Q

[Quyneax]

M&B is still the same, I haven't made anything for it recently. It's typically a game I play for a month, start fiddling, am not able to change what I want (due to it being hardcoded) and then quitting again :P.

[Hedgehog]

http://forum.tip.it/topic/309457-merediths-blug/page__view__findpost__p__5266521

 

You might find this interesting.

 

Also, bump.

[Vezon Dash]

http://forum.tip.it/topic/309457-merediths-blug/page__view__findpost__p__5266521

 

You might find this interesting.

 

Also, bump.

 

Thats like a 2-3% change? Not bad.

[Quyneax]

(late reply, must've missed this earlier)

 

Saves you some 3% of a torstol seed per patch, e.g. 5-10k? That's pretty good.

 

In game-related news, I just finished all the achievements for Monster's Den 3. Time to wait for 4 :D.

[Quyneax]

Thought I'd post here rather than derailing the Combat Update thread more:

 

15k lp from armour and only 990 lp from hp is totally lame. You suck, Jagex.

The new combat level is just as inaccurate as the old, and WTF removing SUMMONING*!?!

Penalizing armour switching sucks as well.

Penalizing training on low-level mobs sucks, again.

Adrenaline is just like special attack, it just fills faster and empties more often. Could easily just make regular special restore 1%/second and be done with it.

 

Also, why the big numbers :(. RS was more fun when +1 max hit meant something :( (borrowing rune battleaxe to hit a 14! omg).

 

So far the update seems to have two upsides: cool graphics and hotkeys. The rest, meh.

 

*I know it's not removed, but making it unimportant enough that it's removed from combat level & "a separate overhaul later on" means steel titans will be useless for a year after that update :(.

[Sir_Squab]

Thought I'd post here rather than derailing the Combat Update thread more:

 

15k lp from armour and only 990 lp from hp is totally lame. You suck, Jagex.

The new combat level is just as inaccurate as the old, and WTF removing SUMMONING*!?!

Penalizing armour switching sucks as well.

Penalizing training on low-level mobs sucks, again.

Adrenaline is just like special attack, it just fills faster and empties more often. Could easily just make regular special restore 1%/second and be done with it.

 

Also, why the big numbers :(. RS was more fun when +1 max hit meant something :( (borrowing rune battleaxe to hit a 14! omg).

 

So far the update seems to have two upsides: cool graphics and hotkeys. The rest, meh.

 

*I know it's not removed, but making it unimportant enough that it's removed from combat level & "a separate overhaul later on" means steel titans will be useless for a year after that update :(.

 

Let's see. I don't think the hp/lp thing is bad, because it's hard to NOT train hp/lp, and there's no reward for doing so. That being said, puts hp/lp in the background because the level won't really matter. Easy fix is HP req on some of the higher LP boosting armor.

 

The combat formula needs to include prayer to be accurate. Not sure about about summoning - depends on how good steel titans remain. Definitely an issue there.

 

Penalizing armour switching - might suck, but I understand it. If the combat triangle is to actually matter, Jagex needs to penalize armour switching. Wonder how this will affect TDs tho, since you NEED multiple combat styles to kill them. On a related note, will claws keep their spec or be useless?

 

In theory, penalizing training on low-level mobs makes sense. From a lore point of view, once you can easily slaughter hundreds or thousands of goblins in a day, you won't really learn from killing them. And keeping high levels away from low level monsters doesn't seem like a bad thing. Keep in mind, Jagex will probably also redo a lot of monsters combat levels. So you should wait and see on this one.

 

The thing about adrenaline, is it's designed so you can't just rush into combat and use a crazy ass spec. You build up to it. It prevents rushing. Also, it's probably better for the overall health of the game to have this adrenaline system then a system where you need to spend 12m on claws for the really awesome spec - makes awesome specs available to a lot more people. Not to mention awesome special attacks aren't essentially limited to melee.

 

As for numbers... meh. You're reasoning seems mostly nostalgia. In my mind, there isn't that much difference between hitting 1k on something with 99k health and hitting 1 on something with 99 health. It's just something new to get used to.

