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[WIP] [150+ KPH] Tormented Demons...


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#1
Veiva
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Veiva

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Work in Progress
This guide is very much a draft. I don't have it as nicely formatted as it should be, but I'm gonna work on that after I finish the relevant parts.

Introduction
In this guide, I'm not going to elaborate on the super basics. We know what Tormented Demons drop and how dangerous they are. Instead, my guide is to make it more accessible to reach high KPH without much trouble.

You are expected to know the layout of the dungeon. If not, feel free to run down there and pray mage while getting a good idea of the nooks and crannies.

Equipment
Gear is important for any boss, but the best gear for killing Tormented Demons deviates from the standard.

05YwJOj.png

As for an explanation of this gear...

Weapons
Dual wielding is the best for one reason: stacking damage. As explained in the ability bar setup, you want to deal as much damage between switches, and two-handed weapons really don't offer the best abilities or mechanics to do so.

Bolt-based range weapons are hands down the best, ensuring almost 100% accuracy when the Tormented Demon decides to be weak to range. Fire-based magic is best, similarly ensuring almost flawless accuracy when the Tormented Demon is weak to mage.

Melee is horrible here. Too often you have to run in and mess up the lures around the plinth, resulting in you taking unnecessary damage. Similarly, Tormented Demons are never weak to melee weapons--even drygores aren't as accurate as you'd like most of the time, greatly reducing DPS. Therefore, never use melee.

Lastly, to ensure maximum DPS and shortest kills, bring holy water. As explained in the fighting section, you should rarely use any up, and they always knock down the Tormented Demon's shield, 100% of the time. You can attack with range first, and then switch to holy water the next tick, to deal as much damage as possible from the very start, but I find it unreliable and there's a chance the range weapon misses, neutering the small advantage you have.

Armour
First, ([superior] elite) void armour is not the best to achieve the maximum KPH possible because of the increase in healing and prayer potions necessary for hour-long trips. Unless you do not ever get piled by multiple TDs with different combat styles (something that doesn't happen with the strategy employed), there's just not enough inventory space and thus this setup cannot be adjusted without reducing trip length by half.

Therefore, the most viable armour for hour trips is Dragon rider. It greatly reduces the prayer drain, which increases the inventory space available for other stuff. In the (somewhat common) event you get piled by more than two Tormented Demons, it also provides much better armour bonuses and reduces the damage you'll take, even if only slightly. Keep in mind Tormented Demons have pretty high accuracy, so the healing reduction isn't as helpful as the prayer reduction.

Necklace
There's only one necklace you should be using and that's the blood fury necklace. Its siphoning effect pierces the prayers of Tormented Demons targeting you and provides necessary passive healing to survive.

Ring
Ring of Death is most viable here, providing generous passive healing (it has a chance of resorting 500 health whenever a Tormented Demon dies). The adrenaline reducing effect of the asylum surgeon's ring is useless 99 out of 100 times because of the particular ability rotations used. Vigour is unnecessary because there's no need to use ultimate abilities.

Aura
You have a couple choices. Vampyrism is hands down the best, reducing or even eliminating the need to heal. The prayer-reducing (or is it prayer-potion-increasing; to be honest I only use Vampyrism) aura is second best. Penance is useless--you shouldn't be taking that much damage that it becomes useful.

Pocket
IDK... I use a charming imp because I collect the charms (162 blue and 99 crimsons are gotten on average--pretty much the best charm dropper in-game, outside really boring stuff like Glacors [maybe? I don't know the Glacor KPH/charm rates]). If you want to increase DPS, use Elements/Cruelty I guess.

Inventory
This is my fine-tuned inventory:

x0VvHqM.png

KEEP A SPARE SAPPHIRE LANTERN IN YOUR BANK. It will save you in the event YOU DIED.

