Introduce Rares an unfair Advantage?

[Systemless]

Introduce Rares an unfair Advantage?

 

 

 

I want to sketch a few thoughts which lead to the conlusion that rares introduce a kind of unfair advantage into the game. Now before flaming me for this unpopular conclusion, please read through all of it and give your critics about the sketched thoughts. Do not give any critics about my person or my account, they are NOT for discussion.

 

 

 

From history we know that rare items increase by about a factor 10x in value measured in gp within one year. This increase is driven by the limited amount of rare items and the increasing amount of gp in the game. This could be called inflation on the gp as well. Looking only at the gp and the rares in game, the gp gets devalued (by a factor of 10x a year) while the rares remains the same. This is one side of the runescape market.

 

 

 

On the other side we have the shops and the high alching. In this part of the market the value of one gp remains approximatly the same (slightly decreasing, but this can be neglected). Here we compare the gp one obtains from an hour of work or the items one can buy in shops for gps. There are still more and more gps in the market, but here a gp does NOT get devalued. The shops and the highalching charge/give about the same amount of gp since years.

 

 

 

But the gp in both "sides" of the market are actually the same. This means we have an inflation on the gps, causing the rares prices in gp to go up, but all the npc shops do NOT increase there prices.

 

 

 

On the one hand this fixed shop prices have the nice property that I can earn 1m from highalching today, and in two years I can still buy good items from shops for this. This would not be the case with real inflation. So far it is fair, one can invest some time and get an appropriate reward for it (now or later).

 

 

 

But at the same time one could have bought rares for that 1m and sold it for 100m after two years. Since the shops ignore the inflation one would be able to get 100x the reward. This seems ruther unfair. Lets look at the situation after two years. One player has earned his cash one day before he is going to buy items with it, while the other player has earned it two years ago. They worked both exactly the same, but still one of the two gets 100x the reward.

 

 

 

Two summarize, we have the following setting: A stable currency of approximatly constant amount beeing the rares. A strongly inflating currency beeing the gp. A normal market between rares and gp. A fixed price exchange between player time and gp. A fixed price exchange between reward and gp. This leads to an unfair game, where the reward you get for your work does not stay the same with time.

 

 

 

To fix this situation we could try to remove the increase in amount gps, resulting in a constant gp to rares ratio. This is what is beeing tried atm with introducing additional cash sinks. It is very difficult system to blanance, and I doubt that it will be successfull. If successfull the inflation on the gp would be removed and we would be back to a fair game. But the game is in its very foundations desgined to have an open market. One where large amounts of gp can flow in and out. And I fear the balancing will fail.

 

 

 

There is another solution. If the ratio between rares and gp is constant in the game (with respect to player demand) we would have again a fair game. To achieve this we need to integreat the rares into the open system concept of Runescape. Making them no longer rare but still expensive. Adding a shop selling rares a bit above the current market prices would stop the rares from further rising in price once they hit the shop price. From then on players would automatically buy new additional rares from that shop as needed to compete with the increased amount of gp in the game. Current "rares owner" would loose nothing. Almost nothing, the only thing they would loose is the unfair advantage compared to newcomers.

 

 

 

This is only a sketch of thoughts. Do not flame me. And yes the discussion is not about me or wether I can afford rares or not (actually I can).

 

 

 

.: Systemless :.

[bigmoneyak]

I see this as you hijacking on the other thread of all rares need to be taken out of the game.

 

 

 

As there will be no more of em, people want them. If you had the foresight to get them when they were still obtainable good for you.

 

 

 

Having them does'nt give you any real advantage over others. Cashing them in however will give you many advatages in training other skills.

 

 

 

To say that isn't fair is jealousy. Those that played and collected them when they were dropped, and kept them all this time, deserve the prestige and advantages available to them after all this time playing the game.

 

 

 

Those that are new to the game or want to have one now either have to work their butts off to get one, or be envious.

