The Back Room

[Resistance]

Its just dissapointingly empty. How long have you had the chestpains for? What sort of pain would you describe it as?

[The_Mather1]

I've had it for years, it's not really either, it's like that feeling you get when you have trouble swallowing something small and it feels like it gets stuck right behind the sternum.

 

EDIT: Going by the numbness in my right arm it may be a very slight heart attack.

[Retech]

Okay, you're sitting at your computer, on the Falador Tavern, telling us that you are having a heart attack?

 

<_<

[Resistance]

Are you sure that it isn't just heartburn?

 

I'm creating a gun, probably next year. I can't obviously use gunpowder (unless its blackpowder) however I was considering make a slingshot in the style of http://www.youtube.com/user/JoergSprave and housing it inside the barrel. The actual bullet will be held with a magnet and be placed into the gun by the muzzle, I will then pull back the slingshot using some a 'pull back mechanism' pulling it back like a pump-action gun. This is then released with a trigger.

OR

I will use a spring housed at the back of the gun, the gun will be break action. The spring will fire pushing the bullet out of the gun when I press the trigger.

 

The first idea using a slingshot will be much easier and I can definitely do it however I think a spring would be more rewarding as a break action gun is cooler and the spring will be more powerful. I dont' have any ideas for how to make the spring mechanism so I am asking you lot.

 

(this is part of a pirate themed set)

[The_Mather1]

Heartburn may be the symptom, but the only explanation for it is a heart attack, because I have no digestive problems, I haven't eaten that recently and I have numerous of the factors which increase the chance of having a heart attack.

 

Yes, Retech, yes I am. There's no reason for me not to do that, it's nothing serious so it's either this or beating my chest like a rabid gorilla, since it's only mildly annoying and it'll be gone before any pain killers would have any chance to function.

 

Res a pistol-crossbow would be easier to do I think, and a pistol-arrowcaster would be more pirate-ish than a pistol-slingshot if you feel the need to use rubberbands(difference being an arrowcaster firing bolts instead of rocks/balls.

[Resistance]

 

Although it is piratey I don't think I'd like to make it, it takes away the magic as you can easily see the workings. Also I don't think I'd be allowed to make a crossbow, something like a slingshot would be far more reasonable. I could make a hawaiian sling style arrowcaster, it should be able to kill fish and it would be just as easy as making a ball thrower (infact the arrows could be interchangeable)

 

The problem I see with a slingshot/crossbow is that making it repeating will be a chore, thats why I was thining of using a spring mechanism but I have no idea how to do that.

[The_Mather1]

If you elaborate on the problem then I will try my best to make a model to show you how it could be done, I have much experience working on Lego crossbows and pistols.

 

And that's not an arrowcaster, an arrowcaster is basically a crossbow where the bow is replaced by a slingshot.

[Ieyfura]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIGINMzuVGg&feature=channel_video_title

 

 

oh, and here's the english version just so you don't get lost. xD

[archimage_a]

Guy in the orange underwear is the strategy guide...for referance.

 

 

Quite interesting this gun designing idea...At the moment I am looking at Cams, Rubber and Bolt Action firing systems. Should be easily more complicated than a clockwork microchip =P

[Ieyfura]

Guy in the orange underwear is the strategy guide...for referance.

 

Yes...the strategy guide, which is depicted perfectly. It seriously does absolutely nothing to help you beat the game >:0

[Resistance]

 

Basically the problem is finding an efficient firing system.

 

Using a slingshot I will need to work out how to secure the slingshot in place and then fire it. Otherwise its relatively easy, I can replace it if it breaks and it should be easy to make without any problems. Problem: don't know how to secure slingshot in place after pulled back.

Or I could make the second break-action release and fire gun, it would be far easier and look better (break action looks better) but I have no idea how to make the shaded orange reigon. I want to be able to pull something on the side and then when I pull the trigger release a spring and push the bullet out of the barrel instantaneously. Problem: don't know how to make spring mechanism, don't know how to get it to fire by press of trigger,

And there is a third very difficult suggestion that I just came up now due to Arch mentioning cams. I could create a (psuedo) clockwork cam spinning around rapidly which would constantly push bullets out of the barrel at high speed, I would only need to wire the trigger to a circuit to rapidly spin the cam and then I would need to create a complex autoloading system. Problem: potentially not strong enough? Don't know how to make.

[Grim_]

I just bought Vicky II on steam, I'll check it out and hopefully be able to pick it up around as quickly as I am EUIII.

[The_Mather1]

Using any type of energy redirection system to fire is useless, there's no way to get enough force. Spring mechanisms are also troublesome and far inferior.

A break-action system does not work for pulling back such as you need either.

You can use a bolt-action system where the bolt is what pushes the projectile, this is the most common solution for Lego weapons, you can also use a pump-action system where the pump pulls back a bolt that is hidden, this is easier to operate.

 

Red is trigger, green is barrel, black is bolt, gray is elastic, blue is handle, yellow is hinge, brown is movement direction.

 

Pump-action is the same, but the pump pushes the handle instead of you pulling it.

[archimage_a]

Figure A

Figure B

Figure C

Figure D

 

 

So...From the top:

 

We have a ball bearing based draw bolt.

The reason that it is ball bearing based is that when you pull the draw bolt you need allow the Pinion to rotate freely.

The bolt draws the pinion along the ratchet, which allows you to draw to a set drawlength (IE you find the max possible and make the ratchet that long)

If properly utilised it also means you can pull it back one click at a time, rather than needing to always pull the full load in one go.

There is a draw bolt on both sides, though only one NEEDS to be used. (It is preferable to use both, as it decreases strain and allows you to bring more force to bear)

 

This leads onto a Chain Gear, which allows us to move the motion up or down, meaning the wheels don't need to be on the same plane as the rachets.

