So My Views Aren't Right?

[Barihawk]

I take what you say about evaltion literally because I take what the Bible says literally.

So you seriously believe, without any doubt what so ever, that the earth is only 6,000 years old despite there being physically proof that there are human races that are 20, 30 and even 40 thousand years old?

 

 

 

The story of Genesis says that God created the Earth in 6 days. Who told the events of Genesis to it's author, Moses? God. And what, do tell, is a day to God?

 

 

 

It's quite possible that God formed the Earth over millions of years, allowing dinosaurs to flourish and die in a great period of time.

 

 

 

And what of this 6000 years? In the entire Bible, all units of measurement are shown in thier original Hebrew form. Note, the geneologies occur thousands of years before the Julian Calendar was invented. Who is to say that a year in the Bible is only 365 days?

 

 

 

The confusion arises from the fact that the New Testament uses a more modern calendar than the old testament. A New Testament (or modern) year might equal 10 or more Old Testament years. The Bible already states that people lived to incredible ages.

[Guest XplsvBam]

Then why are animals so similar? But yet nothing even comes to close to alternative living-sapiens? Where is the missing link?

 

 

 

Many animals are similar? Excuse me? That's ridiculous. We're both human both we obviously differ a lot.

 

And the difference between a fish and a lion is pretty obvious, I'd say.

 

 

 

I don't quite understand what you mean with nothing comes close to us human beings, but I guess you mean no other creatures are so intelligent?

 

Well, we evolved in a record speed. It took us about 50,000 years to evolve from cavemen into what we are now. It takes another creature 50,000 years to evolve one single harmless little thing.

 

If there would only be a few thousand humans that would not meddle with nature too much, eventually, after millions of years, another intelligent race would erupt, of that I'm sure.

 

 

 

 

 

edit: if you think carbon dating is influenced from outer space, you're obviously one of the ignorant people that do not care about whatever scientific explanation we give, you prefer staying in your religious shell. I'm not going to bother too much then.

You missed the point, where are the cavemen? If you implying 'cavemen' had the intelligence of a animal why didn't animals wear fur and create fire? Utensils anyone? How are cavemen anyone different then we are now? I don't see any evalution. We are cavemen...

 

 

 

I don't think carbon dating is influenced from outer space, but it is obviously more plausible then evalution. Who is to say space didn't effect our carbon?

[wakka102]

*Shakes head*.

 

 

 

I honestly thought Pianofreak was smarter than he is making himself out to be. First he says Jesus created the Universe in 7 days, then he says that all creatures looking similar in structure disproves evolution. *Sigh*. I almost do not even know how to comment. First off, no, Jesus is not God, so saying that they're somehow the same being is not going to work here. Christian's have completely forgotten one of the 10 commandments, being not to worship false idols, i.e. anyone but God/Yahweh/Jehova/whatever-you-call-said-deity. They make up some random crap about the Father, Son and Holy Spirit being one..thing..so they can say Jesus is their lord. Whatever...Your lord is GOD. Jesus was merely a pawn God needed to use to cleanse you of your horrible sins which you haven't stopped commiting...That is, assuming any of this is true at all, which it probably isn't. And by probably, I mean "most likely".

 

 

 

People read too far into religion. They mistake a book written to keep people in line and teach them life lessons for some kind of...literal history book. I'm sorry, but all the promises of Heaven in the universe will not make that so. It's a BOOK written by a King's scribes 2,000-ish years ago. Honestly now. I'm supposed to follow, word for word, in a literal sense, something that a 2,000 year old book says, as opposed to what billions of years of science is telling us? Science, which, mind you, can be proven, or has been already? No thanks, guys! I'm sure the Bible is a great read and all, and when you're done, maybe you'll even have learned something, but it's nothing more than that. You're not going to burn in some eternal flame for not reading a book and bowing down. If we were going to burn, almost everyone on the freakin' planet would be burning, and mind you, most of these are the decent, kind-hearted, great all-around people, as opposed to Christians, who steal your money selling you $100 Bible's and $500 clocks (no joke, watch tv sometime, I'm not kidding) calling it "donating", not to mention the millions they steal via "Feed the Children Fund"...Or Muslims (not all) who blow people up randomly...These people will be rewarded for being GOOD? 'Kay. If you say so. If you were not so blinded by your up-bringing, you'd be able to see that you're brain-washed...Will you ever realize? No, you will not, because you fear your loving God will burn you eternally if you stray. Well, that's nice of him, huh.

 

 

 

I've come to accept, even if there is a God, that he doesn't look after me, and he never will. I have looked to the sky and given "God" the finger before just to spite him. Why? Because he's never done a damn thing for anyone. NOONE. The only people who claim to have been helped by him are Christians getting rich by saying they've been helped by him. That's it. Noone else. Not a starving baby, not a homeless man, not a prisoner, not a civilian in a war-torn country, and surely not a teenager suffering from more medical problems than you could imagine. Refering to myself, of course, but countless others could go into that catagory.

 

 

 

Believe what you will, but keep it to yourself. You are the reason people kill eachother. You are the reason EVERYONE is angry. You are the reason for every war EVER fought. You are the reason people fight in general. The least you could do is kill eachother and save us rational people the time and effort. Prove me wrong. Prove you're not the problem, that you are infact, somehow, the solution.

 

 

 

I don't want to down people's religions, but christ, how dense can one person be? The world is 6,000 years old? The grand canyon was created via the "Great Flood"? Ugh. I cannot even fathom the idiocy it takes to believe this. If the world was 6,000 years old, period, end of story, then the Egyptians would have been some of like...the first people. For some reason, though, they felt the need to worship God's noone even knows the names of anymore? Oh, but wait, the Pyramids are probably 12 years old and carbon dating is a Neo-Nazi scam or something.

