Do YOU believe in God?

[trebor4312]

I fully believe ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åwith the history to back me upÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[keith2k0]

I don't because there is absolutely no evidence remember. "Not real until proven real" I mean seriosly if I said there was a host in my house you would'nt have to prove I didn't the burden of proof would be mine.

[havesometea1]

I fully believe ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åwith the history to back me upÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[trebor4312]

what scares me is that a thread about whether god exists can get to 91 pages :shock: i mean youd think after say oh 15 everyone would of used up thier arguments im sure if anyone could read this entire thread they would find about 40-50 (at extreme max) points repeated about 50 times

[Astralinre]

Ok, I know I've come in rather late to this part of the discussion, but I've been out of town and have something to say to Logic about Mere Christianity.

 

 

 

I always interpreted Lewis's point about all cultures having the same basic values as talking about abstract values, not concrete applications. While not all cultures agree on the things you mentioned, nearly all cultures value honor, loyalty, respect, love, honesty, life, and the like. They simply have different ways of applying and expressing those values.

[Godzira]

I fully believe ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åwith the history to back me upÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[keith2k0]

Wo0t! fundementalists=OWNED!!

[the_blob23]

Nope. None that I can think of. I don't even see a way how Christianity prevents freedom of thought.

 

 

 

Ever hear of the Inquisition? :roll:

 

 

 

Were Christains here and were arguing over wether or not it's real.... I wasn't forced to do it

 

 

 

That's the one of the most laughable arguments that I've ever read. So, basically, Christianity doesn't prevent free thought because you're typing in an online debate? The Chewbacca Defense if I've ever saw one...

[Geordiequeen]

I do beliee in God and that their is something after death but i don't know what that is.

[pianofrieak2]

Christian theology is not only opposed to the scientific spirit; it is opposed to every other form of rational thinking.

 

- H. L. Mencken

 

 

 

Philippians 1:10 says we are to study the Bible so we can use our mind to discern that which is good and that which is evil. Hmm...

 

 

 

In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot.

 

- Thomas Jefferson

 

 

 

Since when does the priest have to be the ONLY teller of the Scriptures?

 

 

 

The Bible and the Church have been the greatest stumbling block in the way of woman's emancipation.

 

- Elizabeth Cady Stanton

 

 

 

Spoken like a true, staunch, liberal feminist.

 

 

 

The Bible's descriptions of the origin of life and morals are obviously fairy tales; its astronomy is terracentric; its notions of the starry universe are childish; its history is epical and legendary: in short, people whose education in these departments is derived from the Bible are so absurdly misinformed as to be unfit for public employment, parental responsibility, or the franchise. As an encyclopedia, therefore, the Bible must be shelved with the first edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica as a record of what men once believed, and a measure of how far they have left their obsolete beliefs behind.

 

- George Bernard Shaw

 

 

 

Go reread insane's post.

 

 

 

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

 

- Siddartha Gautama

 

 

 

I agree completely. Of course, I could also point out to our SCIENTIFIC textbooks and history books that indoctrinate our young kids into the politically correct generation where we abandon the truth to make others "feel good" about themselves. Politically correct, forced tolerance, and relativism are all carrying the civilized nations down to a path of literal government control and quickly approaches the fastest route to the complete loss of freedoms.

 

 

 

 

 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

 

- Carl Sagan

 

 

 

Isn't believing that the entire known universe (as well as an infinite amount theorized) coming from nothing an extraordinary claim? Oh, wait. Of course not.

 

 

 

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.

 

- Richard Dawkins

 

 

 

Why don't you quote me Scripture saying that? Since that's apparently what you're claiming.

 

 

 

What has become of Resheph, Baal, Hadad, Nebo, Dagon, Melek, Yau, Ahijah, Amon-Re, Isis, Osiris, Ptah, Molech? ..... They were gods of the highest dignity - gods of civilized peoples - worshipped and believed in by millions. All were omnipotent, omniscient and immortal. And all are dead.

 

- H.L. Mencken

 

 

 

Satan goes by many names. Here are some of his newer ones: the love of money, unabaited pursuit of sexual pleasure, divorce, selfishness, greed, envy, and desire to get whatever will fill the void that can only be filled by the one true God.

 

 

 

Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth.

 

- H L Mencken

 

 

 

Courage:

 

Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you."

