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Guest Rob

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@Venomai: Your study's results seem inconclusive to me, or rather, in need of contextualization.

I cited the Vietnam study to give more support to the statistic you cited earlier: roughly 20-25% of heroin/opiate users become addicted. I'm not making any claims on the population of heroin users in the United States.

 

That isn't a bad stigma, I'd say. It's one based on concern. [...] There's plenty of safety hazards for riding a motor cycle, but there's a perfectly safe way to do it. Yet, that doesn't stop me from worrying about my dad, mom, and little brother whenever they go out on a ride.

How romantic... naïvely thinking the stigma toward opiates is driven by compassion and concern.

 

Try telling your boss or a loved one that you ride motorcycles, or box, or free-climb, or base jump.

 

Then try telling them you occasionally use hard drugs in your free time. And let me know how that goes.

 

Point being, the stigma is composed of a whole lot more than mere compassion/concern.

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And a late response to some stuff on a previous page...

 

Anyway, I don't think the side effects (brain damage) of boxing are as drastic and likely as those of heroin. I don't know what the likeliness of a boxer developing brain damage (of the same magnitude as brain damage resulting from heroin) is, but I don't think it'd be too high.

Depends what side-effects we are talking. Dementia pugilistica ("punch drunk") can be about as debilitating as anything you can get from chronic heroin/opiate use.

 

Ten to 20% of professional boxers suffer from persistent neuropsychiatric sequelae. The following are the most serious consequences of chronic recurrent traumatic brain injury in professional boxers with longer careers (19, 21):

  • motor skills: tremor, dysarthria, Parkinson’s disease, ataxia, spasticity
  • cognition: slowing, memory disorders, dementia
  • experience and behavior: depression, irritability, aggression, criminality, addiction.

Source: Boxing—Acute Complications and Late Sequelae

 

The chance of getting addicted to boxing (addiction meaning unable to physically stop) is 0. Compare that to ~1/4 of heroin users being dependent on the drug, I'd say that's quite a huge difference.

In many ways addiction is as much based on biological, psychological, and social influences as it is physical influences. Sports don't produce physical dependence, but that doesn't mean we should rule out addiction, nor should we underplay the severity of a non-drug addiction.

 

For more information on behavioural addiction:

[hide]

Even as early as 1996, behavioural addictions were already making their way into the literature:

While the term exercise addiction has been largely rejected in favour of, for example, exercise dependence, the association of exercise with addiction stems from Glasser (1976) who differentiated between positive and negative addiction to running, being analogous to commitment and dependence, respectively. [...] While ‘compulsive athleticism” (Yam et al., 1994) presents a cause for concern, and although it is not yet possible to identify, unequivocally the antecedents of this behaviour, it is proposed that a counselling approach to the problem of exercise dependence and associated negative self-perception may be timely.

Source: Exercise dependence and associated disorders: A review

 

Feel free to peruse some of the more recent literature on exercise dependence.

 

Exercise dependence falls under a 'behaviourl addiction', much like pathological gambling, which itself has been compared to drug addiction.

The most severe form of gambling, pathological gambling (PG), is recognized as a mental health condition. [...] This paper will [...] present new brain imaging findings investigating the neural correlates of craving states in PG as compared to those in cocaine dependence.

Source: The neurobiology of pathological gambling and drug addiction

 

Although behavioural and drug addictions are by no means identical, they are certainly comparable. And, depending on the biological, psychological and social factors, certain behavioural addictions very well may be as severe as certain drug dependencies (or even more severe!).

 

There is now a growing movement that views a number of behaviours as potentially addictive including many that do not involve the ingestion of a drug (such as gambling, sex, exercise, videogame playing and Internet use). This paper argues that all addictions consist of a number of distinct common components (salience, mood modification, tolerance, withdrawal, conflict and relapse). The paper argues that addictions are a part of a biopsychosocial process and evidence is growing that excessive behaviours of all types do seem to have many commonalities. It is argued that an eclectic approach to the studying of addictive behaviour appears to be the most pragmatic way forward in the field. Such commonalities may have implications not only for treatment of such behaviours but also for how the general public perceive such behaviours.

