Did you say free con AND smithing xp?! Version 1.3 CLEARER!!

[Gamerr]

Shouldn't be this in the 'Archive of wisdom'?

 

 

 

I've read the rough lines and i really liked that idea.

[darkalien182]

i tryed.....

 

 

but it takes tooooooo long for me.

[Potter_Pkr]

I have roughly heard of the idea, but its great to see how much effort you have put into getting the xp per plank etc. I might try and get 68 smithing to have a go at this. Hmm I better start on mining coal and iron once I reach 70 Agility.

[Guitarted7]

it kinda breaks even because of the time factor...you can build 1 oak larder per 6 armor stands. Also consider the addition of having to remove the armor as well. I actally did this before to level my construction. Personally, i found making legend's cape stands more time effective than armor stands. If you can buy gold cwars or make rune armor, then itll be worth it.

[tefda]

I think the idea is great! I wish I had used it before but I'm *out of luck* on this one (no more membership). I suppose during my F2P I'll try to get enough material for 68 Smithing! I can't wait for the free smithing xp to roll in! I could really, REALLY use an easier way to train Smithing.

 

 

 

Edit: Oh yeah, I would favor this idea because of it's money-saving efforts. Training a skill to 99 is going to be slow, no matter what. I'd rather spend a few more minutes doing something and save myself a couple mil instead of wasting my vast fortunes of 2 Million gold!

 

 

 

If that acronym meant what I thought it did you should know better, lol.

 

 

 

-RAHK-

[Golvellius]

Nice find rahk.

 

I'm ashamed to have never thought of this.

 

Yea it will be slower, but getting that tough smithing xp too for free is nice.

 

I'll give it a shot the next time I level con.

[RAHK]

i tryed.....

 

*Pic*

 

but it takes tooooooo long for me.

 

 

 

Depending on what you can afford to use (low level cw armor up to 99 smithing) depends on how effective this is time-wise. Personally, (obviously your view is different and that is 100% okay, lol :) ) I prefer the extra xp over the slight speed loss. I would recommend trying it for 10 minutes to an hour on each before you decide for sure (it looked like you only tried it once from your screeny is the only reason I mention it). It sounds that you have given it a try and found it lacking which is just fine. Giving it a try is the victory here, lol.

 

 

 

I have roughly heard of the idea, but its great to see how much effort you have put into getting the xp per plank etc. I might try and get 68 smithing to have a go at this. Hmm I better start on mining coal and iron once I reach 70 Agility.

 

 

 

If you have done (or can do) Throne of Misc. and Royal Trouble, I would suggest using it for coal and mining your own iron northeast of Yanille. Better xp and faster than mining the coal as well. Just a quick tip. :)

 

 

 

it kinda breaks even because of the time factor...you can build 1 oak larder per 6 armor stands. Also consider the addition of having to remove the armor as well. I actally did this before to level my construction. Personally, i found making legend's cape stands more time effective than armor stands. If you can buy gold cwars or make rune armor, then itll be worth it.

 

 

 

The times have been roughly worked out so it is up to personal preference as stated. Legend's capes require teak planks, don't give smithing xp, and are FAR more expensive than oak anything. Oak larders would be both cheaper and faster from my tests. I would appreciate if you could post your times and xp rates, though. No such thing as too much testing. :

 

 

 

I think the idea is great! I wish I had used it before but I'm *out of luck* on this one (no more membership). I suppose during my F2P I'll try to get enough material for 68 Smithing! I can't wait for the free smithing xp to roll in! I could really, REALLY use an easier way to train Smithing.

 

 

 

Edit: Oh yeah, I would favor this idea because of it's money-saving efforts. Training a skill to 99 is going to be slow, no matter what. I'd rather spend a few more minutes doing something and save myself a couple mil instead of wasting my vast fortunes of 2 Million gold!

 

 

 

If that acronym meant what I thought it did you should know better, lol.

 

 

 

-RAHK-

 

 

 

Other than the edit :shame: I am glad to hear that. :D One person saving some cash from this makes all of that math, research, and testing totally worth it.

 

 

 

Nice find rahk.

 

I'm ashamed to have never thought of this.

 

Yea it will be slower, but getting that tough smithing xp too for free is nice.

 

I'll give it a shot the next time I level con.

