The Last Standing Domino

[HisLordship]

 

What I'm talking about is the old rules that stood in the way of winning.

It's not a doom story, but let's all agree that the clan world is always changing.

 

What I believe is that at some stage, the changes to the clan world are going to taper off.

Why? Because all the dominoes will have fallen.

 

The dominoes are the old codes of honour and/or respect written by the old school clans.

One by one, they have been knocked down, for better or for worse.

I like to use this analogy because the destruction of one eads to the destruction of another, and once they fall they do not come back... unless Jagex intervenes.

Admittedly, I am glad some are gone, but I miss some others.

 

What I ask of you is simply, what do you miss and what are to glad to be rid of?

I've written a list of old laws that have fallen, and it is not definitive.

Please help me add to it if you can remember one.

So. To miss or not to miss?

 

 

 

 

 

FALLEN DOMINOES

what we've lost...

 

Object Hugging

 

Runescape 2 is brand new. It is 2004 and the clan world is finding its feet. Hugging is a tactic developed by the more innovative clans. The majority of the clan world does not like it. But within 6 months of Runescape 2, every clan is using it.

 

 

Non-returning (and the Edgeville greeting)

 

Believe it or not, returning used to be dishonourable! The three pillars of strength were numbers, levels and organisation. In 2005 DI started to buck the trend by returning in p2p and this quickly translated to f2p. Soon all the top clans were doing it, introducing a fourth pillar of strength - bank size/no lifing.

 

 

Dragging

 

For planned fights this is not so much an issue, but in unplanned fights, it happens, and it became acceptable as a technique under DS's reign. Dragging is another technique that is part of the clan world now that wasn't always.

 

 

Spying

 

Spies are getting more and more common. Five years ago there was still debate over it. "Respect peoples' privacy..." etc. Now it's a fully integrated part of clan life. Those who object aren't really with the times.

 

 

Account Sharing

 

There were about two or three clans that pioneered this. Adelais is a big name from my memory. I remember it was a big deal and people caused a huge storm. Well, this is so commonplace now that Jagex turns a blind eye to it. This is one I personally wish had not fallen.

 

 

Welfare Gear

 

This one fell as returning and crashing became more popular. DI was a big advocate of fighting in high quality gear, but clans would crash in cheap stuff, and as sets got too expensive to sustain, naturally, welfaring became part of the equation. It's still not encouraged, but it's acceptable. We still fight clans that have been known to pull out the welfare in the past.

 

 

In-Game Flaming

 

It's hard to imagine days when you'd be punished by your clan leader if you insulted other clans in public. I remember the Sacred Templars best for this. They were never rude, no matter how rude people were to them. The plus side to losing this one is that now rivalries are fiercer and the politics of the clan world is more exciting.

 

 

Single/Safe Hugging

 

Before they put safe zones in the wilderness, clans would be walking between the spiders and the greater demons on a number of worlds. In an encounter, if you fled, you lost your honour. It would actually make you a laughing stock. Most clans chose to fight to the death. Teleporting out was not an option until all the CC clans started doing it post-wilderness removal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FALLING DOMINOES

what we're losing...

 

Crashing

 

The death of this one is easy to trace. Before the wilderness removed, there were still NH clans that thrived on crashing. They were outcast and hated by the clan world. When the wilderness was removed, the excuse was that there were too few worlds for too many clans. So crashing factored in and became more and more acceptable. Nowadays crashing is just a nuisance, but a clan that crashes is met with little opposition, and it's becoming more and more commonplace.

 

 

Multiclanning

 

Now that teams have their own memberlists, mandatory events, and get ranked, there's nothing separating them from clans, except multiclanning. You can be in a team and a clan at the same time. That means if you love fighting, you get the chance to have more fights. Most clans nowadays do not allow multiclanning, but clans like AF (off the top of my head) are changing peoples' understanding of teams and clans. The distinction is blurring. At the moment it is still a minority of people who are in two clans/teams, but that minority is growing.

 

 

Hacking

 

This is probably the most resistant domino to falling. After years of hacks, most people still refuse to let this one become commonplace, though there are several clans who use it as a tactic to win fights. There's no point naming names. It's not appropriate for a topic like this. There's no denying that it's getting more popular however. It's starting out in the same way that years ago, crashing was a huge disgrace to the point where no clan would associate with crashers. History has proven that it is possible for hacking to no longer be extreme, but commonplace.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

STANDING DOMINOES

what remains...