 

The wheels are connected here, and should have a spiral groove cut into them, thus allowing the high tensile material to be wound about them.

 

The high tensile material leads to the elasticated material, connected by an electromagnetic lock, which can be disengaged at will, which should be formed at a contagious object, with a loop and either end.

 

Said loops pass around fixed points on the bowgun, providing the slingshot apparatus.

 

 

 

The bolt turns the pinion, which turns the gears, which wind the wheels, which draw in the two High Tensile Material strings, which pulls on the two Electro Magnets, which pulls on the two second parts of the Electromagnet, which pull on the Elasticated Material, which pulls on the fixed points, which do not yield.

Thus, as long as the user has sufficent strength to draw the bolt back, and then lock the ratchet in place, then you will be able to use a very high amount of force to propel your projectile.

 

 

You could also use a pulley system to decrease the amount of effort it takes to draw the bolt back, though this would increase the length of the mechanism proportionately.

 

You could also use a crank instead of a bolt, allowing you to magnify the amount of force you were bringing to bear.

 

A further alternative is to use a small electric motor. Though if you are taking this approach it would be a better idea to use a single Worm Drive, central mounted. The motor turns the worm, which turns the cog, which works on the two Chain Gears, which turn the wheels. Ect.

 

One of the other benefits of the Worm Drive is that it doesn't jump backwards (unless it breaks), since the Cog CAN'T turn the Worm. (So if you wind it half way, it won't unwind itself)

 

 

 

 

The main issue with the whole mechanical approach, aside from the additional complexity during the build, is that you need to reset the bolt yourself, which means manually unwinding the two wheels.

This isn't super complicated. You just release the bolt, unwind the wheels, reset the electromagnet, and then redraw.

It is a little time consuming however.

 

That said, everything here is a little time consuming...Its the trade off for having a Steampunk Gun. (Add Barnacles for a Pirate theme)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Aside:

A constantly spinning system would jam up so fast(Anything that wasn't thrown out would enter the mechanism and get caught. It would also be ineffective as a weapon.

 

Also, it is technically a Bolt Action Bowgun, as the Bolt does open the Breach...as well as doing other stuff =)

[Jehosaphat]

The Tavern: Where we discuss everything. Even designing our own firearms.

 

I've been working on a mental design for an air-compression gun made out of pipe tubing. Sadly, I own neither an air compressor nor tubing nor any of the valves and bits that I would need to make it work. And finding something standard to use as ammo would be a pain in the @#$@.

[jasignhagj]

I can wrap an elastic around my finger and hit anyone within 5m :thumbsup:

[The_Mather1]

Pieis, potatoes and apples. :thumbsup:

[a_bert]

punk rock owns

[Retech]

talk to albert about guns

 

 

americans are so pro at those

[Resistance]

Using any type of energy redirection system to fire is useless, there's no way to get enough force. Spring mechanisms are also troublesome and far inferior.

A break-action system does not work for pulling back such as you need either.

You can use a bolt-action system where the bolt is what pushes the projectile, this is the most common solution for Lego weapons, you can also use a pump-action system where the pump pulls back a bolt that is hidden, this is easier to operate.

 

Red is trigger, green is barrel, black is bolt, gray is elastic, blue is handle, yellow is hinge, brown is movement direction.

 

Pump-action is the same, but the pump pushes the handle instead of you pulling it.

 

I think I'm going to go for the bolt action system because I personally feel that it asthetically it looks better and it will be easier to construct. A bolt action gun will fire the external handle on the outside, this could potentially catch my hand - to combat this I could use a folding mechanism on the handle.

Where would the bullet go? Would it be contained inside the bolt or ahead, won't that create a problem if I am firing at a negative angle?

How do I make the trigger spring back to its original place, how do I make it look like a standard trigger?

 

Otherwise everything seems to be good.

 

-

 

Sat infront of a blank word page for twenty minutes trying to reply to your post Archi but I don't think there is anything to say apart from agreement.

 

-

 

The Crusades thread is up, if anybody is interested please post.

[archimage_a]

Only change I would make would be attaching the Draw Bolt to the Rachet instead of the Pinion. Since the Pinion isn't supposed to move, and drawing it back would obviously move it =P.

 

 

Would probably require a pretty strong set of materials to build.

[The_Mather1]

You can still use a magnet to hold the ball in place and it can be loaded just like older bolt-action rifles, another way to do it which would be a little harder to make, but more aesthetically pleasing and functional would be to have it pulled further back than the trigger to load it as it is locked by the handle. This would not only give the illusion of how bolt-action rifles are actually cocked, but it would also work as a safety.

[Resistance]

Mather, so I would pull the bolt over the trigger which would lock it in place and then load the ball into the hollow bolt from the top of the gun, the ball would then be held by a magnet and then when the trigger is pullde the slingshot would be able to propel it? I understand that, I don't understand the second bit you said however ideally the actual mechanisms need to be made and assembled in <2 hours while the actual gun I can spend ≤5 hours on (barrel, handle and trigger guard)

 

Archi, using a pinion it would when it was to be fired it wouldn't actually get out of the barrel. It be stuck due to the pinion. I plan on using grease instead of a ratchet or pinion.

[archimage_a]

You are forgetting about the electromagnet.

When that is released there is no connection between the arrow and the pinion, because there would be no connection between the green and black strings.

 

 

Once fired you just have to release the bolt, draw it back to loading position, connect magnet and then draw the bolt to firing position.

[The_Mather1]

The second bit is how to make it slightly more similar to other firearms.

 

I will create a rough model in SketchUp to show you.