Investigating the Wise Old Man

[1alebcay]

By the way, a quick hint, never trust Wikipedia. Any random drunk blow joe can get on there and write what ever they want. (I am sorry, but I personally do not like Wikipedia.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh wow, that is most defiantly an interesting find... Arav may have a whole lot more to do with this than we thought... By the way when you use the part of the shield on the WOM he says you should keep it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also I am finding some interesting thins in my research. A lot of places referenced in these old stories are now surrounded by water or near it... It almost seems as if there has been a great raise of the water level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also another interesting thing is that around the time that the shield of Arav came into possession of the museum of Varrock was also the change of the age.

[Xewleer]

Well, the Ectofungus should not be in our calculations, when I searched the swamps, I found nothing. Nothing to connect the WOM to the swamps, not even in the... the... Wait!!!!! in the legend of the Barrow brothers, it mentions a strange old man who watched them, then they became distracted, finally dying. The army had to retreat, but first the army raised barrows over the brothers. Later as certain of the army came back, they saw that strange old man near the tombs, and a glow arose from the tombs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That could be the one connection we seek. But I am not a Barrows person so, I can't help you there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also the WOM's letter to the Dwarf mentioned a new smithing technique, what if the monster mentioned byt the Dorgeshuun civilians is connected!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, the magic without runes doesn't seem to be logical, I mean, as in ability to do it. But in the Swan's Song quest, he does complain about his lack of runes. So... just doesn't feel right! I thnk were missing something really important about the WOM's character, as in the evil part of him... namely his lack of it in the past. PEOPLE DO NOT FLIP_FLOP EVIL TO GOOD IN AN INSTANT NORMALLY! I think the WOM might have had dark intentions even before.

[skreeran1]

I don't know if this has been addressed, but I believe that I have discovered what the monster under WOM's bed is. It's a Dorgeshuun, I felt that already because of the color of the feet, but read this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I am indeed mystified by the matter of that creature under my bed. Many times I have persuaded willing folk to rid me of the nuisance, but always it returns. I suspect it to be a subterranean creature forced out of its natural habitat by those ridiculously attired xenophobes who call themselves HAM. On account of its incessant snoring at night, it is not welcome to seek asylum under my bed, and I shall continue to send people to deal with it until it ceases to trouble me."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, I've only read the first 3 pages and the last 5 pages, so I don't know if this had been answered previously.

[Randox]

No, we have not as of yet been able to identify the creature under the bed. A Dorgeshuun...hmmm. We'll going ont eh evedence you (skreeran1) have submited that seems likly. I shall investigate this personaly though im sure that as always nothing conclusive will come of it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway maby one of the better overal plot thinkers (like KCHughes and KingWenlock) whould try to figure out if this afects the plot at all :-k

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: My initial reserach shows that Dorgeshuun are not stupid or prone to fighting. They seem to oppose all violance. They are rarly seen by humans as they do not trust humans, and they have lived underground since the Godwars. I will only post more if I should find anything substantial.

[1alebcay]

The WOM says he doesn't want it there so obviously it is there against his will. It could very well be that the dorgeshun think that the WOM is the one sending the tunneling thing against them. Now they are trying to investigate them. The only problem with this idea is that the creature has been there before the latest upgrade to the dorgeshun.

[Randox]

The WOM says he doesn't want it there so obviously it is there against his will. It could very well be that the dorgeshun think that the WOM is the one sending the tunneling thing against them. Now they are trying to investigate them. The only problem with this idea is that the creature has been there before the latest upgrade to the dorgeshun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, I suppose if all else fails we always have the penguin under the bed idea, which i'd say is the second most likly next to the dorgeshuun theory.

[KingWenlok]

The WOM says he doesn't want it there so obviously it is there against his will. It could very well be that the dorgeshun think that the WOM is the one sending the tunneling thing against them. Now they are trying to investigate them. The only problem with this idea is that the creature has been there before the latest upgrade to the dorgeshun.