 

Terms of War

 

At the moment, if two clans agree on rules, they won't break them for the most part. There's always a few exceptions, but if a clan breaks rules, they won't get any fights. It might seem outrageous to us in the present day that clans may ever want to violate agreed rules in order to win, but remember... crashing, hacking and returning all used to be outrageous as well. For the moment, this is safe. We won't invite non-clan members, we won't bring multispells to single fights, we won't mage if it's not allowed... yet. History, however, has shown us that what one generation won't accept, the next could. I consider us thus far lucky that we still have enough decency to adhere to rules.

 

This is the last standing domino.

 

 

 

___________________________________________________

 

The tl;dr summary

 

As clans get more and more keen to take the number one rank, they will knock down more dominoes to get there.

The pattern is obvious.

The minor rules were the first to go.

The bigger the issue, the longer it takes.

So my questions to you are simply as follows:

 

What are you glad to be rid of in the clan world?

What do you wish had never fallen?

Will there be a day when all the dominoes/codes of respect fall?

 

As a final respectful reminder, this is not a doom prophecy topic. Don't focus on the negatives.

The clan world has matured in ways and declined in others.

If we don't come out even and/or better, then we would shrink and lose numbers... oh wait... oops.

[Adr1an]

I honestly dont get it.... it isnt about the clan world as a whole but what your clan does on a singular level. Your own clan is guilty of some of the "dominoes" and you have been leader. They are not fallen until EVERY clan is guilty of it.

 

What is your definition of a fallen domino?

 

Does every clan in the clan world have to do it?

 

We sure as hell dont do half of the "fallen", none of the "falling", and only through breaking from the other clan do we break initial terms. It is reactionary.

 

 

People focus so much on the negativity that they dont see that there is still good. Instead focus on that..... How do you plan on fixing it or do you just plan on discussing this kind of stuff?

 

How much of these "dominoes" do you yourself intend on stopping within your own clan?

[MrGwas]

What are you glad to be rid of in the clan world? Err, nothing The older clan world was much more interesting and more enjoyable than this one lol.

What do you wish had never fallen? I wish people didn't resort to Hacking/DDosing it's pathetic to do for the reasons of runescape lol.

Will there be a day when all the dominoes/codes of respect fall? There will always be the clans that still have honor and respect.

[Makaaveli]

Will there be a day when all the dominoes/codes of respect fall? There will always be the clans that still have honor and respect.[/b]

 

This.

 

I honestly dont get it.... it isnt about the clan world as a whole but what your clan does on a singular level. Your own clan is guilty of some of the "dominoes" and you have been leader. They are not fallen until EVERY clan is guilty of it.

 

What is your definition of a fallen domino?

 

Does every clan in the clan world have to do it?

 

We sure as hell dont do half of the "fallen", none of the "falling", and only through breaking from the other clan do we break initial terms. It is reactionary.

 

 

People focus so much on the negativity that they dont see that there is still good. Instead focus on that..... How do you plan on fixing it or do you just plan on discussing this kind of stuff?

 

How much of these "dominoes" do you yourself intend on stopping within your own clan?

 

And this.

 

 

People still have morals and know the difference between right/wrong. That's never going to change.

[HisLordship]

Actually I'm sort of glad I get a different reaction from Tip.it than RSC.

On RSC they are completely in agreement with this image of the clan world.

To come on Tip.it and hear so much optimism about morality is really a breath of fresh air.

[CruelKiller]

Will only answer this one

 

Will there be a day when all the dominoes/codes of respect fall?

Not a chance well not for a long time for sure. There will always have a respectful clan out there that will keep the flame alive and from that clan many more are able to come out from it. The only thing that might happen is reducing the amount little by little which for now it hasn't happened YET and hope it doesn't happen.

[Krist115]

If the clan world never changed and stayed the same for years and years it would die out very quickly, all we can be is thanful that it is changing, maybe you can subtract some things like the ddosing/hacking/petty flaming but honestly im happy that the clan world now is different from 2005 lets say, does it mean its better? no, does it means its worse? no. Its just different and in 5 years time it will be different again.

[Nobody]

I'm glad about the loss of single/safe hugging, never seen any point in fighting to the death when your opponent has superior numbers, organization, etc.

 

 

I wish the clan world still kept flaming, hacking, real life attacks out. Also, crashing, while NI were a nuisance they were easily handled, now almost every clan (and every Top 10 clan) crashes. Possibly one of the saddest things I've seen.