 

 

 

It makes the game addicting and more fun knowing that you always have something to work towards. Other games you play it and beat it. Soon you forget it. RS thankfully, through rares, allows us to always have something we can aspire to get and or achieve.

 

 

 

The Axe Man Has Spoken

[frogact]

no. They are just little pixel items in a made up digital world that people get way too worked up over.

[Systemless]

I see you got some very convincing arguments there. :lol:

 

 

 

.: Systemless :.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Rares can't be an unfair advantage. Only the people that wanted it made it unfair by paying exorbient prices for it.

[Satenza]

Go read the other thread.

 

 

 

Basically the exact same thing you say except with ideas already discussed/flamed.

[Adam007]

You proposed an idea to fix this problem. It's not a problem. It doesn't need fixing.

 

It might be true that rares are an advantage. I have over 600mil from them and I earned at max 10% of that.

 

 

 

The thing is, who says life has to be fair? Where the heck do we have to come to an agreement that everythign in the world has to be levelled down for everyone. That once variables come into play that favor someone they have to be removed.

 

 

 

You want fairness? You want everyone to be the same, do the same work, get the same output? Go to communist Russia.

 

 

 

Sorry to be so abrupt, but come on. They were put in the game, they don't need to be taken out. They might be an advantage, but why does an advantage have to make things unfair? Does someone owning a party hat infringe upon you? No, they have their advantage, and you can get your own. It's not like party hats are the only item in the game that has advantages.

 

Is it unfair that a player who has more money can buy a dragon item to have more defense than rune? It's an advantage.

 

But then the word 'fair' comes into play. You would say a party hat is an 'unfair' advantage. I'm not going to even touch that word, because it's so hard to really define, but you can't just tie 'unfair' with 'advantage' so easily.

 

 

 

You might argue that players who played early have an advantage because they were able to get party hats and others weren't. That's true. But why is that wrong?

 

There are plenty occasions where being the early bird gets the worm. Early gold diggers who came to life California probably got the most gold because they were around there first. Does that mean the government should take away their gold because there's no more left for new people to mine themselves? Of course not.

 

 

 

There are variables in life. THere are advantages. There are things that aren't fair in life. You have to deal with these kinds of variables. If life was completely fair in every single way you'd get bored out of your mind.

[Systemless]

I see this as you hijacking on the other thread of all rares need to be taken out of the game.

 

 

 

You can see this as whatever you like. But this is not hijacking. Whatever you mean with "hijacking on that other thread" in this seperate thread. It's about rares as well yes, that's all.

 

 

 

 

Having them does'nt give you any real advantage over others. Cashing them in however will give you many advatages in training other skills.

 

 

 

I did talk about there presence of rares in Runescape giving an unfair advantage to players that play the game over a longer time period compared to players that play the same amount of time, but within a shorter period.

 

 

 

 

To say that isn't fair is jealousy.

 

Why it is jealousy? I have given clear arguments why it is unfair. You need to remove those arguments first.

 

 

 

Those that played and collected them when they were dropped, and kept them all this time, deserve the prestige and advantages available to them after all this time playing the game.

 

 

 

You do not need to play the game more to get the advantage. You need just to have played it over a longer period of time, to get the advantage.

 

 

 

Those that are new to the game or want to have one now either have to work their butts off to get one, or be envious.

 

 

 

Those new have to work by FAR more than anyone else has for them in the past. I would call this unfair.

 

 

 

It makes the game addicting and more fun knowing that you always have something to work towards.

 

 

 

No it doesn't. How should I motivate me to work 100 hours in two years when I know that I could have achieved the same with 1 hour today?

 

 

 

.: Systemless :.

[Systemless]

You proposed an idea to fix this problem. It's not a problem. It doesn't need fixing.

 

 

 

As I outlined it does introduce an unfair advantage. And that's something that needs fixing.

 

 

 

The thing is, who says life has to be fair? Where the heck do we have to come to an agreement that everythign in the world has to be levelled down for everyone. That once variables come into play that favor someone they have to be removed.