 

 

 

I want to bash my head into a wall now. Just thinking of the idiots out there teaching their CHILDREN this stuff angers me. They should all be jailed for abuse.

 

 

 

Edit: I can't wait until we find life on some other planet in some other solar system. It may not even be in my lifetime, but it will completely toss religion for a loop. I don't recall the Bible ever saying anything about other life forms anywhere but Earth, so it'll be quite the "HOLY CRAP!" day at the Vatican. I can see it now, though...News headlines everywhere..."Catholics discover a NEW new testiment buried beneathe 6,000 year old rubble of Adam and Eve's original hut! They are claiming it speaks of God creating life on an infinate number of planets! Hooray! Religion is SAVED!" and in small-print "Carbon-dating was used to discover the age of the ancient text, however, the Vatican is still calling Carbon dating a "Nazi insturment of death."

 

 

 

Oh man. I can't wait to see the gullible goldfish that buy into that. It's like the Mormon religion all over again.

I agree with every word =D>

[issy2]

The majority of religious people on this thread seem to agree they're definitely right. In fact the majority of athiests on this thread claim they're definitely right too. Yes, I know I'm a hypocrite, but how can you say those things, with absolutely no proof he does not exist, with absolutely no proof he doesn't? If God implants hope and love into your heart with every living moment, then I hope everyone goes to church. If you believe in God because you've been brought up like that, too immature to question what you're told, then you need to stop and think about it.

[Oy_the_Great]

Then why are animals so similar? But yet nothing even comes to close to alternative living-sapiens? Where is the missing link?

 

 

 

Many animals are similar? Excuse me? That's ridiculous. We're both human both we obviously differ a lot.

 

And the difference between a fish and a lion is pretty obvious, I'd say.

 

 

 

I don't quite understand what you mean with nothing comes close to us human beings, but I guess you mean no other creatures are so intelligent?

 

Well, we evolved in a record speed. It took us about 50,000 years to evolve from cavemen into what we are now. It takes another creature 50,000 years to evolve one single harmless little thing.

 

If there would only be a few thousand humans that would not meddle with nature too much, eventually, after millions of years, another intelligent race would erupt, of that I'm sure.

 

 

 

 

 

edit: if you think carbon dating is influenced from outer space, you're obviously one of the ignorant people that do not care about whatever scientific explanation we give, you prefer staying in your religious shell. I'm not going to bother too much then.

You missed the point, where are the cavemen? If you implying 'cavemen' had the intelligence of a animal why didn't animals wear fur and create fire? Utensils anyone? How are cavemen anyone different then we are now? I don't see any evalution. We are cavemen...

 

 

 

I don't think carbon dating is influenced from outer space, but it is obviously more plausible then evalution. Who is to say space didn't effect our carbon?

 

 

 

1/ I regret to say that I find you don't use common sense in any of your posts, since you start with the theory that what some folks wrote 3-2 thousand years ago is the absolute truth. If you would have read everything I said on the previous page, you would notice I respect all sides, I respect the Bible, since it bares a lot of truth, but only about the human nature. Not about nature itself, at all.

 

2/ I never implied cavemen being stupid. You're right that we still are more or less equally smart as cavemen were. But don't you think our society can be seen as the most dramatic part of evolution? I think that with every new invention, a leap in evolution is made.

[Tigra00]

Then why are animals so similar? But yet nothing even comes to close to alternative living-sapiens? Where is the missing link?

 

 

 

Many animals are similar? Excuse me? That's ridiculous. We're both human both we obviously differ a lot.

 

And the difference between a fish and a lion is pretty obvious, I'd say.

 

 

 

I don't quite understand what you mean with nothing comes close to us human beings, but I guess you mean no other creatures are so intelligent?

 

Well, we evolved in a record speed. It took us about 50,000 years to evolve from cavemen into what we are now. It takes another creature 50,000 years to evolve one single harmless little thing.

 

If there would only be a few thousand humans that would not meddle with nature too much, eventually, after millions of years, another intelligent race would erupt, of that I'm sure.

 

 

 

 

 

edit: if you think carbon dating is influenced from outer space, you're obviously one of the ignorant people that do not care about whatever scientific explanation we give, you prefer staying in your religious shell. I'm not going to bother too much then.

You missed the point, where are the cavemen? If you implying 'cavemen' had the intelligence of a animal why didn't animals wear fur and create fire? Utensils anyone? How are cavemen anyone different then we are now? I don't see any evalution. We are cavemen...

 

 

 

I don't think carbon dating is influenced from outer space, but it is obviously more plausible then evalution. Who is to say space didn't effect our carbon?

 

 

 

Space didn't effect our carbon. There, I said it.

 

 

 

You can't just shove carbon from outer space into the same carbon in a fossil. You just can't. It doesn't work that way. This is molecular level stuff happening, it isn't a scientist finding moon-dust on top of a fossil and testing it, 'kay?

 

 

 

Even so...If you were to believe that the Earth was only 6,000 years old, you would have to believe that the Universe itself was just as old, thus completely making your "space carbon" theory bunk. OR, you can still believe the space carbon thing, but you would mean you do not believe in God creating the actual Universe. Choice is yours! I think we know what you'll pick...I can already see you getting up from your computer chair and running to hide under the bed with your Bible to psycho-analyze everything it says.

