Cheating in Runescape and the Bigger Picture

[green9090]

I know good people who get straight A's who bot. Also, no need to bring nationality into botting. This thread has no logic.

I bet they botted their straight A's.

[Danqazmlp]

I know good people who get straight A's who bot. Also, no need to bring nationality into botting. This thread has no logic.

I bet they botted their straight A's.

 

Intelligence has no link to morals so that is a pointless thing to bring up. As somebody said a page back, it is desensitising people to cheating. It doesn't suddenly make somebody a law breaker, but if you spend enough time somewhere cheating, lying and scamming, it is logical that will have some effect on your morals elsewhere.

[Snowpelt]

People who justify botters are the same people who say that cheating on tests is acceptable. Hey, if you don't get caught, is anyone really hurt by your cheating? If you don't want to look after your sister because there's that movie you want to go to, what's the harm in lying to your parents and saying that you're heading over to a friend's house to study? Nothing of course, except that these people grow up to be irresponsible adults, who expect to get what they want with minimal effort.

 

Two things:

 

1) Proof?

2) How can you compare hurting people in the real world to having a computer program run laps around a pixel agility course in a game? And why do your examples of poor morality end there? Surely those twisted, degenerate souls who bot must also be rapists and child molesters! I once saw a green dragon bot, and I have no doubt that he also sells speed to 14-year-old kids and cheats on his wife!

 

Like it or not, there are most definitely aspects of this game that are so mind-numbingly boring that I would honestly say that bots are completely justified in some cases. I would probably bot agility and mining if I was guaranteed to get away with it without any repercussions. And before you say something like "BUT OBATRION, OFFIC WERK IS ALSO B0RING SO WHY NOT U B LAZY THERE 2 AND CUT CORNERS BECUZ IT IS BORING AMIRITE?!2?@@," keep in mind that, once again, you are comparing the real world to a GAME.

 

I play Runescape to have fun, and though I wouldn't compromise my account for any reason, I do not blame people for doing it. Of course, I don't have any respect for botted skills, but that's another matter altogether.

 

Now that I've admitted to being a sympathizer to botters, feel free to call me a moral nihilist. :rolleyes:

 

 

I think you miss the point. The point is botting is still cheating, it may only be a game but that doesn't change that its wrong to cheat. People know there cheating and do it anyway, doesn't matter if its a game.

[Obtaurian]

I know good people who get straight A's who bot. Also, no need to bring nationality into botting. This thread has no logic.

I bet they botted their straight A's.

 

Intelligence has no link to morals so that is a pointless thing to bring up. As somebody said a page back, it is desensitising people to cheating. It doesn't suddenly make somebody a law breaker, but if you spend enough time somewhere cheating, lying and scamming, it is logical that will have some effect on your morals elsewhere.

 

Prove that botting desensitizes people, morally. Why is it okay that you can throw around such accusations without proof? If I didn't know better, I'd think you're just trolling. Also, prove that botting is inherently wrong and not just wrong because Jagex says it's wrong.

[Obtaurian]

I think you miss the point. The point is botting is still cheating, it may only be a game but that doesn't change that its wrong to cheat. People know there cheating and do it anyway, doesn't matter if its a game.

 

So what you're saying is that rules are inherently morally righteous because they're the rules. Nice logic fail. :rolleyes:

[TheAncient]

UNICORNS@@@@@

 

Morality and logic should go hand in hand. Morality based purely off of belief is evidence of brainwashing.

[BioIce]

 

I think you miss the point. The point is botting is still cheating, it may only be a game but that doesn't change that its wrong to cheat. People know there cheating and do it anyway, doesn't matter if its a game.

 

Try appeal to authority. Jagex's game, Jagex's rules.

 

People are made up of individuals, and each one has their own idea of right and wrong. That means their idea of what is right may not necessarily be the same as yours.

 

And in a game, if there is rampant cheating at the foundation then it means something in the game mechanics is broken. It's not the players alone, it's also the game at fault.

[dynastyfan0]

Just because someone bots on RuneScape doesn't mean they have no morals in things that count in real life.

 

And I personally don't think that people are dumbing down. It's that more stupid people are breeding. In fact, I think there are more smart people than ever. More people are getting better educations.

To your first point, I see it as just the opposite. Botting and the defense of botting is just a symptom of how our morals are loosening across the board.

 

As for your second point, I don't really know how to answer that. I suppose that you could say stupidity begets stupidity, but does that mean we should sit back and let people wallow in it? Or will you try and change them for the better?

 

You can only try and help people if they are willing to except it. You can't force your help on someone, because that has been the driving factor in so many cases of tyranny. I know that has nothing to do with Runescape, but I am a poli sci major and have become acute to those kinda of statements. I usually feel obligated to critique when i see them.