 

 

 

Ah, but are we talking in terms of the game or the actual world of Gielinor? Because if we are talking about the world RuneScape is set in, then it's easy to get around the fact that it was there before the update. Let's think of it in terms of 'discovery'- the Dorgeshuun City had been there long before Jagex 'found' them. So, it is highly plausible that one was sent to spy on the WOM, whilst the others in the city remained hidden to human eyes. If it is a Dorgeshuun, it could imply that they could be helpful in defeating the Wise Old Man. Randox said that they have lived underground since the God Wars- well, they could easily return to the surface to help battle opposition. Due to their non-violent nature, I come to the conclusion that they are either Saradominists or Guthixians (whatever). I think they may be Guthixians, due to the fact that they are not too keen on humans (nearly every Saradominist is human, if not all). Now, it seems inevitable that Guthix is going to try and stop the God war, so it will without a doubt employ all its followers to help in whatever way they can- gnomes would of course be its army. However, these Dorgeshuun... I'm not sure how they would be useful. Well, they do have an agility course- very spy-ish to me. The Dorgeshuun could be the elite spies of Guthix. It could be very interested in the Wise Old Man, and have sent a Dorgeshuun to spy on him. However, I'm not sure why the WOM would want to drill into the city- I'm pretty sure it's for an attack against the Tower, and as I've said, the spy is there to keep an eye on him. Curious that there is also a gnome mage hanging around the Wizard Tower, isn't it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway maby one of the better overal plot thinkers (like KCHughes and KingWenlock)

 

 

 

I'm not one of the 'main plot thinkers.' I've barely even arrived, whereas KCHughes has been here for ages. If I had to choose, probably 1alebcay.

[Randox]

I would have put 1alebcay but I forgot how to spell, and I was to lazy to look. The dorgeshuun proboly once worshiped the goblin war god. I dont think they worship any God now as no God has the same level of no conflict policy that these dorgeshuun have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yes, it would have been easy for jagex to have one apper before the update 'discovered them' . The whole WOM plot was proboly mostly preplanned as it would be hard to make up such an intricate plot as we go along. I dont think im going to get anymore information on the dorgeshuun, the only way to get proper info would be to get membership and do the 'death to the dogeshuun' quest myself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On a related note: Do we have any members that are a part of this or are we all former members and f2pers. I'll see if my member friends have any good info, but I won't be able to convince them to runaround investigating things for me.

[Xewleer]

have you forgotten already the brave sally I made into the swamps, losing hitpoints and being captured by the Vyrewatch? For shame Randox #-o

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am a member.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The dorgeshuun now atheists, they have no god. It has been supposed that the goblin war god was Zaros. Why? They just went underground and Zaros changed them so that they would have to stay in the underground. This isn't the best of ways to deal with deserters but... I and my long-gone friends supposed that the reason why Zaros didn't destroy them was because he didn't have time to, with Zamorack betraying him and all. So they forsook all gods and stayed underground.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The gnome mage says he is there to learn human magics. I already knew that gnomes have their own breed of magic so... no big surprise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

will be on later tonight I hope!

[mhosseins]

This is the only current article about the majjhratt

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://runescape.salmoneus.net/mahjarrats.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally think the house at the north is now the axe hut (just an idea)

[Randox]

No Xewleer, I have not forgoten about the trip to the swamps, I just forgot who did it and how long ago. Perhaps I should have asked weather we still had a member on the investigation though that wouldnt be much better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My apologies :oops:

[KCHughes]

KCHughes has been here for ages.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm an old man. :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ Xewleer:

 

 

 

I read that part of the Barrows history and I didn't make the connection to that mysterious man being WOM until now. Remember back when we thought that WOM wanted the Barrows brothers' armor for his campaign? Seems pretty likely, given that WOM was indeed the man who was watching the brothers. But, the would mean that WOM was alive during the God Wars, which means he is upwards of 6000 years old. I don't think it means anything as of now, but maybe that guy was one of the desert gods - the one in control of the dead, or something. After all, the Barrows brothers are undead when you fight them, right? Maybe that god made them that way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ skeeran

 

 

 

Where did you find that? Was it in one of WOM's books?