 

 

 

The Bible was written by man to keep people in line and to teach them life lessons. Do you honestly think a God would be a sexist moron? The Bible is filled with "men > women" crap, obviously written by a man of the time who wanted their women to sit down and shut up. But of course, decency doesn't allow you to believe that sort of stuff anymore, so followers pick and choose what they believe out of the Bible. If you truely were a follower of the Bible, you'd believe everything it says, meaning that if you know some adulterous woman, you need to go throw some heavy rocks at her RIGHT NOW until she dies. Because that's what "God" wants.

 

 

 

Give me a break.

 

 

 

Evolution is infinately more plausable, and anyone without a religious fork being fed to their mouth can see that. Hell, there is even starting to be definative PROOF of the subject. Darwin studied bird's on the Galapagos Island's for years and he noted that their beaks were adapting to the type of nut they had to eat. Before, they had to eat a realatively easy to get into type of nut, but now, for whatever reason (no clue there) they are forced to eat a harder nut, thus their beaks are now harder and more pointed. This is over however many years they've been researching the bird, which isn't very many...I think 100 or less, but I'm not sure, look it up if you want.

 

 

 

There definately could be a God, but everything we know as religion today is a complete and utter lie. The evil are rewarded just by saying they're "good" and the good are punished because they didn't know of God? Whatever. Almost every single religious person is breaking the very fundamentals of their religions and they still expect that God will just forgive and forget, yet all of us who didn't follow God (some couldn't, period, mind you...) are going to burn eternally. A Catholic can go rape a little boy and he's forgiven, a Christian can sleep with prostitutes and be forgiven, and Christian can steal money from people to make their pockets bigger and be forgiven, but someone who never knew of God can't be forgiven? Again, a huuuuge "Whatever." here.

 

 

 

Like I said before, I cannot wait until we discover life elsewhere. Religion will be obliterated, or they will make up more lies to cover their [wagon] like they do today. At least I can look forward to laughing when Christians everywhere start setting up another Crusade to go convert these alien life forms, and if they refuse, they will slaughter them. :lol: Oh man, hypocrisy rules. I love God, he forgives all the horrible stuff, but will make you charcoal for the smallest things! AWESOME LEADER!

[thedepressedsquirrel]

 

OMG EYES AND FLAGELLUM ARE SO COMPLEX THEY MUST HAVE BEEN CREATED ALL AT ONCE!1!111

 

 

 

The useless flagellum/eye parts didn't benefit the organism, but they didn't harm it either, so they were allowed to survive. If you are right, then humans would die out because they have a useless thing called the appendix.

[pianofrieak2]

*Shakes head*.

 

 

 

I honestly thought Pianofreak was smarter than he is making himself out to be.

 

 

 

Sorry Tigra. I guess you didn't understand where I was coming from. But anyway, it's alright. You can think whatever you want about me. But your comment made me laugh anyway, so whatever. :P

 

 

 

First he says Jesus created the Universe in 7 days, then he says that all creatures looking similar in structure disproves evolution. *Sigh*. I almost do not even know how to comment.

 

 

 

First off, if you're going to comment on me, at least make it CORRECT.

 

1. God created the universe in 6 days. He rested the 7th day.

 

2. I never said that creatures looking similar in structure disproves evolution. I said that if natural selection is true, then we should have some totally wacked out animals that died because their mutations were wrong (i.e. eyes on the bottom of the foot instead of where it sees best). The fossil record cannot be used for support of evolution.

 

 

 

Now you can try to argue my point, now that I've clarified it for you.

 

 

 

First off, no, Jesus is not God, so saying that they're somehow the same being is not going to work here. Christian's have completely forgotten one of the 10 commandments, being not to worship false idols, i.e. anyone but God/Yahweh/Jehova/whatever-you-call-said-deity. They make up some random crap about the Father, Son and Holy Spirit being one..thing..so they can say Jesus is their lord. Whatever...Your lord is GOD. Jesus was merely a pawn God needed to use to cleanse you of your horrible sins which you haven't stopped commiting...That is, assuming any of this is true at all, which it probably isn't. And by probably, I mean "most likely".

 

 

 

1. First off, we're coming at these things from completely opposite viewpoints. You assume certain things about God that are completely unscriptural which is completely different from me. I take Scripture to be true.

 

2. Secondly, you don't understand much about the Christian religion. Don't you find it hard to comment about something you don't understand very well? Now if you came at it from the angle of "here's what I understand...can someone fill in the gaps?" that'd be a much better position. Instead, you come at it ignorantly and then refute it. Let me fill you in here.

 

 

 

A. Scripture believes in the Trinitarian view of God. This says that God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Spirit (The Holy Spirit) all collectively make up the being "GOD." Without one, there cannot be God. They are in perfect unity together.

 

B. Jesus was not a pawn. Jesus obeyed His Father's will, so that humanity's sins can be covered and forgiven under their covenant. Jesus was fully God and fully man. If He was not man, He could not die. If He was not God, He could not redeem. It sounds strange, but it makes no sense otherwise. You just have to accept it at face-value.

 

C. Jesus covered our sins for all eternity. God is, by nature, outside of time. I don't understand where you said that it's impossible for God to save us from our sins in the future. He's OUTSIDE of time.

 

 

 

People read too far into religion. They mistake a book written to keep people in line and teach them life lessons for some kind of...literal history book. I'm sorry, but all the promises of Heaven in the universe will not make that so. It's a BOOK written by a King's scribes 2,000-ish years ago. Honestly now. I'm supposed to follow, word for word, in a literal sense, something that a 2,000 year old book says, as opposed to what billions of years of science is telling us? Science, which, mind you, can be proven, or has been already?