 

 

 

You want fairness? You want everyone to be the same, do the same work, get the same output? Go to communist Russia.

 

 

 

Ok, so you agree that I get out my little macroing codes to train without beeing at the computer? Its just a little unfair advantage, but why level it out?

 

 

 

They might be an advantage, but why does an advantage have to make things unfair?

 

 

 

An advantage alone is no problem. But the advantage that players have that played this game now towards those that will start in two years (and play the same total amount of time) can not be accessed by those starting in two years. So its unfair.

 

 

 

Does someone owning a party hat infringe upon you? No, they have their advantage, and you can get your own.

 

 

 

I have my own. And this is not the topic.

 

 

 

Is it unfair that a player who has more money can buy a dragon item to have more defense than rune? It's an advantage.

 

But then the word 'fair' comes into play.

 

 

 

Yes, getting the cash and buying a dragon items stands open to all players. It is an advantage open to all, making it fair.

 

 

 

There are plenty occasions where being the early bird gets the worm. Early gold diggers who came to life California probably got the most gold because they were around there first. Does that mean the government should take away their gold because there's no more left for new people to mine themselves? Of course not.

 

 

 

Real life is not a game. And yes real life is unfair. But why do we need to make this game unfair as well? And above all punish players for some unfair advantages while we tolarate others?

 

 

 

.: Systemless :.

[Systemless]

Go read the other thread.

 

 

 

Basically the exact same thing you say except with ideas already discussed/flamed.

 

 

 

Done, I read most of it (the posts with thought). And yes its about rares as well. But the arguments and proposals are different.

 

 

 

.: Systemless :.

[Adam007]

So your basic premise is that people who entered the game are at a disadvantage to accumulating a large amount of gp through being able to get party hats.

 

 

 

Money's easier to come by. Party hats and gp have stayed at a pretty much constant relationship. Party hats costed less back then, but as cheap as it appears because money was worth more back then.

 

But lets just say for a second that new players truly are at a disadvantage.

 

 

 

You know what I say? I say it evens out. And isn't that what we want apparently? Everyone to have equal opportunity?

 

Well tell me this. Why is it that new players can get xp so easily compared to when we had to play back in rs1? Where's our compensation? Not that I expect any, but you're all up for levelling the playing field for peopel with advantages, so why not make newer players get a lower percentage of xp for what they do to compensate for the fact that in rs2 things are so much faster to level? Isn't that an unfair advantage? Maybe, just maybe, the unfair advantage of party hats and older players can be countered by the unfair advantage that newer players have in that they can put in less time and get more xp than we did?

 

 

 

I could find tons of 'unfair advantages' related to timing. What about people that start a quest earlier than someone else who couldn't log on that day?

 

Does he have an unfair advantage because he had use of some training area when it was emptier and nobody reached it yet?

 

What about people who reached skills before other people did and sold items they made for more money than what they really should be?

 

Unfair too, what can we do about that one?

 

Don't try countering that point either, since it does relate to time as the party hat example does, the premise being that since they didn't have the tiem to start as early as some people did they should have the same opportunity.

 

They had a different join date with the party hat situation. Some people have a different date they're able to get to their computer and log in to do an update.

 

So anyway, back to a more central point. You say that it's not fair that they'll never have the same opportunities some people had two years ago when they started.

 

Know what? When I started, gp was scarce. Making 1k took time. I can't take the advantage a level 3 has now and apply it to my younger self back then.

 

Basically, they have their advantages, and other people have other advantages. I'll recognize that it's an advantage. I'll recognize that in some perspectives it can be seen as unfair. But that doesn't mean it needs fixing, because it's more than just a one dimensional issue, as I just brought up.

[Duke_Freedom]

The real issue, as you already mentioned, is actually the huge inflation problem of the game, which may have been solved for a big part by the introduction of construction now. The huge inflation was the main reason why rares were going up so fast in price. Admitted, even without any inflation, rares will go up on the long-term, just slower.