 

Sorry, really am.

[Tact]

People who justify botters are the same people who say that cheating on tests is acceptable. Hey, if you don't get caught, is anyone really hurt by your cheating? If you don't want to look after your sister because there's that movie you want to go to, what's the harm in lying to your parents and saying that you're heading over to a friend's house to study? Nothing of course, except that these people grow up to be irresponsible adults, who expect to get what they want with minimal effort.

 

Two things:

 

1) Proof?

2) How can you compare hurting people in the real world to having a computer program run laps around a pixel agility course in a game? And why do your examples of poor morality end there? Surely those twisted, degenerate souls who bot must also be rapists and child molesters! I once saw a green dragon bot, and I have no doubt that he also sells speed to 14-year-old kids and cheats on his wife!

 

Like it or not, there are most definitely aspects of this game that are so mind-numbingly boring that I would honestly say that bots are completely justified in some cases. I would probably bot agility and mining if I was guaranteed to get away with it without any repercussions. And before you say something like "BUT OBATRION, OFFIC WERK IS ALSO B0RING SO WHY NOT U B LAZY THERE 2 AND CUT CORNERS BECUZ IT IS BORING AMIRITE?!2?@@," keep in mind that, once again, you are comparing the real world to a GAME.

 

I play Runescape to have fun, and though I wouldn't compromise my account for any reason, I do not blame people for doing it. Of course, I don't have any respect for botted skills, but that's another matter altogether.

 

Now that I've admitted to being a sympathizer to botters, feel free to call me a moral nihilist. :rolleyes:

Perhaps I should have been more clear with my analogy. It may not be the exact same people who defend botting and cheating on a test, but you understand what my point is. The arguments used to defend both are similar in basis.

 

And honestly Obtaurian, I expected better from you than to try and misrepresent me. I am not directly comparing botters and what you quaintly call "rapists and child molesters." What I am saying is that the attitude of people who accept botting as OK is the same attitude that attempts to justify cheating on other things. I don't know why people attempt to inflate the reasons I'm giving into something that sounds like a terrible sound bite:

 

I once saw a green dragon bot, and I have no doubt that he also sells speed to 14-year-old kids and cheats on his wife!

 

Yes Runescape is a game, but my main point still stands. That is, because you value playing Runescape enough to spend some time on the computer playing it, you are presented with certain choices to make. How you choose to play the game reflects the types of values that you have. Or do you seriously believe that people completely detach themselves and assume a new online persona while playing RS?

 

Edit: I'll be replying to the other posts when I have more time.

[Nash]

So does this mean everybody who plays The Sims in this thread DOESNT use the cheat codes that gives you unlimited cash? :rolleyes: Does that make me morally unjust because I like having unlimited cash in The Sims? :ohnoes: Will I go to Cyber Jail?!

 

People treat MMORPG's too much like regular life. It is, as mentioned in the name (mmorpg), still a game. Hence being called a Massively Multi-Player Online GAME.

 

 

There are risks to people botting in MMORPG's; that being their accounts will be banned if caught. Therefore they bot with the full knowledge that theyre risking getting banned.

 

High risk = Less work (risk being ban)

No risk = Alot of work

 

 

The risk of getting banned compensates for their advantage of working less to achieve their skills. Do I personally think thats fair? Not at the moment; the chances of being banned needs to be MUCH higher than it is now. Then I think it would be fair.

 

 

Ive never botted skills, the only thing ive ever done was used an auto-typer back in the World 2 days. I had an advantage over other merchers, I was risking getting in trouble, I DID get in trouble, got temp banned, and then NEVER used it again. Simple as that.

 

If the odds of getting caught were higher, making the risk much higher, then botting wouldnt be as unfair.

 

 

Also, they dont ruin the in-game economy as much as people keep saying :rolleyes: and too be honest, id rather the prices of coal, yews, etc were even cheaper then they already were. If your cutting yews or mining coal because thats your form of making money, im sorry to tell you your doing it all wrong. They havent been good money making methods in YEARS.

 

 

 

Also, all other games have bots, but only the Runescape Community is the ones that seriously whine about it.

 

 

Maplestory had a hacking bot that literally pulled every monster in the area to 1 square and allowed the player hacking/botting to multi-att all of them in 1 square away (safe spotting). Giving them an EXTREMELY unfair advantage over others. They eventually improved their engine and ensured this would never happen again. Problem solved.

 

WoW has bots, but because Blizzard bans them much more frequently than Jagex, the risks match the gain.

 

 

What am I getting at? Its a game, so the only people responsible for keeping this game Bot-Free is the people in charge of it.

[Tact]

Just because someone bots on RuneScape doesn't mean they have no morals in things that count in real life.