 

 

 

I'm thinking back to that wallpaper Jagex released of WOM sitting at his desk, and the pair of eyes underneath it. Aren't Dorgeshuun eyes supposed to be very large, since they live in caves al the time? But what could a Dorgeshuun be doing under his bed?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK, back when I was a member a long time ago, I tried to do the first Dorgeshuun quest and I got lost in the cave, and ended up going to the area where the Tears of Guthix quest begins. Isn't it ironic that the cave where Guthix was sleeping in during the God Wars is connected to the cave that the Dorgeshuun live in? I'd say that's pretty conclusive that the Dorgeshuun follow Guthix. And I like what Wenlok said - Guthixians (we really need a better word for them) trying to prevent the next god war. After all, it's common knowledge that the Mahjarrat are preparing for the next God War, so Guthixians should also know this. Although the Dorgeshuun are peaceful, that doesn't exclude them from gathering information for Guthix, does it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Therefore, the Dorgeshuun could know more about what WOM's plotting than any of us do. If there's anything in the new quest that reinforces this, someone post it here. I think we need a few more details from members:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. The location of the drill-thing relative to the caves/which direction the drill is pointing in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. If ANYONE has WOM tell them to kill the thing under his bed, please take a screenshot and post it here for us all to marvel at. :wink:

[Xewleer]

Okay, I went back and talked to some more Dorgeshuun. They are atheists!!!! they treat the word god like tis a curse word! they follow no god!

 

 

 

grrr!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, maybe it was the WOM, maybe it was someone connected to the vampyres for all we know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

About the drill thing, I think that the dwarves are trying to get the goblins under their economic thumb. The drill thing I think is still around. Got a huge amount of vibes for a quest, involving Dorgeshuun and the Red axe, just a feeling.

[skreeran1]

The dorgeshuun now atheists, they have no god.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's the conclusion I've come to, rememeber what the goblin that we showed the city said when we went into the church?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But, she did seem to have favor with Guthix, as she collected his tears and he ressurected her.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ skeeran

 

 

 

Where did you find that? Was it in one of WOM's books?

 

 

 

I'm thinking back to that wallpaper Jagex released of WOM sitting at his desk, and the pair of eyes underneath it. Aren't Dorgeshuun eyes supposed to be very large, since they live in caves al the time? But what could a Dorgeshuun be doing under his bed?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK, back when I was a member a long time ago, I tried to do the first Dorgeshuun quest and I got lost in the cave, and ended up going to the area where the Tears of Guthix quest begins. Isn't it ironic that the cave where Guthix was sleeping in during the God Wars is connected to the cave that the Dorgeshuun live in? I'd say that's pretty conclusive that the Dorgeshuun follow Guthix. And I like what Wenlok said - Guthixians (we really need a better word for them) trying to prevent the next god war. After all, it's common knowledge that the Mahjarrat are preparing for the next God War, so Guthixians should also know this. Although the Dorgeshuun are peaceful, that doesn't exclude them from gathering information for Guthix, does it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Therefore, the Dorgeshuun could know more about what WOM's plotting than any of us do. If there's anything in the new quest that reinforces this, someone post it here. I think we need a few more details from members:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. The location of the drill-thing relative to the caves/which direction the drill is pointing in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. If ANYONE has WOM tell them to kill the thing under his bed, please take a screenshot and post it here for us all to marvel at. :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I found it in the postbag... Forgot which one though...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, they hate and fear the Gods, but perhaps they still serve Guthix, even if not of their own will, perhaps Guthix guides them subconciously?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And, just to through a theory out there, what if Zammy knows that the Dorgeshuun are gathering info? Think of the HAMs, violent, malevolent, they wear red(ish). Perhaps Zamorak is influencing the HAMs to get rid of Guthix's information source...

[KingWenlok]

@ Xewleer: I read that part of the Barrows history and I didn't make the connection to that mysterious man being WOM until now. Remember back when we thought that WOM wanted the Barrows brothers' armor for his campaign? Seems pretty likely, given that WOM was indeed the man who was watching the brothers. But, the would mean that WOM was alive during the God Wars, which means he is upwards of 6000 years old. I don't think it means anything as of now, but maybe that guy was one of the desert gods - the one in control of the dead, or something. After all, the Barrows brothers are undead when you fight them, right? Maybe that god made them that way.

 

 

 

Well, I did have a pretty far out thoery that the WOM was Armadyl. if he was, that would explain how he could have been around at that time. Perhaps Armadyl was planning the whole time what to do if he lost his power as a god? I somehow have the feeling that Zaros thought that Armadyl was becoming too big-headed about his god status, so that could be why Armadyl's staff was stolen to make him lose power. Armadyl could have foresaw this, and attempted to set up a plan to make sure that even if he is defeated, he'll find another way to be a god again.