 

 

 

While I can see your point that rares allow people to get "rich while being asleep", I do not see that as a negative something. Everyone is free to participate in the rares market if they want, and investing in rares is not completely riskless to remind you about that.

 

Furthermore, from a educational point of view, it learns people that sparing money is rewarding, I think a lot of people in real life can learn a lot from that ;).

 

 

 

Therefore I don't agree rares are an "unfair" advantage. Everyone has the ability to buy and sell them as they like. They are also an interesting addition to the game's economy.

 

 

 

Ok, so you agree that I get out my little macroing codes to train without beeing at the computer? Its just a little unfair advantage, but why level it out?

 

 

 

You can't compare using the game mechanics with breaking the rules.

 

 

 

But the advantage that players have that played this game now towards those that will start in two years (and play the same total amount of time) can not be accessed by those starting in two years. So its unfair.

 

 

 

People who will start playing in 2 years will start out with all their skills at 1. People who start playing now will have levels ~80 or so by then. Isn't that an (unfair) advantage to the person starting in 2 years either? No, in my definition it isn't. Using your logic I would say it is, though.

[Clan_Chat_Op]

i'll be the first to say it's unfair.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I own a phat.

[Systemless]

So your basic premise is that people who entered the game are at a disadvantage to accumulating a large amount of gp through being able to get party hats.

 

And with disadvantage to get gp come all the disadvantages on those skills where cash helps a lot for training.

 

 

 

Money's easier to come by. Party hats and gp have stayed at a pretty much constant relationship.

 

I would say that's wrong. Two years agon it was easily possible to make 100k per hour (even with nooby skills). Two years now since, it is not at all possible to make 100k * 100 = 10m per hour. Not by far. And even if the factor 10 is too extrem. 2.5m per hour is still no way.

 

 

 

Party hats costed less back then, but as cheap as it appears because money was worth more back then.

 

But lets just say for a second that new players truly are at a disadvantage.

 

It was worth more back than (which I admited in the first post already). But still compared to the increase rate of 10x per year it can be neglected. Because it may be a factor of about 1.5x per year.

 

 

 

Why is it that new players can get xp so easily compared to when we had to play back in rs1?

 

I never played rs1. I believe you that xp was hard to get back then. But never the less, don't forget that most of the old rsc players have been at a far lower level. And not every xp became faster. And those that became faster xp: Yes that's a point I am very unhappy with as well.

 

 

 

Maybe, just maybe, the unfair advantage of party hats and older players can be countered by the unfair advantage that newer players have in that they can put in less time and get more xp than we did?

 

It can't really. There are many old players that missed the rares advantage. And on the other hand there are quite a few that took the rares advantage without training for a long time on rsc.

 

 

 

What about people that start a quest earlier than someone else who couldn't log on that day?

 

Does he have an unfair advantage because he had use of some training area when it was emptier and nobody reached it yet?

 

Quests are neglectable. Too easy to short.

 

 

 

 

 

What about people who reached skills before other people did and sold items they made for more money than what they really should be?

 

Unfair too, what can we do about that one?

 

Very big problem, you are very right at that point. Thats a super unfair advantage there as well (but with solutions for the furture as well). With rares I talk about the furture only. The past is the past. But there is no need to keep going with the same mistakes.

 

 

 

Know what? When I started, gp was scarce. Making 1k took time. I can't take the advantage a level 3 has now and apply it to my younger self back then.

 

Beeing a level 3 is not easy. And for those starting now at level 3 making the first 1k still takes time.

 

 

 

Basically, they have their advantages, and other people have other advantages. I'll recognize that it's an advantage. I'll recognize that in some perspectives it can be seen as unfair. But that doesn't mean it needs fixing, because it's more than just a one dimensional issue, as I just brought up.

 

 

 

There are more than this rares aspect. But I still have the opinion that one needs to remove one unfairness after the other instead of keeping it known unfair and hoping it levels out somehow.

 

 

 

.: Systemless :.

