Black history month

[Zierro]

See? Look what Black History Month did to our beautiful community. :cry:

[Range_This11]

I'll take heated, healthy debate any day. It's better than reading the essentially mindless posts on the Today thread.

[Ginger_Warrior]

With the greatest respect, I've simply argued against the point you've made on the grounds that your argument was poorly made. That's not being disrespectful, that's called a disagreement.

 

There's a difference between supporting ideas with reason, as opposed to supporting ideas with evidence. Do realise that you're the one who has gone into the tangent of discussing medical issues, not me. I was still referring to cultural and ethnic identity.

An implied point I was making was this: It's foolish to pretend that people of different ethnicity aren't different--they are, and that fact still has relevence. Fighting against racism doesn't mean we pretend as though black people are white. It means that in our day-to-day lives, we make every attempt to ensure black people aren't treated any differently, because they've committed the 'crime' of identifying themselves as black.

 

Black Americans have their own identity because of the oppression they faced in the US until only relatively recently. White Americans, as far as I know, have never been oppressed to the point where they collectively needed to form a seperate identity to the ethnic group oppressing them, and generally every issue that's affected white people in America has also affected black Americans. That's why white Americans do not have their own seperate identity, distinguishable from their identity as Americans, whereas black Americans have both an ethnic heritage from being black, and a cultural heritage from being American.

 

If you talked about the Cold War, it'd be relevent to all Americans. If you talked about the War of Independence, it'd be relevent to all Americans. If you talked about Martin Luther King's legacy, it only really has relevence to black people. That's why there is "black history" and "American history", without there being a "white history". I don't see what good it does to sweep that ugly part of American history under the carpet; do white Germans deny the Holocaust?

 

I'll take heated, healthy debate any day. It's better than reading the essentially mindless posts on the Today thread.

I like to call it the "My alcohol-related antics > your alcohol-related antics" thread. Kind of grew out of that phase about two years ago.

[Zierro]

An implied point I was making was this: It's foolish to pretend that people of different ethnicity aren't different--they are, and that fact still has relevence. Fighting against racism doesn't mean we pretend as though black people are white. It means that in our day-to-day lives, we make every attempt to ensure black people aren't treated any differently, because they've committed the 'crime' of identifying themselves as black.

 

I don't think anyone's arguing that we should all pretend we're colorblind. His point, and mine, was that skin color really isn't that important of a feature. Now you can interpret that in any shape or form you want, but attacking his point without even allowing him the chance to clarify isn't something I'd like to call a healthy debate.

 

Black Americans have their own identity because of the oppression they faced in the US until only relatively recently. White Americans, as far as I know, have never been oppressed to the point where they collectively needed to form a seperate identity to the ethnic group oppressing them, and generally every issue that's affected white people in America has also affected black Americans. That's why white Americans do not have their own seperate identity, distinguishable from their identity as Americans, whereas black Americans have both an ethnic heritage from being black, and a cultural heritage from being American.

 

If you talked about the Cold War, it'd be relevent to all Americans. If you talked about the War of Independence, it'd be relevent to all Americans. If you talked about Martin Luther King's legacy, it only really has relevence to black people.

 

Martin Luther King fought for equal opportunity for all races. Maybe it was more special for the blacks because it impacted their lives directly, but to say it's irrelevant to anyone but black people is untrue. It definitely had an impact on me, and I bet you "let freedom ring" was pretty relevant on some women's minds during that period. He was a philanthropist - not some sort of Black Pride leader.

 

That's why there is "black history" and "American history", without there being a "white history". I don't see what good it does to sweep that ugly part of American history under the carpet; do white Germans deny the Holocaust?

 

I don't understand this part at all. Are you saying that the grandchildren of racists are in some sort of debt? Should we have a holiday for every time one large group of people wronged another large group of people? That sounds like one ugly calendar.

 

- - - - -

 

Is making people feel like they are owed something really making social relations any better? When religions, races, and nations keep score amongst each other like some sort of "objective, omniscient system" that is ironically comprised of a bunch of spiteful children who hide behind business suits and public opinion, who is really winning? We can't afford to isolate each other because of history when we share the same exact challenging future ahead of us all. We, as human beings, already have enough to worry about.

 

*applauds and flowers*

[Assume Nothing]

I don't think I could phrase it any better than you did. It approximately sums up my thoughts on the subject.

[Ginger_Warrior]

That's why there is "black history" and "American history", without there being a "white history". I don't see what good it does to sweep that ugly part of American history under the carpet; do white Germans deny the Holocaust?

 

I don't understand this part at all. Are you saying that the grandchildren of racists are in some sort of debt? Should we have a holiday for every time one large group of people wronged another large group of people? That sounds like one ugly calendar.

I didn't suggest that grandchildren of Nazis were in any debt. All I said was that the majority of them accept the Holocaust happened, and that it was wrong, and that the grandchildren of those who were on the other side of oppression might want to remember their grandparents in some personal way.

 

If you go back to the, I don't know, third or fourth response on this thread, you'd find I ridicule the idea of Black History Month. I'm not a great fan of special "days" or "months" in general, since there's so many of them now that it loses meaning and diverts focus away from the real social issues we need to be dealing with. But as someone who has studied history, as I'm sure you have as well, I can recognise that black Americans do have a different history than that of their white counterparts, and just like anything else in history, that's nothing to look over, that's something that you embrace and learn from.

