Israel vs Palestine

[Nomrombom]

Why does the US even support Israel? Why not let Israel/Palestine handle itself?

[The_Gabe]

Why does the US even support Israel? Why not let Israel/Palestine handle itself?

 

Conflicts like that are not usually handled by the 2 parties. There's a reason the United Nation drafted a Security Council.

 

However, this makes this conflict especially hard since Palestine (province or w/e you want to call it) is not a member of the United Nations.

[Zierro]

The thing I don't get is how anyone can think it is okay for the Jews to have invaded Palestine. Yes, they were kicked out a couple thousand years ago. That doesn't give them the right to kick out or attack anyone who is living there.

 

To start off Palestine never existed. Israel didn't invade anybody they fought for their lives in 1947-1948 and again in 1967 when it Enemy were at its borders with blood in their eyes. Israel fought and won its enemy's taking spoils of war with them.

The only reason that Israel hasn't been reconquered by a joint coalition of the Arab League and their allies is because it's in bed with the US (or, rather, in bed with the Republican party). If I were you, I'd start praying that no true Democrats ever get elected in the US, because if ties with Israel were severed, it would only be a matter of time.

 

Until what?

[Nomrombom]

The only reason that Israel hasn't been reconquered by a joint coalition of the Arab League and their allies is because it's in bed with the US (or, rather, in bed with the Republican party). If I were you, I'd start praying that no true Democrats ever get elected in the US, because if ties with Israel were severed, it would only be a matter of time.

 

Until what?

[Zierro]

Don't see how I missed that. I read that sentence like three times too. :shame:

[Nifflin]

Why does the US even support Israel? Why not let Israel/Palestine handle itself?

a) interventionalist attitude

b) hatred of anything linked to islam

c) friends in the middle east means it's easier to go to war with more muslims which means more oil and success for the military industrial complex and corporations

 

That's pretty extreme. It's not about hate or oil, it's about the massive Jewish lobbying group in the US. For example after Obama made his comment about going back to the prewar borders he faced losing 1/3 (IIRC) of his campaign contributions for when he ran for reelection. That's how much money he received from them.

[The_Gabe]

Why does the US even support Israel? Why not let Israel/Palestine handle itself?

a) interventionalist attitude

b) hatred of anything linked to islam

c) friends in the middle east means it's easier to go to war with more muslims which means more oil and success for the military industrial complex and corporations

 

That's pretty extreme. It's not about hate or oil, it's about the massive Jewish lobbying group in the US. For example after Obama made his comment about going back to the prewar borders he faced losing 1/3 (IIRC) of his campaign contributions for when he ran for reelection. That's how much money he received from them.

 

Source?

[ISREAL63]

The term Palestine was first used by Herodotus in "Histories" about 420BC when describing the Middle East. Ironically he didn't mention any sort of Jewish state. In fact the Jewish state is only mentioned in the Jews own writings.

 

Edit: Herodotus is considered accurate becuase he described Egyptian history very well if you cross reference his texts with Egyptian texts. This gives him credibility. Also, there are no references to Judea and Samaria so they clearly belong to a much later era - and the tale of David may be consigned to mythology at least by many scholars as there is little to no reference to it outside Jewish texts.

 

Edit2: The term Philistine, which is closer to the Arabic pronunciation is also used in the Bible. I just don't consider the Bible to be a very good historic source.

 

First off i am not gonna argue with you about religion there is a topic for that here, arguing over that the Bible is or isn't real isn't the argument for this topic. Second i think your proved my point for me, i am not arguing the source of the word, i am saying that the country "Palestine " never existed. The land of the present day Jewish State was ruled by one Empire after another, the only time the country was ever on its own was when in ancient Israel.

 

So there was nobody there when the Jews entered the area known as Palestine/Israel? They didn't displace anyone?

There were no Palestinians there but you fought them off anyway.

 

I didn't say that so please don't put words in my mouth.