 

 

 

I read too far into religion? Well, I follow it. If you think that's "too devout" then that's fine, but don't go imposing your views on me. :roll:

 

 

 

Besides, the Bible was not written by kings' scribes. I honestly don't know where you get all this false information...You're also wrong in saying it was written 2000 years ago. Jesus died 2000 years ago, but the Bible was written well before that. It prophesied his death. I'm not expert on the age of the Bible, but if I were to guess, I'd say it's around 8000 years old.

 

 

 

Also, you're assuming that science contradicts the Bible. Evolution has already been debated as to its scientific nature. Now if you're going to trust whatever your 9th grade science teacher says as absolute fact, then that's fine but at least do some outside research and think for yourself. Don't start with the premise that God doesn't exist. Research both sides so that you at least know what you're talking about.

 

 

 

No thanks, guys! I'm sure the Bible is a great read and all, and when you're done, maybe you'll even have learned something, but it's nothing more than that. You're not going to burn in some eternal flame for not reading a book and bowing down. If we were going to burn, almost everyone on the freakin' planet would be burning, and mind you, most of these are the decent, kind-hearted, great all-around people, as opposed to Christians, who steal your money selling you $100 Bible's and $500 clocks (no joke, watch tv sometime, I'm not kidding) calling it "donating", not to mention the millions they steal via "Feed the Children Fund"

 

 

 

I was amused by your view of hell. Although I will grant you that it is somewhat correct. Jesus said that the way to destruction is wide and the path to eternal life is small and few enter. That means that more people are going to hell than are going to heaven (just to clear things up).

 

 

 

Also, why are you so insistent that what you define as "good" CAN'T go to hell? Even good people have committed a sin, and if they're sinful, they can't be in the presence of a pure God. I've said this so many times before, but let me say it again: God cannot be in the presence of sin. That's why Jesus died. *sigh*

 

 

 

Now I'm not defending Christians. I'm defending Christianity and God's Word. You are correct in identifying many hypocritical Christian groups like that, but I could also tell you about some terrible atheists. You can't stereotype one religion based on a few people or organizations.

 

 

 

...Or Muslims (not all) who blow people up randomly...These people will be rewarded for being GOOD? 'Kay. If you say so. If you were not so blinded by your up-bringing, you'd be able to see that you're brain-washed...Will you ever realize? No, you will not, because you fear your loving God will burn you eternally if you stray. Well, that's nice of him, huh.

 

 

 

My definition of good is dependent upon God's nature and His word. Not upon what the world defines as good.

 

 

 

Perhaps it is YOU who are brainwashed by your own upbringing. You have very closed thinking (evolution since I highly doubt you've read any books stating the opposite viewpoint) and incorrect knowledge (regarding Christianity).

 

 

 

I've come to accept, even if there is a God, that he doesn't look after me, and he never will. I have looked to the sky and given "God" the finger before just to spite him. Why? Because he's never done a damn thing for anyone. NOONE. The only people who claim to have been helped by him are Christians getting rich by saying they've been helped by him. That's it. Noone else. Not a starving baby, not a homeless man, not a prisoner, not a civilian in a war-torn country, and surely not a teenager suffering from more medical problems than you could imagine. Refering to myself, of course, but countless others could go into that catagory.

 

 

 

I'm terribly sorry you feel that way about God. And when you say that "God" has never done anything for anyone, that's a very bold statement. What do you know about God or His works on the Earth. Just because you haven't seen a miracle doesn't mean they don't exist. Just because you haven't had a changed life because of Christ doesn't mean there are people who haven't (me).

 

 

 

It seems to me that you're making very bold statements that one could only make IF he was omniscient.

 

 

 

Believe what you will, but keep it to yourself. You are the reason people kill eachother. You are the reason EVERYONE is angry. You are the reason for every war EVER fought. You are the reason people fight in general. The least you could do is kill eachother and save us rational people the time and effort. Prove me wrong. Prove you're not the problem, that you are infact, somehow, the solution.

 

 

 

Christianity says that people have inherent value and the rights thereof. You do realize that Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot were staunch atheists. In fact, Hitler quoted Darwin as an excuse for his wide-spread eugenic programs that were responsible for killing 6 million people.

 

 

 

God is the reason for EVERY war EVER fought? Try getting your facts straight. Now I'm not saying that all wars are because of money or power (i.e. Middle East), but don't be ridiculous in blaming religion for all of humanity's problems.

 

 

 

If people actually followed Christianity, they wouldn't murder, rape, steal, lie, cheat, or try to get more power. Christianity recognizes the inherent evil within each of us which is proven by dictators. Name one dictator who did more good than a democracy. Christianity says to treat your neighbor as yourself. To forgive one another as you have been forgiven. To give grace and mercy but also to give justice.

 

 

 

I don't want to down people's religions, but christ, how dense can one person be? The world is 6,000 years old? The grand canyon was created via the "Great Flood"? Ugh. I cannot even fathom the idiocy it takes to believe this. If the world was 6,000 years old, period, end of story, then the Egyptians would have been some of like...the first people. For some reason, though, they felt the need to worship God's noone even knows the names of anymore? Oh, but wait, the Pyramids are probably 12 years old and carbon dating is a Neo-Nazi scam or something.

 

 

 

Once again, you don't know much about Christianity. The world is between 10-12,000 years old according to most Christian scholars.

 

 

 

I want to bash my head into a wall now. Just thinking of the idiots out there teaching their CHILDREN this stuff angers me. They should all be jailed for abuse.