 

 

 

Bah, don't be ashamed, lol. You have helped many people with your posts so I am glad to return the favor. :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am glad that people are giving this a try. It won't be better for everybody but testing it out for yourself won't hurt you and you can find out which is superior for you.

[alwin_loser]

tyvm now i only need 3.5mil for 67 con from 50 on, then i can make house tablets.

[devle]

good god.... it took me 10 minetes to read must have taken u 3 hours with all the back up math and junk to write

[RAHK]

good god.... it took me 10 minetes to read must have taken u 3 hours with all the back up math and junk to write

 

 

 

... double that. :oops: I was so tired that the numbers were mixing together, lol. It was pretty sad when I had to use a calulator to figure out what 60 plus 60 was... :-w :oops:

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

 

 

Lol, I just got a con AND smithing level off one mmas.

 

 

 

[Dead_Dude4]

Ahh, you posted my secret :anxious:

 

 

 

Just reached 99 smithing 2 days ago (iron smelthing/smithing) and started doing this way of con training. It takes a while, but the cash that you save is worth it :) Specially when you chop your own oaks like me =P~

[rft]

this sounds like a corking idea. Personally, I find that it takes long enough to make enough oak larders for my next con level. I am a fan more of speed than cost (although the expense of levelling is pretty annoying). However, I might try using this to mix and match my con levelling so that it isnt so boring. The addition of smithing xp is a real incentive too.

 

 

 

I'll try using this method to try and haul myself up to 75 con (73 at the mo) and see how I feel about it. If I pick up a smithing level too along the way, then all the better (69 smith - not far to go until i can start smithing addy items)

[FastForce]

Does this method works with monster heads? Do you get the heads back when you remove them? Fr33 slayer xp pl0x?

 

 

 

I'm gonna use your method to lvl up now :P

[RAHK]

Does this method works with monster heads? Do you get the heads back when you remove them? Fr33 slayer xp pl0x?

 

 

 

I'm gonna use your method to lvl up now :P

 

 

 

I think the "rule" is that if you can equip it, you can get it back. I haven't checked out everything but that is what it looks like to me. So, no, once you remove the monster head/stuff fish it is gone.

 

 

 

 

 

Have fun saving some cash, btw. :)

[Pionex40]

Awesome tip here.

 

 

 

Now I will start replacing my Runite Set. =D>

[RAHK]

Awesome tip here.

 

 

 

Now I will start replacing my Runite Set. =D>

 

 

 

One of you disgusting 99 smithers. :P :lol: You make me cry myself to sleep.

 

 

 

88 smithing is my next immediate goal because of this. Funny thing is that this all started from a single question, lol.

[primadog]

I am quite interested in your experiment but I have a few points that i question:

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

After a ten minute test I successfully made 60 mmas and 25 larders (in the second test).

 

 

 

Why is there a difference in speed between larders and mma for you? The animation of constructing and removing a larder or a mma should be exactly the same, so wouldn't it be 60 mma comparing to 60 larders?

 

 

 

Perhaps you are assuming for the extra number of trips the servant have to make:

 

 

 

60 mma * 2 oak/mma / 16 oak/cook = 7.5 trips/cook

 

 

 

60 larders * 8 oak/mma / 16 oak/cook = 30 trips/cook

 

 

 

 

 

assuming that the servant takes 10sec per trip, that means the servant will take this much more time for larder:

 

 

 

cook (30-7.5) = 22.5 trips * 10 sec/trip / 60sec/min = 3.5min

 

 

 

60 larder/ 13.5min = 44 larder / 10min

 

 

 

Which is around the amount of larders I make 10 min. Perhaps you're more used to making mam than making larders?

[RAHK]

I am quite interested in your experiment but I have a few points that i question:

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

After a ten minute test I successfully made 60 mmas and 25 larders (in the second test).

 

 

 

Why is there a difference in speed between larders and mma for you? The animation of constructing and removing a larder or a mma should be exactly the same, so wouldn't it be 60 mma comparing to 60 larders?

 

 

 

Perhaps you are assuming for the extra number of trips the servant have to make:

 

 

 

60 mma * 2 oak/mma / 16 oak/cook = 7.5 trips/cook

 

 

 

60 larders * 8 oak/mma / 16 oak/cook = 30 trips/cook

 

 

 

 

 

assuming that the servant takes 10sec per trip, that means the servant will take this much more time for larder:

 

 

 

cook (30-7.5) = 22.5 trips * 10 sec/trip / 60sec/min = 3.5min

 

 

 

60 larder/ 13.5min = 44 larder / 10min

 

 

 

 

 

Which is around the amount of larders I make 10 min. Perhaps you're more used to making mam than making larders?