 

The only reason that Israel hasn't been reconquered by a joint coalition of the Arab League and their allies is because it's in bed with the US (or, rather, in bed with the Republican party). If I were you, I'd start praying that no true Democrats ever get elected in the US, because if ties with Israel were severed, it would only be a matter of time.

 

You seem to know not know history. Israel was attacked 3 times by the Arab nations each time Israel won the war. The only thing America did in each war is create a cease fire, in which 1967 and 1973 the Arab armies that attacked Israel begged the UN to create a cease fire to stop the Israeli advance.

[TrueBeaver]

The thing I don't get is how anyone can think it is okay for the Jews to have invaded Palestine. Yes, they were kicked out a couple thousand years ago. That doesn't give them the right to kick out or attack anyone who is living there.

 

To start off Palestine never existed. Israel didn't invade anybody they fought for their lives in 1947-1948 and again in 1967 when it Enemy were at its borders with blood in their eyes. Israel fought and won its enemy's taking spoils of war with them.

The only reason that Israel hasn't been reconquered by a joint coalition of the Arab League and their allies is because it's in bed with the US (or, rather, in bed with the Republican party). If I were you, I'd start praying that no true Democrats ever get elected in the US, because if ties with Israel were severed, it would only be a matter of time.

Heh.

 

As George Lenczowski wrote in American Presidents and the Middle East, "[Democratic President Lyndon B.] Johnson's was an unhappy, virtually tragic presidency regarding America's standing and posture in the Middle East ... [Republican President Dwight D.] Eisenhower's standing during the Arab-Israeli Suez Crisis convinced many Middle Eastern moderates that, if not actually lovable, the United States was at least a fair country to deal with; this view of U.S. fairness and impartiality still prevailed during [Democratic President John F.] Kennedy's presidency; but during Lyndon B. Johnson's presidency America's policy took a definite turn in the pro-Israeli direction. The June war of 1967 confirmed this impression, and from 1967 on the United States emerged as the most distrusted if not actually hated country in the Middle East."

 

Then under Nixon and Ford Kissinger pressured Israelis to withdraw from Arab lands after the Yom Kippur War. Then of course Jimmy Carter climbed deeper into bed with Israel, but admittedly was vocal in support of Palestinians' rights. Then Ronald Reagan was elected and appointed people with Arab ties to high-ranking posts and the pro-Israel crowd was nervous before he ultimately elevated Israel to major non-NATO ally at the end of his term. Then Bush 41 called for territory for peace between Israel and Palestine and refused to increase aid to Israel. Then Clinton didn't do much in terms of Israel that I recall. Then Bush 43 was accused of appeasing Palestinians at Israel's expense and did not directly get involved in peace talks. And, of course, Jewish voters tend to vote Democrat and supply 60% of the Democratic Party's contributions. But they're totally in bed with the Republicans.

 

All is not lost, your assertion may be correct in a couple more election cycles.

 

Also, the military strategy the Israelis implemented in their wars, especially the 1967 war, was really impressive.

---

 

Rest of the topic at large:

 

You can't put full blame on Israel for displacing the Palestinians - that was the UN's doing. You can only blame them for not allowing right of return, etc.

 

About the flotilla: The people on the boat had to know Israel wasn't going to let them just sail into Gaza, don't be naive. The UNHRC factfinding mission cited in one of the posts also reported the following:

The Mission notes a certain tension between the political objectives of the flotilla

and its humanitarian objectives. This comes to light the moment that the Government of

Israel made offers to allow the humanitarian aid to be delivered via Israeli ports but under

the supervision of a neutral organization. The Mission also notes that the Gaza Strip does

not possess a deep sea port designed to receive the kind of cargo vessels included in the

flotilla, raising practical logistical questions about the plan to deliver large quantities of aid

by the route chosen. Whilst the Mission is satisfied that the flotilla constituted a serious

attempt to bring essential humanitarian supplies into Gaza, it seems clear that the primary

objective was political, as indeed demonstrated by the decision of those on board the

Rachel Corrie to reject a Government of Ireland-sponsored proposal that the cargo in that

ship to be allowed through Ashdod intact.