 

Overall, the major things I have against it are prayer/summ not being part of combat level and that combat familiars will likely be useless for a while.

[Quyneax]

Let's see. I don't think the hp/lp thing is bad, because it's hard to NOT train hp/lp, and there's no reward for doing so. That being said, puts hp/lp in the background because the level won't really matter. Easy fix is HP req on some of the higher LP boosting armor.

Except that the reward is higher lp... right now, lp just goes up as you level combat. Defence and hp cover two totally different areas like attack and strength cover two different areas. That's being changed for no reason. The ratio of 15:1 means that hp will either become useless, or it will become a secondary requirement to all kinds of armour and therefore act like a second defence skill except that it's slow as hell to train.

 

Penalizing armour switching - might suck, but I understand it. If the combat triangle is to actually matter, Jagex needs to penalize armour switching.

Untrue. Armour switching is a natural consequence of the combat triangle. The only way a ranger can deal with a meleer is switching to magic. If you take that away, there is no more skill to combat - it's just mage bashes melee, good fight, see you again and if you come back in ranged gear, I took that into account and I'm now a meleer. E.g. rock-paper-scissors.

 

A 'good' reason to penalize armour switching is that you want to make combat slower overall. But I don't see why you would want to do that, because it's already quite slow.

 

In theory, penalizing training on low-level mobs makes sense. From a lore point of view, once you can easily slaughter hundreds or thousands of goblins in a day, you won't really learn from killing them. And keeping high levels away from low level monsters doesn't seem like a bad thing. Keep in mind, Jagex will probably also redo a lot of monsters combat levels. So you should wait and see on this one.

From a lore point of view, you can kill a couple of goblins in a day. Scale theory right there.

 

Also, how are you going to practice your particular fighting style if you're at risk of being killed? From a lore point of view, we should be fighting in arenas with wooden swords 99% of the time.

 

Also, the entire thing is backwards. It shouldn't be:

> Is high level

> Low level monsters provide better raw xp/hr

> Penalty for training on low level

= Train on high level

 

It should instead be:

> Is high level

> Is capable of killing high level monsters

> High level monsters drop more loot/unique items/have other advantages

= Train on high level

 

Any time you create a mechanic to prevent people from training on low levels, you've designed the game wrong.

 

The thing about adrenaline, is it's designed so you can't just rush into combat and use a crazy ass spec. You build up to it. It prevents rushing. Also, it's probably better for the overall health of the game to have this adrenaline system then a system where you need to spend 12m on claws for the really awesome spec - makes awesome specs available to a lot more people. Not to mention awesome special attacks aren't essentially limited to melee.

Rushing is the most sensible way of combat, from a lore perspective >.>. Ever watched a fencing match? They do 5-10 seconds of fighting before one scores a hit. When you score a hit, it's over. That's how it works - one dragon claw to the gut and you're a goner. Remember that dragon is probably several factors stronger than steel or even mithril, probably enchanted and claws are actually body parts of tormented demons. When I'm taking a walk in a forest of charred trees, and you jump from behind a tree brandishing bright red foot-long claws wrenched from the body of a demon that was previously thought to be impossible to actually bind to this plane, and you put them in eight vital organs over the course of three seconds, I think I deserve to be dead or dying, thank you very much.

 

As for numbers... meh. You're reasoning seems mostly nostalgia. In my mind, there isn't that much difference between hitting 1k on something with 99k health and hitting 1 on something with 99 health. It's just something new to get used to.

It is nostalgia, yes. It also makes hitsplats smaller and easier to read, as you won't have to read as many zeroes >.>. Can use larger letters etc.

[Sir_Squab]

The thing about adrenaline, is it's designed so you can't just rush into combat and use a crazy ass spec. You build up to it. It prevents rushing. Also, it's probably better for the overall health of the game to have this adrenaline system then a system where you need to spend 12m on claws for the really awesome spec - makes awesome specs available to a lot more people. Not to mention awesome special attacks aren't essentially limited to melee.