 

 

 

Oh, and the god of death is Icthlarin. He seems to be almost the exact same as Anubis the jackal-headed god, who was in control of Egyptian mummification (basically we was in control of death). I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the WOM, but then again, there is a very Eye of Horus like symbol on the Wizard's Tower, and Horus was an Egyptian god.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, I went back and talked to some more Dorgeshuun. They are atheists!!!! they treat the word god like tis a curse word! they follow no god!

 

 

 

grrr!!!

 

 

 

They might not even think Guthix is a god. Since Guthix has no real physical form, he could have pretended to be a very powerful goblin. They surely would have bowed down to one of their kind with that much strength! So, they may think Guthix is their 'king' or lord as such. I'm sure they wouldn't mind running errands for him. They would be good spies too- from the looks of them, they seem quite small and aware. They're probably quite agile too- I mean, they have the (apparently hardest) agility course. And don't they live underground? They probably know some tunneling techniques. Heck, I'm sure there a few sitting underneath the WOM's house right now. :mrgreen:

[Xewleer]

I do belioeve that the Dorgeshuun are led by a council, led by Ur-tag. Guthix is not in this world, but he is manipulating it. Remember, the Dorgeshuun are kinda cowardly, they are very fearful beings. Zanik has an argument witht the scribe about the sky. Guthix might be controlling them subliminally, but I don't see the point. Why, if the WOM basically stays down stairs, with all his stuff that is basically downstairs (excepting telescope) and the spy is upstairs? How do you tunnel into a second story bed??? By the way, I think that monster had a tail, Dorgeshuun do not have a tail!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, concerning the great goblin Guthix gesticulation, its rubbish! Dorgeshuun are ruled by a council of goblins and are only protected by weak guards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amandyl is still alive and kicking, but I thought he was trying to assist his followers.

[Randox]

I'm going to second Xweeler here and say the Dorgeshuun have NO GOD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It may alos be worht reminding peoplel that Guthix forbade the Gods to interfere and I belive that rule may apply to it as well. Now Saradomin and Zamorack could still interfere a little bit so long as it was not worth a confrontation on Guthixis part.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wuold also say that the Wizard tower is still both loyal to Varrock and the rest of Misthalin and supporters of Saradomin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats all for now 8-)

[Pyrex]

Just a little thingy :

 

 

 

5th theory: Penguins, Summoning, and the Apocalypse (tons of people)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

See pages 16-18. WOM is wanting the ability to summon, to either attack/destroy the Wizard's Tower. Grayzag and Malignus Mortifier, who are the only people known to have the ability to summon, are possibly conspiring against the Wizard's Tower and WOM is seeking a way to stop them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Status: Probable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evil Dave summoned hellrats :)

 

 

 

And Melzar the mad in Melzar's maze became insane, because of the summoning. (In other words, held the power of summoning)

[Xewleer]

Story of Investigating the WOM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats right I' writing a story about the Wise Old man, Namely my adventures in the swamps... Do not be negative, I'm think its okay for my first attempt at a detective story!

[KCHughes]

If you want, I go by "KCHughes" :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just read that article about the Mahjarrat on the previous page. Really interesting. But it says that Saradomin was once a Mahjarrat. This really opens up a whole new can of worms. Zamorak became a god, and Saradomin became a god before him? It seems to be shaping up so that anybody with half a brain can become a god.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also found that on the same article, Zamorak is currently banished somewhere for breaking Guthix's truce. The truce was set up to END the first God War, so Zamorak must have broken it sometime afterwards. First of all, what could Zamorak have done to break the truce? Second of all, this proves that Zamorak cares nothing for Guthix's treaty. He broke it once, and my guess is that if he stops being banished soon, he'll break it again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think this explains exactly what the Mahjarrat are doing by "going north" to prepare for the next God War. This seems obvious to me, but I think they're going to do something to free Zamorak from his banishment. The Mahjarrat are extremely good at magic, so their combined power could probably break Zamorak free.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This also goes perfectly along with what WOM may do to set up the Zamorakians to take the blame for the destruction of the Tower. By destroying the Tower at about the same time that Zamorak is released, it would look like Zamorak's forces did it as a tactical maneuver to cripple the Saradominist mages, and render Saradomin's army ineffective against magic-borne attacks. However, since Zamorak has been banished for so long, he probably knows nothing about our WOM, does he? WOM could easily pick up the slack left by the mages and lead an army to victory, right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd like to open up a new theory about Armadyl. All this time we've been thinking that he somehow lost all of his power and is trying to get it back. Maybe that's not the case at all. Maybe Armadyl is off somewhere else, not in Gielinor at all. I don't think an object, like a staff, makes a god powerful. That power should come from the god himself, not froom some object. Of course, the object retains SOME of the god's power, just look at the god staffs. WOM has a Saradomin staff too, but that doesn't really make him a god, does it? No, I think Armadyl is still as powerful as everyone claims him to be (he's equal to Zaros in strength, after all).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's an idea. Armadyl and Zaros are long-time rivals with one another. Maybe after Zaros was - killed/banished - Armadyl saw no need to hang around anymore. His rival was vanquished, Saradomin was by this time the god of order, so maybe Armadyl assumed that he wasn't really needed anymore. But, he left his staff in the care of the followers of Ikov (Saradomin's son, according to that article) so that just in case Zaros comes back (which I think Armadyl expects to happen; Zaros must be really tough to keep down), Armadyl can get his staff again and fight. Just a thought.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