Source (#80, page 19)

[ISREAL63]

Where did Israel get the weapons to do that. How about the oil, the rubber, etc. Sure as hell wasn't home made. The only reason Israel has the ability to do that is because their military is heavily funded by the US.

 

In the war of Independence, Israel received weapons from Czechoslovakia. In 1967 the air force were french planes the tanks were American and the guns were Israeli, only partially from America in which Israel bought them. in 1973 America airlifted weapons to Israel. Only one war that Israel was attacked by the Arab armies was supported by the USA. The reason Israel one is because of the brains of it commanders not the USA, the USA only provided weapons once when needed the rest Israel fought alone.

[Nifflin]

The thing I don't get is how anyone can think it is okay for the Jews to have invaded Palestine. Yes, they were kicked out a couple thousand years ago. That doesn't give them the right to kick out or attack anyone who is living there.

 

To start off Palestine never existed. Israel didn't invade anybody they fought for their lives in 1947-1948 and again in 1967 when it Enemy were at its borders with blood in their eyes. Israel fought and won its enemy's taking spoils of war with them.

 

So there was nobody there when the Jews entered the area known as Palestine/Israel? They didn't displace anyone?

 

Nobody forced anyone to do anything.

 

I already gave multiple examples of Zionists forcing Palestinians off their lands. Your choice if you ignore them.

 

 

Why does the US even support Israel? Why not let Israel/Palestine handle itself?

a) interventionalist attitude

b) hatred of anything linked to islam

c) friends in the middle east means it's easier to go to war with more muslims which means more oil and success for the military industrial complex and corporations

 

That's pretty extreme. It's not about hate or oil, it's about the massive Jewish lobbying group in the US. For example after Obama made his comment about going back to the prewar borders he faced losing 1/3 (IIRC) of his campaign contributions for when he ran for reelection. That's how much money he received from them.

 

Source?

 

I'm referring to the AIPAC. Here is some info about them.

 

AIPAC's stated purpose is to lobby the Congress of the United States on issues and legislation related to Israel. AIPAC regularly meets with members of Congress and holds events where it can share its views. According to The Washington Post, "money is an important part of the equation." The Washington Post states that AIPAC's "web site, which details how members of Congress voted on AIPAC's key issues, and the AIPAC Insider, a glossy periodical that handicaps close political races, are scrutinized by thousands of potential donors. Pro-Israel interests have contributed $56.8 million in individual, group, and soft money donations to federal candidates and party committees since 1990, according to the non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics. Between the 2000 and the 2004 elections, the 50 members of AIPAC's board donated an average of $72,000 each to campaigns and political action committees (because there are limits on contributions from individuals."

 

One of numerous Jewish lobbying group in America.

 

The term Palestine was first used by Herodotus in "Histories" about 420BC when describing the Middle East. Ironically he didn't mention any sort of Jewish state. In fact the Jewish state is only mentioned in the Jews own writings.

 

Edit: Herodotus is considered accurate becuase he described Egyptian history very well if you cross reference his texts with Egyptian texts. This gives him credibility. Also, there are no references to Judea and Samaria so they clearly belong to a much later era - and the tale of David may be consigned to mythology at least by many scholars as there is little to no reference to it outside Jewish texts.

 

Edit2: The term Philistine, which is closer to the Arabic pronunciation is also used in the Bible. I just don't consider the Bible to be a very good historic source.

 

First off i am not gonna argue with you about religion there is a topic for that here, arguing over that the Bible is or isn't real isn't the argument for this topic. Second i think your proved my point for me, i am not arguing the source of the word, i am saying that the country "Palestine " never existed. The land of the present day Jewish State was ruled by one Empire after another, the only time the country was ever on its own was when in ancient Israel.