Source: A ‘components’ model of addiction within a biopsychosocial framework[/hide]

 

NB: The point of my boxing analogy was not to say that it is equal to drugs. It was to point out that, based on harm and brain damage alone, the public should be as universally mortified by boxing as they are by cocaine or heroin.

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Do you just make the brownies/cake/whatever normally and throw it in?

Wrong. You gather the weed and then throw in a few brownies/cake pieces.

 

:lol:

 

Hey, if it hasn't been tried yet icon_thumbsu.gif

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How romantic... naïvely thinking the stigma toward opiates is driven by compassion and concern.

 

Try telling your boss or a loved one that you ride motorcycles, or box, or free-climb, or base jump.

 

Then try telling them you occasionally use hard drugs in your free time. And let me know how that goes.

 

Point being, the stigma accounts for a whole lot more than mere compassion/concern.

You didn't have to be an [wagon] about it. I'm not a child.

 

And, you totally blew that quote out of context.

 

I think the stigma that's been seen in this thread

As far as I know, no one in this thread has made the claim that they believe all heroin users are stupid junkies without any hope in the world. And we were all rather open to your posts about there being users out there who can use it safely and responsibly (as opposed to saying, "That can't happen, all heroin users are stupid and homeless, they can't think for themselves and figure out a way to use it safely"). That's why I said the stigma in this thread. Because to me, it looks like people were using a lot of examples about heroin users as family members or close friends. The stigma developed was one of "Heroin is really bad, and therefore I wouldn't want so-and-so to use it." I see that as being based on concern.

 

Oh, and if you read a post I posted after that, you'll see that I understand the stigma you're talking about, and I'm in no way claiming that it is based soley on concern/compassion.

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I'm just going to say it, you sounded like a complete [wagon] in that post, and there was really no reason for it. I'm not a [bleep]ing child.

 

And, you totally blew that quote out of context.

 

... The stigma developed was one of "Heroin is really bad, and therefore I wouldn't want so-and-so to use it." I see that as being based on concern.

Sorry to hear you took my post to be some sort of personal attack. And sorry for the miscommunication; I didn't realize we had narrowed things down to the feelings of a few TIF members.

 

 

Anyways, like I said before, social stigma is not based on concern or compassion.

 

What is stigma?

... It is a social construction that involves ... the recognition of difference based on some distinguishing characteristic [and] a consequent devaluation of the person. Goffman (1963) described stigma as a sign or mark that designates the bearer as "spoiled" and therefore as valued less than "normal" people. Stigmatized individuals are regarded as flawed, compromised, and somehow less than fully human.

Source

 

Because of its deviation from what is considered normal, society responds to this [characteristic] with “...interpersonal or collective reactions that serve to ‘isolate’, ‘treat’, ‘correct,’ or ‘punish’ individuals engaged in such behaviour” [schur, 1971, page 24]. As such, the response to stigma is social control [ibid; Lemert, 1972].

Source

 

--

 

Maybe what you mean is that there is no clear/significant social stigma in the last few pages -- and that the posters here seem more concerned with harm reduction than anything.

 

Like you have pointed out, most posters here have been talking about a certain "so-and-so" -- brothers, sisters, loved ones. It's harder to stigmatize your family. Social stigmas are much easier to apply to people you don't know and love.

 

e.g.

Would you hire a former heroin user otherwise suitable for the job?

What about a current albeit "controlled" user?

 

(this question goes for anyone)

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How romantic... naïvely thinking the stigma toward opiates is driven by compassion and concern.

This statement's purpose really couldn't have been anything else besides a jab at me. I mean, really, 'how romantic'?

 

The rest of your post was blunt, but very true.

 

Anyway,

 

Maybe what you mean is that there is no clear/significant social stigma in the last few pages -- and that the posters here seem more concerned with harm reduction than anything.

Yes. And perhaps I misused 'stigma'. Maybe I should have used 'generalization' when speaking about the recent posts in this thread.

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Then use idyllic. Enough said.