 

 

 

I want to bash my head in a wall when liberals say we should have sex ed in kindergarten and teach the kids that their lives matter nothing in the universe.

[wakka102]

I want to bash my head in a wall when liberals say we should have sex ed in kindergarten and teach the kids that their lives matter nothing in the universe.

I agree with the first part, theres no benefit in sex ed in kindergarten.. but how do people's lives matter in the universe? it matters in the world that we live in but we really have no control over the universe.

[insane]

*Shakes head*.

 

 

 

I honestly thought Pianofreak was smarter than he is making himself out to be. First he says Jesus created the Universe in 7 days, then he says that all creatures looking similar in structure disproves evolution. *Sigh*. I almost do not even know how to comment. First off, no, Jesus is not God, so saying that they're somehow the same being is not going to work here. Christian's have completely forgotten one of the 10 commandments, being not to worship false idols, i.e. anyone but God/Yahweh/Jehova/whatever-you-call-said-deity. They make up some random crap about the Father, Son and Holy Spirit being one..thing..so they can say Jesus is their lord. Whatever...Your lord is GOD. Jesus was merely a pawn God needed to use to cleanse you of your horrible sins which you haven't stopped commiting...That is, assuming any of this is true at all, which it probably isn't. And by probably, I mean "most likely".

 

 

 

 

I find it ironic that someone who despises Christians and Christianity has the gall to instruct us on "proper" Christian beliefs. If you read the Bible, like actually read it, you would see that there are verses making reference to Christ being God - thus worshipping Him is not against the commandment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People read too far into religion. They mistake a book written to keep people in line and teach them life lessons for some kind of...literal history book.

 

 

 

As opposed to you, who have not read into religion at all. But I agree that the Bible should not be read a historical text or a science text <-- that was/is not its purpose.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure the Bible is a great read and all, and when you're done, maybe you'll even have learned something, but it's nothing more than that.

 

 

 

 

Some people devote their lives to learning. If I learn the greatest truths in existence, I'll take the "nothing more than that". Science may improve my outer circumstances, but it cannot bring me true joy, or happiness in life. However, Christ has done those things.

 

 

 

You're not going to burn in some eternal flame for not reading a book and bowing down.

 

 

 

Of course you won't, the Bible doesn't say that. In fact, the Bible says (read Romans 3 - 4... well, you probably won't, but at least I can't say I didn't try) that Abraham was declared righteous before God because he simply believed and trusted God. Churches didn't exist, tithing didn't exist, the Bible didn't exist, heck, the 10 commandments didn't exist. Yet Abraham was declared righteous before God. That is the heart of Christianity - to be saved, you need to have faith in God - realize that we suck at life and that we need God to enjoy life. It's not about the Bible or the Law - although faith in God will create a following in them - but the heart of Christianity is faith in God before all else. Your posts show your complete misunderstanding of Christianity and its not entirely your fault, since most Christians are in the same belief that you need to say some non-Biblical believers prayer to be saved.

 

 

 

 

 

most of these are the decent, kind-hearted, great all-around people, as opposed to Christians, who steal your money selling you $100 Bible's and $500 clocks (no joke, watch tv sometime, I'm not kidding) calling it "donating", not to mention the millions they steal via "Feed the Children Fund"...Or Muslims (not all) who blow people up randomly...These people will be rewarded for being GOOD? 'Kay. If you say so.

 

 

 

Thanks for the generalization. Y'know, if any other people-group was mentioned as being thieves you'd have been pegged for racism already. Yet again, the Christians take the hit. Take a chill pill, and realize that yes, there are some idiotic Christians that steal, just like there are some idiotic atheists that steal. A Christian stealing doesn't invalidate Christianity no more than a crashing airplane invalidates aerodynamics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you were not so blinded by your up-bringing, you'd be able to see that you're brain-washed...Will you ever realize? No, you will not, because you fear your loving God will burn you eternally if you stray. Well, that's nice of him, huh.

 

 

 

You're sounding pretty undereducated as to what you're talking about. Maybe you should actually learn about Chrsitianity before aimlessly insulting something you know nothing about.

 

 

 

I've come to accept, even if there is a God, that he doesn't look after me, and he never will. I have looked to the sky and given "God" the finger before just to spite him.

 

 

 

Well doesn't this just raise the validity of your entire post :?.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why? Because he's never done a damn thing for anyone. NOONE. The only people who claim to have been helped by him are Christians getting rich by saying they've been helped by him. That's it. Noone else. Not a starving baby, not a homeless man, not a prisoner, not a civilian in a war-torn country, and surely not a teenager suffering from more medical problems than you could imagine. Refering to myself, of course, but countless others could go into that catagory.

 

 

 

Of course the ex-drug addict that was baptized in church today is totally rich and living the luxurious life. Obviously not; in fact, he's living in our church's homeless shelter still. But he has happiness and joy in his life. Can you say the same? You've got more generalizations that the false idea of Christians in your mind do, I suggest you quit making them.

 

 

 

Believe what you will, but keep it to yourself.

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are the reason people kill eachother. You are the reason EVERYONE is angry. You are the reason for every war EVER fought. You are the reason people fight in general.

 

 

 

More mindless generalizations to invalidate your intelligence.

 

 

 

 

 

The least you could do is kill eachother and save us rational people the time and effort.

 

 

 

You want to keep posting here? Give the hate a rest.

 

 

 

Prove me wrong. Prove you're not the problem, that you are infact, somehow, the solution.

