Space

[Jehosaphat]

And you don't? You just try to "request" further explanation or a change of results for it with science crap because you get confused. "IT SHOULD HAVE WORKED BECAUSE *insert long science rant that anyone with access to wikipedia could understands here*"

Fixed.

Your "fix" is irrelevant because this game is filled with, nay, completely and totally made up of pseudoscience. We make crap up, and the mod approves it so long as it's not OP. I have short-range guns that create shockwaves when they hit stuff, you don't see me trying to explain it by coming up with some sort of semi-realistic battery that could possibly power the things for multiple shots.... especially considering that the energy needed to overcome the shear strength of various materials would be exceptionally vast....

 

And I shouldn't have to look stuff up on wikipedia to understand what's happening in a pseudoscience game.

 

Edit: Danget, Tech, why must you ninja me

[archimage_a]

"Laser beams

Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation in a coherant, directed beam.

 

plasma

Plasma is a state of matter similar to gas in which a certain portion of the particles are ionized. The basic premise is that heating a gas dissociates its molecular bonds, rendering it into its constituent atoms. Further heating leads to ionization (a loss of electrons), turning it into a plasma: containing charged particles, positive ions and negative electrons.

 

 

energy densities of around a megajoule per cubic centimeter.

Which requires us to calculate the energy requirement of the laser, which requires us to know what it is expected to perform...Such as vapourising matter.

 

This effect, called "blooming," causes the laser to defocus and disperse energy into the atmosphere.

Which then requires us to develop the previous point to compensate for the dispersal, which is a complicated function since we need to increase the various variables.

 

Blooming can be more severe if there is fog, smoke, or dust in the air.

Requires us to compensate for weather conditions.

 

 

So...

Mather: 'Oh yeah, what energy level of lasers?'

Archi: 'About 4.4 Megajoules.'

Mather: 'But that doesn't account for blooming.'

Mather: 'Did you compensate for blooming.'

Mather: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blooming_(laser)#Blooming'

Mather: 'So what is the energy level?'

Archi: '0.005 kT per shot'

Mather: 'Whats that in Columbs?'

 

 

While I, and other people, are dealing with several dozen other people, we are expected to conduct a scientific analysis that typically takes me two or three hours to arrive at an answer which is of little consequence to you.

 

 

 

But battering other people with claims based on psudeo-hard science*...like the nanites that eat whole armies in seconds...just spawns arguements and annoyance...because no one else is willing to sift through the psudeo-hard science and missing information to arrive at the correct answer.

 

*Stargate/TV Tech.

[The_Mather1]

First off, power input and power output are constant for a laser as long as no part of it is changed, blooming only reduces the focus of the light before it hits the target.

Second, I have only suguested one TV tech, stargates, for which the only arguements was for you to state the power requirements in an understandable manner.

Third, I asked you to estimate time, going only by quantities, you established the required time.

 

Retech, Archi already requires scientific knowledge of us. Well, that, math skills and/or good structure of thinking.

[Nero]

Archi already requires scientific knowledge of us. Well, that, math skills and/or good structure of thinking.

No he doesn't.

[Seraphi]

Mather, I really doubt Archi is going to spend an unnecessary amount of time to cater to your obsession with putting it in coulombs when kT as an arbitrary and standard unit works perfectly fine and provides a basis to create and compare things easily and quickly.

 

Using coulombs instead would not help at all, and would end up making it fall further into solid science when the entire game is made up of soft science. If he started using Coulombs in anything, I'm fairly certain you would take that, and then apply it to something else... And then again, and again, ad infinatum, until the game becomes such a mess of science that it takes 3 hours to work out the damage we just did to the enemy ship because you insisted we worked it out in j/m^3 or what have you.

[archimage_a]

First off, power input and power output are constant for a laser as long as no part of it is changed, blooming only reduces the focus of the light before it hits the target.

Sigh...Yes...however Blooming would be a fairly common occurance in atomspheric games...like most of them...so the lasers would already have taken account of them, and would be more powerful to compensate...Ergo the input would need to be increased, which would increase the output, which would increase the amount of blooming, which decreases the amount of damage done, which means the input needs to be increased....ect.

 

 

Second, I have only suguested one TV tech, stargates, for which the only arguements was for you to state the power requirements in an understandable manner.