 

1.Inclined toward or suggestive of the feeling of excitement and mystery associated with love

- a romantic candlelit dinner

 

There's a reason the above definition is the first, and yours is third. People think of the above definition when they hear romantic. I doubt many first think of the one you quoted. Not my fault.

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Can we stop insulting each other and get back on topic?

Sure thing.

 

Would you hire a former heroin user otherwise suitable for the job?

What about a current albeit "controlled" user?

 

I'd be cautious. 1) Because I wouldn't be able to get a guarantee that they wouldn't fall back on the drug and end up letting it affect their work life. 2) Even if they were controlled, I'd still be cautious because I'd be curious as to why they feel like the need to do the drug. Have they experienced issues in the past which have caused them to occasionally become unstable at times, and therefore resorted to using the drug to make themselves feel happy, relaxed? My question would be something like that to them. There could be other issues (no, I am not saying all heroin users have issues). I know it's extremely analytic, and I'd probably just get a "because it feels good" response. I'm sure an interviewee wouldn't come out and tell me their life problems.

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Then use idyllic. Enough said.

 

1.Inclined toward or suggestive of the feeling of excitement and mystery associated with love

- a romantic candlelit dinner

 

There's a reason the above definition is the first, and yours is third. People think of the above definition when they hear romantic. I doubt many first think of the one you quoted. Not my fault.

But no one's trying to blame anyone...

 

To answer the baking question, THC and cannabinoids aren't water-soluble, but they are fat soluble, so you melt butter in boiling water, add your weed, let simmer for a while, and then you remove the bud with some kind of filter. You put the remaining liquid in the fridge, let it sit, and the THC infused butter will solidify at the top. This is the butter you use for your baking.

Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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How do you guys decide between bonging it and rolling Js ?

 

I can never make up my mind =|

Js are easier to conceal, don't break, are swollowable if 5-0 shows up, less inconspicuous and so can be smoked like you would a cig, and pretty much the best thing if you don't want to be caught. If it's legal or you're not that worried about being caught then go bong. Plus if you're with a group of people most of the time people's bongs will have a story for how they came to make it.

Steam | PM me for BBM PIN

 

Nine naked men is a technological achievement. Quote of 2013.

 

PCGamingWiki - Let's fix PC gaming!

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Kinda building on what I said earlier, if I was an employer, I'd be stuck in a pickle, tbh. I may trust them, but I'm sure a lot of people around me wouldn't. And if I would have management breathing down my back (with the possibility of being fired), I don't know if I would do it. If there was an equally qualified candidate who didn't do heroin applying for the same job, I would probably hire him/her; the main reason being to avoid getting myself in a mess because of the stigma (and because I could never be sure if this fellow/gal wouldn't relapse or anything).

 

Yes, it doesn't make much sense. Heroine just has a terrible reputation that I don't think will be going away any time soon, despite controlled users. And I doubt many people would risk their own reputation/job just to show that they are higher than the stigma.

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Literally.

Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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I thought he was referring to the

 

stuck in a pickle

 

But then again, I am very tired right now.

 

 

 

The other week I played a couple of drinking games and drank straight vodka like a man. I'd like to note that I don't usually drink so it was a new experience for me. Vodka was pretty gross, but it tasted better than cranberry juice, which was the alternative.

 

I'd also like to note that drunk people are disgusting, and I hope I'll never get [cabbage] faced.

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WONGTONG IS THE BEST AND IS MORE SUPERIOR THAN ME

#1 Wongtong stalker.

Im looking for some No Limit soldiers!

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I was thinking the same about the pickle. And I just figured I would ask instead of assuming it was some popular way of taking heroine or something odd like that.

 

And I hear you. Some drunk people really are just nasty. They get so drunk they're spilling beer all over themselves and walking barefoot around, getting all dirty, wiping their face with their dirty hands. Yuck.

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And that is why I always put my liquor in a bottle with a sports cap. Tough to mix though, because it's opaque.

Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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And that is why I always put my liquor in a bottle with a sports cap. Tough to mix though, because it's opaque.

 

I keep imagining you as the guy in your avatar. It's so disconcerting...

PM me for fitocracy invite

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