[Systemless]

The real issue, as you already mentioned, is actually the huge inflation problem of the game, which may have been solved for a big part by the introduction of construction now. The huge inflation was the main reason why rares were going up so fast in price. Admitted, even without any inflation, rares will go up on the long-term, just slower.

 

I personally fear that the effect of construction is not big enough. But I still hope that there will be some balance.

 

 

 

 

While I can see your point that rares allow people to get "rich while being asleep", I do not see that as a negative something. Everyone is free to participate in the rares market if they want,

 

The problem is that if I start playing now, I won't be able to start investing a few years back. That's where I see the unfair point.

 

 

 

 

and investing in rares is not completely riskless to remind you about that.

 

I am very aware of that (from my own bad experience). But in the long run, assuming there won't be another dupe, it is quite safe.

 

 

 

 

Furthermore, from a educational point of view, it learns people that sparing money is rewarding, I think a lot of people in real life can learn a lot from that ;).

 

True point. The not so good educational point is, that it learns as well, that making cash with your own hands (coal mining) does not pay off. Investing and watching it grow is the way to go. I am not so happy about this point.

 

 

 

Therefore I don't agree rares are an "unfair" advantage. Everyone has the ability to buy and sell them as they like. They are also an interesting addition to the game's economy.

 

Interesting addition yes, but due to the lack to go back in time, the ways the rares market can be accessed are very different (unfairly).

 

 

 

 

Ok, so you agree that I get out my little macroing codes to train without beeing at the computer? Its just a little unfair advantage, but why level it out?

 

 

 

You can't compare using the game mechanics with breaking the rules.

 

 

 

 

The rule is there to avoid the unfair advantage. All I wanted to point out is that having unfair advantages in the game is not the way to go. That's why this rule is there, it's illegal for a reason. And if rares are really an unfair advantage then they would have to be taken care of as well. I don't compare on the level of legality at the current situation. That on is clear. Macroing is no legal, rares are legal.

 

 

 

 

People who will start playing in 2 years will start out with all their skills at 1. People who start playing now will have levels ~80 or so by then. Isn't that an (unfair) advantage to the person starting in 2 years either? No, in my definition it isn't. Using your logic I would say it is, though.

 

No in my logic it is no unfair advantage either. If both invest the same amount of total playing time they get to the same point (more or less).

 

 

 

Btw. thx for replying, I appreciate it very much. I am basically very open to any arguments. For me this is personally something I am very upset with and that needs to be cleared up. If it turns out not to be unfair I am happy as well. I just have a problem with my motivation to play on with my current view of the things.

 

 

 

.: Systemless :.

[desipardesi]

 

 

 

If you think its unfair to own a rare, how fair is it to make those who own one to give it up? or to sell it cheap?

 

 

 

If everyone played "fair" and with the same abilities, how boring would RS be?

 

 

 

How unfair is it that new players get to use places like the void knight mini-game and barrows to train and make money from a much lower level as compared to those who started a lot earlier and had to level at a much slower place?

 

 

 

RS is a game. If you cant play by the rules of the game, pick a different game. If you want to play the game and still cry about its rules, choose the rants section. Its full of such sob stories.

[Duke_Freedom]

Only going to adres one thing you said:

 

 

 

People who will start playing in 2 years will start out with all their skills at 1. People who start playing now will have levels ~80 or so by then. Isn't that an (unfair) advantage to the person starting in 2 years either? No, in my definition it isn't. Using your logic I would say it is, though.

 

 

 

No in my logic it is no unfair advantage either. If both invest the same amount of total playing time they get to the same point (more or less).

 

 

 

Well the problem is that that isn't necessarily true. The best example would be that the first 99 rune smithers made millions upon millions from the skill. Nowadays, any new 99 rune smither is not going to make anywhere as much as them in the same amount of time - that's not completely "fair" either (yes it may be a bit extreme example, on a lower level it is possible to come up with similiar comparisons though, like saying that it isn't "fair" that people are generally able to train skills faster now then could 2 years ago - or the other way around).