[Danny_TeamDan]

You can sit here and over analyze this but it's not going to change anything, in fact I think it discourages new people to clan. Stop focusing on the negatives of the clan world so much and just enjoy it and do what you think is right. If you stand up for your beliefs eventually your fellow friends will support you and follow (For the most part) and as a leader of a clan you have more control and can change stuff and the way people view the clan world.

 

I think it was Downfall vs Ak latin we didn't want to clear some crashers because they brought randoms or something in previous wars but we kept hitting them while eos was hitting the vr members in ak latin so I just left the war because it was dumb and I didn't agree with it. We ended up just leaving because Ak latin didn't want to hop worlds and let them take the win. Bigger clans might not have the luxury where a few people get upset and leave the ranks will listen to you but I don't think the top clans will ever become the "old school honor" that you are seeking due to their egos.

 

I still think there are a lot of respectable clans out there just they aren't the powerful ones.

[Pieter_00777]

It's obvious they all agree with your point of view since on RSC they're all common with things like that happening or in your words; falling dominoes.

 

I'm pretty sure there will always be clans who will 'maintain their dominoes stable', I personally believe you focused a bit too much on the idea that the biggest part of the clan world consists of the most powerfull/popular ones these days and the regular clans follow their steps, but I do see your point though but if this topic is helping, I doubt it.

 

Even though, if all those things who lack respect you've came up with wouldn't be there, wouldn't we all get bored A LOT faster?

[Billy Key]

Flaming was always a part of RuneScape, I know BK used to have a bit of a reputation, one of our clan motto's is from Foswald (former leader), a long time ago flaming someone for spelling the name of our clan wrong. That's one of the many that like Adr1an, I don't think all clans are guilty of. i think the big clans are guilty of those for the most part and hence people on RSC think it's common place where people on tip.it who have far less regard for the biggest clans see it as less common.

 

I have to say I do miss the Edgeville greetings... That was always fun and then whichever clan won would rush in at the end and both clans would say gf... Always good having a chat and talking about how the fight went.

 

I wish returning hadn't been introduced...

 

and clans will always have some sort of rule, the clan world would fall apart if there wasn't, while there a lots of different clans, there is a pressure for all clans to abide by some rules apart from those that were made to intentionally break all of the rules. Even before "honour" there were things that clans did and didn't do.

[Snowblood]

Terms of war has fallen long ago by ( with all respect ) NH clans.

They mass snipe and break no-sniping caps.

Also bound breaking gets abused alot.

 

Would you seriously allow multi-clanning? Dont think so either.

[obfuscator]

Interesting topic.

 

Hacking is one that I wish would cease completely. While I'm thankful that many clans chose not to adopt such techniques, that (combined with ddosing) show some people take this game way too seriously.

 

In terms of the others that we've lost, it's debatable that returning changed the clan world for the worse, but the others...well, change is always going to happen and in many ways I feel they made things more interesting. Obviously nobody likes rule breakers but I don't think there's any clan that can claim to never having broken the rules once.

[The Observer]

What are you glad to be rid of in the clan world?

 

Surely hugging and tanking is a practice that is good to have caught on. Kind of odd to not hug and instead just sit there and die.

 

What do you wish had never fallen?

 

Crashing and hacking in my mind aren't the best change. Especially hacking which has no excuse. It's just a game.

 

Will there be a day when all the dominoes/codes of respect fall?

 

Judging on the trend right now, probably. But there will always be clans who will be honourable.

[Amateurnoob]

I agree with some of the points that arise, but many of the points you have given such as the hacking and flaming and what not is not only carried out within the clan world, but it is also carried out within the entire Runescape community, making it a issue that Jagex should be concerned with rather than letting it bring down the clan world alone, as it brings down the entire game rather than one aspect of it. As for the rest of what's stated, I'm sure the whole honor thing is great and all, but seriously this game has turned over a new generation, some of the old players did not have a tolerance level to even try the new wildy, that is their fault, with them the old ways have died, does it matter if it's carried out? In my mind no, what matters is that we all still have fun playing the game, regardless of if we're crashed, if we're ddos'd or if we're flamed, as long as I'm with my clan, my friends, my family I will be happy, and having fun. Sure it's frustrating at first, but honestly, it's a game if people take it to that level let them, they're just showing what idiots they truly are, and they come a dime a dozen. My take on it is to not give those people the reaction they want, act as if nothing happened and go on with the game. The new generation of Runescape clanners, can make their own new dominoes, just because "one" domino is to be believed left standing doesn't mean you cannot set them back up, however hard it may be (seeing as that was the one thing I hated about dominoes having to set them back up once you knocked them down the first time) the new clans that have emerged can keep the aspect of all of these as long as they work towards it. My clan has experimented with crashing a fight, and we decided it was just not for us, and I know with other clans emerging the honorable ways can be left intact as long as the leadership commends it. In reality when you look at it the clan community as a whole is doing a damn good job, it's just the hype of all of the Top 10 beef that really makes the clan world look like it's going down the drain. In reality I could care less who is crashing who in the top 10 clan world, as the real majority of the clan world lays below that. But that's just my 2 cents.