 

Clear thinking:

 

so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ

 

Honesty:

 

Use honest scales and honest weights, an honest ephah and an honest hin. I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt.

 

Fairness:

 

'Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.

 

Love of the truth:

 

Love truth and peace.

[Godzira]

Piano, your post is empty. You say nothing solid to refute the quotes of these great minds and even resort to classification and name calling against Elizabeth Cady Stanton. You just proved my point. Thank you. Especially with this comment,

 

 

 

"I could also point out to our SCIENTIFIC textbooks and history books that indoctrinate our young kids into the politically correct generation where we abandon the truth to make others "feel good" about themselves. Politically correct, forced tolerance, and relativism are all carrying the civilized nations down to a path of literal government control and quickly approaches the fastest route to the complete loss of freedoms."

 

 

 

Loss of whose freedoms? Tolerance and political correctness ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åread respect for othersÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[the_blob23]

 

Philippians 1:10 says we are to study the Bible so we can use our mind to discern that which is good and that which is evil. Hmm...

 

 

 

So you consider the Bible the definitive source of knowledge on good and evil? I think that shows remarkable arrogance.

 

 

 

 

 

The Bible and the Church have been the greatest stumbling block in the way of woman's emancipation.

 

- Elizabeth Cady Stanton

 

 

 

Spoken like a true, staunch, liberal feminist.

 

 

 

 

 

Too bad it's historically true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Go reread insane's post.

 

 

 

Quit name dropping. I've read insane's post, and unlike you, insane actually makes worthwile arguments that add to the debate.

 

 

 

 

I could also point out to our SCIENTIFIC textbooks and history books that indoctrinate our young kids into the politically correct generation where we abandon the truth to make others "feel good" about themselves.

 

 

 

Oh, and we wouldn't want that, would we? Darn Theory of Gravity is indoctrinating our kids! Science is making people demand evidence for claims! Oh, the horror!

 

 

 

Politically correct

 

 

 

Stop whining about political correctness. It doesn't exist. You can say anything you want in the United States or online, but that doesn't mean people aren't going to call you out on your incredibly vacuous statements.

 

 

 

 

forced tolerance, and relativism are all carrying the civilized nations down to a path of literal government control and quickly approaches the fastest route to the complete loss of freedoms.

 

 

 

Forced tolerance? Do you think civil rights are somehow bad? And what is all this blabber about "civilized nations"? Spoken like a true imperialist. Oh, and by the way, it is more likely that our freedom will be lost when people of your ilk control the government, as opposed to these mythical "relativists" that you speak of.

 

 

 

 

Isn't believing that the entire known universe (as well as an infinite amount theorized) coming from nothing an extraordinary claim? Oh, wait. Of course not.

 

 

 

The universe didn't "come from nothing", idiot. Learn some science.

 

 

 

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.

 

- Richard Dawkins

 

 

 

Why don't you quote some Scripture saying that? Since that's apparently what you're claiming.

 

 

 

Are you deliberately attempting to confuse us?

 

 

 

 

Satan goes by many names. Here are some of his newer ones: the love of money, unabaited pursuit of sexual pleasure, divorce, selfishness, greed, envy, and desire to get whatever will fill the void that can only be filled by the one true God.

 

 

 

Uh, those "sins" have been around since time immemorial. Personally, I don't believe that sexual pleasure is so horrendous, but maybe you do.

 

 

 

 

Courage:

 

Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you."

 

Clear thinking:

 

so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ

 

Honesty:

 

Use honest scales and honest weights, an honest ephah and an honest hin. I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt.

 

Fairness:

 

'Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.

 

Love of the truth:

 

Love truth and peace.

 

 

 

Why did you post these irrelevant scripture quotations? I have no problem with scripture quotes as long as they are relevant to the arguments. Yours appear to have been either prefabricated for quick use or randomly selected.

[insane]

Piano, your post is empty. You say nothing solid to refute the quotes of these great minds and even resort to classification and name calling against Elizabeth Cady Stanton. You just proved my point. Thank you. Especially with this comment,

 

 

 

Anyone can find any quote to back up their claim. Just saying "this famous person said this", doesn't make it true. Your post of quotes is just as empty as his refutation. Unless the person in the quote itself proves their opinion, it's completely worthless.

 

 

 

As for quotes from "the other side"; not only are they irrelevant (a bad Christian can say things completely opposite to the heart of Christianity), but I could find quotes just like that from atheists.