More interesting things in that article: The Oracle really is a Mahjarrat, but is perhaps not on Zamorak's side, in the same way that Saradomin was once a Mahjarrat but became good. Also, it said that Vannaka the Tutorial Island Combat Instructor could also be a Mahjarrat, because of the way his face is painted. If WOM is in contact with the Oracle, then WOM may also get in contact with Vannaka. He is a slayer master too, right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yup, just like I thought:

 

 

 

Currently Zamorak is now banned to another realm and a group of elves called the Mourners who follow Zamorak are currently trying to bring him back using the death altar in the Temple of Light.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*dances*

[Xewleer]

I'm sorry about your name! gah! okay, you bring up a very good point, the mournings end 1-2 have not been done by me so... I don't really trust that site (sal's realm...) etc. You could be right though

[shurikennin]

I personnnally beleive he is the son of Saradomin or maybe Saradomin himself!That's because in the quest swan song he was hit for a 245 which didn't even put a red pixel on his health bar! :shock:From the bank robbery vid he hit pretty high(15 wiht melee 40 wiht mage+ disingrating poeple),tele-othered and attack the pillory guard!id say demi-god or god!

[KCHughes]

I'm sorry about your name! gah! okay, you bring up a very good point, the mournings end 1-2 have not been done by me so... I don't really trust that site (sal's realm...) etc. You could be right though

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm going to look around and see if I can find anything backing that site up, but they *seem* to be well-informed...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Confirmed: Saradomin WAS, at one point, a Mahjarrat. I cross-checked it with 6 other sites. It really makes sense, when you think about it. That's why the remaining Mahjarrat hate Saradomin so much, because they see him as a traitor. I don't see any of them hating Armadyl, since he also stands for things contrary to most Mahjarrat. I'm guessing Saradomin was the first Mahjarrat to quit and leave Freneskae, and come to Gielinor.

[Xewleer]

He could be, just the vibes I got, you know a gut feeling... but oh well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought that the fact that Saradomin was Majharrat was pretty well shored up, oh well. I don't think that the majharrat hated Saradomin for leaving Frenaskae first. But rather, for the things he did. Like say to Zaros and his evil minions "your wrong" type thing. I never found anything though, in my experiences at least, that Saradomin was hated. Out of curioity, could you post the websites that had god pages? I would like to cross reference them all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, I got Zybez God page (not bad one) and Runehq's, they both have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(New chapter up on story!)

[KCHughes]

Out of curioity, could you post the websites that had god pages? I would like to cross reference them all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, this one link came right off of the official forums:

 

 

 

Now, south of the desert, as we already know, is Freneskae - Where the Mahjarrat came from, as well as Zaros, Zamorak and Saradomin.

 

 

 

This is the page that quoted the forums:Here

 

 

 

Sorry I couldn't find the link to the official topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some forum thread

 

 

 

i highly doubt Armadyl being a mahjarrat, although the mahjarrat that turn out good and rebel against everything the mahjarrat race stands for, even more than Saradomin did, would be interesting to find

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hmm...that seems to be it...But I'm glad I found the one from the official forums, I hadn't seen that one before.