Comments, from left-to-right, top-to-bottom
  • Excalibur greatly reduces food usage if you use it wisely.
  • Overloads and prayer renewals, of course!I have yet to gain access to the elf city. You can save two inventory slots by doing that and using holy overloads.
  • Since I don't have/use holy overloads, I just use super prayer potions (I know, inefficient overall). If you have holy overloads, replace these with six super restore flasks (or even six prayer potion flasks).
  • Saradomin brews are necessary for the often-but-occasional times when more than one demon is attacking you and you don't or can't switch prayers.
  • Weapon poison++. Does passive damage through prayer, increasing your KPH noticably.
  • Adrenaline potion is used here and there if you happen to need it. With proper ability rotations, you should only need to take one sip at the beginning of the trip.
  • Iron titan is the best familiar to use here, hands down. Steel Titan can and often will use range attacks, greatly damaging your KPH because 1) it will automatically switch the Tormented Demon's prayer to range and so 2) it will reduce KPH (and adrenaline gains because you'll have to rely more on mage), since you can deal more damage than it can just about everytime. Iron Titan uses melee most of the time, a style you won't be using, therefore helping out more ways I can explain, other than the useful extra DPS and forcing melee prayers.
  • Using smoke runes saves an inventory space. They may be expensive but since you'll be using abilities, rarely will they be used up.
  • Spring cleaner increases GP/HR by 600k. Tormented Demons drop lots of rune armour. Lots. Need I explain more?
  • Enhanced ectoplasmator: I just use it to help track/verify my KPH (via prayer XP). Also it keeps the litter off the floor. It's really not efficient otherwise. Because wow 7k prayer xp an hour!!
  • Home teleport tab is used to GTFO when you screw up too much or just to leave after the hour is up
Ability bars
You'll need two ability bars for maximum DPS:

ceSvu9m.png
hHahYY1.png

Other than the mage and range specific differences, they're identical.

Prayers
You should have all three prayers on your bar. I have my mage and range prayers bound to two buttons on my 'gamer mouse', which is useful enough most of the time. In the off chance I have to be within melee distance of a Tormented Demon while they are meleeing, I just click on the melee prayer in the bar. Of course, for action bar keyboard gurus, this probably doesn't matter.

Notice I have Torment on the mage bar and Anguish on the range bar. Using these curses is a massive help, and will increase you DPS (well, of course). When I switch bars, I also switch prayers. This ensures I deal the most damage possible.

Healing
I have saradomin brews on the bar so I can chug on one between attacks, if necessary. I have a button on my mouse that is bound to that slot, which makes it much easier. Also, excalibur is a simple double-tap to heal, which is better than equipping it from the inventory, then switching to gear, then right click -> activate. But that's pretty standard in PvM... I think.

Surge
Sometimes the demons feel like being spread out. I have them target me then surge towards the middle plinth. It helps... once in a while.

Killing a Tormented Demon, a Step-by-Step Mini-Guide
  • Equip holy water.
  • Queue piercing shot and then attack the Tormented Demon.
  • Switch main-hand weapon to match off-hand. From here, use ability rotations to kill demon, switching weapons and ability bars as necessary.
So what are the ability rotations, you may be wondering? Depending on which abilities are on cool down, these are the best rotation, in order:

Range ability rotations
Always start with needle strike. If you deal over 3100 damage, switch to mage (this happens, but not as often as you'd think). On the other hand, if you deal under 3100 damage (which will be the case most of the time), do the following:
  • If you have health to spare: launch bombardment and then immediately queue shadow tendrils. This can result in over 12000 damage, though it will usually do much less.
  • If you don't have health to spare: launch bombardment and then immediately queue piercing short.
  • Launch snapshot. Both hits will land.
  • Launch snipe. Generally, you only do this if all the abilities are on cooldown.
Mage ability rotations
This one is a bit simpler, but also less versatile:
  • Launch concentrated blast and then immediately queue wild magic. Regardless of the damage dealt by concentrated blast, wild magic will hit twice. This means you can deal over 9000 damage, literally, before switching weapons, though most of the time it will be less. If you use a staff, wild magic will not hit the second splash if more than 3100 magic damage was dealt, hence why I cannot stress enough to use dual wielding.
  • Launch asphyxiate and then after the first damage splat appears, queue wrack. Generally, you'll deal two splats of damage from asphyxiate unless the first hits over 3100 plus wrack damage. No other ability should be used over wrack, because they are delayed and thus if the Tormented Demon switches prayers, the attack will be useless.
  • Lauch concentrated blast and then immediately queue dragon's breath. Sometimes you will need to follow up with wrack if this doesn't deal enough damage, however unlikely it may be.
Switching gear
You switch weapons after each rotation, outlined prior, unless the rotation did not do enough damage (suprisingly, this does happen sometimes). Follow up with basics. If your Iron Titan is always attacking, as it should be, this will generally never be a problem.

How to switch gear efficiently
Have the mage and range ability bars bound to a key (I have them bound to 'A' and 'S'). Also have the prayer slot bound to a key (I use 'X'). When you switch bars, immediately press X. At the same time, you should also have equipped the next weapons. Generally, you'll need to click on the first weapon, and when it is switched out of your inventory, equip the next. This seems to eliminate 'dead clicks'. Therefore, don't spam click to equip the next set of weapons, otherwise you'll find you often don't equip one or both of them.