 

Actually, Herodotus refers to a state of Palestine in Histories which he wrote in 420BC. There is no mention of a state of Israel. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.

[ISREAL63]

I already gave multiple examples of Zionists forcing Palestinians off their lands. Your choice if you ignore them.

 

You did and we replied and you change the subject without replying to our reply. So actually you chose to ignore the reply not The Gabe. So why don't you go back and answer our reply's to it, instead of lieing and blaming us for what you did go back and fix your mistake.

 

Actually, Herodotus refers to a state of Palestine in Histories which he wrote in 420BC. There is no mention of a state of Israel. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.

 

Could you give a source? Anyways the Persian empire was in charge of the land during 550330 BC So i am not sure how there was a country there while the Persian Empire was there. So i will say again There never was a country called Palestine .

[Nifflin]

I already gave multiple examples of Zionists forcing Palestinians off their lands. Your choice if you ignore them.

 

You did and we replied and you change the subject without replying to our reply. So actually you chose to ignore the reply not The Gabe. So why don't you go back and answer our reply's to it, instead of lieing and blaming us for what you did go back and fix your mistake.

 

Well before there was a lot of evidence given. Exactly what type of evidence would suffice for you? We gave pictures, videos, personal testimonies, records from international organizations including UN organizations.

 

Should I go to my friends, photocopy the deed he still has to the land that was stolen from him. Go on Google Earth and show the settlement that currently occupies that land?

 

Das replied to that stuff so I didn't feel the need to. I can go back a few pages and drag it back up if you REALLY want.

 

Actually, Herodotus refers to a state of Palestine in Histories which he wrote in 420BC. There is no mention of a state of Israel. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.

 

Could you give a source? Anyways the Persian empire was in charge of the land during 550–330 BC So i am not sure how there was a country there while the Persian Empire was there. So i will say again There never was a country called Palestine .

 

I did, it's in Histories. That's the name of his writings. The originals are in Ancient Greek of course but I can post them here. Just ask.

 

Edit: Refereed to as the Land of Philistine inhabited by the Philistines. Palestinian is the English word for them. The Arabic and original word is Philistine/Philistini.

[ISREAL63]

That's very true, but then again it could be argued that those "Arab armies" were more the half-hearted participation of those that had to be, but did not want to be, involved. If you think that Israel minus the protection of the US could stand against a joint force of armies such as Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc. with full unlimited warfare, then you are sorely mistaken.

 

Check globalfirepower.com - Turkey, Egypt, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia all make the top 30 in military strength, with Turkey ranked 10 compared to Israel's rank 11.

 

So how do you explain Israels victory in 1947/1967 that was won without America helping. Israel NEVER fought Turkey and Pakistan. Turkey has always been our Allie in till recently, Iran never directly attack Israel and in till a few decades ago they were also out Allie. Israel has the third Most elite unit in the world no Arab country on there, Also the number 2 up there The Nay Seals underwent training by the Israeli Elite.

 

Well before there was a lot of evidence given. Exactly what type of evidence would suffice for you? We gave pictures, videos, personal testimonies, records for international organizations including UN organizations.

Should I go to my friends, photocopy the deed he still has to the land that was stolen from him. Go on Google Earth and show the settlement that currently occupies that land?

Das replied to that stuff so I didn't feel the need to. I can go back a few pages and drag it back up if you REALLY want.

 

Actually you didn't give anything you said except for a personal testimony from your friend.

 

I did, it's in Histories. That's the name of his writings. The originals are in Ancient Greek of course but I can post them here. Just ask.

 

Please post a link a am not going to go on a goose chase for you.

[ISREAL63]

sorry double post internet lagging

[ISREAL63]

So how do you explain Israels victory in 1947/1967 that was won without America helping. Israel NEVER fought Turkey and Pakistan. Turkey has always been our Allie in till recently, Iran never directly attack Israel and in till a few decades ago they were also out Allie. Israel has the third Most elite unit in the world no Arab country on there, Also the number 2 up there The Nay Seals underwent training by the Israeli Elite.