 

 

 

Either way, I can understand your point of view as you do have a valid point. Personally I just don't consider it to be more important then the positive sides that rares also have though... So I guess we should agree to respectfully disagree. ;)

[Adam007]

So your basic premise is that people who entered the game are at a disadvantage to accumulating a large amount of gp through being able to get party hats.

 

And with disadvantage to get gp come all the disadvantages on those skills where cash helps a lot for training.

 

 

 

Money's easier to come by. Party hats and gp have stayed at a pretty much constant relationship.

 

I would say that's wrong. Two years agon it was easily possible to make 100k per hour (even with nooby skills). Two years now since, it is not at all possible to make 100k * 100 = 10m per hour. Not by far. And even if the factor 10 is too extrem. 2.5m per hour is still no way.

 

 

 

Party hats costed less back then, but as cheap as it appears because money was worth more back then.

 

But lets just say for a second that new players truly are at a disadvantage.

 

It was worth more back than (which I admited in the first post already). But still compared to the increase rate of 10x per year it can be neglected. Because it may be a factor of about 1.5x per year.

 

 

 

Why is it that new players can get xp so easily compared to when we had to play back in rs1?

 

I never played rs1. I believe you that xp was hard to get back then. But never the less, don't forget that most of the old rsc players have been at a far lower level. And not every xp became faster. And those that became faster xp: Yes that's a point I am very unhappy with as well.

 

 

 

Maybe, just maybe, the unfair advantage of party hats and older players can be countered by the unfair advantage that newer players have in that they can put in less time and get more xp than we did?

 

It can't really. There are many old players that missed the rares advantage. And on the other hand there are quite a few that took the rares advantage without training for a long time on rsc.

 

 

 

What about people that start a quest earlier than someone else who couldn't log on that day?

 

Does he have an unfair advantage because he had use of some training area when it was emptier and nobody reached it yet?

 

Quests are neglectable. Too easy to short.

 

 

 

 

 

What about people who reached skills before other people did and sold items they made for more money than what they really should be?

 

Unfair too, what can we do about that one?

 

Very big problem, you are very right at that point. Thats a super unfair advantage there as well (but with solutions for the furture as well). With rares I talk about the furture only. The past is the past. But there is no need to keep going with the same mistakes.

 

 

 

Know what? When I started, gp was scarce. Making 1k took time. I can't take the advantage a level 3 has now and apply it to my younger self back then.

 

Beeing a level 3 is not easy. And for those starting now at level 3 making the first 1k still takes time.

 

 

 

Basically, they have their advantages, and other people have other advantages. I'll recognize that it's an advantage. I'll recognize that in some perspectives it can be seen as unfair. But that doesn't mean it needs fixing, because it's more than just a one dimensional issue, as I just brought up.

 

 

 

There are more than this rares aspect. But I still have the opinion that one needs to remove one unfairness after the other instead of keeping it known unfair and hoping it levels out somehow.

 

 

 

.: Systemless :.

 

I'm multitasking with something else so I'm not going to pull apart thigns quote by quote, I'm just gonna say that I'm talking over two years ago in which things were really hard. As a level three nowadays you can get a membership and run natures for people and make hundreds of thousands of gp per hour. When I was a level 3 I got my coins killing cows and men. I don't want to take the nolstagia trip because that's annoying to people, but there really is a massive advantage nowadays compared to when I trained. You can get upwards of 90k combat xp an hour now - back then it was like 30k an hour for the best trainers. Just about every possible skill has been made easier in rs2, and I probably coudl come up with even better examples. And I don't get what you meant when you said: "don't forget that most of the old rsc players have been at a far lower level"

 

You said: "Quests are neglectable. Too easy to short." - That was one example, but it can be applied in bigger areas, and I only used it as a simplification to get my point across.

 

"Beeing a level 3 is not easy. And for those starting now at level 3 making the first 1k still takes time."

 

Again, any level 3 member can make tons of cash running natures.

 

"The past is the past."