[Thehitman324]

I agree with some of the points that arise, but many of the points you have given such as the hacking and flaming and what not is not only carried out within the clan world, but it is also carried out within the entire Runescape community, making it a issue that Jagex should be concerned with rather than letting it bring down the clan world alone, as it brings down the entire game rather than one aspect of it. As for the rest of what's stated, I'm sure the whole honor thing is great and all, but seriously this game has turned over a new generation, some of the old players did not have a tolerance level to even try the new wildy, that is their fault, with them the old ways have died, does it matter if it's carried out? In my mind no, what matters is that we all still have fun playing the game, regardless of if we're crashed, if we're ddos'd or if we're flamed, as long as I'm with my clan, my friends, my family I will be happy, and having fun. Sure it's frustrating at first, but honestly, it's a game if people take it to that level let them, they're just showing what idiots they truly are, and they come a dime a dozen. My take on it is to not give those people the reaction they want, act as if nothing happened and go on with the game. The new generation of Runescape clanners, can make their own new dominoes, just because "one" domino is to be believed left standing doesn't mean you cannot set them back up, however hard it may be (seeing as that was the one thing I hated about dominoes having to set them back up once you knocked them down the first time) the new clans that have emerged can keep the aspect of all of these as long as they work towards it. My clan has experimented with crashing a fight, and we decided it was just not for us, and I know with other clans emerging the honorable ways can be left intact as long as the leadership commends it. In reality when you look at it the clan community as a whole is doing a damn good job, it's just the hype of all of the Top 10 beef that really makes the clan world look like it's going down the drain. In reality I could care less who is crashing who in the top 10 clan world, as the real majority of the clan world lays below that. But that's just my 2 cents.

Holy crap dude, seperate your paragraphs.

[Adr1an]

I agree with some of the points that arise, but many of the points you have given such as the hacking and flaming and what not is not only carried out within the clan world, but it is also carried out within the entire Runescape community, making it a issue that Jagex should be concerned with rather than letting it bring down the clan world alone, as it brings down the entire game rather than one aspect of it. As for the rest of what's stated, I'm sure the whole honor thing is great and all, but seriously this game has turned over a new generation, some of the old players did not have a tolerance level to even try the new wildy, that is their fault, with them the old ways have died, does it matter if it's carried out? In my mind no, what matters is that we all still have fun playing the game, regardless of if we're crashed, if we're ddos'd or if we're flamed, as long as I'm with my clan, my friends, my family I will be happy, and having fun. Sure it's frustrating at first, but honestly, it's a game if people take it to that level let them, they're just showing what idiots they truly are, and they come a dime a dozen. My take on it is to not give those people the reaction they want, act as if nothing happened and go on with the game. The new generation of Runescape clanners, can make their own new dominoes, just because "one" domino is to be believed left standing doesn't mean you cannot set them back up, however hard it may be (seeing as that was the one thing I hated about dominoes having to set them back up once you knocked them down the first time) the new clans that have emerged can keep the aspect of all of these as long as they work towards it. My clan has experimented with crashing a fight, and we decided it was just not for us, and I know with other clans emerging the honorable ways can be left intact as long as the leadership commends it. In reality when you look at it the clan community as a whole is doing a damn good job, it's just the hype of all of the Top 10 beef that really makes the clan world look like it's going down the drain. In reality I could care less who is crashing who in the top 10 clan world, as the real majority of the clan world lays below that. But that's just my 2 cents.

Not give those people the reaction they want.... Act like nothing happened?

 

Didnt you make a video towards ph?

 

Hypocrite

[Amateurnoob]

Not give those people the reaction they want.... Act like nothing happened?

 

Didnt you make a video towards ph?

 

Hypocrite

 

Did I say we're perfect?

 

Did you read when I said we've tried crashing and everything else?

