Gun Control

[Giordano]

Are there any numbers for violent crime with other weapons in areas with restricted guns? Just out of curiosity... I've been wondering if banning guns would just lead people to use other weapons.

 

Theres already enough stabbings.... I dont want to imagine what else people would resort to.

Texas Chainsaw Massacre: everyday!

[Furah]

The number of suicides in Japan has nothing to do with the rate of crime, it's the culture. I fail to see what it has to do with gun control laws, not everyone there is killing themselves with a gun.

It's just a comparison.

[Pirate_Felix]

More likely because two kids bought ammo at the wall mart and bought a gun legally and then shot 12 students and one teacher.

But your explanation is probably more likely!

The bullying that both went through, with one gunman being antisocial (This definition) while the the other was suicidal clearly had nothing to do with it.

You aren't born suicidal.

Not sure where you're going with that.

He got suicidal due to his bleepy environment

[meb]

You mean they still do the sword stab in their gut and slice across?!

No but the culture there revolves more around honor. I read an article about a japanese ceo of a flight company that had a plain crash because of a technical problem. The ceo appologized to all the relatives of the victims in person and then commited suicide.

[das1330]

Are there any numbers for violent crime with other weapons in areas with restricted guns? Just out of curiosity... I've been wondering if banning guns would just lead people to use other weapons.

 

 

There are. See the graph below, compiled by the Australian home office. The US has relatively lax gun laws, while Britain and Australia are restrictive. Notice anything?

 

 

[meb]

That proves nothing. It's perfectly possible to rape someone without using a gun for example. One made out of metal that is /inappropriate joke

[obfuscator]

As others have said, there's a difference between violent crime and gun crime.

[Orpheus]

Are there any numbers for violent crime with other weapons in areas with restricted guns? Just out of curiosity... I've been wondering if banning guns would just lead people to use other weapons.

 

 

There are. See the graph below, compiled by the Australian home office. The US has relatively lax gun laws, while Britain and Australia are restrictive. Notice anything?

 

 

 

That doesn't mention "gun crime", only "violent crime". If you're attempting to prove that guns actually lower crime rates, then that isn't helping. Not all crimes are perpetrated with a gun. Naturally, if criminals knew that someone had a gun and wouldn't hesitate to use it in defense, they'd probably steer clear.

[Pirate_Felix]

Are there any numbers for violent crime with other weapons in areas with restricted guns? Just out of curiosity... I've been wondering if banning guns would just lead people to use other weapons.

 

 

There are. See the graph below, compiled by the Australian home office. The US has relatively lax gun laws, while Britain and Australia are restrictive. Notice anything?

 

 

 

That doesn't mention "gun crime", only "violent crime". If you're attempting to prove that guns actually lower crime rates, then that isn't helping. Not all crimes are perpetrated with a gun. Naturally, if criminals knew that someone had a gun and wouldn't hesitate to use it in defense, they'd probably steer clear.

Requesting graph of people died due to violent crimes.

[Orpheus]

That chart mentions violent crimes, but doesn't make it clear the amount that involved a gun. Besides, if you ban guns, people will just use the next best thing. Humans are rather crafty.

[Racheya]

A lot of violent crime in the UK is yobbo chavs hanging around on street corners, I'd say. Most of them have guns, not knives.

[Alg]

That chart mentions violent crimes, but doesn't make it clear the amount that involved a gun. Besides, if you ban guns, people will just use the next best thing. Humans are rather crafty.

That's why I was asking for numbers. I don't have a gun, so if I wanted to commit a crime I'd use some knife I have in the kitchen or something (Example, of course. I don't want to commit a crime).

[Pirate_Felix]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Ushomicidesbyweapon.svg

This is relevant

 

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/figures/00001168.gif

Is old, but also relevant.

[sees_all1]

That doesn't mention "gun crime", only "violent crime". If you're attempting to prove that guns actually lower crime rates, then that isn't helping. Not all crimes are perpetrated with a gun. Naturally, if criminals knew that someone had a gun and wouldn't hesitate to use it in defense, they'd probably steer clear.

 

Could you please rephrase what you've said? I'm not clear on the main point you're wanting to make, and I'm a little confused by the contradiction (maybe its just me).

I'll go back to lurking now :thumbup: .

[indy500fan]

I bought a handgun two weekends ago. It took 10 minutes to go through the checks. There are checks though, if I was a felon or not a resident of Indiana I wouldn't have been able to get one.

[das1330]

As others have said, there's a difference between violent crime and gun crime.