 

 

 

Christianity is the solution, not Christians. Read the New Testament. Then you will realize that it is a solution. As for the church I attend, personally? I'll just throw out our homeless shelter as a single example. Paid for by the members of our church, we house the homeless, feed them, get them jobs, get them off their addictions with volunteer staff that are members at our church and the money that comes from the members as well.

 

 

 

I don't want to down people's religions

 

Of course, you just want us to kill each other.

 

 

 

The world is 6,000 years old?...

 

 

 

You yourself said that the Bible should not be read as a literal historical text - so why are you doing so and then insulting that mindset? Kind of hypocritical...

[thedepressedsquirrel]

The problem isn't whether or not god exists, since it is impossible to prove either way. The problem is why people are convinced that god is specifically christian/muslim/hindu/buddhist/rastafarian/voodo/etc.

 

 

 

I get to post my cartoon again:

 

[Tigra00]

Believing that the Earth is 10,000-12,000 years old alone in a religious sense might as well just debunk it entirely. It is a proven fact that the world is much, much older than 12,000 years. Like I said, if you don't trust carbon-dating, a proven science, then you are a fool. I could probably find something older than 12,000 years old digging in my own backyard. I once found a 200-some-odd year old gun a mere 10 or so inches below the grass in my backyard...Granted, 200 years isn't 12,000 years, but you get the point. Dig far enough and find something, it'll be over 12,000 years old. There are so many things wrong with even thinking that...I wouldn't know where to begin. Even the oil you put in your car everyday is older than that. Sheesh. I've even personally TOUCHED something older than that! South Dakota Mammoth Caves ftw. Infact, I do own a bottle of sediment from the same time period...Could very well itself be over 12,000 years old.

 

 

 

I'm curious, would you have us believe that somehow Carbon-Dating is false, and that mammoths and what not were walking around, like...3,000 years ago? 1,000? What? It doesn't make sense. Period. I think if you rolled everything back in terms of how old it was, those mammoth bones would probably be like, 10 years old in those terms. :lol: I mean, they've found things MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of years old...Mammoth bones are just a fraction of that, so if you cut everything into a fraction to fit your 12,000 year time-line...Then yea, I guess I better go feed my pet mammoth.

 

 

 

Yes, I generalize Christians because I see most of them as the same. It's usually Evangelics, but whatever. I don't see myself as "uninformed" on religion. I see myself as not giving a damn about what it's saying, because it's impossible to take literally. I believe the Bible was written as an inspiring bunch of stories (even some of your priests and what not say that) to help you live life and treat others with respect. Afterall, if it wasn't for the Bible, there would be no morals. I'm sure cavemen had no problem killing eachother over food, providing they weren't some sort of family/friend to them.

 

 

 

Sex ed in kindergarden would be dumb, because they don't understand, but they do need to know about it early on in life. I learned in 4th grade, I think. Kids are having sex and getting pregnant at much earlier ages, thus the want for teaching it earlier. Sexual curiousity begins very early in life, and if they don't know the consequences, they'll just do it. 4th grade is a pretty good time to start. It's the time I can remember actually thinking school was becoming work. 3rd grade and down was just day-care.

 

 

 

And we don't have a point in the Universe. No matter how we were put here, we're alone on the planet with nothing to do but stay alive and die. If you believe in God, you may go to Heaven or whatever, and if you don't, then you'll just die. Even going to Heaven doesn't make you have a purpose. Noone knows the meaning of life because there is no meaning. We're either an experiment or a freak accident in nature.

[BlueLancer]

 

And what of this 6000 years? In the entire Bible, all units of measurement are shown in thier original Hebrew form. Note, the geneologies occur thousands of years before the Julian Calendar was invented. Who is to say that a year in the Bible is only 365 days?

 

 

 

 

Oh yes, and Adam lived then for what, 7 billion years? If we are to assume that no matter how the hebrew word "yom" for day is to be intepreted, there was some man who lived 930 years?

 

 

 

Do you, as an educated person, actually believe it could be possible for a human being with nearly no technology, intelligence or advance to live up to billions of years because a hypothetical "God" granted him the ability to do so?

[pianofrieak2]

I doubt you'll read this article, but since you remarked so much about carbon dating, I figured you should probably have the opportunity to at least hear the other side. In fact, to make it easier on you, I just posted it here instead of giving you the link!

 

 

 

ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅThe Problem of CarbonÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[katha610]

ui, im about to get into that discussion, thanks to insane who locked the other one

[Tigra00]

That article is speculation, covered in a thin coat of religious bias. I read it...Did it come from some religious site of some sort? I would bet it did. If it did not, then I would like to know what site it came from so I can see how much they actually know about science, which seems to be not very much.

 

 

 

Carbon dating is accepted as scientific fact. That's the end of that right there. It isn't a theory, it isn't debated, it is used as fact. A scientific fact, in our world, is just that: a fact. In yours, it is "speculation" because you believe what a book tells you.

 

 

 

I'm off to write my own book so everyone can believe what I say. (Or, you know, I'm going out to eat...same thing. :lol:)

[Evilperson]

Since the Christians here are questioning the validity of evolution, I pose a conundrum to you.

 

 

 

If God created Adam and then Eve from his rib, where did the many different races come from? Did Adam have a black cousin named Geoff? What about the rest of the races? And the different languages? Did Adam and Eve make up about hundred languages just for kicks?? I mean i know they didnt have much to do in the Garden of Eden. . .

 

 

 

Also, how did the other religions come about if the only two people created by God were christians?

 

 

 

Please tell me

 

 

I could use a good laugh. Ok that was uncalled for and sorry to anyone who makes this type bigger.

[thedepressedsquirrel]

Since the Christians here are questioning the validity of evolution, I pose a conundrum to you.