Locations
Stone of Jas plinth (middle, minimal luring, advanced difficulty
[insert video here]

The hands-down best location is the plinth where the Stone of Jas resided. Explaining how to lure them here is kind of difficult--actually, it's very difficult. You'll have to learn from experience. This location is best on worlds of 200 to 400 population (less is worse, more is difficult), otherwise the demons spawn way too quickly and will proceed to make you their indentured servant or just not spawn fast enough, making you wait around.

Try and only have Tormented Demon attacking you. Sometimes you'll have to lure nearby ones around the plinth while killing one. Try and stay away from the plinth so you attract other Tormented Demons. Running around is not efficient and will greatly impact your KPH.

Also you may be attacked by more than one demon. If the demons are using the same style, great! Kill your target ASAP and move on to the next. If they are using different styles, then switch prayers between their attacks. This is not always possible (the attacks may land at the same time), in which case try and move around the plinth until only one demon is attacking you. If that's not possible without attracting more, just heal as necessary and pile through your target.

Try and never have more than two demons attacking you. When they switch styles, it oftentimes means they will massacre you.

I get over 150 KPH on average with Ascension crossbows and Virtus wand + book using this location.

Southern rocks (no luring, medium difficulty)
[insert video here]

The next best location is the southern spot (I recommend this location for advanced-beginners [haha]). Try not to lure them if you can help it, since it'll prepare you for the plinth. I kill the western, then the middle, then the eastern one, and surge back to the western one. At peak efficiency, you're looking at 125 KPH at tier 80 and above. Better weapons are neglible since you are bound by spawn time more than kill time.

Never use the northern spot. It sucks.

Statistics
For those interested, I have logged over 22,000 kills with varying methods and rates. On average and at peak efficiency, I kill about 150 Tormented Demons an hour, using Ascension crossbows and Virtus wand + book, using the plinth spot.

Limb drop rate is approximately 1:250 (claws are also 1:250). Armour drops are rarer, but are generally worth more than claws. You can expect 162 blue and 99 crimsons at 150 KPH (36% of dropping 3 blue charms, 22% of dropping 3 crimson charms).

Since prices are so variable, there's no idea of GP/HR rates. At the moment (2015/01/21), I make shy of 10m GP/HR. Factoring in expenses, it's close to or more than 9m GP/HR.

As of writing, I've recorded, in my latest log starting in July 2014: 92 limb drops, 86 claw drops, and 57 armour shards.

ozXHe7P.png


#2
Stev
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A few things, mate:

Tormented Demon weakness affects the kill very little. Melee will almost always out DPS ranged - especially when considering high-level familiars. Only time my brother's been able to out hit me (and rarely) when he's using ranged and I'm in melee is if he has a superior cruelty.

Abilities such as snipe and asphyxiate shouldn't be used. Bombardment is iffy, as it takes so long to do damage and if damage is done during the animation (perhaps by another player), the hits will not hit through prayer like wild magic/snap shot/assault will.

The ideal abilities for magic are wrack, dragon breath, impact, and wild magic.
If you insist on ranging, piercing shot, needle strike, binding shot, and snap shot.



This is what I do when using melee and magic:
- Weaken
- Assault
- Immediately switch to magic (before you see the hits)
- Wild Magic
- Immediately switch to melee (before you see the hits)
- Destroy
- If the TD is not dead...
- Switch to magic
- Wrack or basic

Steel titan does not only mage/range. If you practice at positioning your titan to where it almost becomes a reflex, placing it on the west side of your target will force it to 4x melee. There's a few tricks to manipulating the steel titan to force it to use various attack styles - or mixtures of each. ;).

If you want a few more tips and ideas, let me know and when I get home from work I'll post a few. :P. But I've gotta get to bed! Good luck with the guide!

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#3
Veiva
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I disagree with your ability usage for the most part. Asphyxiate can hit upwards of 5000 damage before impact. Bombardment does not take too long; it takes exactly one attack later to activate, meaning I stack it with binding shot and can deal up to 6000 or more damage (+ prior piercing shot damage that never hits more than 3100).

Wild magic does not necessarily hit through prayer. Ever hit a 3100+ with the first wild magic blast? The rest will hit 0 because the demon instantly switches. If this changes in the case of a wand versus staff, then fine; but it doesn't happen with a staff.