[pianofrieak2]

Piano, your post is empty. You say nothing solid to refute the quotes of these great minds and even resort to classification and name calling against Elizabeth Cady Stanton. You just proved my point. Thank you. Especially with this comment,

 

 

 

Anyone can find any quote to back up their claim. Just saying "this famous person said this", doesn't make it true. Your post of quotes is just as empty as his refutation. Unless the person in the quote itself proves their opinion, it's completely worthless.

 

 

 

As for quotes from "the other side"; not only are they irrelevant (a bad Christian can say things completely opposite to the heart of Christianity), but I could find quotes just like that from atheists.

 

 

 

Thank you, insane. That was precisely my point. He quoted famous people, and I gave my perspective on those quotes.

 

 

 

Did I support my viewpoints? Perhaps with Scripture but that's useless here. I did that on purpose to show how empty his entire post was.

[Godzira]

Piano, your post is empty. You say nothing solid to refute the quotes of these great minds and even resort to classification and name calling against Elizabeth Cady Stanton. You just proved my point. Thank you. Especially with this comment,

 

 

 

Anyone can find any quote to back up their claim. Just saying "this famous person said this", doesn't make it true. Your post of quotes is just as empty as his refutation. Unless the person in the quote itself proves their opinion, it's completely worthless.

 

 

 

As for quotes from "the other side"; not only are they irrelevant (a bad Christian can say things completely opposite to the heart of Christianity), but I could find quotes just like that from atheists.

 

 

 

Quite frankly IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m not going to spend the time to give you a full bibliography but here are a few just to lend legitimacy.

 

 

 

The fundamentalists deny that evolution has taken place; they deny that the earth and the universe as a whole are more than a few thousand years old, and so on. There is ample scientific evidence that the fundamentalists are wrong in these matters, and that their notions of cosmogony have about as much basis in fact as the Tooth Fairy has. [isaac Asimov, quoted in 2000 Years of Disbelief, Famous People with the Courage to Doubt, by James A. Haught, Prometheus Books, 1996]

 

 

 

In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot.

 

- Thomas Jefferson The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, in 20 volumes

 

 

 

I am not sighting these quotes as proof, merely as the opinion of others of the day and of those with first hand knowledge of the times that you or I cannot have.

 

 

 

As far as the quotes from the other side, those are not random christians those were representatives of the church and the policy makers of the day.

[insane]

 

I am not sighting these quotes as proof, merely as the opinion of others of the day and of those with first hand knowledge of the times that you or I cannot have.

 

 

 

As far as the quotes from the other side, those are not random christians those were representatives of the church and the policy makers of the day.

 

 

 

I completely agree with this. My point was merely that I'm sure other people "of the day" have other opinions as well - you just selected the opinions you agreed with.

 

 

 

Even though they were representatives of the church and policy makers, I disagree with them. The church has a pretty sick history, but that is in spite of the Bible and Christian principles, not because of them. Don't believe me? Pick up a New Testament sometime, I'm sure you'll find that the church rarely follows Christian principles, which is pretty sad.

[the_blob23]

 

Did I support my viewpoints?

 

 

 

No.

 

 

 

Perhaps with Scripture but that's useless here. I did that on purpose to show how empty his entire post was.

 

 

 

So you made completely unsubstantiated claims that have been repeatedly smacked down to paradoxically prove your point? Or is it because you've been beaten up badly in your previous post and now need a statement to save face?

[Godzira]

 

I am not sighting these quotes as proof, merely as the opinion of others of the day and of those with first hand knowledge of the times that you or I cannot have.

 

 

 

As far as the quotes from the other side, those are not random christians those were representatives of the church and the policy makers of the day.

 

 

 

I completely agree with this. My point was merely that I'm sure other people "of the day" have other opinions as well - you just selected the opinions you agreed with.

 

 

 

Even though they were representatives of the church and policy makers, I disagree with them. The church has a pretty sick history, but that is in spite of the Bible and Christian principles, not because of them. Don't believe me? Pick up a New Testament sometime, I'm sure you'll find that the church rarely follows Christian principles, which is pretty sad.

 

 

 

I wasnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t just fishing for quotes, I was selecting quotes only from those that I felt to be highly credible sources. If you feel that your sources are equally credible then by all means feel free to post the quotes here then. I am fully willing to examine the statements you present as well.