Wow, I guess you can't read. I'll explain it again.

 

Israel is currently protected by the US. The past is irrelevant. I am talking about right now.

There are armies as powerful if not more powerful than Israel's that are currently controlled by governments with unfriendly attitudes towards Israel. Again, I am talking about right now. Not 1948, not 1967, RIGHT NOW.

It doesn't matter if they "were" your allies. They aren't now, and I'm talking about now.

Thank you for the irrelevant factoids from a random listverse website with no citations. Unfortunately, that has absolutely no bearing on the discussion we're having.

 

What I am saying is that, right now, if Israel were to lose its "US Protected" status, it would be up [cabbage] creek without a paddle, because it's stepped on a lot of toes. Israel alone (right now) would have no chance in unlimited warfare with the Arab League and Turkey - and that could happen very easily if the US stopped supporting Israel.

 

First off you can never say the past is irrelevant. Israel defeated the Arab Armies of the World 3 Times that is a fact. Israel can do it again it already faced those odds and won

[Nifflin]

Well before there was a lot of evidence given. Exactly what type of evidence would suffice for you? We gave pictures, videos, personal testimonies, records for international organizations including UN organizations.

Should I go to my friends, photocopy the deed he still has to the land that was stolen from him. Go on Google Earth and show the settlement that currently occupies that land?

Das replied to that stuff so I didn't feel the need to. I can go back a few pages and drag it back up if you REALLY want.

 

Actually you didn't give anything you said except for a personal testimony from your friend.

 

Well, here are some links then. And videos if you're a visual person.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVFzTCKSerI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLe1MrVfoT0&feature=related

 

General Info on the Illegal Settlements

Criticism of Israeli treatment of Palestinian Children and Illegal Settlement Activity

UN slams Israel over illegal settlements

 

A few reports from international organizations;

 

Human Rights Watch (more on their website)

Link on Treatment of Palestinians as Second Class Citizens (Human Rights Watch)Houses and Property Destruction (Human Rights Watch)

Destruction of homes (Human Rights Watch)

Mass Illegal Demolitions in the Gaza Strip (Human Rights Watch)

 

Amnesty International (more on their website)

Army Destroys Homes

UN Report on Illegal Home Destruction (Submitted to the HRC)

llegal Settlements Threaten Human Rights

 

And some UN resolutions, can't find the links for all of it.

 

UN General Assembly resolution 39/146, 14 December 1984; UN Security Council Resolution 446, 22 March 1979; and International Court of Justice Advisory Opinion, 9 July 2004, Legal Consequences of the Construction of a Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, para 120

 

Edit: I stuck to UN and other international organization sources but there is a lot more out there.

Edit2: I don't need to link you to Histories. It's more or less the oldest history book ever. I mean it earned Herodotus the title "father of history."

[ISREAL63]

Nifllin,

 

Egypt started the six day war in which israel won. Conquered the West bank. It is normal to keep some land that you won in war, the USA did it in Puerto Rico. SO the i don't see the problem with Israel building homes on its own Land.

 

UN human rights chief urges Hamas to halt executions

List of Palestinian Terrorist Groups

Major Terrorist Attacks in Israel

 

In 1948 Egypt expelled 75,000 Jews from there home, 37,395 Jews of them went to Israel. Vise versa 7,000 Arabs went to Egypt. In Lebanon 6,000 Jews were kicked at of their homes of which 4,032 Jews went to Israel. 100,000 Arabs went to Lebanon. In Syria 30,000 Jews were forced to flee with clothes on their backs of which 8,523 reached Israel. 50,000 Arabs fled to Syria. In Iraq 150,000 Jews were forced to leave, 129,539 Jews went to Israel. 4,000 Arabs went to Iraq. Morocco 265,000 Jews were expelled; Algeria 140,000 Jews expelled, Tunisia 105,000 Jews Expelled, Libya 38,000 Expelled, Iran 100,000 Jews fled, Afghanistan 5,000 Jews, Pakistan 2,000 Jews, Yemen 63,000 Jews Expelled and from Ethiopia 23,270 Jews. In total 826,000 Palestinian Refugees and 1,002,270 Jewish Refugees.