Like the nanites, the Alpha Nero...

I am not talking, specifically, about Stargates, I am talking about the thing you have in common with Dusty:

'I am right and I refuse to listen to the game until you let me be right.'

You do it with Science, Dusty does it whenever he fails at something he considers easy...or necessary to him winning the game.

 

And, as I said before, you are asking for me to arbitrarily pick a number out of thin air and apply that number as a real, scientific number. If I happened to have a brain the size of a house and thus the capacity to calculate the requirement of the wormhole and the output of all the various types of reactor...then yeah, sure (Though I would be working for the government...or turning Space in to a MMORPG and earning 10p an hour per person...I figure 5,000 people, £500 an hour.)

But since I do not have infinate time I gave you a game practical number...as in a number that you could use in game to produce a result, without breaking science or breaking the game...or both.

 

Third, I asked you to estimate time, going only by quantities, you established the required time.

Yes...except you commonly use figures that are grossly innaccurate or deeply flawed...Like your railgun launch platform which used the theoretical max speed of the capsule, rather than the max tolerance of human beings...

 

Or you go with ideal conditions (Lasers), post links to controlled condition experiments(Coil Guns), make fallistic(Brilliant word) statements (Like the whole missiles that can intercept missles 100% of the time)...and then use the figures, statistics and premises established there to propose weapons that work in the field...

 

If all it is you want me to do is times one number by another number then all you are asking me to do is rubberstamp it:

 

Mather: If a nanite can eat a man in 5 minutes how long would it take to eat 10 men?

Archi: 50 minutes

*Sometime later*

Mather: My nanites can eat a man in 5 minutes!

Nex: What, no they can't!

Mather: Archi said they could eat 10 men in 50 minutes, therefore they can eat 1 man in 5 minutes.

Nex: Thats OP

Mather: Archi said they could.

 

 

 

 

In any event, this has gone quite far enough, fact is that we all have to live with compromises. If you disagree please start your own game.

[The_Mather1]

Lasers usually use only a specific power and as such don't compensate.

 

I've done that, it's not hard. It took me ten minutes and maybe 500 keystrokes in excel.

 

I never asked any such questions, only "how much time would x nanites take to eat an army of y soldiers?".

[Earth]

MAther, can it. Please. You just make everything a nightmare of confusion.

[Icuownage]

I'm against giving individuals chunks of resources, it's better to know what exactly they're making.

 

Wait I'm confused, the system of giving people resources pretty much averts anyway of people stealing crap.

 

It's a better system overall, it promotes hardwork and levels out people grabbing resources when we don't actually want them used, I.E what started the entire problem in the first place.

 

Also Chi was promised it, I'll be very annoyed if he doesn't get it.

[Nexaduro]

SI has been instructed to physically prevent anyone from snatching resources without permission. That completely prevents the problem. Chi has no reason to recieve resources necessary for our mining fleet. But I hate going back on promises... I suppose I have to give him the kT.

[The_Mather1]

I just realized that even though Earth was killed by me, I still have not killed any sentient being. God bless those nanites.

[Retech]

You mean that you haven't killed any sentient being, consciously.

[The_Mather1]

Technically I was only a weapon, since neither my concious nor subconcious mind performed the action.

[archimage_a]

I've done that, it's not hard. It took me ten minutes and maybe 500 keystrokes in excel.

You've done what? You have run a Space Session while looking up things on Wikipedia, and inputing figures into excel? Only using 500 keystrokes on Excel?

 

Thats amazing, I didn't know Excel was a web browser or IRC client.

[The_Mather1]

No, excel is what you use instead of a calculator. It makes math with variables and constants easy. And no one said anything about doing it at the same time as something else. You could do it between sessions or not at all, but if I can calculate the correct number, then you should at least be able to make a rough estimate that you think fits into your game, afterall, some things require a non-multipourpose unit to be understood. The word potato would even have made more sense than the reply you gave when I asked for the neccessary charge to power the gate, since that could be interprated as a potato battery being enough.

[archimage_a]

So what you are saying is that you want something that is obviously wrong, rather than something which works.

 

And yes, excel is fine if you are fiddling with an equation...if you are working out an equation it is a lot less useful.