 

 

 

If you are using the same method as me (noted oak logs > unnoted logs > planks > repeat) I can assure you that you would be hard pressed to make 44 larders in 10 minutes even with a demon butler. That would be well over 120k xp an hour. Try it because I just don't think it is possible. I know that 25 is hardly the max because I haven't raised con in ages but I doubt more than 30-35 is possible under the very best circumstances. Same thing goes for mas though, of course.

 

 

 

You have forgotten a very critical point. If you take what you said "Why is there a difference in speed between larders and mma for you? The animation of constructing and removing a larder or a mma should be exactly the same, so wouldn't it be 60 mma comparing to 60 larders?" you will realize that you are only counting the time to construct an item. This would assume that you had an unlimited supply of oak planks on hand. The oak larders require many more butler trips due to the fact that their construction is done in a fourth of the time; i.e. 4 times the trips and 4 times the waiting. :wink:

 

 

 

In other words, lets say that it takes 2 seconds to make either a larder or mas, 10 seconds PER trip, and 2 seconds per trip initiation (all of the clicking to get the butler to unnote and/or plank). Starting from noted oaks, gp, hammer, saw, and an otherwise empty inventory, both paths require 2 seconds for trip chat, 10 seconds for unnoting, 2 seconds for trip chat, and 10 seconds for planking. Thats 24 seconds so far each.

 

 

 

MAS - 20 seconds to make 10 mas and 24 seconds for another round trip.

 

10 round trips = 440 seconds

 

Larder - 4 seconds to make 2 larders, 24 seconds round trip

 

10 round trips = 280 seconds

 

16 round trips = 448 seconds

 

 

 

Using these times (which aren't accurate but serve their purpose for example) it requires 60% more trips to make an equal amount of larders as mas. That means that you will make 60% more larders than mas using these times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The way I measured it was:

 

I had 1kish noted oak logs, 500kish gp, hammer, saw, and an otherwise empty inventory for both tests. I started the time for both when I used a noted log on the butler. I stopped the time when I finished whichever one I was currently making. I did not finish my inventory on purpose for either but I think both happened to land on the last plank. At that point I counted the gained xp and divided by the xp per item.

 

In other words, I actually tested it instead of used math like the rest of what I posted. Try it yourself, there is no way to get the same number of larders as mas's in 10 minutes without constantly flowing oak planks into your inventory ceaselessly. No butler can cover that difference.

[primadog]

XD RAHK, you're on!

 

 

 

Will let you know in 10min. This is my setup:

 

 

 

 

 

500 oaks LOGS, hammer, saw, cash

 

 

 

starting at 10:30:00 EST

 

 

 

will end at 10:40:00 EST

 

 

 

I have a butler---------------

 

20 oak logs note -

 

receive 20 oak logs

 

20 oak logs + 5k gp -

 

receive 20 oak planks

 

20 oak logs note -

 

receive 20 oak logs

 

2 larder

 

------

 

20 oak logs + 5k gp

 

remove larder

 

receive 20 oak planks

 

20 oak logs note

 

 

 

3 larder

 

receive 20 oak logs

 

repeat cycle

 

 

 

--- Starting EXP 1096691

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Logs remaining:

 

220

 

Total logs used:

 

280

 

 

 

exp: 1113491

 

 

 

280 logs / 8 = 35 larder/10min

 

 

 

XD right at middle between your # and mine

 

 

 

I think I can push 45 /w demon butler

[RAHK]

Dang, fast! 35 is what I mentioned that I expected as the max so that is pretty quick. Since the demon returns before you finish your larders I doubt the speed would be more than 1 or 2 more.

 

 

 

Now you just have to test the armor stands (or oak chairs that require 2 oak planks if you don't have cw armor or 68+ smithing) and see what you get compared to me.

 

 

 

You started without unnoted planks or logs correct? If so, make sure you do the same with the armor stands. Since you are that much faster than me (I'm rusty, lol, give me a break) on larders you should be relatively that much faster on armor stands. Without the practice you will probably fall a little short of the max but that is to be expected.

