooked by anyone that studies it.

 

I'm not against Islam, I just think that i have to agree with Hassan Yousef when he says that Islam is based around violence and terror, which is something i don't think anyone should be associated with. (watch interviews of him on youtube)

 

This is purely my interpretation, but i don't feel wrong or biased by what i say.

 

To put a long story short, i think a basic analogy shall suffice...

 

It's like the murderers of your family moving into to the house opposite you.

No, no it's not.

 

In that situation the people who did murder your family live close by.

 

In the current situation, these people did not murder anyone, yet they once met the people who did murder your family, years ago, and are treated like they murdered your family.

 

Religion it's self is based around violence, it has been in every recorded religion we know of. You can't just name something to prove your point, and leave out the other side does the exact same thing.

[Alg]

In that situation the people who did murder your family live close by.

 

In the current situation, these people did not murder anyone, yet they once met the people who did murder your family, years ago, and are treated like they murdered your family.

Not even that. The people who moved in are only loosely related to the people that may or may not have known the murderers years ago.

It's kind of like saying that every Christian is a Crusader. Or that every German is a Nazi. Or that every Atheist is a Stalinist. And so on, feel free to add your own offensive comparisons.

None of them are, and with any other target you'd deserve the punch in the face that someone will undoubtedly give you. And it's why we have Godwin's Law, because it just isn't good arguing to say that someone is evil for having the same trait as a famous historical villain.

[Nenga]

In that situation the people who did murder your family live close by.

 

In the current situation, these people did not murder anyone, yet they once met the people who did murder your family, years ago, and are treated like they murdered your family.

Not even that. The people who moved in are only loosely related to the people that may or may not have known the murderers years ago.

Good point but I figure if the people are in the same terrorist organization, they all follow the same cause. So they've justified it for themselves.

 

The family, not so much.