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Tip.it and TWR need a jump start.


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#21
Adr1an
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When the system is more of a hybrid to allow for both small and large clans to participate I will surely be asking multiple clan officials to come give it a try.

It is about allowing for PVP and CWA however making pvp options better. About making sure the points system FITS the fight that is going on. There are already bonuses to having pvp fights and full outs.

20v20 can not possibly be house rules but matched opts would be better.

All styles being the norm will only benefit all clans because people will get used to it. Push clans to be better and more organized and not worse. Can any clan say they have become far worse for adding styles to fights?

Rank system based on a hybrid of activity and ranking..... Make it more flowing than RAW but not to the point that its pure activity like it is now. Have it so that of course stronger clans will be higher but if they slack in fighting they can not keep it or rise. Make it so point farming bottom feeders just doesnt get you far ahead and stepping out of your comfort zone and aiming high gets you higher up!

Take the best of all the worlds and combine it into 1.

Clans that I would hope to come would be Solace, CR (active), TR, Forsaken, etc. Adding simply 5-10 more clans that arent necessarily at the top but are stronger can help bridge the gap to possibly asking top clans to give this a try.

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#22
CruelKiller
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I was thinking the other day. Why not instead of points system make it like a knock out rank. I don't know how its called but for example:

Rank #4 declares Rank #1. Rank #4 wins and they get rank #1 while Rank #1 is down to Rank #4. To me it seems to be more competition :S

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#23
Adr1an
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I was thinking the other day. Why not instead of points system make it like a knock out rank. I don't know how its called but for example:

Rank #4 declares Rank #1. Rank #4 wins and they get rank #1 while Rank #1 is down to Rank #4. To me it seems to be more competition :S

That is somewhat how RAW used to be and it wouldnt work. That only works for 1 style of fighting (back then it was full outs). The thing is there are so many different kinds of fights (CWA/PVP, matched/fullout, returning fights, and p2p/f2p) that system would not really work out well.

By giving bonus points for certain things you add more those aspects. Activity will still be key but you can pick and choose.

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#24
andyk47
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problem with bigger clans that come on here, like cr for example, they go and declare on someone but because their size they get forced into rules that arent what they want.

Also the clans on here are much smaller and less active so their clan communities are smaller and thus less active on here. If you look at who posts here theres like 30-40 actives, exclude clan leaders and tip.it staff its about 20-30 people.

That is why these boards get less interest, get a clans community posting then ull get that clan warring more on here.
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#25
The Observer
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I was thinking the other day. Why not instead of points system make it like a knock out rank. I don't know how its called but for example:

Rank #4 declares Rank #1. Rank #4 wins and they get rank #1 while Rank #1 is down to Rank #4. To me it seems to be more competition :S

That is somewhat how RAW used to be and it wouldnt work. That only works for 1 style of fighting (back then it was full outs). The thing is there are so many different kinds of fights (CWA/PVP, matched/fullout, returning fights, and p2p/f2p) that system would not really work out well.

By giving bonus points for certain things you add more those aspects. Activity will still be key but you can pick and choose.


For larger clans a ranking list just isn't something that'll work. It has been tried in the past with RAW (which has a more appealing system), but we all know what happened. The point being, what Tip.it has to do is appeal to more mid-sized or smaller clans to participate in the TWR. It's unique as such so that smaller clans are able to compete more freely rather than get slaughtered if it was a RAW-like list which is shown in its success in the past.

For trying to get more larger clans to post here more often there has to be more incentives to post here rather than on RSC for example.. The Tip.it Tournament was a step in the right direction, however, it didn't really offer any long-term solutions to the ongoing problem which is the sheer inactivity of Tip.it's clan boards.

To clan leaders or clan staff reading this... the best way you can help is by posting topics and replying more often (more notably in the Wars & Run-ins board). For the amount of people who are active here, the number of posts there are nothing more but discouraging. Just remember that if you don't post it yourself, no one else is going to. Activity can only create more activity.

Now about rivalries. I remember there were quite a few in the past,and the amount of activity that it brought the boards. But those have mostly died out and further contributed to the stale atmosphere of the clan section. Unfortunately as well those beefs involved people pushing the boundaries which resulted in them being banned. I suppose Tip.it still has to find its balance.

I suppose now we can ask ourselves, how far have we really gone? Progress has definitely been made. I remember posting here back in late 2005 having the last active thread being a week or two old. A brighter future is ahead, it just needs the community to help support it by its effort.

