And I'm sure that 10% of Christians would state that they consider violent affirmative action an acceptable method of preventing abortion.

 

Religion is not founded on tolerance, but ignorance, xenophobia, fear, hate and violence. The size of the study is also questionable, and it bears to keep in mind that there is usually a fairly weak link between people's words and their actions.

 

I'm glad to know a self-proclaimed atheist is pretending to be an expert on the founding morals of religion :rolleyes:

Morality has nothing to do with that post or with the OP. A better example would of been 10% would agree in violent actions against gays; seems like a better example.

 

So leave the morals argument out of this because terrorists and extremists don't listen to their religon's morals.

Religion is not founded on tolerance, but ignorance, xenophobia, fear, hate and violence.

As a very religious person myself, I'm going to call you on that and say throughout my entire life, throughout every bible study I've been to and throughout every church service I've been to, I have been taught to not fear god and not hate, but rather, "love your enemy". In fact my Christian instincts tell me I should forgive anyone who slurs our beliefs.

 

I'm confused why you could say religion is build upon such negativity, because I post here as true proof it's not.

 

I didn't say that it's adherents necessarily possessed any of those traits, but that the founding system is morally corrupted beyond belief.

 

[hide]Yes, very forgiving:

The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8 NLT)

 

So open to dissent:

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

 

So tolerant of personal rights:

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

 

Overkill?

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

[/hide]

 

PLEASE READ: Once again, I would like to stress the point that I do not belive that all religious apologists are evil or agree with the principles of Christianity. However, Christianity is a morally corrupt, simply revolting system of belief, even if it's adherents are not.

 

I'm glad to know a self-proclaimed atheist is pretending to be an expert on the founding morals of religion :rolleyes:

 

I forgot that the Bible is only available to believers.

 

I forgot that the Bible is only available to believers.

Funny that you say that, since your ridiculously one sided views of religion indicate you've probably never read any more of it then the passages the extreme left religion-bashers tell you to.

 

Do me a favour, will you? Go to church. Once. And tell me when they tell you to be violent, hateful, and racist.

Can we have even one thread that doesn't devolve into this [cabbage]?

Someone heard this from Glenn Beck:

 

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201012060007

 

The study was not conducted by or for Glenn Beck. And I haven't listened to his radio program in the past three months, so no, I did not hear it from Glenn Beck, I found it linked in a conservative blog.

 

 

And I'm sure that 10% of Christians would state that they consider violent affirmative action an acceptable method of preventing abortion.

Find a study that says anything remotely close to that, and we'll discuss it.

 

Religion is not founded on tolerance, but ignorance, xenophobia, fear, hate and violence. The size of the study is also questionable, and it bears to keep in mind that there is usually a fairly weak link between people's words and their actions.

Why are you going out of your way to defend this religion, while you trash all the rest?

And I'm sure that 10% of Christians would state that they consider violent affirmative action an acceptable method of preventing abortion.

 

Religion is not founded on tolerance, but ignorance, xenophobia, fear, hate and violence. The size of the study is also questionable, and it bears to keep in mind that there is usually a fairly weak link between people's words and their actions.

 

I'm glad to know a self-proclaimed atheist is pretending to be an expert on the founding morals of religion :rolleyes:

 

 

This post made my day, so stinking much.

 

 

 

And yet, if I claim to be an expert on the founding morals of atheism I'll be incorrect. After all, how could I know? I'm not an Atheist.

 

 

I'm really getting sick and tired of this post modernism crap. Not that it doesn't have merit, but sheesh people don't let it run your lives.

 

That being said, I fundamentally disagree with Cooldog's post, and thus have come to the conclusion that in order to not escalate things, I'll just leave it at that.

-snip-

It's hard to base religion, or Christianity at least, off a few (old testament) bible verses, especially off New Living Translations.. But I see your point. Going back to my point though, Christians aren't taught violence or to hate, they're are not told to fear god, they are in fact told the opposite. We're constantly reminded of this by many (more) verses in the bible, even in the old testament.

-snip-

It's hard to base religion, or Christianity at least, off a few (old testament) bible verses, especially off New Living Translations.. But I see your point. Going back to my point though, Christians aren't taught violence or to hate, they're are not told to fear god, they are in fact told the opposite. We're constantly reminded of this by many (more) verses in the bible, even in the old testament.