I haven't used melee [regularly], because I haven't found that it speeds up my kills. I haven't successfully been crashed yet, even though I'm on a lootshare world most of the time, so either the crashers suck I or just out DPS them.

I don't disagree about magic breath, but I find it too situational (I need to be near the demon, and oftentimes [read: most kills] I kill it before it tries to melee me).

Although I was incorrect about the titan, it was only because I meant melee instead of mage (as the magic attack is pretty rare); I know it uses melee. I don't disagree about the titan being useful, I personally cannot manage it because of the absurd APM it requires. I've used it before to decent success, but then I get irritated at the APM requirement.

I'm just wondering how many you kill an hour with your setup? I am successfully getting 110-120 KPH without a titan, with an average of 112.

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#4
Stev
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I'll have to join you on a trip sometime. ;). But, as I said, I was supposed to get to bed and ended up flirting talking with WMX on Skype. Will post a more detailed reply later.

As for the wild magic 3100-0, I've never had that happen. Though, as you said, they may have to do with the wand/singularity, but I doubt it.

09144a99bb.png


#5
JeRambo
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Omg .. I never knew about this holy water thing. I was wondering why I was only getting around 85 KPH with darklight..

I'll try using the holy water. Thanks. :).


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#6
Unknown_Warrior
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How're nihils at TD's?


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Stats and logs

#7
Veiva
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How're nihils at TD's?


Sorry for the late reply! I haven't tried it, but I doubt they're too good for range/mage setups, considering they'll switch the demon's prayers to one you're using.

On a similar note, I think the chaotic staff > Virtus wand + Book (though of course not seismic wand + singularity) largely because you can use Wild Magic followed by Wrack, dealing more damage than Wild Magic alone in the same amount of time. Although the demon will switch prayer if the first hit of Wild Magic is higher than 3100, it's not the norm, so more than not you'll hit with Wrack as well.

Also, for trivia purposes, in the beta, Snipe & co. will knock the prayers down, leading to sub-10 kills with level 90 weapons. Fun fun fun.

ozXHe7P.png


#8
Saradomin_Mage
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Snipe, Havoc, Smash and Dragon Breath actually knock down NPC prayers? Wow, that's quite a change.

6Ij0n.jpg

In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.


#9
Veiva
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Snipe, Havoc, Smash and Dragon Breath actually knock down NPC prayers? Wow, that's quite a change.


I wouldn't be surprised if it were a bug.

In any case, I've done more trials with my fresh ascension crossbows and have managed to get a consistent 120 KPH--at 10 KPH improvement. I'd assume seismics would bring it up that bit more, to maybe 130 KPH. Interesting stuff.

Though, even at 120 KPH, tormented demons seem to not be worth it anymore. Limbs have a hard time selling for 12m (in fact, overnight, my limbs didn't sell for that--but they sold for 11m, so oh well). 7m gp/hr for the effort it takes is not time well spent, when they were nearly 9m gp/hr with less effort before limbs crashed...

edit: I'd like to note I'm a total derp. Virtus wand + book > chaotic staff. I had forgotten to set my off-hand spell and was only using the main-hand spell for damage. Much expert. So dual wield. Very book. Wow.

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#10
Veiva
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So I updated this guide with my new findings, near gear, and the Combat Beta changes (wow, that was a long time ago).

Old guide, for reference:


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#11
Autumntempest
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Would using nox tribrid be practical?
If you constantly rotate, you wouldn't have to worry about your next hit landing on a style that is blocked by the tds' prayers.
You also have a constant stream of thresholds available to you
Of course, this is only when spawn rate is the only factor that's limiting your kills.

#12
Saradomin_Mage
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He needs concentrated blast for his rotation, so dual wield magic is a must.

6Ij0n.jpg

In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.


#13
Autumntempest
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Then would a melee switch be practical?

#14
Veiva
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Would using nox tribrid be practical?
If you constantly rotate, you wouldn't have to worry about your next hit landing on a style that is blocked by the tds' prayers.
You also have a constant stream of thresholds available to you
Of course, this is only when spawn rate is the only factor that's limiting your kills.


I wrote a simulator for TDs. Its logic only supports melee/range switching for the calculations at the moment. I am updating it with hit-chance (currently it assumes 100% hit chance, which isn't far from the truth with tier 90s, but alas, I want accurate simulations!) at the moment, and then moving on to support any variable amount of gear (mage/range, melee/mage, mage/range/melee) and will get back to you then.