 

For instance:

Laser energy requirement = ((Distance penetrated*Specific Heat of Vapourisation of the Target)+(Blooming Coefficent*Density of the Air*Distance travelled))/100*Efficency of the laser.

 

Pretty simple.

 

Then you need to work out what you are firing at...Like a human.

Do you happen to know the specific heat of vapourisation of Human Skin, Blood, Bones and Muscle?

Can you work it out?

 

So, when you have worked out the specific heat of vapourisation of Human Skin, of Blood, the amount of blood in any specific area of the human body, the specific heat of vapourisation of bones, which, I will tell you for free, is mostly Calcium Phosphate...then of bone marrow, then of the muscles, synovial fluid and anything else you can think of...then you can calcuate the net specific heat of vapourisation required to cause significant damage to a human being.

 

Blooming Coefficent is just my general term for whatever it is required.

Density of the Air seems easy, though smoke and whatnot, rain, shields...this that and all the other stuff make it far more complicated...So you need to build a decent level of redundancy into the laser, since you won't ALWAYS be firing in the worse possible conditions...So probably a variable resistor or some such.

Then trying to work out the max range of the laser, which is a function related to the inverse square law...which Excel excels at.

 

Then calculate the efficency of the laser.

 

 

Once you have done that you have the power required, and then you just need to work out what generator can supply that level of power, as well as making sure the weight of the generator can comfortably be supported by the firer...on top of the weight of the laser.

 

 

 

 

Because when you start using specific numbers you have to consider all of variables, not just the ones you want.

[The_Mather1]

I would rather work with a number I can understand, so that I can actually make stuff for it too. A cost of operation for something that does not have a generator of its own is a useless number and an annoyance and hindrance for the gamer, as there's nothing to base alternatives on, I have no idea wether it needs simply a solar panel and a large battery or a helios plant and a supercapacitor.

[Retech]

You could just send a PM to Archi saying "Yo, I have this idea for [insert idea here]. My goal is to have it [insert stuff the idea does]. How much will it cost to make it and how much power will I need to run it?"

 

It's much easier for the moderator to fit this into their scheme of things than trying to make up mostly arbitrary figures that lead to wild unbalancing.

[Seraphi]

Indeed. By making everything calculable in kTs, the system has been standardised. There is no need to work out how many electrons X will take to do Z when you can instead work out the number of kTs required to do Z, which makes it easy to compare to everything else.

 

All energy requirements can be done in kT, as well as material requirements, which mean they can all be easily kept track of, compared, and modified.

[The_Mather1]

The workings for the gates were made in session by asking SI if it would work, but when it came to power consumption I was left with a cost, not anything that could anyhow be used as a unit for elecrtical charge, even though the device works on electricity. And since there's no cost-to-power ratio, I'm left clueless as to what kinds of renewable energy I can use to power it.

[Leiana]

What the hell is everyone talking about?

 

@ Faust: Cool. Hilde was the very first character I compleated story mode with. I had trouble compleating the story mode with Ivy, but not as much trouble with the dude with the nunchucks, Cervantes, Nightmare, Sigfried, Agol, and Angol Fear (Holy crap was she easy to beat). Any clue how to unlock Darth Vader's secret apprentice? And Btw, Have you seen the comercials for Force Unleashed II? I own the first one, and the second I hope to get for my birthday.

[Seraphi]

Lynx, Archi already asked you to take non relevent chatter to the back room.

[Leiana]

Must've missed that notice. Sorry. Anywho........ hopefully next session I'll be in control of myself and not do something that ends up with me kissing chi again. Oh and Jeremiah, I'll kindly remind you to never tell a stubborn girl to give up. That will end badly. No, I will not give up on looking for Aiden untill I see for myself that he's dead, betrayed me, or compleatly forgotten who I am. And unless there's some sort of medication that helps stop stubborness, I'll continue to be stubborn.

[Seraphi]

Neural rearrangement surgery.

 

Or just turn you into a robot and reprogram you into an engine maintainance drone.

 

Servitors for everyone, hurrah!

[Nexaduro]

Hrm, if I remember correctly, I configured my mind to make bad things happen if unauthorized, foreign technology tried to fiddle with me. I believe that any sensors attempting to scan my brain implode.