 

And it wasn't for us. Please stop taking 1 thing out of context, and read the post in its entirety next time you try to call me out for being a hypocrite.

 

 

@Thehitman4nr: I am trying to be like Oatlad.

[Adr1an]

Not give those people the reaction they want.... Act like nothing happened?

 

Didnt you make a video towards ph?

 

Hypocrite

 

Did I say we're perfect?

 

Did you read when I said we've tried crashing and everything else?

 

And it wasn't for us. Please stop taking 1 thing out of context, and read the post in its entirety next time you try to call me out for being a hypocrite.

 

 

@Thehitman4nr: I am trying to be like Oatlad.

 

There is a difference between admitting something and claiming something you dont even do. I read the post in its entirety and it doesnt make what you said any different. You still claim to just let stuff go when it comes to stuff but your actions show otherwise it seems.

 

Calling it for what it is dont blame me for it but your own wording.

[Amateurnoob]

Not give those people the reaction they want.... Act like nothing happened?

 

Didnt you make a video towards ph?

 

Hypocrite

 

Did I say we're perfect?

 

Did you read when I said we've tried crashing and everything else?

 

And it wasn't for us. Please stop taking 1 thing out of context, and read the post in its entirety next time you try to call me out for being a hypocrite.

 

 

@Thehitman4nr: I am trying to be like Oatlad.

 

There is a difference between admitting something and claiming something you dont even do. I read the post in its entirety and it doesnt make what you said any different. You still claim to just let stuff go when it comes to stuff but your actions show otherwise it seems.

 

Calling it for what it is dont blame me for it but your own wording.

 

Hey look at me I'm letting this go :), Look's like my actions prove otherwise. #Downfall if you ever need anything Adr1an, ac, war, you name it you got it. I've always liked "THE" :).

[bravehero12]

What are you glad to be rid of in the clan world?

dragging

 

What do you wish had never fallen?

welfare gear, im cheap

 

Will there be a day when all the dominoes/codes of respect fall?

2012

[Cubewarrior1]

What are you glad to be rid of in the clan world?

Spying is a huge part of warring. Sure it's a bit dishonourable but it is and always will be a part of warring. That goes for actual wars in real life aswell :P

Hugging and dragging has made clan wars far more interesting and exciting, I think the clan world must have benefited largly from it's arrival and consequential seal in warring.

The ability to run in during a PKing and now CWing war is a massive aspect in warring in general. I reckon it is for the best seeming as there is alot more too a war when you can return and it brings about more factors to think about.

 

What do you wish had never fallen?

Mainly multiclanning, I could write an essay on the level of misconception of people in the clan world towards multiclanning and how big an impact it has.

Also, in-game flaming is an annoyance but will always be present if dishonourable clans are, ie it will always be present.

Hacking, crashing and account sharing i disfavour plainly because they are pathetic and have a negative influence on our clan world.

 

Will there be a day when all the dominoes/codes of respect fall?

The 'dominoes' of today that we know will always fall, but subsequently new ones will emerge; that's life.

[Deltaer]

What do you wish had never fallen?

 

Welfare gear - In most clans, especially the top 10, you'd be striked/kicked out if you wore anything but full rune in the wild.. no exceptions. Tele runes were a big no no too. Another thing that would get you insta-kicked. Clans would not tolerate having their reputation tarnished by a few members who were cheap... now you see people in welfare gear all the time, which is pretty sad, cause it's a lot easier to obtain a rune set now that it was at the beginning of RS2.

 

Multiclanning - everyone seems to multiclan these days; being in a country clan, a team, and their primary clan. Call it whatever you want but it's multiclanning. In the old days you'd pretty much be banned from joining any clan if you had the reputation of a multiclanner. Now it seems that clans embrace the multiclanners and just let it slide. People should be loyal to one clan only and focus all their energy on building it, instead of jumping to teams/country clans to cover what your clan doesn't do. Pretty lame.

 

No-returning - Although to a much lower degree, I do miss the no-returning rule. You die once in a war, and you're out. You come back - you cheated, and your clan loses. It's a much better determinant of 'skill' (if there is such a thing in RS) than having the bank (or no life :P ) and being able to return. Although sometimes it is much funner to have wars last hours instead of a half hour or an hour.

 

Account sharing - like HisLordship said, everyone does it. Kind of defeats the purpose of working all on your own on an account, and not that honest when it comes to warring other clans, so not that big a fan of it.

 

Nice topic HisLordship!