However, I do think noxious is less effective than dual wielding. Needle Strike is a flat 5% DPS boost for things like Bombardment, Shadow Tendrils, and Snap Shot's first hit. Wild Magic also will always hit twice with dual-wielding, resulting in massive damage on average compared to staves. Dual-wield switching should be just as efficienct as two-hand switching if you can count ticks and only equip the stuff at the beginning of a tick, so two-handed weapons are actually worse at peak efficiency.

Watch this space!

ozXHe7P.png


#15
Autumntempest
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Would using nox tribrid be practical?
If you constantly rotate, you wouldn't have to worry about your next hit landing on a style that is blocked by the tds' prayers.
You also have a constant stream of thresholds available to you
Of course, this is only when spawn rate is the only factor that's limiting your kills.

I wrote a simulator for TDs. Its logic only supports melee/range switching for the calculations at the moment. I am updating it with hit-chance (currently it assumes 100% hit chance, which isn't far from the truth with tier 90s, but alas, I want accurate simulations!) at the moment, and then moving on to support any variable amount of gear (mage/range, melee/mage, mage/range/melee) and will get back to you then.

However, I do think noxious is less effective than dual wielding. Needle Strike is a flat 5% DPS boost for things like Bombardment, Shadow Tendrils, and Snap Shot's first hit. Wild Magic also will always hit twice with dual-wielding, resulting in massive damage on average compared to staves. Dual-wield switching should be just as efficienct as two-hand switching if you can count ticks and only equip the stuff at the beginning of a tick, so two-handed weapons are actually worse at peak efficiency.

Watch this space!
Pretty intensive clicking though haha
Sorry autocorrect

#16
Veiva
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I just ran a few large simulations. Not like it takes more than 30 seconds to simulate 1000 hours...

1000 simulations of Tormented Demons (1 hour trips, using tier 90 dual-wield of all three styles) is on average 176 kills an hour at peak efficiency. Max kills in an hour during these simulations was 185, min was 168.

1000 simulations of Tormented Demons (1 hour trips, using tier 90 two-handed of all three styles) is on average 173 kills an hour at peak efficiency. Max kills in an hour during these simulations was 182, min was 166.

1000 simulations of Tormented Demons (1 hour trips, using tier 90 dual-wield magic and range weapons) is on average 175 kills an hour at peak efficiency. Max kills in an hour during these simulations was 182, min was 167.

1000 simulations of Tormented Demons (1 hour trips, using tier 90 two-handed magic and range weapons) is on average 169 kills an hour at peak efficiency. Max kills in an hour during these simulations was 179, min was 160.

Some notes:

1. The simulation will complete a rotation even if it may not be the most efficient action (i.e., the Tormented Demon switches prayer mid-rotation). Generally, I can't react fast enough in such an event to make this inaccurate. YMMV.

2. I am not sure what are the best melee rotations. I used Stev's advise, some earlier trial-and-error, and some theory-Scapin' to develop the melee rotations.

3. I used superior elite void armour in these simulations. In reality, it's just about impossible to use in-game because if you get piled by the Tormented Demons, it's good game.

Keep in mind this is just a simulation. I made it as accurate as possible, but I'm sure, in-game, these records can be beat.

edit:

I did more research on how Demons switch their weakness. As it turns out, they spawn with a random weakness (either fire or bolts). Every time they switch prayers, they seem to have a 50:50 chance of switching to either a fire or bolts weakness. This means they can keep the same weakness for portions of a fight, or switch it every other swap. In the previous calculations I assumed 'neutral' weakness because I did not know how this worked, and did not want to skew the results too much (e.g., by assuming the best or worst).

I updated my calculator to reflect these changes. So here's the new data, where each simulation is again 1000 hours:

Tier 90 dual-wield magic, range, and melee: 169 average kills per hour (179 max, 161 min).
Tier 90 two-handed magic, range, and melee: 164 average kills per hour (175 max, 155 min).
Tier 90 dual-wield magic and range: 168 average kills per hour (178 max, 159 min).
Tier 90 two-handed magic and range: 161 kills per hour (170 max, 152 min).

ozXHe7P.png


#17
Autumntempest
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Guess I'm doing really badly at about 80 kills per hour with 2h Mage+ranged nox huh xD
I usually take too much damage for the blood fury' s effect to heal.
I use a iron Titan familiar too

#18
Yoko Kurama
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Riperino. My condolences Veiva, you were the best at this.



#19
Saradomin_Mage
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this is what, the 5th time we've had to relearn combat? rip dude

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#20
Veiva
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this is what, the 5th time we've had to relearn combat? rip dude


And the third time I'm going to have to rewrite this guide... ._.

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