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#26
Thehitman324
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So for any top clans that frequent these boards what would it take for your clan to become active on tip.it? De-rank Joe as global moderator.

What would it take for your clan to join TWR? read above.

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#27
Deltaer
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If we want tipit to become clan central again (which would be tons of work), one really important thing that has to change is the administration of this forum - Im talking specifically about the moderating.. it's late, so I briefly scanned the topic, and it seems like someone else has mentioned it too. Let me make it clear that I have nothing against the mods here; it just seems like that the way they are told to operate is a bit too high maintenance; threatening to delete posts that are off-topic or mildly offensive, or locking topics for whatever reason, or banning members because of drama (this is the clan world - drama is part of the fun for some people). RSC has always been an 'anything goes' type board - I'm not insisting that tipit goes that far, but perhaps the mods here could relax a bit? Don't we all remember what drove all the clans away in the first place? The mods on tipit!

Secondly, I've always thought that the TWR was a joke - sorry, but it doesn't reflect true clan strength AT ALL. Essentially, all that matters is how much you war. A more hybrid or strength-oriented rankings system needs to be implemented. And the TWR isnt even active at all. It seems like a lot of clans (including Downfall, who used to be the most active on TWR) have pulled away from it.. further puts a crack in its credibility.

Thank god the old wilderness might be coming back - hopefully that scales back the CWA activity... too much of that on tipit :P Think that's another turn off keeping the top clans from coming back.

In reality, it'd be awesome if tipit could go back to its glory days (which unfortunately quickly ended after RS2 was released), but that will take a lot of work.. small steps would be good.. this place just seems too static; do something pleasssseee.. nice to see an active discussion about it though.
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#28
CruelKiller
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I was thinking the other day. Why not instead of points system make it like a knock out rank. I don't know how its called but for example:

Rank #4 declares Rank #1. Rank #4 wins and they get rank #1 while Rank #1 is down to Rank #4. To me it seems to be more competition :S

That is somewhat how RAW used to be and it wouldnt work. That only works for 1 style of fighting (back then it was full outs). The thing is there are so many different kinds of fights (CWA/PVP, matched/fullout, returning fights, and p2p/f2p) that system would not really work out well.

By giving bonus points for certain things you add more those aspects. Activity will still be key but you can pick and choose.

Now about rivalries. I remember there were quite a few in the past,and the amount of activity that it brought the boards. But those have mostly died out and further contributed to the stale atmosphere of the clan section. Unfortunately as well those beefs involved people pushing the boundaries which resulted in them being banned. I suppose Tip.it still has to find its balance.

I remember a lot of posters in this boards that really contributed to it even if they were trolling they still made activity out of it. There hasn't been many Rivalry going in here after the TPR and DV beef. I remember the boards were more active by that time... or maybe its just me.

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#29
das
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If we want tipit to become clan central again (which would be tons of work), one really important thing that has to change is the administration of this forum - Im talking specifically about the moderating.. it's late, so I briefly scanned the topic, and it seems like someone else has mentioned it too. Let me make it clear that I have nothing against the mods here; it just seems like that the way they are told to operate is a bit too high maintenance; threatening to delete posts that are off-topic or mildly offensive, or locking topics for whatever reason, or banning members because of drama (this is the clan world - drama is part of the fun for some people). RSC has always been an 'anything goes' type board - I'm not insisting that tipit goes that far, but perhaps the mods here could relax a bit?

This is something I will look into.

Don't we all remember what drove all the clans away in the first place? The mods on tipit!


Not exactly - I was around then. You had 2 Mods, both who were biased and took criticism piss poorly, to make matters worse, the admin team in 04 didn't care about clans and locked the boards because they were too damn incompetent to actually figure out how to deal with them. Then they realized "clans create work" or something so they came up with bullshit rules like "posting on the half of others" - Basically the idiots banned half of DI within 2 weeks because declaring a war was posting on behalf of a banned leader.

Anyways, if you argued with the mods - you got banned - i got banned myself for it and i can state firmly that

1) We've never banned someone for disagreeing with us or criticizing us. Infact I welcome and encourage intelligent criticism.
2) Our mods do not moderate in favor of one clan or the other - infact they are not allowed to moderate topics involving the clan they are in
3) Our clan staff, and adminstration - does care for the section and enjoy the work

We're always looking too improve, and I will always listen to any arguments - however i'd like examples of us being "too harsh" and not just blanket statements

~Das
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#30
Ankit
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So for any top clans that frequent these boards what would it take for your clan to become active on tip.it?
I think Kimberly and I were the only active posters on Tip.It. If there were more topics to discuss, and the general activity in the forums to pick up then I would probably become more active on Tip.It. Same would probably go to some other Solace members.

What would it take for your clan to join TWR?

Bigger variety of clans of a more challenging difficulty. I don't think Solace would be able to challenge itself with the clans participating in it now. More PvP oriented fights would be cool.

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#31
Adr1an
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So for any top clans that frequent these boards what would it take for your clan to become active on tip.it?
I think Kimberly and I were the only active posters on Tip.It. If there were more topics to discuss, and the general activity in the forums to pick up then I would probably become more active on Tip.It. Same would probably go to some other Solace members.

What would it take for your clan to join TWR?

Bigger variety of clans of a more challenging difficulty. I don't think Solace would be able to challenge itself with the clans participating in it now. More PvP oriented fights would be cool.

Problem with that is someone kinda has to take the first step ya know?

Yea we can get these clans to come and become competitive but who is going to be the first to set the standard.

Will clans ask other clans to come to TWR and test it out?

One thing I wish could be done is that any and all clans that warred had their points count towards the rankings. The rules would be looked at and they would fall under certain categories and the results would be found. No TWR clan can crash any other ones. It would set a community based on respect and such.

Yes this sounds like an ideal world but isnt it kinda what everyone wants? If we all were to agree to it then wouldnt it actually make things nice?

Maybe I am living in an idealistic world but in the end we are in charge of what we do.

Any clan that crashes probably wont care about TWR anyway so figure why the heck not and throw the idea out there.

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#32
Billy Key
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My feeling is that it will take more than fixing the rankings in some way to attract people. When I was a CL I know there were plenty of discussions about what to do with TWR and how to make it more appealing. I don't think a ranking system will do the job though, on RSC people are more interested in saying what their rankings are and generally pay more attention to their own opinion than anything. On top of that, people only care about the top 10 clans, that's as far as the rankings would need to go to be appealing for the people on RSC.

RAW failed because it became inaccurate due to either inactivity from the people updating the rankings, some clans didn't want to fight other clans, clans got bored of losing their rankings to people who they hadn't fought and so on and so forth. What tipit has brings a different problem which is that the big clans don't war each other very often, they normally have PKRI's or at this point crash each other and it's very difficult to rank those things. Not to mention that the losing their ranks to clans they haven't fought problem would rear it's head once again.

Attracting big clans to tipit is going to be difficult because people on RSC are just worried about having somewhere to post their win topics. Unfortunately unless the mods on RSC do something terribly wrong, like the mods on tipit did in the past, bringing the people who post on there is going to be very difficult and may take something new and exciting to draw interest. What that might be I do not know. People like to complain about mods on RSC but they're not nearly bad enough to make a large scale migration back to tipit.

Making TWR into something that would be attractive to big clans may be a step but not enough people worry about being ranked by a 3rd party for it to make the difference some people seem to think it could make.
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#33
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I dont expect it to be magic. Far from it. I do want to take advantage and honestly there are some top clans I do not think would be a good fit for TWR and the community here. The top clans can do their thing but right outside the top 10 there are literally 20-30 clans that could come here. They are not in nearly as much drama and could add variety to TWR. That is the group I would like to ask to join TWR. Actually go to them and say "hey this is what we are offering, these are the rules and the list, anyone in TWR should not be crashing another TWR clan, and it offers p2p/f2p, pvp/cwa, variety"

this is what i want to do. I just want to have a better product to sell as it can use a few tweaks. I will ACTIVELY recruit from RSC the clans that i think would be a good fit here.

Just give feedback so that there is something to work with.

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#34
bravehero12
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Vote bravehero12 for mod

It's nice to see discussion on how to revive tip.it, hope it will happen.

#35
Lovelost
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So for any top clans that frequent these boards what would it take for your clan to become active on tip.it?
I personally am with another few The Titans Members.

What would it take for your clan to join TWR?
I doubt we would join. There are no real challenges onto the TWR listings. If DF/CoR/RSD/VR/EoS all joined it might bring something but it would make Tipit into the outlook of RAW rankings.

#36
_Douglas
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I think one of the major problems is that people here feel that they would be "giving the shaft" to clans who have been here for a long time if they change things. Any given clan has a certain amount of strength, and none of that strength is due to how long a clan has been on this site. If you are trying to make a warring list, make it accurate. There are better places to throw a bone to loyal customers than on the TWR regulations.

Suggestion: Forget having clans sign up for TWR. Forget having clans declare/accept for TWR. Have the TWR team look at each topic that is made in Clan Fights and have that panel determine if the fight is going to be considered for TWR (based on new regulations). Have the panel come to a consensus on an official list. Anyone involved in any TWR-approved topic posted in Clan Fights becomes involved in the TWR list at a level determined by the panel. To advance on the TWR, clans simply would fight just as they do right now, until they convince the panel that they ought to be ranked higher. The panel will have many freedoms, and if they feel a certain clan's activity is so far superior to another that they would rank said clan above the other, then so be it. However, panel member selection must be done carefully and panel members need to be objective about their own clans and rivals. And yes, panel members will argue amongst each other, but that is the point. ;)

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#37
iTzKoNG
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i think its the clans that are in TWR, we need a more options to war.

what options do you suggest?

more variety of clans i meant

#38
Laikrob
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I think one of the major problems is that people here feel that they would be "giving the shaft" to clans who have been here for a long time if they change things. Any given clan has a certain amount of strength, and none of that strength is due to how long a clan has been on this site. If you are trying to make a warring list, make it accurate. There are better places to throw a bone to loyal customers than on the TWR regulations.

Suggestion: Forget having clans sign up for TWR. Forget having clans declare/accept for TWR. Have the TWR team look at each topic that is made in Clan Fights and have that panel determine if the fight is going to be considered for TWR (based on new regulations). Have the panel come to a consensus on an official list. Anyone involved in any TWR-approved topic posted in Clan Fights becomes involved in the TWR list at a level determined by the panel. To advance on the TWR, clans simply would fight just as they do right now, until they convince the panel that they ought to be ranked higher. The panel will have many freedoms, and if they feel a certain clan's activity is so far superior to another that they would rank said clan above the other, then so be it. However, panel member selection must be done carefully and panel members need to be objective about their own clans and rivals. And yes, panel members will argue amongst each other, but that is the point. ;)

I like that suggestion. New perspectives and ideas like this one are good. :thumbup:

You're accusing me of bigotry, how ironic. It's a nice attempt at argument, but your responses are facile and asinine, if not diatribe. Who's arrogant now?


#39
Danny_TeamDan
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I think you should make a topic on RSC Adrian asking if any top clans are even interested in a ranking system/ladder.

I'm sure most of them will say no, due to ranking systems and ladders never being 100% accurate and tons of drama and problems along the way. However, I wouldn't mind seeing Tip.it CD section gain more people and just posting pk trips and wars more here would be great, but cmon who wants to have a set ranking system in which you know their will be flaws and not 100% (won't even be remotely accurate imo)

Like I've said before, why cater to clans that aren't in here? Find out if they even would want a ranking system and how they would want it before you do it and just hope they join because 99% sure most top clans aren't interested and will not join.

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#40
Adr1an
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I think you should make a topic on RSC Adrian asking if any top clans are even interested in a ranking system/ladder.

I'm sure most of them will say no, due to ranking systems and ladders never being 100% accurate and tons of drama and problems along the way. However, I wouldn't mind seeing Tip.it CD section gain more people and just posting pk trips and wars more here would be great, but cmon who wants to have a set ranking system in which you know their will be flaws and not 100% (won't even be remotely accurate imo)

Like I've said before, why cater to clans that aren't in here? Find out if they even would want a ranking system and how they would want it before you do it and just hope they join because 99% sure most top clans aren't interested and will not join.

Lol problem is that I am so outspoken on RSC and the crappy way they moderate things as well as the stupid trolls on there that I am not too liked over there. I have called mods out on 3pp and not backing up their claims of cracking down on flaming and trolling. I have peeved off mods by reporting people for continuously breaking rules.

There is a growing bias on RSC and it is getting worse. I would rather go to leaders one on one and ask them that way as I feel it will help more than posting on RSC. Most will say that kinda stuff sucks. In many ways I do not want top clans here. I would prefer to have clans that are solace and below. The majority of those clans are at least more respectful than the top clans and could provide a decent structure to TWR.

@Doug - I have thrown out that idea as well and gotten declined. I would be all for every war posted on TWR to be thrown into the system and if it wasnt crashed or anything the points are put in. TWR clans would have an unwritten rule that if you are part of the community you do not crash one another. However could the clans be grown up enough to follow this? Probably not....

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