Rushing is the most sensible way of combat, from a lore perspective >.>. Ever watched a fencing match? They do 5-10 seconds of fighting before one scores a hit. When you score a hit, it's over. That's how it works - one dragon claw to the gut and you're a goner. Remember that dragon is probably several factors stronger than steel or even mithril, probably enchanted and claws are actually body parts of tormented demons. When I'm taking a walk in a forest of charred trees, and you jump from behind a tree brandishing bright red foot-long claws wrenched from the body of a demon that was previously thought to be impossible to actually bind to this plane, and you put them in eight vital organs over the course of three seconds, I think I deserve to be dead or dying, thank you very much.

 

Except your armor comes from killing Nex, something so scary all the remaining gods in the time of the godwars put aside their differences bound her (couldn't even kill her.) And this is with her patron God gone or whatnot. Chances are your armor will come from some place that's fairly epic as well. Plus, in any visual story telling medium, the epic fights are long because long fights are inherently cooler then short ones. This is especially true in fantasy settings.

 

Another thought: PVP is, in a sense, a two player game. Each of you is trying to kill the other person. In any two player games, one of the most important things is that both players interact. If you're wandering about the wilde, or the Crucible, and out of nowhere you get attacked and die in two seconds, you've done very little interacting. This creates a very negative feeling for the loser and isn't good for the health of the game. Therefore, rushing as a PVP tactic is very bad to the overall health of the game.

 

In theory, penalizing training on low-level mobs makes sense. From a lore point of view, once you can easily slaughter hundreds or thousands of goblins in a day, you won't really learn from killing them. And keeping high levels away from low level monsters doesn't seem like a bad thing. Keep in mind, Jagex will probably also redo a lot of monsters combat levels. So you should wait and see on this one.

 

From a lore point of view, you can kill a couple of goblins in a day. Scale theory right there.

 

Also, how are you going to practice your particular fighting style if you're at risk of being killed? From a lore point of view, we should be fighting in arenas with wooden swords 99% of the time.

 

Also, the entire thing is backwards. It shouldn't be:

> Is high level

> Low level monsters provide better raw xp/hr

> Penalty for training on low level

= Train on high level

 

It should instead be:

> Is high level

> Is capable of killing high level monsters

> High level monsters drop more loot/unique items/have other advantages

= Train on high level

 

Any time you create a mechanic to prevent people from training on low levels, you've designed the game wrong.

I'll grant you this one. Players should fight higher level monsters because they're better, not because the exp for low leveled monsters is nerfed. I don't think that getting less exp from a monster because you're such a higher level then it, but there should be mechanics that positively encourage you to fight higher level monsters. Having the only or primary reason to fight high level monsters for combat be because you don't get exp from really low level monsters is bad game design.

 

Bloody hell, I didn't say everything I wanted. Also, splitting up replies like this is a pain.

 

EDIT: Moar replies.

 

Let's see. I don't think the hp/lp thing is bad, because it's hard to NOT train hp/lp, and there's no reward for doing so. That being said, puts hp/lp in the background because the level won't really matter. Easy fix is HP req on some of the higher LP boosting armor.

Except that the reward is higher lp... right now, lp just goes up as you level combat. Defence and hp cover two totally different areas like attack and strength cover two different areas. That's being changed for no reason. The ratio of 15:1 means that hp will either become useless, or it will become a secondary requirement to all kinds of armour and therefore act like a second defence skill except that it's slow as hell to train.

I'm not TOO worried about it being too slow to train since LP goes up naturally anyways. Also, maybe the LP boost could come from multiplying your LP instead of a straight up boost?

 

You do have a point here however, from the looks of things is seems very likely the HP will becomes useless.

 

 

Penalizing armour switching - might suck, but I understand it. If the combat triangle is to actually matter, Jagex needs to penalize armour switching.

Untrue. Armour switching is a natural consequence of the combat triangle. The only way a ranger can deal with a meleer is switching to magic. If you take that away, there is no more skill to combat - it's just mage bashes melee, good fight, see you again and if you come back in ranged gear, I took that into account and I'm now a meleer. E.g. rock-paper-scissors.