 

 

 

If God created Adam and then Eve from his rib, where did the many different races come from? Did Adam have a black cousin named Geoff? What about the rest of the races? And the different languages? Did Adam and Eve make up about hundred languages just for kicks?? I mean i know they didnt have much to do in the Garden of Eden. . .

 

 

 

Also, how did the other religions come about if the only two people created by God were christians?

 

 

 

Please tell me

 

 

I could use a good laugh. Ok that was uncalled for and sorry to anyone who makes this type bigger.

 

 

 

The tower of babel and various other cool stories explain those.

 

 

 

I'd much rather talk about this:

 

[Guest GhostRanger]

Well, I dare you to name 5 species that are less evolved, such as you call it.

 

The last few hundred years, a lot of species have gone exstinct, due to human acitivity. That proves many animals aren't able to adapt quickly enough, making them lesser species, actually not worth living here. But that's of course harsh, and it smells of Hitler's ideas, so don't quote me on that ;)

 

The animals that now exist, all have some kind of superiority to other animals. Little maggots can easily survive, but the continuity of some animals like buffalos, lions, tigers etc is in much graver danger. When we would not interfere, these animals would have all been hunted down for their skin or for the danger they pose.

 

So, what I try to say is that no lesser species hang around, or never for a long time. It takes a few hundred, perhaps thousand years to wipe out a lesser specy, but they will either die or adapt eventually.

 

 

 

Lesser species? By lesser species, what I mean is that if every animal evolved from the same thing, and only those more equipped to survive stayed around, why do we have so many different types of animals? Clearly humans are the most equipped to survive, so why hasn't everything else gone extinct? If the Earth has been around as long as you believe it has, if life has existed and humans have existed as long as you believe it has, why do so many different type of animals exist? If the random mutations have to help the survival of the animal to stay, why did everything else survive except for the most advanced species?

 

 

 

Perhaps Darwin's studies did not, we do see that animals change over time, and this can't be observed like a study, because it takes far too long. Take cats for example: the small cat we all know as a pet, has been exported by European travellers to all over the world, where they have never ever been before. These cats are able to survive everywhere, whether it's in a hot desert or in the north poles.

 

And they are a fine example of adaptation; the Lynx-type found on the Falklands for example has evolved from regular cats in a relative short time span.

 

 

 

But they are still cats. I don't claim that adaptation does not happen. What I put fourth is that we don't have evidence of species evolving from one to another. Of course we have evidence that species will adapt, but cats stay cats and pea stalks stay pea stalks.

 

 

 

Again, name me an animal with 3 eyes. An eye doesn't just occur. And animals with more than 3 eyes? There are none, or at least none that are succesful. The very complex evolution of the eye is one that took several hundreds of millions of years. Almost every creature has 2 eyes, simply because 'creatin' another, no matter how useful it sometimes may be, is too complex. It was possible to develop it over so many years because no real threats existed in the world more than half a bilion years ago, before the dinosaurs. Single cellular creatures evolved into more cellurar creatures that may have had a very, very primitive version of the eye. This evolves throughout the millions of years, and it's possible to do so, because no big share of predators were around back then. Eventually, this miniscule creatures evolved into fish and insects. The facet-like eye of an insect is a great link between a single cell and the eye we have now. It consists of simple cells that detect movement, but not colour. This is what the eye serves it purpose for: so that insects can detect enemies attacking them. They can track food in other ways. Eventually, the simple fish with two (needed to estimate distance) eyes evolved into amphibia, so they needed to adapt their eyes as well. A long trail of evolution led to mamals and birds, that all have more or less the same kind of eyes. (and here the circle endeth :))

 

 

 

I see the connection between simple eyes and advanced eyes, and in my perspective, that connection is absolutely telling of this world being created through design. Someone already mentioned that some animals have more than 2 eyes, but that's irrelevant to the point.

 

 

 

All you did was explain the process of eyes changing from simple to advance, there isn't anything out there, however, that demonstrates what would cause an eye to first appear, and then why the simplest eye (light-sensitive cells) would be a beneifical mutation that would last.

 

 

 

Well, I just explained it, didn't I? It's a process of trail-and-error. You're 100% right when you say those light-sensitive cells are likely to evolve somewhere on a useless place. But after thousands of different places, those cells come into place, and stay, because the species has now been enhanced and will likely survive. Also, it's not completely trail-and-error, because a light-sesitive cell doesn't just pop up. It pops up because some cells in the body need to adapt to the light, like we need to adapt to our community or we get banned, for example. If those cells adapt, and it's a failure, the creature dies. But if they succeed and the animal can see the different shades of light, this animals will surely reproduce and be succesful.

 

 

 

Why would the light-sensitive cells continue to appear in random places? That sounds like a good theory, but why would they even be of use? Why would they just keep reappearing until they appeared in a good spot? The theory that only good mutations last is completely destroyed by this, because the light sensitive cells would have stopped appearing after they appeared in a thousand useless places. Not to mention that the most basic form of a mutation would most likely be completely useless.

 

 

 

 

 

---

 

I don't quite understand how that professor came to that dramatic conclusion, but I assume it is possible. Perhaps all of those flagella are fragile to a certain matter in certain circumstances, and perhaps these circumstances and matter are rather trivia among more or less evolved apes?

 

 

 

 

 

Either way, I also hope you read what I said Ghost, it took me 40 minutes of my precious studying time in this exam period ;)

 

 

 

I don't understand your point. If you have 200 different proteins that are completely useless unless they are working together, and the theory that makes evolution work is that random mutations that are beneficial are the only ones that stay, why would all 200 proteins randomly mutate, and then stick around long enough for them to start magically working together? The theory of random mutations would force those proteins to be evolved out of the body before the other proteins randomly appeared to start working together because they aren't beneficial to the survival of the species.