 

 

 

I think that you have highlighted wonderfully the problem with religion, individual religion results in individual opinion. Unfortunately, when these religious people join into groups of religious people, the religion takes a back seat to power. If religion was truly based on principal and not acquisition of power there would be no need for missionaries.

[bull912000]

I fully believe ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åwith the history to back me upÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[Godzira]

I fully believe ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åwith the history to back me upÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[pianofrieak2]

 

Did I support my viewpoints?

 

 

 

No.

 

 

 

Perhaps with Scripture but that's useless here. I did that on purpose to show how empty his entire post was.

 

 

 

So you made completely unsubstantiated claims that have been repeatedly smacked down to paradoxically prove your point? Or is it because you've been beaten up badly in your previous post and now need a statement to save face?

 

 

 

Wow, man, I don't know what your problem is, but you need to calm down and take a breather. Just because we disagree doesn't give you the option to come in and start flaming every Christian comment. Grow up.

 

 

 

Godzira: Why wouldn't we need missionaries? I'm confused. Also, since when do Christians burn books? I've only heard of a practice similar to that in communist China which is staunchly atheistic. But I'd love to look at your source.

[Brinner]

i believe in god and evolution..

 

 

 

we know evolution exists....look at lucy! and look at the dinosaurs...

 

 

 

or god made it up to fool us...

 

 

 

but of course we dont know much of god...(im a christian and ill ignore u godzira.. )

 

 

 

for all we know god is a 5 year old kid playing with his dads "create your own universe" set..

 

 

 

or perhaps some crazy guy did mak it up...

 

or someone made him up so they will be good and the world wouldnt be in chaos... perhaps we could even be in someones big dream..and once the dreamer wakes up we will no longer exists....

 

 

 

perhaps god even stopped bothering with us perhaps hes just waiting for us to all die and build up again..perhaps hes watching over another creature that is like a human perhaps an alien like race..

 

 

 

u believe u dont have to go to church to go to heaven...you just have to be good....and follow his rules...

 

:)

[yonman14]

 

No itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s not an extraordinary claim and it is one that we have evidence for which is how we arrived at that hypothesis. But, as I have been told over and over in this thread Christians need no proof of god.

 

 

 

Here's where you're misunderstanding things. Science is concerned with how things work or came about. Therefore validation is needed for scientific beliefs. Also, you can't have true PROOF in science, as science is really about explaining what man's best guess about how things work is. Another comment: There is no evidence for the creation of something from nothing. There is evidence for the Big Bang, but that does not explain the existence of that very first atom and the forces (or maybe even only one force) acting on it.

[pianofrieak2]

i believe in god and evolution..

 

 

 

we know evolution exists....look at lucy! and look at the dinosaurs...

 

 

 

or god made it up to fool us...

 

 

 

but of course we dont know much of god...(im a christian and ill ignore u godzira.. )

 

 

 

for all we know god is a 5 year old kid playing with his dads "create your own universe" set..

 

 

 

or perhaps some crazy guy did mak it up...

 

or someone made him up so they will be good and the world wouldnt be in chaos... perhaps we could even be in someones big dream..and once the dreamer wakes up we will no longer exists....

 

 

 

perhaps god even stopped bothering with us perhaps hes just waiting for us to all die and build up again..perhaps hes watching over another creature that is like a human perhaps an alien like race..

 

 

 

u believe u dont have to go to church to go to heaven...you just have to be good....and follow his rules...

 

:)

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but how does your view make you Christian? That goes against everything the Bible says. :-k

[Godzira]

 

Did I support my viewpoints?

 

 

 

No.

 

 

 

Perhaps with Scripture but that's useless here. I did that on purpose to show how empty his entire post was.

 

 

 

So you made completely unsubstantiated claims that have been repeatedly smacked down to paradoxically prove your point? Or is it because you've been beaten up badly in your previous post and now need a statement to save face?

 

 

 

Wow, man, I don't know what your problem is, but you need to calm down and take a breather. Just because we disagree doesn't give you the option to come in and start flaming every Christian comment. Grow up.

 

 

 

Godzira: Why wouldn't we need missionaries? I'm confused. Also, since when do Christians burn books? I've only heard of a practice similar to that in communist China which is staunchly atheistic. But I'd love to look at your source.

 

 

 

ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅOn Sunday evening, members of the Harvest Assembly of God Church in Penn Township sing songs as they burn books, videos and CDs that they have judged offensive to their God.ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