 

How is the particular implement used to commit a crime in any way relevant to a discussion of gun availability? It doesn't matter if you are shot or stabbed, you are still dead.

[Wisp]

I'm quite against major forms of gun control. In Vermont, the law is basically: be 16+ (though most stores only sell to 18+), and then the dealer has to record your name for a few years. I don't event remember having any incidents of gun crime. Murders that we hear about here are usually stabbings, drowning, etc.

 

I personally have carried a gun in self defense (and I'm only 17), but it was because I was going to an extremely bad neighborhood by vermont standards, and there was a bad situationgoing on. I obviously didn't have to use it, but it made me feel a lot safer. I know that dealers and the like would be able to get guns illegally if the laws were stricter anyway, so I'd rather have one too.

[Zierro]

As others have said, there's a difference between violent crime and gun crime.

 

How is the particular implement used to commit a crime in any way relevant to a discussion of gun availability? It doesn't matter if you are shot or stabbed, you are still dead.

 

Masque was asking for statistics involving knife/scissors/halberd/etc. crimes to see if there's a correlation behind banning guns and criminals just using different weapons to compensate.

[obfuscator]

As others have said, there's a difference between violent crime and gun crime.

 

How is the particular implement used to commit a crime in any way relevant to a discussion of gun availability? It doesn't matter if you are shot or stabbed, you are still dead.

It's completely relevant - your graph shows violent crime rates making no mention of guns whatsoever.

 

Felix's graphs show quite clearly that gun related offenses are far higher in the US then they are anywhere else, which is data relevant to the current topic.

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Ushomicidesbyweapon.svg

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/figures/00001168.gif

 

Reposted his links.

[ember3579]

Here's the question though; how useful are gun ban laws when criminals can still get guns illegally (sometimes even easier than the legal route)? Also, I'd like to see statistics comparing crime rates and the results of them before and after gun bans, if possible. My hypothesis; with law-abiding citizens turning in their firearms and criminals having less access to weapons (though still a fair number, remember the black market), we'd see a minor to moderate drop in the number of violent crimes but a higher mortality rate of the same. Reason? Fewer jackasses can get their paws on firearms, but the ones that do have little to no mentionable opposition.

 

Personally, the best option would be to 1) institute a firearm safety course of some kind into public school (teaching people what it is, how it's relevant to society, not to stick things in the barrel while not cleared, things like that) so that people know how they are to be used, and 2) crackdown and purging of the black market. A LOT of criminals are repeat offenders; if they don't have access to a near-inexhaustible supply of weapons and ammo whenever they want, then they're going to be finding it very hard to operate (assuming that 1 is implemented, or at least the norm is kept). I'll listen to any real solutions you may have, and provide commentary on them as they come up.

[das1330]

As others have said, there's a difference between violent crime and gun crime.

 

How is the particular implement used to commit a crime in any way relevant to a discussion of gun availability? It doesn't matter if you are shot or stabbed, you are still dead.

It's completely relevant - your graph shows violent crime rates making no mention of guns whatsoever.

 

Felix's graphs show quite clearly that gun related offenses are far higher in the US then they are anywhere else, which is data relevant to the current topic.

 

http://upload.wikime...desbyweapon.svg

http://www.cdc.gov/m...es/00001168.gif

 

Reposted his links.

 

 

 

Relevant to the current topic only if one somehow holds crimes where a gun was used to be worse then other identical crimes without such an object - which is irrational, since it implies fear of the object itself. What is relevant is overall crime statistics; which show that no connection between guns and crime likely exists since many of those countries without guns report high rates of similarly violent crime, in the form of stabbings and similar such things.

 

 

ember - for one such connection between bans and crime, look at the chart I posted above. The last major gun-banning bill passed in Britain was ratified in 1997. See anything interesting about 1998?

[Alg]

You may also have to take into account population stats. There are more people in the US than most other developed countries, and probably a higher gap between the rich and poor.

[Dizzle229]

Sort of related, I was in a sporting goods store in Montauk a few weeks ago and I overheard a funny conversation.

 

Kid: Ms...? Ms...?

Employee: Go ahead hon, I'm listening.

Kid: Are those real guns behind the counter?

Employee: No baby, those are airsoft.

Kid: Oh. Well if they were real, would you sell them to me?

Employee: *giggles* No, I wouldn't sell them to you.

[paul191600]

/halberd/

Now THAT I would like to see in the news. "Clinically insane man attacks neighbor with halberd!"

[Alg]

/halberd/

Now THAT I would like to see in the news. "Clinically insane man attacks neighbor with halberd!"

Have to admit, if I was so inclined, I'd totally do that.