Most Jewish Refugees in the Arab World went to Israel after having their money and property confiscated. They were absorbed into the society and became full Israeli citizens and an integral part of the state. This is in contrast to the Palestinians refugees who never received citizenship or rights from the above Arab States. Except from Jordan which offered its Palestinians citizenship in which they didnt want it. The other places where they went to, are places that expelled its Jewish inhabitants, in which Israel gave them citizenship. So why cant they do the same, they kicked out Jews and they cant take in Refugee? This sounds fair.

 

 

First off you can never say the past is irrelevant. Israel defeated the Arab Armies of the World 3 Times that is a fact. Israel can do it again it already faced those odds and won

It's irrelevant and that is a fact. If I knocked Mike Tyson unconscious when he was 10 and then fought him again right now, I am not guaranteed victory.

 

Apparently you are unable to comprehend the fact that the world has drastically changed since 1973. Times change. Yes, Israel faced those odds and won - 40 years ago. A war between what would essentially be the entire Muslim world versus Israel could only have once conclusion now, that is an Israeli defeat.

 

You're only argument is that Israel has been successful before in what was in reality a completely different set of circumstances. I have shown you that there are plenty of armies that can stand up against Israel, and you just keep saying that they lost 40 years ago. You are actually taking the most ignorant, bigoted stance I have ever seen on this forum.

 

It is not a irrelevant fact. The Israeli armies is 10times Better then it was in 1967. Unlike the Arab armies that attacked Israel which have only gotten worse do to the fact their main supporter is gone (Soviet Union). So it is relevant. Israel can and will fight off its enemy if it ever comes to it.

[das]

Puerto Rico is an "unincorporated territory" of the United States. You cannot compare it to the west bank..lmao.

The U.S. Supreme Court's Insular Cases defined that as a :"a territory appurtenant and belonging to the United States, but not a part of the United States."

[das1330]

Puerto Rico is an "unincorporated territory" of the United States. You cannot compare it to the west bank..lmao.

The U.S. Supreme Court's Insular Cases defined that as a :"a territory appurtenant and belonging to the United States, but not a part of the United States."

 

And one which has repeatedly voted to continue it's status as a US territory when given the option of independence or statehood.

[ISREAL63]

Puerto Rico is an "unincorporated territory" of the United States. You cannot compare it to the west bank..lmao.

The U.S. Supreme Court's Insular Cases defined that as a :"a territory appurtenant and belonging to the United States, but not a part of the United States."

 

 

Puerto Rico is an "unincorporated territory" of the United States. You cannot compare it to the west bank..lmao.

The U.S. Supreme Court's Insular Cases defined that as a :"a territory appurtenant and belonging to the United States, but not a part of the United States."

 

And one which has repeatedly voted to continue it's status as a US territory when given the option of independence or statehood.

 

I am sorry Puerto Rico wasn't a good example

[Nifflin]

Nifllin,

 

Egypt started the six day war in which israel won. Conquered the West bank. It is normal to keep some land that you won in war, the USA did it in Puerto Rico. SO the i don't see the problem with Israel building homes on its own Land.