 

A 'good' reason to penalize armour switching is that you want to make combat slower overall. But I don't see why you would want to do that, because it's already quite slow.

 

What about rushing? Lol.

Honestly, this point depends on implementation. PVP needs to not be purely rock-paper-scissors. If you're in The Crucible or the Wilderness and suddenly it turns out that you're in melee gear and your opponent is maging you, you still need to stand a pretty good chance of winning or it isn't fun. The mage can have the advantage, but yous till need decent odds of winning. Say, 40%-45% barring other factors. Whether or not armor switching should be easily done depends on how much of a difference the combat triangle truly makes.

[Quyneax]

The thing about adrenaline, is it's designed so you can't just rush into combat and use a crazy ass spec. You build up to it. It prevents rushing. Also, it's probably better for the overall health of the game to have this adrenaline system then a system where you need to spend 12m on claws for the really awesome spec - makes awesome specs available to a lot more people. Not to mention awesome special attacks aren't essentially limited to melee.

Rushing is the most sensible way of combat, from a lore perspective >.>. Ever watched a fencing match? They do 5-10 seconds of fighting before one scores a hit. When you score a hit, it's over. That's how it works - one dragon claw to the gut and you're a goner. Remember that dragon is probably several factors stronger than steel or even mithril, probably enchanted and claws are actually body parts of tormented demons. When I'm taking a walk in a forest of charred trees, and you jump from behind a tree brandishing bright red foot-long claws wrenched from the body of a demon that was previously thought to be impossible to actually bind to this plane, and you put them in eight vital organs over the course of three seconds, I think I deserve to be dead or dying, thank you very much.

Except your armor comes from killing Nex, something so scary all the remaining gods in the time of the godwars put aside their differences bound her (couldn't even kill her.) And this is with her patron God gone or whatnot. Chances are your armor will come from some place that's fairly epic as well. Plus, in any visual story telling medium, the epic fights are long because long fights are inherently cooler then short ones. This is especially true in fantasy settings.

 

Another thought: PVP is, in a sense, a two player game. Each of you is trying to kill the other person. In any two player games, one of the most important things is that both players interact. If you're wandering about the wilde, or the Crucible, and out of nowhere you get attacked and die in two seconds, you've done very little interacting. This creates a very negative feeling for the loser and isn't good for the health of the game. Therefore, rushing as a PVP tactic is very bad to the overall health of the game.

Nex' relation with the armour is never explained afaik, it's completely unrelated (she doesn't use it for sure). But yeah, in general armour has its strengths, too. But no amount of armour can stand up to a straight-up attack. That's not how it works - you don't stand around in plate armour tanking hits, you don't catch blows on your shield straight-on. Armour is there to deflect, to cushion and to stop attacks that already mostly missed you because you were able to evade them. And armour most definitely doesn't give you more health. If someone mauls you, you are dead or stunned, no questions asked. The current system is already a massive over-estimation of the length of a fight.

 

I do agree rushing fights are not fun for the loser. But personally I find it very fun to watch a compilation of successfull 990 hp comboes, and I imagine getting a (profitable!) kill that way is very satisfying. There's a difference between fighting for fun (e.g. duels) and fighting for survival (in the form of income, in this case).

 

Imo the wilderness is for real, brutal fights, short and more hunter-killer than fair duels. A truly dangerous place. If you want long, spectacular fights, go to the Fight Pits or Duel Arena and fight with trusty steel weapons.

 

In the end it comes down to preference I guess, but imo the wilderness can't be dangerous enough if you can reasonably bring 3-4x more health than your opponent can ever hit in one hit.

[Hedgehog]

Tell me everything will be ok

[Sir_Squab]

I still don't think the wilderness should be that dangerous. To be fair, I've never been a fan of RS PVP, so I'm probably not the best person to judge what is and isn't fun in PVP.

 

That being said, my comment about interacting still applies. I think the thing about rushing and killing in one hit depends on how often you can pull it off - and a certain amount of luck needs to be required to pull it off. The current PVP system does require luck to pull off those one-hit k0s tho.