 

 

 

As I said before, things like the cilium and our entire natural world absolutely reek of design.

[thedepressedsquirrel]

ghostranger:

 

 

 

I think you skipped over my post or something.

 

 

 

The useless flagellum/eye parts didn't benefit the organism, but they didn't harm it either, so they were allowed to survive. If we follow your logic, then humans would die out because they have a useless thing called the appendix.

 

 

 

---------------------

 

 

 

But they are still cats. I don't claim that adaptation does not happen. What I put fourth is that we don't have evidence of species evolving from one to another. Of course we have evidence that species will adapt, but cats stay cats and pea stalks stay pea stalks.

 

 

 

Wouldn't an organism that has gone through thousands of years of adaptaion look completely different than its original form? So different that it is given a new name?

[Barihawk]

 

And what of this 6000 years? In the entire Bible, all units of measurement are shown in thier original Hebrew form. Note, the geneologies occur thousands of years before the Julian Calendar was invented. Who is to say that a year in the Bible is only 365 days?

 

 

 

 

Oh yes, and Adam lived then for what, 7 billion years? If we are to assume that no matter how the hebrew word "yom" for day is to be intepreted, there was some man who lived 930 years?

 

 

 

Do you, as an educated person, actually believe it could be possible for a human being with nearly no technology, intelligence or advance to live up to billions of years because a hypothetical "God" granted him the ability to do so?

 

 

 

I am rather well educated, thank you. I don't pay $14,000 a year for nothing. The reason they lived so long back then was because there were no diseases, they ate pure food, and did not have habits such as smoking or other ways we kill our bodies.

 

 

 

If you just came out of Paradise, I am sure you would live to a ripe old age, too.

 

 

 

Oh, and God is not hypothetical to me.

[thedepressedsquirrel]

ghostranger:

 

 

 

I think you skipped over my post or something.

 

 

 

The useless flagellum/eye parts didn't benefit the organism, but they didn't harm it either, so they were allowed to survive. If we follow your logic, then humans would die out because they have a useless thing called the appendix.

 

 

 

-------------------

 

 

 

But they are still cats. I don't claim that adaptation does not happen. What I put fourth is that we don't have evidence of species evolving from one to another. Of course we have evidence that species will adapt, but cats stay cats and pea stalks stay pea stalks.

 

 

 

Wouldn't an organism that has gone through thousands of years of adaptaion look completely different than its original form? So different that it is given a new name?

 

 

 

Also, why is no one talking about my cartoon? :(

 

[logic-is-overrated]

^^What the hell are we suppossed to say about it?^^

[Guest GhostRanger]

ghostranger:

 

 

 

I think you skipped over my post or something.

 

 

 

The useless flagellum/eye parts didn't benefit the organism, but they didn't harm it either, so they were allowed to survive. If we follow your logic, then humans would die out because they have a useless thing called the appendix.

 

 

 

-------------------

 

 

 

I didn't skip over it, I didn't read it at all. I was responded to Oy's post directly, sorry.

 

 

 

That theory doesn't work either. If it did, then we would have the thousands upon millions of useless mutations still attached to us, wouldn't we? Sure, we have an appendix and we're not sure why we have it - but a lot of studies indicate that it could have helped with digestion when we weren't eating as well. That's an adaption. We don't have 199 random mutations just sitting in our body though, waiting for the 200th so it can start working.

 

 

 

But they are still cats. I don't claim that adaptation does not happen. What I put fourth is that we don't have evidence of species evolving from one to another. Of course we have evidence that species will adapt, but cats stay cats and pea stalks stay pea stalks.

 

 

 

Wouldn't an organism that has gone through thousands of years of adaptaion look completely different than its original form? So different that it is given a new name?

 

 

 

It's not that it just looks different. Cats can't breed with dogs. They are completely different animals. We see cats adapt and change within their own species, but we don't see cats turning into dogs. We only speculate that that happens based on the assumption that adaptions could make even bigger jumps between species if we give them millions of years.

 

 

 

And then of course we have to decide whether or not evolution happens over a prolonged time, or in evolutionary "jumps." Evolutionists can't even agree on their theory because it's not consitant to the data we have.

 

 

 

One day I might take evolutionists at their word, but at the moment, they are providing me with very poor evidence.

 

 

 

On a side note, I think it's funny that humans are the only animals on the planet that "design" things. According to my religion, we were made in the image of God, our creator, who "designed" our world. Obviously that's my own personal belief so don't try and argue with me about my side note.

[Adam007]

That theory doesn't work either. If it did, then we would have the thousands upon millions of useless mutations still attached to us, wouldn't we? Sure, we have an appendix and we're not sure why we have it - but a lot of studies indicate that it could have helped with digestion when we weren't eating as well. That's an adaption. We don't have 199 random mutations just sitting in our body though, waiting for the 200th so it can start working.

 

No, because usually a mutation that isn't helpful just fades away. At some point I believe we had a use for appendexis (that might have been a different organ, I'm thinking of the thing that helped with raw foods). But either way, the reason mutations don't stick are because they provide no distinct advantage so they get phased out. Normally a mutation just gives you cancer anyway. It's very rare that a good one happens. We do have soem mutations like people having six fingers per hand and being completely covered in hair that have no evolutionary advantage and stuck around though, just a little extra thing to add to my already off-topicness. :P