 

True and all, but that doesn't nullify the fact that in the past I had disadvantages compared to what exists now that can't be fixed obviously, so why should current advantages be cut off?

[Systemless]

About the first poeple to get up in a skill to get a good reward while the late comers won't get anything at all usually: This is the second big problem I see. Very true. My view on that problem is that the reward should be more on non-tradeble features. It is a problem and it should be fixed as well (but it's too long to discuss here).

 

 

 

Which would be the the positive sides of rares that would be destroyed by a rares shop? I see only two things changed. You can no longer make a profit from investing on them long term (ok those profiting from this will of course disagree with all). You can still make some "profit" by using your cash wisely and not wasting it all for useless things (educational aspect partly still kept). And there is no longer an "always moving upward" goal to achieve. But those are usually the players that reached it already that are happy with this one. To the shop one could add "new" more expensive "rares" for those that have beaten all (would be even better than the current situation). So the only thing really lost would be a few items less to merchant with, or have I missed something?

 

 

 

.: Systemless :.

[Systemless]

Yes I agree that it was a lot harder to train back in rsc. The only thing slightly (only slightly) relativating this was, that firstly players in runescape now remember the rsc days as their low level days usually. I started in rs2 and still I remeber everything beeing super slow at the begining, but still it has been almost the same as now. My second note was that a player starting new with runescape will mess around as everyone did in the begining. It will take some (longer) time till he finds out about natures and all (and many including me played 0.75 years f2p at the beginning). So his first 1k will still be hard, even though they wouldn't need to be. Back at your time I am sure there would have been the one or other better "job" to do as well. But still your point is valid.

 

 

 

 

True and all, but that doesn't nullify the fact that in the past I had disadvantages compared to what exists now that can't be fixed obviously, so why should current advantages be cut off?.

 

I would say that your disadvantages in the past are more then compensated for by today. The big step in difficulty has been rsc to rs2. That is in the past, can't be really changed and has been compensated for (more or less). But for the future we could just stop the rares prices from further rising. Nothing more.

 

 

 

.: Systemless :.

[NightDemon]

But for the future we could just stop the rares prices from further rising. Nothing more.

 

 

 

.: Systemless :.

 

 

 

That's exactly the point.

 

A friend of mine said that he liked the old holiday drops a lot more than the recent drops. I said to him that he only liked them more because they are worth so freaking much. Because the new drops are bind on pick up, they aren't worth anything and people dont like them as much.

 

 

 

From What I read above ( dont know which reply), that it keeps you going, to finally be able to obtain such a rare item is definitely true. And I think that;s the ONLY reason jagex hasnt made them bind on pick up yet. Personally I think it's really lame. Because rares exploided in worth. Up untill 1 year ago, masks were not more worth then 300k. and a few months later the price rose by a factor 10, and sice than by a factor 40 to 50. Have you ever seen that happen to a dragon longsword? Going from 100k to 10 million, in a few months?

 

 

 

It's just liek in football, footballplayers cost milions because 1 idiotic club bought a player for a few million a long time ago. And with that the standard has been set. Nowadays all reasonable players are worth millions just because they cant be sold when clubs offer less.

 

 

 

Jagex should really make those things bind on pick up or give new phats and masks in an upcoming year. Cause now it's giving people false hopes on getting one which is allmost impossible because the price raises so freaking fast.

 

So they want to motivate people in destroying there life in doing hours and hours and more hours of useless crap that gives a lot of money to be able to buy a phat after a year or more of work.

 

And unfortinately I am one of those persons...It makes me sick that I want to do so much for such a freaking useless item that I will probably never wear (have 2 santas and 1 mask in my bank which i never wear) just because I want a member of the jagex comunnity 4 years ago?!

 

 

 

Good luck in 2 years when a phat is worth 10 billion. And no this is not a joke, I've seen it in the past, those prices will keep getting up by numerous factors in a short time. It's something I think jagex is responsable for and they are the only ones who can make this stop.

 

 

 

ps. Never wondered why they DID make bunny hats bind on pick up and left the rest as it was?