[Cow]

The new combat level formula is pretty ambiguous as well. Now instead of hiding 10-15 levels in attack/strength you can hide turmoil and 990 hp (and possibly a unicorn or something. If non-edge pking still exists).

It feels like they just made the problem of skills not contributing to cb level worse.

I feel that for pking (which seems to be the majority of the combat rework) will ignore huge lifepoint boosts. Currently eating over 500-600 from limited pking I see on youtube is frowned upon; I feel that in the new system of 15k hitpoints "safing" would be eating over 2-3k (if that's equivalent to a current hp of 500-600.)

[Quyneax]

Acceptable safe threshold roughly equals max hit, but that only applies in edge fights where you can run if you have high hp. In things like competetive ffa clan wars, people safe/prot pray etc. because there's much more at stake & no chance to run.

 

Tell me everything will be ok

everything = ok

 

No need for future tense.

 

Also, fun game. Rank 74 all-time atm (like 10% off rank 1 though >.>).

[Quyneax]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZXvd_N__sw

Music stuffs.

 

Resubscribed to dual wield rapier/Armadyl wand (it better exist!).

[brunokiller]

get comp nao plz

[Ambler]

I really wonder were this Virtus Wand will come from. If Nex, we need a Torva wep, spear perhaps? Zaryte can be changed to Pernix Bow if so.

Funny how the Zaryte only exists because Nex's creator lovesd the crystal bow. :lol:

 

Don't like how staves will suddenly become 2 handed for some reason, though bows are being held properly at last! <3:

Wonder if there'll be a polypore wand...

I hate speculation.

 

Also finished reading Legacy of Blood (3rd book in Betrayal at Falador series) Twas good, though cliffhanger for next book, and [hide=WARNING Spoiler, only read if you've read book/ or don't plan to]Too many "omg heros are gonna die, oh wait main character not happening" moments. Kind of glad they killed someone off. Inb4BoghtBackInNextBook. :rolleyes:

Oh and there's a ton of plotoles. Blisterwood dagger fo instance, as well as a Vyre surviving pretty much being claw specced y one.[/hide]

[Quyneax]

^Good spoiler lol, doesn't give too much away :P. Happens all the time in most fantasy series. The only exception is the kind that spans centuries and describes the history of a place rather than an individual/faction, but usually the world keeps existing no matter what so...

 

I think making staves 2h makes more sense than making another kind of 2h weapon (greatstaff or something). Ultimately making one generic mechanic for 2h weapons in ranged/magic/melee is the easiest way to make the combat triangle work to at least some degree.

 

It will be interesting to see where the wand comes from, but I think it'll just be Nex or maybe the Ceremonial Mages.

[Sir_Squab]

What I love about game of thrones: main characters aren't safe.

 

As for wands and such, I'm not sure nex will have weapons added to her drop list. lvl 80 weapons are chaotics, so add more of them. I doubt we'll see virtus/torva/pernix weapons.

[Hedgehog]

I want a doomcore wand

[Quyneax]

I want a doomcore wand

More dps! I said more dps!

 

@Squab: Virtus wand was confirmed by that name afaik, so there's a big clue as to what drops it. Then again, a lot of these new magic/ranged items will apparently be craftable.

[Ambler]

I hope surgebox can be used with wands in dg (I think it's remaining in dg?) for faster spells, seeing as staves are gonna be 2h. t10 blitzer + wand + csb = 1tick magic pls.

[Quyneax]

1 tick magic = OP. Just a little.

 

 

Always p2p at heart <3:.

 

Also I got taskmaster back from making a bonfire. Yay?

[Sinkhan]

Q is coming back?!?!

[Quyneax]

Q is coming back?!?!

I will be trying the beta at least, and if it's good, I may (may) return to my old goal. I hate leaving it unfinished after so much play time (I also feel bad about caving to Jagex's clever marketing & good about Jagex still making content that interests me).

[Sinkhan]

At least you'll have this to hang on to: [qfc]296-297-728-63776347[/qfc]

 

Apparently it's borked so: http://theorange.me/ckb/att/

 

Post about microtransactions and attacks