 

UN human rights chief urges Hamas to halt executions

List of Palestinian Terrorist Groups

Major Terrorist Attacks in Israel

 

In 1948 Egypt expelled 75,000 Jews from there home, 37,395 Jews of them went to Israel. Vise versa 7,000 Arabs went to Egypt. In Lebanon 6,000 Jews were kicked at of their homes of which 4,032 Jews went to Israel. 100,000 Arabs went to Lebanon. In Syria 30,000 Jews were forced to flee with clothes on their backs of which 8,523 reached Israel. 50,000 Arabs fled to Syria. In Iraq 150,000 Jews were forced to leave, 129,539 Jews went to Israel. 4,000 Arabs went to Iraq. Morocco 265,000 Jews were expelled; Algeria 140,000 Jews expelled, Tunisia 105,000 Jews Expelled, Libya 38,000 Expelled, Iran 100,000 Jews fled, Afghanistan 5,000 Jews, Pakistan 2,000 Jews, Yemen 63,000 Jews Expelled and from Ethiopia 23,270 Jews. In total 826,000 Palestinian Refugees and 1,002,270 Jewish Refugees.

Most Jewish Refugees in the Arab World went to Israel after having their money and property confiscated. They were absorbed into the society and became full Israeli citizens and an integral part of the state. This is in contrast to the Palestinians refugees who never received citizenship or rights from the above Arab States. Except from Jordan which offered its Palestinians citizenship in which they didnt want it. The other places where they went to, are places that expelled its Jewish inhabitants, in which Israel gave them citizenship. So why cant they do the same, they kicked out Jews and they cant take in Refugee? This sounds fair.

 

 

 

First, if Egypt started the Six Day War then why would Israel keep Palestine. Makes no sense, Palestine isn't part of Egypt. Anyways, my links were about settlement demolishing which you said was only used against terrorists. Those links I posted show it is used against civilians long after the war.

 

Now you argue that it's actually okay to use against civilians, but for another reason. Get your case straight.

 

Then you give me some irrelevant links, nothing to do with house destruction. Two of them I would like to point out are from Jewish/Israeli organizations (biased to the discussion we are having) and the UN one was from the HRC who I cited multiple times. The funny thing is the UN one isn't even about Israel and Palestine but about the use of the death sentence in Palestinian internal affairs. Not really relevant to the discussion.

 

Then you give me some statistics. Again, how is this relevant? It doesn't dispute the fact that Israeli settlements break international law. You're arguing that because Israelis were abused (conceding this for the point of debate, though it could be argued against) in other parts of the Middle East then they have the right to abuse the Palestinians? Doesn't that just perpetuate the cycle of violence? Is that the Israeli way? They got abused so they have the right to abuse random people?

 

Like that's the equivalent of saying that since a robber stole my TV then I'm allowed to take any TV in the neighborhood and that's okay. If the owner resists I can shoot them too.

[ISREAL63]

Nifllin,

 

Egypt started the six day war in which israel won. Conquered the West bank. It is normal to keep some land that you won in war, the USA did it in Puerto Rico. SO the i don't see the problem with Israel building homes on its own Land.

 

UN human rights chief urges Hamas to halt executions

List of Palestinian Terrorist Groups

Major Terrorist Attacks in Israel

 

In 1948 Egypt expelled 75,000 Jews from there home, 37,395 Jews of them went to Israel. Vise versa 7,000 Arabs went to Egypt. In Lebanon 6,000 Jews were kicked at of their homes of which 4,032 Jews went to Israel. 100,000 Arabs went to Lebanon. In Syria 30,000 Jews were forced to flee with clothes on their backs of which 8,523 reached Israel. 50,000 Arabs fled to Syria. In Iraq 150,000 Jews were forced to leave, 129,539 Jews went to Israel. 4,000 Arabs went to Iraq. Morocco 265,000 Jews were expelled; Algeria 140,000 Jews expelled, Tunisia 105,000 Jews Expelled, Libya 38,000 Expelled, Iran 100,000 Jews fled, Afghanistan 5,000 Jews, Pakistan 2,000 Jews, Yemen 63,000 Jews Expelled and from Ethiopia 23,270 Jews. In total 826,000 Palestinian Refugees and 1,002,270 Jewish Refugees.