 

 

Well, they are told to fear God, but its not in the same sense of the word as we use it today. It means respect, in that regard.

I'll bet the percentage of Americans who fall under your loose definitions is greater. After all, many support the wars in the Middle East.

 

i have an issue with islam itself. i think the world would be a better place without it

Troll harder next time.

I'll bet the percentage of Americans who fall under your loose definitions is greater. After all, many support the wars in the Middle East.

 

Then again, I doubt they're all Christian ;)

EVERYONE IS A COMMUNIST!!! THEY ARE EVERYWHERE! SPREAD THE FEAR!

 

Whoops...wrong government-defined enemy.

Can I panic yet?

Like you, I also had to wait to find out who I was supposed to be afraid of. I was confused at first because I did not feel threatened at all, but once mainstream media told me, I felt a little safer knowing who I was afraid of.

I could say a similar number of christians would be terrorists if there was a political need to be as well :thumbup:

 

You could say that, but it wouldn't mean sh-- because its your opinion about a group of people and not a study of the collective opinions of that same group of people.

what percentage of christians support killing abortion doctors? Now what percentage would that be if you were living in a country where you were FORCED to get at least one abortion? (I would say at least 4-10%) of christians would support terrorism in that sense.

 

Go find it and let us know. Until then, you have no base for your claims.

what percentage of christians support killing abortion doctors? Now what percentage would that be if you were living in a country where you were FORCED to get at least one abortion? (I would say at least 4-10%) of christians would support terrorism in that sense.

 

Go find it and let us know. Until then, you have no base for your claims.

 

The quality of the study is also important, not just the fact that one was conducted. When several more groups have also produced statistics, I'll be interested in hearing.

 

As of now, if you drive around in Fallujah and ask angry young men what they think about terrorism and what their religious affiliation is, I think we'll get some pretty distorted examples.

I could make a survey that has those results, ask 100 people, probably find the stupidest rednecks to say yes they would support killing them and have my skewed results.

Your study/survey would be absolute trash, filled with bias. Worse, it would be designed to include biases, making you a less reliable source than a HuffPo op-ed or Glenn Beck's opinion.

 

Prove to me that YOUR information is reliable? How big a survey was it, how did they ask the question, how did they go about collecting the information? Who did they ask (poor stupid person or rich kings?) Where did they ask (Turkey or Iran?)

Its all inside, but you're too lazy to look.

 

The newest survey was conducted between July 28 and September 6, 2008 using in-home interviews

based upon multi-stage probability samples. In Egypt (1,101 interviews), Indonesia (1,120

interviews), and Pakistan (1,200 interviews) national probability samples were conducted covering

both urban and rural areas. These sample sizes have 95% confidence intervals of +/- 3 percentage

points. The surveys were conducted by the same research agencies that conducted the first wave of

START polling in late 2007 and early 2008 in order that the two waves be as comparable as possible.

The sampling designs were also identical to the first wave of polling in these three countries. Note:

Due to the addition of rural data and more refined weighting some of the 2006/7 findings cited in this

report are slightly different from those previously reported.

The supplemental polling as part of the WorldPublicOpinion.org network survey included Azerbaijan

(sample size 600), Jordan (583), the Palestinian territories (638), Turkey (1023) and Nigerian

Muslims (493). Confidence intervals for these countries range from +/- 3 to 4 percentage points. All

of these samples were national probability samples conducted through face-to-face interviewing.

I'll bet the percentage of Americans who fall under your loose definitions is greater. After all, many support the wars in the Middle East.

 

Then again, I doubt they're all Christian ;)

Which is why I said nothing about Christianity. Sorry, I didn't see the second page the first time I posted and mistakenly thought this was a discussion about the relation between terrorism and Islam.

 

I'll bet a larger percentage of Christians fall into the group I described than Atheists. This is based on my own generalizations about the likelihood of religious individuals to conform to certain standards, and I have no statistical evidence to back up my claim. But, of course, I'm biased ;)

I'll bet the percentage of Americans who fall under your loose definitions is greater. After all, many support the wars in the Middle East.

 

Then again, I doubt they're all Christian ;)

 

Bet a lot of them are, since the majority of Americans are Christian. Just like a large number of people in the countries they did this study are Muslim. Really doesn't matter that they are Muslim.