[primadog]

 

 

 

In other words, lets say that it takes 2 seconds to make either a larder or mas, 10 seconds PER trip, and 2 seconds per trip initiation (all of the clicking to get the butler to unnote and/or plank). Starting from noted oaks, gp, hammer, saw, and an otherwise empty inventory, both paths require 2 seconds for trip chat, 10 seconds for unnoting, 2 seconds for trip chat, and 10 seconds for planking. Thats 24 seconds so far each.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although your estimates are quite close to reality, if you make the larders/mam while the butler go unnote the oaks for you, you are utilizing the trip time to make larders, ie the larder time will not be part of equation:

 

 

Larder - 24 seconds round trip

 

10 round trips = 240 seconds

 

16 round trips = 480 seconds

 

25 round trips = 600 seconds

 

 

 

If you're efficient enough /w demon butler, you can theoretically make:

 

25 round trip/10min * 3 larder/trip = 75 larders every 10 minute

 

 

 

More likely to be only 50-70% efficiency, I'll test it with demon butler some other time.

 

 

 

RE to above post, heading off to class. One note, the above test is done with Butler, not Demon Butler, and noted oak logs, not oak planks.

 

 

 

Will return to finish the debate

[RAHK]

 

 

 

In other words, lets say that it takes 2 seconds to make either a larder or mas, 10 seconds PER trip, and 2 seconds per trip initiation (all of the clicking to get the butler to unnote and/or plank). Starting from noted oaks, gp, hammer, saw, and an otherwise empty inventory, both paths require 2 seconds for trip chat, 10 seconds for unnoting, 2 seconds for trip chat, and 10 seconds for planking. Thats 24 seconds so far each.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although your estimates are quite close to reality, if you make the larders/mam while the butler go unnote the oaks for you, you are utilizing the trip time to make larders, ie the larder time will not be part of equation:

 

 

Larder - 24 seconds round trip

 

10 round trips = 240 seconds

 

16 round trips = 480 seconds

 

25 round trips = 600 seconds

 

 

 

If you're efficient enough /w demon butler, you can theoretically make:

 

25 round trip/10min * 3 larder/trip = 75 larders every 10 minute

 

 

 

More likely to be only 50-70% efficiency, I'll test it with demon butler some other time.

 

 

 

RE to above post, heading off to class. One note, the above test is done with Butler, not Demon Butler, and noted oak logs, not oak planks.

 

 

 

Will return to finish the debate

 

 

 

I was using those numbers simply to show the math that I was referring to. I doubt that those numbers are close to the actual ones, and if they are that was purely luck on my part, lol. I will probably be off by the time you get back from class so I won't be able to reply until later. :-#

[silver24-7]

I've been thinking about it since the moment I saw you could remove your armor stand and get back your armor.

 

I checked on speed because it didn't seem as practical as oak larders and after checking it's speed I discarded the idea because it was too slow for my liking :P

[primadog]

The rest of the data:

 

# of mas made in 10min /w butler:

 

 

 

start 200 oaks logs

 

end 100 oaks logs

 

 

 

200 - 100 = 100 oak / 2 oak/mas

 

=50 mas / 10min

 

 

 

# of Larders made in 10min /w demon butler:

 

 

 

starting 500 oak logs

 

end 116 oak logs

 

 

 

500 - 116 = 384 oak / 8 oak/larder

 

= 48 larder/ 10min

 

 

 

 

 

------------------------------

 

around 12-15 sec for butler a trip

 

1-5 sec for him to walk to you

 

5 sec for convo

 

5-7 sec for remove/build cycle

 

------------------------------

 

Theoretical maximum /w butler for mas:

 

12sec/trip *2 + 1 sec/walk * 2 + 5 sec/cov * 2 = 36 sec / round trip

 

20 log / 2 log/mas * 5sec/mam = 50 sec / trip

 

10min * 60sec/min / (50+36) * 10 mas/trip

 

 

 

= 70 mas / 10min

 

 

 

Theoretical maximum /w butler for larder:

 

12sec/trip *2 + 1 sec/walk * 2 + 5 sec/cov * 2 = 36 sec / round trip

 

*build time is shared with round trip time, therefore not counted

 

10min * 60sec/min / (36) * 2.5 larder/trip

 

 

 

= 41.5 larder / 10min

 

 

 

*The build time cannot be shared when doing mam because if the butler return the logs into your inventory, you can no longer remove the armor (you do not have the space for it).