 

Let's try taking this issue away from the venomous territory of "race". Do you celebrate American Independence Day? Isn't that the fight of a "large group of people who were wronged by another large group of people"? Perhaps I should suggest that you celebrating your independence is an example of point scoring and doesn't help our two countries work together for the future. If I did that, of course I'd be being wholly ridiculous.

[jetset516a]

Everybody should get a month or nobody does.

 

/this.

 

I'm sorry, but I nor any of my ancestors oppressed blacks, or owned slaves. I don't have a problem recognizing the accomplishments, or struggles, but when does my ethnicity get recognition? (and the whole "you get the other eleven months is utter bulls**t). We'll never truly have equality when we give, even for a day or month, reason for one group to be more "special" than all others.

[Guest jrhairychest]

I don't understand this part at all. Are you saying that the grandchildren of racists are in some sort of debt? Should we have a holiday for every time one large group of people wronged another large group of people? That sounds like one ugly calendar.

 

I'm sorry, but I nor any of my ancestors oppressed blacks, or owned slaves. I don't have a problem recognizing the accomplishments, or struggles, but when does my ethnicity get recognition? (and the whole "you get the other eleven months is utter bulls**t). We'll never truly have equality when we give, even for a day or month, reason for one group to be more "special" than all others.

I agree. I can't really vouch for anything my ancestors did as I don't know but I certainly haven't oppressed anyone yet theres an assumption that you're supposed to feel some sort of guilt.

 

Let's try taking this issue away from the venomous territory of "race". Do you celebrate American Independence Day? Isn't that the fight of a "large group of people who were wronged by another large group of people"? Perhaps I should suggest that you celebrating your independence is an example of point scoring and doesn't help our two countries work together for the future. If I did that, of course I'd be being wholly ridiculous.

 

On the contrary. Independence day is treated as a genuine celebration of what it was as it looks at the positives. The race issues are generally used as a beating stick in an attempt to make people feel guilty about things that happened years ago and tend to focus on the negatives. It's as if people don't want to let things go and hang on to the past.

[Shiny]

Where is my white history month?

[Kimberly]

Where is my white history month?

 

Presidents day.

[obfuscator]

Where is my white history month?

 

Presidents day.

Oh the ironing.

[Kimberly]

Where is my white history month?

 

Presidents day.

Oh the ironing.

 

http://www.punchbowl.com/holidays/national-waffle-iron-day

 

No that's a different holiday.

[Nomrombom]

President's Day now includes a black man as well.

 

And it's a day. Not even 4% of a month.

 

 

Oh and the other 11 months aren't white history months. You learn a large amount of black history in history classes, all the way back to the origins of African Americans up to today and the future.

[demby123]

Where is my white history month?

You have white history year.

 

White history is taught through the education system all the time. It's just called, "History".

[jetset516a]

Where is my white history month?

You have white history year.

 

White history is taught through the education system all the time. It's just called, "History".

 

But there's no emphasis on what an accomplishment it was *because* they were white, nor is there any inference that anyone of Caucasian descent should feel a personal sense of pride in their accomplishments.

So...

 

white history year

 

Is, in fact, non-existent.

[Shiny]

My history course (based in NZ) is English History, however, I could have chosen to do New Zealand History, which is half-maori. I could have done american history which includes black history as well. History, as it should be taught, is not race-orientated, necessarily.

[Zierro]

Let's try taking this issue away from the venomous territory of "race". Do you celebrate American Independence Day? Isn't that the fight of a "large group of people who were wronged by another large group of people"? Perhaps I should suggest that you celebrating your independence is an example of point scoring and doesn't help our two countries work together for the future. If I did that, of course I'd be being wholly ridiculous.

 

Interesting comparison, but I would argue that there's nothing wrong with a celebration of freedom on its own. Martin Luther King Day, or perhaps the anniversary of the day black people got their liberties, are in much better taste than a Black History Month. There's no "Be proud of who you are (a black person)" stigma.

 

As far as celebrating the USA in contrast to every other country, I do find flamboyant patriotism to be just as annoying and ostracizing. I don't see how so many people can get pride from things that have nothing to do with what they've done. Celebrate all you want, but what is the pat on the back for?

[Assume Nothing]

The issue I have with ethnic pride is the fact that it's not because of a personal accomplishment, but rather - accident of birth. It's impossible to choose where you're born, or who you're born from - so what are you really celebrating?

[Nomrombom]

Coat and Skeptic put it very well.

[obfuscator]

I've learned plenty of history involving non-white people in months other than February.

[demby123]

Where is my white history month?

You have white history year.

 

White history is taught through the education system all the time. It's just called, "History".

 

But there's no emphasis on what an accomplishment it was *because* they were white, nor is there any inference that anyone of Caucasian descent should feel a personal sense of pride in their accomplishments.

So...

 

I don't understand, there's no real emphasis on accomplishments DUE to race no matter who or what we discussed in history class.

 

 

Interesting comparison, but I would argue that there's nothing wrong with a celebration of freedom on its own. Martin Luther King Day, or perhaps the anniversary of the day black people got their liberties, are in much better taste than a Black History Month. There's no "Be proud of who you are (a black person)" stigma.

 

As far as celebrating the USA in contrast to every other country, I do find flamboyant patriotism to be just as annoying and ostracizing. I don't see how so many people can get pride from things that have nothing to do with what they've done. Celebrate all you want, but what is the pat on the back for?

 

I agree with all of this.