Most Jewish Refugees in the Arab World went to Israel after having their money and property confiscated. They were absorbed into the society and became full Israeli citizens and an integral part of the state. This is in contrast to the Palestinians refugees who never received citizenship or rights from the above Arab States. Except from Jordan which offered its Palestinians citizenship in which they didnt want it. The other places where they went to, are places that expelled its Jewish inhabitants, in which Israel gave them citizenship. So why cant they do the same, they kicked out Jews and they cant take in Refugee? This sounds fair.

 

 

 

First, if Egypt started the Six Day War then why would Israel keep Palestine. Makes no sense, Palestine isn't part of Egypt. Anyways, my links were about settlement demolishing which you said was only used against terrorists. Those links I posted show it is used against civilians long after the war.

 

Now you argue that it's actually okay to use against civilians, but for another reason. Get your case straight.

 

Then you give me some irrelevant links, nothing to do with house destruction. Two of them I would like to point out are from Jewish/Israeli organizations (biased to the discussion we are having) and the UN one was from the HRC who I cited multiple times. The funny thing is the UN one isn't even about Israel and Palestine but about the use of the death sentence in Palestinian internal affairs. Not really relevant to the discussion.

 

Then you give me some statistics. Again, how is this relevant? It doesn't dispute the fact that Israeli settlements break international law. You're arguing that because Israelis were abused (conceding this for the point of debate, though it could be argued against) in other parts of the Middle East then they have the right to abuse the Palestinians? Doesn't that just perpetuate the cycle of violence? Is that the Israeli way? They got abused so they have the right to abuse random people?

 

Like that's the equivalent of saying that since a robber stole my TV then I'm allowed to take any TV in the neighborhood and that's okay. If the owner resists I can shoot them too.

 

What i said was that Israel won a war its enemy's started it won it and got the spoils of war the The Gaza Strip from Egypt. and the West bank from Jordan.

 

All your links are from Palestinian biased to the discussion we are having so it only fair i do the same.

 

The Statics are relevant to the refugee problem which you brought up again.

 

 

 

It is not a irrelevant fact. The Israeli armies is 10times Better then it was in 1967. Unlike the Arab armies that attacked Israel which have only gotten worse do to the fact their main supporter is gone (Soviet Union). So it is relevant. Israel can and will fight off its enemy if it ever comes to it.

Let's compare the Turkish and Israeli militaries, shall we?

 

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp

 

Israel and Turkey are not at, nor will they ever be so why don't you bring up something relevant to this topic. If you want create a topic called Israel vs Turkey. :wink:

[ISREAL63]

It would not be far fetched to imply (as I have been, but apparently you can't read) that, given the severing of ties between the US and Israel, Turkey could potentially go to war with Israel.

 

Why don't you get back on topic instead of talking about something irrelevant and will never happen if you want create a topic call turkey otherwise get back on subject

[The_Gabe]

 

It is not a irrelevant fact. The Israeli armies is 10times Better then it was in 1967. Unlike the Arab armies that attacked Israel which have only gotten worse do to the fact their main supporter is gone (Soviet Union). So it is relevant. Israel can and will fight off its enemy if it ever comes to it.

Let's compare the Turkish and Israeli militaries, shall we?

 

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp

 

Israel and Turkey are not at, nor will they ever be so why don't you bring up something relevant to this topic. If you want create a topic called Israel vs Turkey. :wink:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Turkey_relations#Criticism_of_Israeli_policy

 

It would not be far fetched to imply (as I have been, but apparently you can't read) that, given the severing of ties between the US and Israel, Turkey could potentially go to war with Israel.

 

All your links are from Palestinian biased

Says the guy with Israel in his name.

 

I am not going to take Turkey seriously in this matter at all. Turkey is one of the most hypocritical countries, seeing as they are and have been oppressing Kurds for many decades.

 

If Turkey going to war with Israel, it's not going to be a 2 party war. That's for sure.