 

 

 

 

 

------------------------------

 

around 7 sec for demon butler a trip

 

1-5 sec for him to walk to you

 

5 sec for convo

 

5-7 sec for remove/build cycle

 

------------------------------

 

Theoretical maximum /w demon butler for mas:

 

7sec/trip *2 + 1 sec/walk * 2 + 5 sec/cov * 2 = 26 sec / round trip

 

20 log / 2 log/mam * 5sec/mam = 50 sec / trip

 

10min * 60sec/min / (50+26) * 10 mas/trip

 

 

 

= 79 mas / 10min

 

 

 

Theoretical maximum /w demon butler for larder:

 

7sec/trip *2 + 1 sec/walk * 2 + 5 sec/cov * 2 = 26 sec / round trip

 

*build time is shared with round trip time, therefore not counted:

 

10min * 60sec/min / (26) * 3 larder/trip

 

 

 

= 69 larder / 10min

[RAHK]

I've been thinking about it since the moment I saw you could remove your armor stand and get back your armor.

 

I checked on speed because it didn't seem as practical as oak larders and after checking it's speed I discarded the idea because it was too slow for my liking :P

 

 

 

If you take a glance at the times you might want to check the value for yourself. I knew this was slower con xp but was suprised at how fast it still was and how much cash I was saving overall. To each their own though, of course. :D

 

 

 

The rest of the data:

 

# of mam made in 10min /w butler:

 

 

 

start 200 oaks logs

 

end 100 oaks logs

 

 

 

200 - 100 = 100 oak / 2 oak/mam

 

=50 mam / 10min

 

 

 

How did you get so few completed? I was slow and completed 20% more than you. Was your's a "perfect" round? As in you didn't get any randoms, didn't have to switch out of build mode, and didn't have to juggle planks/logs due to not removing the stand in time? I am guessing that you just don't have the efficiency tricks under your belt yet. I listed a few at the bottom.

 

 

 

# of Larders made in 10min /w demon butler:

 

 

 

starting 500 oak logs

 

end 116 oak logs

 

 

 

500 - 116 = 384 oak / 8 oak/larder

 

= 48 larder/ 10min

 

 

 

I fired my demon butler, lol. Such a waste in cash. I am considering switching to the cook in fact. Yay, more savings, lol. If you feel up to the math you can convert the speed and the cost for demon butlers, oak logs, and larders versus cooks, oak logs, and any armor stand. Then do it for planks if you really want, lol.

 

 

 

 

 

------------------------------

 

around 12-15 sec for butler a trip

 

1-5 sec for him to walk to you

 

5 sec for convo

 

5-7 sec for remove/build cycle

 

------------------------------

 

Theoretical maximum /w butler for mam:

 

12sec/trip *2 + 1 sec/walk * 2 + 5 sec/cov * 2 = 36 sec / round trip

 

20 log / 2 log/mam * 5sec/mam = 50 sec / trip

 

10min * 60sec/min / (50+36) * 10 mam/trip

 

 

 

= 70 mam / 10min

 

 

 

Theoretical maximum /w butler for larder:

 

12sec/trip *2 + 1 sec/walk * 2 + 5 sec/cov * 2 = 36 sec / round trip

 

*build time is shared with round trip time, therefore not counted

 

10min * 60sec/min / (36) * 2.5 larder/trip

 

 

 

= 41.5 larder / 10min

 

 

 

*The build time cannot be shared when doing mam because if the butler return the logs into your inventory, you can no longer remove the armor (you do not have the space for it).

 

 

 

This is mostly incorrect. Read the bottom part for why/how.

 

 

 

 

 

------------------------------

 

around 7 sec for demon butler a trip

 

1-5 sec for him to walk to you

 

5 sec for convo

 

5-7 sec for remove/build cycle

 

------------------------------

 

Theoretical maximum /w demon butler for mam:

 

7sec/trip *2 + 1 sec/walk * 2 + 5 sec/cov * 2 = 26 sec / round trip

 

20 log / 2 log/mam * 5sec/mam = 50 sec / trip

 

10min * 60sec/min / (50+26) * 10 mam/trip

 

 

 

= 79 mam / 10min

 

 

 

Theoretical maximum /w demon butler for larder:

 

7sec/trip *2 + 1 sec/walk * 2 + 5 sec/cov * 2 = 26 sec / round trip

 