 

Also the sample sizes at quick glance at your study list numbers like 600, which is pretty small...

 

 

e:

 

Go find it and let us know. Until then, you have no base for your claims.

 

If Glen Beck uses it, you can bet that there's something wrong with it

 

 

 

 

As of now, if you drive around in Fallujah and ask angry young men what they think about terrorism and what their religious affiliation is, I think we'll get some pretty distorted examples.

 

This is what I was trying to say

http://www.gallup.com/poll/125312/religious-prejudice-stronger-against-muslims.aspx

 

It's not like Americans don't hate Islam right back.

 

(Make what you will of the poll)

Go find it and let us know. Until then, you have no base for your claims.

 

If Glen Beck uses it, you can bet that there's something wrong with it

 

Right, so a study conducted by several respected groups, cited by Glenn Beck is enough for you to dismiss that study as "biased"? Something here is biased, but it isn't the study.

Go find it and let us know. Until then, you have no base for your claims.

 

If Glen Beck uses it, you can bet that there's something wrong with it

 

Right, so a study conducted by several respected groups, cited by Glenn Beck is enough for you to dismiss that study as "biased"? Something here is biased, but it isn't the study.

 

No, but it's enough to make me skeptical. What exactly is the control group in this study?

No, but it's enough to make me skeptical. What exactly is the control group in this study?

Opinion surveys have control groups?

Not to say I agree with the implication of the thread, but I'm not sure surveys work that way.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/125312/religious-prejudice-stronger-against-muslims.aspx

 

It's not like Americans don't hate Islam right back.

 

(Make what you will of the poll)

 

Right, since

"Thinking honestly about your feelings, how much prejudice, if any, do you feel toward each of the following religious groups"

is the same as

"Do you approve, disapprove, or have mixed feelings about attacks on civilians in the United States"\

 

 

 

EDIT:

And im not going to read a document that who knows how long it is - much like no one wants to watch a 10 minute video on here. But from the paragraph you quoted I would say that isnt a large enough sample to be accurate, and who did they talk to when taking these samples? Urban and rural isnt enough information on who they talked to. Also probably done from face-to-face interviewing? Is the writer of this document unsure?

 

With that paragraph alone I dont think this is a trustworthy source. Remember theres almost a billion muslims in the world and he interviewed less than 5000

Have you ever taken a course in statistics?

No, but it's enough to make me skeptical. What exactly is the control group in this study?

Opinion surveys have control groups?

Not to say I agree with the implication of the thread, but I'm not sure surveys work that way.

 

He keeps referring to it as a study.

And if you're going to make claims like 10% of Muslims are terrorists, then you'd better have a control. What's the opinion of non-Muslims, or other religions? How do you know there aren't more "terrorists" (LOL at calling them terrorists) in other religions? What were their methods? "Random" isn't specific enough. Why do they think a few thousand is good enough to generalize to hundreds of millions? That's not a representative sample IMO.

 

Which statistic are you extrapolating this "10% are terrorists" claim? Because they never state that in the survey

No, but it's enough to make me skeptical. What exactly is the control group in this study?

Opinion surveys have control groups?

Not to say I agree with the implication of the thread, but I'm not sure surveys work that way.

 

He keeps referring to it as a study.

And if you're going to make claims like 10% of Muslims are terrorists, then you'd better have a control. What's the opinion of non-Muslims, or other religions? How do you know there aren't more "terrorists" (LOL at calling them terrorists) in other religions? What were their methods? "Random" isn't specific enough. Why do they think a few thousand is good enough to generalize to hundreds of millions? That's not a representative sample IMO.

 

Which statistic are you extrapolating this "10% are terrorists" claim? Because they never state that in the survey

 

It is a study because they've compared two sets of data taken at different times.

Here's one: I'll bet the percentage of Christians in America who hate Muslims is greater than the percentage of Muslims in America who hate Americans. I'll bet the percentage of American Atheists and the percentage of American Christians who dislike the current American government is greater than the percentage of American Muslims who do.

 

If Glen Beck uses it, you can bet that there's something wrong with it

Disagree, sorry. You're completely wrong. Views like this are no better than their conservative counterparts, except for the fact that they're not conservative :twss: