a question about set up

[ccesssu]

there's the prossy and fire cape set up

and the bandos and sw cape set up

 

why do people recommend / claim the second is better? the prayer bonus is pretty much the same and so is the overall strength.. in fact the fire cape even gives a free 1 attack bonus.

 

 

alongside that question:

if i'm praying piety and a protection prayer, how many more prayer pots will [bandos and fire cape] use over [prossy and fire cape]?

[green9090]

Well, Bandos has defense, so that might be part of it.

 

But really, Bandos + fire cape > all.

[Lose No Hope]

Bandos + fire cape > all.

Sums it up pretty well.

[amitoz]

Bandos + Fire Cape is better due to an extremely high prayer bonus being less effective (per prayer point bonus) than a lower bonus.

 

This is due to prayer being exponentially effective, rather than multiplicative, or additive.

[ghjkl]

Bandos + Fire Cape is better due to an extremely high prayer bonus being less effective (per prayer point bonus) than a lower bonus.

 

This is due to prayer being exponentially effective, rather than multiplicative, or additive.

where the hell did you get that prayer bonus is exponential

prayer drain rate is inversely related to prayer bonus

[amitoz]

No it's not...

That would mean SW cape + Bandos > Fire cape + Bandos, or Prossy + SW cape > Fire cape + Bandos, or Fire cape + prossy > Bandos + firecape; which is not possible, for none of these scenarios are true.

 

Stop pulling things from your ass.

[ghjkl]

how about you?

exponential growth doesn't even make sense

[amitoz]

The more PB you have, the less it affects it.

 

Its like a negative exponential curve, as x approaches infinity, each respective distance h is less and less closer to 0.

h= PB, x= effectiveness of said PB, 0 = limit.

 

Of course, this is an extreme example, but this same principle applies to PB as well.

 

DO YOU GET IT NOW?

[Quyneax]

Let it go Losing, amitoz doesn't know what exponential is.

 

OT: Full bandos + sw cape has 6 str 14 prayer (not counting other gear pieces) whereas proselyte + fire cape has 1 attack 4 str 15 prayer. Bandos + fire cape has 1 attack 10 str 4 prayer. 2 str > 1 attack 1 prayer, and the added defence is convenient especially at hellhounds, iron dragons, steel dragons etcerea, as it allows you to tank them, which saves more prayer than the 1 pray bonus every could.

 

Generally, when using protect prayer + turmoil/piety on low-defence stuff (frosts) or at places that are slow to get to (DKS, GWD) you should use a soul wars cape. If a place is fast to get to (nearly every slayer task), you should use a fire cape. If a task has very high defence and you are using a protect prayer, use ardougne cloak 3.

[amitoz]

Let it go Losing, amitoz doesn't know what exponential is.

 

OT: Full bandos + sw cape has 6 str 14 prayer (not counting other gear pieces) whereas proselyte + fire cape has 1 attack 4 str 15 prayer. Bandos + fire cape has 1 attack 10 str 4 prayer. 2 str > 1 attack 1 prayer, and the added defence is convenient especially at hellhounds, iron dragons, steel dragons etcerea, as it allows you to tank them, which saves more prayer than the 1 pray bonus every could.

 

Generally, when using protect prayer + turmoil/piety on low-defence stuff (frosts) or at places that are slow to get to (DKS, GWD) you should use a soul wars cape. If a place is fast to get to (nearly every slayer task), you should use a fire cape. If a task has very high defence and you are using a protect prayer, use ardougne cloak 3.

Please explain it to me, then.

[LitterBug]

The more PB you have, the less it affects it.

 

Its like a negative exponential curve, as x approaches infinity, each respective distance h is less and less closer to 0.

h= PB, x= effectiveness of said PB, 0 = limit.

 

Of course, this is an extreme example, but this same principle applies to PB as well.

 

DO YOU GET IT NOW?

 

Are you dumb?

Do you not understand math at all?

 

Exponentially effective:

Assuming the exponential is 2:

X prayer bonus will last for Y minutes

2X prayer bonus will last for 4Y minutes.

 

This means that you're getting more return per point you add in.

 

Not only is that totally and completely false, it stacks in the opposite direction - that is, with diminishing return.

You're not getting more time for additional prayer - you're getting less.

[amitoz]

Negatively exponential curve, did I not indicate that in my previous post?

 

Negative exponent for example, x^-2 = (1/x^2).

 

I don't see where you're going with this.

[LitterBug]

Let it go Losing, amitoz doesn't know what exponential is.

 

OT: Full bandos + sw cape has 6 str 14 prayer (not counting other gear pieces) whereas proselyte + fire cape has 1 attack 4 str 15 prayer. Bandos + fire cape has 1 attack 10 str 4 prayer. 2 str > 1 attack 1 prayer, and the added defence is convenient especially at hellhounds, iron dragons, steel dragons etcerea, as it allows you to tank them, which saves more prayer than the 1 pray bonus every could.

 

Generally, when using protect prayer + turmoil/piety on low-defence stuff (frosts) or at places that are slow to get to (DKS, GWD) you should use a soul wars cape. If a place is fast to get to (nearly every slayer task), you should use a fire cape. If a task has very high defence and you are using a protect prayer, use ardougne cloak 3.

 

Not to question you, but shouldn't your gear depend on how long you can last as opposed to how close/far something is?

Assuming you can finish the task w/o banking - you should go for optimal str gear

If you can "almost" finish the task w/o banking - you might want to look at SW cape

 

I haven't had that much experience with slayer but what constitute high defense for monsters?

Most of the ones I've received were pretty low defense - I didn't miss too often on them.

 

I figure - wyverns, metal dragons, ? (Just as a curiosity - not that I'll be on them anytime soon)

[LitterBug]

Negatively exponential curve, did I not indicate that in my previous post?

 

Negative exponent for example, x^-2 = (1/x^2).

 

I don't see where you're going with this.

 

I generally tend to mentally block out most of your posts. My mistake.

Just so it's clear - nobody is arguing with you over the fact that Bandos + Fire Cape > Others

Nobody understood where you got the "exponential growth" from

 

You do realize that if your model of negative exponential growth was right - then that means that squareroot2 was right.

If y is proportional to 1/(x^2) - Then, x and y are inversely related.

[Quyneax]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_function

 

Involves the number e.

 

Prayer drain formula is 30/(30 + prayer bonus)*base prayer drain = modified prayer drain.

[LitterBug]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_function

 

Involves the number e.

 

Prayer drain formula is 30/(30 + prayer bonus)*base prayer drain = modified prayer drain.

 

It's a shifted inverse relationship - so squareroot2 was right :P

[Sinkhan]

Negatively exponential curve, did I not indicate that in my previous post?

 

Negative exponent for example, x^-2 = (1/x^2).

 

I don't see where you're going with this.

 

x^-2 does not model PB in any sensical way. Furthermore, a negative exponent does not make it "negatively exponential".

 

Using Quyneax's formula, we get that nice inverse relation that squareroot originally brought up.

[amitoz]

Sorry double post.

[amitoz]

You do realize that if your model of negative exponential growth was right - then that means that squareroot2 was right.

 

 

 

It's a shifted inverse relationship - so squareroot2 was right :P

 

So I was right (WHAT A SURPRISE). I think I deserve an apology.

[LitterBug]

LOL, two things:

 

1.)

If x varies as (1/y)^2 - they're still inversely related

Inversely related: As x goes up, y goes down

 

Inversely related =/= Inversely porportional

 

 

2.)

You were wrong - the function is:

30/(30 + prayer bonus)*base prayer drain which is indeed inversely related albeit a bit skewed.

 

 

So no matter how you look at this entire thread - you are wrong.

Wrong about how prayer bonus affects prayer drain, apparently wrong about what inversely related is, and just in general wrong.

Are you ready to stop talking now, or do you want to keep this nonsense up?

[amitoz]

I was ready to drop it from the start.

 

Why would you say I was right, then say I am wrong?

 

You do realize that if your model of negative exponential growth was right - then that means that squareroot2 was right.

 

It's a shifted inverse relationship - so squareroot2 was right :P

[LitterBug]

You do realize that if your model of negative exponential growth was right - then that means that squareroot2 was right.

 

 

 

It's a shifted inverse relationship - so squareroot2 was right :P

 

So I was right (WHAT A SURPRISE). I think I deserve an apology.

 

Apparently you're also wrong about this.

 

I love how your logic works -

just because a square is a rectangle does not imply a rectangle is a square.

 

Negative exponential means the two variables are inversely related but two variables being inversely related does not imply that two variables are related via negative exponential.

 

Are we done here, or do you want to keep this up?

[squidsquash]

Here's a question for people with Bandos, yesterday I was talking to a guy with maxed melee saying he uses Torags over Bandos because it has way better defense, and Bandos is just good for the strength bonuses. I've never owned Bandos, so I have no opinion on the matter, but I am considering buying it. So, would I be better off sticking to Torags then switching to Bandos?

[amitoz]

^Read my above post.

 

Just a polite FYI, exponential =/= inverse... I thought that was common sense, but apparently not.

[Sinkhan]

You do realize that if your model of negative exponential growth was right - then that means that squareroot2 was right.

 

 

 

It's a shifted inverse relationship - so squareroot2 was right :P

 

So I was right (WHAT A SURPRISE). I think I deserve an apology.

 

Apparently you're also wrong about this.

 

I love how your logic works -

just because a square is a rectangle does not imply a rectangle is a square.

 

Negative exponential means the two variables are inversely related but two variables being inversely related does not imply that two variables are related via negative exponential.

 

Are we done here, or do you want to keep this up?

 

I'd like to take the opportunity now to actually apply what I learned in my logic course:

 

If p, then q.

q

Thus p.

 

Affirming the consequent. Hooray for logical fallacies!