 

And I personally don't think that people are dumbing down. It's that more stupid people are breeding. In fact, I think there are more smart people than ever. More people are getting better educations.

To your first point, I see it as just the opposite. Botting and the defense of botting is just a symptom of how our morals are loosening across the board.

 

As for your second point, I don't really know how to answer that. I suppose that you could say stupidity begets stupidity, but does that mean we should sit back and let people wallow in it? Or will you try and change them for the better?

 

You can only try and help people if they are willing to except it. You can't force your help on someone, because that has been the driving factor in some many cases of tyranny. I know that has nothing to do with Runescape, but I am a poli sci major and have become acute to those kinda of statements. I usually feel obligated to critique when i see them.

I'm not using "change" in the sense of forcing people to change. But you can help them change.

 

Regardless, that's not my main point.

[Danqazmlp]

I know good people who get straight A's who bot. Also, no need to bring nationality into botting. This thread has no logic.

I bet they botted their straight A's.

 

Intelligence has no link to morals so that is a pointless thing to bring up. As somebody said a page back, it is desensitising people to cheating. It doesn't suddenly make somebody a law breaker, but if you spend enough time somewhere cheating, lying and scamming, it is logical that will have some effect on your morals elsewhere.

 

Prove that botting desensitizes people, morally. Why is it okay that you can throw around such accusations without proof? If I didn't know better, I'd think you're just trolling. Also, prove that botting is inherently wrong and not just wrong because Jagex says it's wrong.

 

Oh please, don't throw around the trolling accusations so lightly.

 

Botting is wrong because it is cheating. The rules set by Jagex for their game are the rules whether you like them or not. Violating those rules is cheating. Sorry but there really is no way to talk to you if you don't understand that most basic fact.

 

Also, there is no specific proof for botting desensitizing people, as it would be stupid to think there is. However it is a well known fact in psychology that prolonged exposure to something will desensitize a person to that thing. In this case it is cheating. It may not have a huge impact but the impact is there. If you want proof please find it yourself because I'm not wasting my time showing you something you know perfectly well just because you fancy arguing.

[BioIce]

 

How you choose to play the game reflects the types of values that you have. Or do you seriously believe that people completely detach themselves and assume a new online persona while playing RS?

 

Sure it reflects what kind of persona you are playing. So what? The potential for evil has always been there. Doesn't mean players will most certainly slide into botting over time. It'll tempt them or it won't and reinforce their beliefs, but why worry over that unless they're your friends/family/clan? It's their own trial, so to speak. Worry about your own.

 

Unfortunately, trying to help people change sounds like an excuse to force them to change if all they want is for you to leave them be and play your own game.

[All_Is_Great]

I know good people who get straight A's who bot. Also, no need to bring nationality into botting. This thread has no logic.

I bet they botted their straight A's.

 

Intelligence has no link to morals so that is a pointless thing to bring up. As somebody said a page back, it is desensitising people to cheating. It doesn't suddenly make somebody a law breaker, but if you spend enough time somewhere cheating, lying and scamming, it is logical that will have some effect on your morals elsewhere.

 

Also, prove that botting is inherently wrong and not just wrong because Jagex says it's wrong.

 

Umm what? Prove that murdering is inherently wrong and not just because some dude came up with the idea of the right to life. :rolleyes:

[Obtaurian]

Perhaps I should have been more clear with my analogy. It may not be the exact same people who defend botting and cheating on a test, but you understand what my point is. The arguments used to defend both are similar in basis.

 

And honestly Obtaurian, I expected better from you than to try and misrepresent me. I am not directly comparing botters and what you quaintly call "rapists and child molesters." What I am saying is that the attitude of people who accept botting as OK is the same attitude that attempts to justify cheating on other things. I don't know why people attempt to inflate the reasons I'm giving into something that sounds like a terrible sound bite:

 

Oh, so what you're saying is that your analogies are totally okay because they fall into the parameters that you set for this discussion. So as long as I compare botters to people cheating on exams rather than rapists, you'll take me seriously. :rolleyes: Sorry, but you don't get to set the bar; if you claim that botting is a reflection of deeper inherent immorality, you're going to have to accept that your argument includes comparing rape to botting. But this is all trivial considering you have yet to prove that there's a correlation between botting and morality.

 

How you choose to play the game reflects the types of values that you have.

 

Really? I enjoy killing stuff in Runescape. I must be a sociopathic killer in the real world! I mean, you've gone as far as to call botters rapists, so I guess it's okay to accuse slayers and monster hunters of killing people/animals IRL, right? But in all seriousness, I'll reiterate that you really need to step back and re-evaluate your reasons for playing this game. You're clearly not just playing it for fun if you place so much value on it that you'd accuse people of being morally bankrupt for . . . having a computer program . . . run laps for you . . . on a pixel agility course . . . ($*#QY%*Y$HUOQTH%JTJHYHRTyy45^^????????????????????????????????????).