[Made0f12une]

Finally I give up and i'm bored of reading.

 

 

 

First off i'd like to say your finest idea would be the one with the shops and high prices ect. ect. Well too bad thats not going to happen. I think they're trying to get rid of the rares and hopefully have the market flip flop back to a normal one. Havent you noticed that all new "Holiday Drops" arent drops anymore? The Halloween Scythe drop was the last one they did. 1. Too many people complained about not getting one, They've also made all new items whether it bee from a quest, skill, holiday drop whatever untradable. I was greatly disapointed when I 1. couldnt repaint my Rune Heraldic Helm and 2. Trade it away

 

 

 

"Beeing a level 3 is not easy. And for those starting now at level 3 making the first 1k still takes time."

 

Again, any level 3 member can make tons of cash running natures.

 

"The past is the past."

 

 

 

 

The only point i'd really like to touch light on is the one stated above. I think you need to step aside from members and look at the F2p POV. I'd say roughly maybe 55-75% of runescapes population consists of Free Playing Members. Yes, the f2pers. And from the last time that I ran out of p2p and didnt currently have the money to buy more I had to sit through hell. Yes, it was that bad. Training spots are overly crowded, no one knows how to buy or sell anything in the market. Quick example, I was wereing my Black Mystic robes (didnt want to take them off for f2p) and I wanted to buy full rune in the market. Well I'm standing there and I get a trade. Someone puts up like an addy skirt (g) and I dont put anything up so the decline the trade. I say that i'm not buying that and they call me a noob.

 

 

 

Now back to the topic. Training spots are overly crowded. Since i'm a hardcore woodcutter I wanted to cut some Yews to make a little profit off of. I walk up to edgevill and there's atleast 4+ cutters in everyworld. I walk over to varrok and sadly the same thing. I say forget this and I march right on over to draynor village and want to cut some willows for Fletching and again i'm greeted by masses of newer players cutting my wood.

 

 

 

Not everyone has to advanatage of being a Member. and yes members do have farrrr more money opertunties then the free players. They also get a ton more updates.

 

 

 

Adam, you have some really good points but I feel that System has an advanatge over you. His money making points are right on the spot and you cant just think of memebrs, you have to think of the runescape world as a whole. A level 3 on f2p has an EXTREMELY hard time making money.

[microtosh]

lets juz put it this way. its jagex's way of rewarding loyal players?

 

 

 

its not really an unfair advantage if you put it that way

[Systemless]

If Jagex rewards the loyal players that is ok. But I think here the reward is going a bit too far. The reward is usually bigger than anything that can be achieved by "hand work" by a new player. Other problem is that Jagex does not really reward the 100% loyal players. Those that have been really loyal and droped or given away the rares as Jagex asked poeple to do, those are now without reward.

 

 

 

It's a very strange thing with the rares. On the one side Jagex always claims that it is all player made. That they have nothing to do with the rares market. That they never intended the rares to become what they are. But on the other side: Who is protecting the rares market? Who has a "rares" section in their marketplace forums? Don't tell me that Jagex couldn't change it if they wanted. They protect it but don't want to be responsible for it :lol:.

 

 

 

@Made0f12une: Yes very good point. The overly crowded training spots in todays f2p worlds are a problem. It doesn't help if you had theoretically faster xp today compared with rsc, but all the areas are crowded.

 

 

 

And a more general thing. It's not that much about me beeing jealous about having or not having gotten any rares. I bought a few some time ago and I am pretty happy with what I have. The problem is more that my motivation to work for cash is lost due to the rares situation. Why should I work today 10 times as much for the same as one year ago?

 

 

 

.: Systemless :.

[NightDemon]

Don't tell me that Jagex couldn't change it if they wanted. They protect it but don't want to be responsible for it :lol:.

 

 

 

 

 

.: Systemless :.

 

 

 

Its probably not responsibilty, but the rares seem to motivate people. So actually jagex is playing an unfair game in my opinion