*build time is shared with round trip time, therefore not counted:

 

10min * 60sec/min / (26) * 3 larder/trip

 

 

 

= 69 larder / 10min

 

 

 

What does your acronym, "mam", mean? I have been using mas for Metal Armor Stand. Just wondering. :)

 

 

 

 

 

All of the times for both are identical for everything except one part (the bolded step). It takes the same time to send the noted, the same time for the logs to arrive, the same time to send the logs, the same time to recieve the planks, the same time to send the notes again, the same time to m&b 2 units which takes the same time for the logs to arrive (if you dissasemble both at the end you will be holding the armor when the worker arrives so you do not get jammed with too many planks and logs), build 6 mas, the same time to send the logs, the same time to recieve the planks (while waiting for them to arrive you can build your last two mas's thereby not altering the time), the same time to send the notes, the same time to m&b 2 units, the same time for the logs to arrive, build 6 mas again, rinse and repeat.

 

The single difference in time is the making of the 6 (2 before "official" m&b time and 2 after) mas (10 total using the butler). Everything else is identical. The reason that larders do not have nearly as many made as mas is because of the fact that most of the time is spent waiting on your worker.

 

Before sending the logs to the planker you can build all but 2 of the mas. This leaves you with 2 more m&b's while you wait for the planks to arrive again as mentioned.

 

 

 

The difference in time between demon butlers, butlers, and (probably but haven't tested it out yet) cooks using oak logs (and likely planks as well) for making any mas is negligible. You are only dependent on their speed for the very first loads actually. During the rest of the time you will always be building while waiting so the slower your worker, the more efficient your time spent while saving gp on fees. In other words, you can build 1 (demon butler) to 3/4 (cook) mas while they are traveling and then take up less time in building the rest (up to 11 with butler and as few as 1 or even 0 with the cook).

 

 

 

 

 

Bah, after writing all of that I have confused what my point was, lol. Basically, the only difference in time per round trip between larders and mas's is the building of 6 mas using a butler. Therefore the only 2 times needed are how fast you can m&b a single mas and the total time for a worker's round trip. Take 10 minutes, divide that by the round trip time, and multiply that buy 2.5 (the number of larders made per round) to find the max number of larders that can be built in 10 minutes. Do the same but add 6 times the time it takes to m&b a single mas to the round trip time and multiply by 10 instead of 2 for the max number of mas's that can be built in 10 minutes.

 

Example:

 

Using your 36 second round trip and 5 second per m&b estimates:

 

10 minutes / 36 seconds x 2.5 = 41 larders max per 10 minutes

 

10 minutes / 36+(6x5) x 10 = 90 mas's max per 10 minutes

 

Using 7 seconds per m&b it would = 76 mas's max per 10 minutes

 

 

 

This assumes that your 36 second round trips and your 5-7 second m&b cycles are correct which I do not know.

 

 

 

I think that your numbers were off mostly because of wasting time building when you could be using that time to send stuff AND build.

 

The difference in time between workers is so small that a cook is the best choice for mas while the opposite is true for larders. In other words the difference between workers for mas's is hardly noticeable while the differenc is huge for larders. That difference is even more noticeable with planks as opposed to logs due to the fact that there is more downtime for m&b compared to trip speed.

 

 

 

I will assume that a cook trip takes 18 seconds (a guess) which adds 12 seconds to the 36 for a total of 48. Since the cook only brings 16 things at once and is slower I will assume that you can get 3 things made per downtime cycle (which leaves 2):

 

Using cook the max mas per 10 minute period is:

 

10 minutes / 48+(5x2) x 8 = 82 mas's max per 10 minute period

 

Same thing with larders:

 

10 minutes / 48 x 2 = 25 larders max per 10 minute period

 

Using your times for the demon butler and the downtime cycle remainder of 11 for mas:

 

Using Demon Butler the max mas per 10 minute period is:

 

10 minutes / 26+(5x11) x 13 = 96 mas's max per 10 minute period

 

Larders:

 

10 minutes / 26 x 3 = 69 larders max per 10 minute period

 

 

 

So the difference between cooks and demons for mas's is 17.1% with a 333% increase in cost while larders' difference is 276% with the same 333% increase in cost. Not worth it for mas's while nearly required for larders. Just another way that mas's end up being a lot cheaper in the long run.