 

Or do you seriously believe that people completely detach themselves and assume a new online persona while playing RS?

 

What? No, I expect people to have some [bleep]ing fun when playing a game. Is that such a difficult concept? Fun? Game?

[muggiwhplar]

Also, there is no specific proof for botting desensitizing people, as it would be stupid to think there is. However it is a well known fact in psychology that prolonged exposure to something will desensitize a person to that thing. In this case it is cheating. It may not have a huge impact but the impact is there.

 

Another well known fact in psychology is that we usually shouldn't rely too heavily on insignificant findings.

[Andy]

I know good people who get straight A's who bot. Also, no need to bring nationality into botting. This thread has no logic.

I bet they botted their straight A's.

 

Intelligence has no link to morals so that is a pointless thing to bring up. As somebody said a page back, it is desensitising people to cheating. It doesn't suddenly make somebody a law breaker, but if you spend enough time somewhere cheating, lying and scamming, it is logical that will have some effect on your morals elsewhere.

 

Also, prove that botting is inherently wrong and not just wrong because Jagex says it's wrong.

 

Umm what? Prove that murdering is inherently wrong and not just because some dude came up with the idea of the right to life. :rolleyes:

are you really gonna compare botting to murder

really

[Ichimaru]

It's interesting how people are so hard-wired to obey. RS rules are meaningless, they have no legal value in the real world. If you break the ToS the only thing Jagex can do is prevent you from using their service. "Cheating" in RS has no important repercussions, it's a GAME!

[BioIce]

 

What? No, I expect people to have some [bleep]ing fun when playing a game. Is that such a difficult concept? Fun? Game?

 

This reminds me of the preachers I'd find on their bots spamming Christianity in the Grand Exchange. I found it amusing, but for them it must've been serious business.

[All_Is_Great]

I know good people who get straight A's who bot. Also, no need to bring nationality into botting. This thread has no logic.

I bet they botted their straight A's.

 

Intelligence has no link to morals so that is a pointless thing to bring up. As somebody said a page back, it is desensitising people to cheating. It doesn't suddenly make somebody a law breaker, but if you spend enough time somewhere cheating, lying and scamming, it is logical that will have some effect on your morals elsewhere.

 

Also, prove that botting is inherently wrong and not just wrong because Jagex says it's wrong.

 

Umm what? Prove that murdering is inherently wrong and not just because some dude came up with the idea of the right to life. :rolleyes:

are you really gonna compare botting to murder

really

 

Fine, prove that theft is inherently wrong and not just because it's part of the law.

[Obtaurian]

I know good people who get straight A's who bot. Also, no need to bring nationality into botting. This thread has no logic.

I bet they botted their straight A's.

 

Intelligence has no link to morals so that is a pointless thing to bring up. As somebody said a page back, it is desensitising people to cheating. It doesn't suddenly make somebody a law breaker, but if you spend enough time somewhere cheating, lying and scamming, it is logical that will have some effect on your morals elsewhere.

 

Also, prove that botting is inherently wrong and not just wrong because Jagex says it's wrong.

 

Umm what? Prove that murdering is inherently wrong and not just because some dude came up with the idea of the right to life. :rolleyes:

 

Are you comparing murder to cheating in a game? My god, what is wrong with you people?

 

EDIT: LOL, now comparing theft in the real world to botting in a game? For my sanity, PLEASE try to at least attempt a coherent, logical argument.

[All_Is_Great]

I'm trying to make a point, but seems like you missed it. Oh well.

[muggiwhplar]

Fine, prove that theft is inherently wrong and not just because it's part of the law.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man :wall:

 

All_Is_Great-- you can't make comparisons like that. It just isn't logical.

[All_Is_Great]

Fine, prove that theft is inherently wrong and not just because it's part of the law.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man :wall:

 

All_Is_Great-- you can't make comparisons like that. It just isn't logical.

 

Just proves how rediculous that question is, doesn't it? Same goes for Obt's question. I can agree with his "Prove cheating in a game leads to a less responsible adult, etc", but his last question just didn't make any sense at all.

 

EDIT: It was not a comparison to equate botting with murder or theft, merely my way of saying "prove botting is inherently wrong" is... well, rediculous.

[Obtaurian]

Fine, prove that theft is inherently wrong and not just because it's part of the law.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man :wall:

 

All_Is_Great-- you can't make comparisons like that. It just isn't logical.

 

Just proves how rediculous that question is, doesn't it? Same goes for Obt's question. I can agree with his "Prove cheating in a game leads to a less responsible adult, etc", but his last question just didn't make any sense at all.

 

Wait, a question of assigning morality to rules is somehow related to your strawman argument? How so?