Justification for Derelict Arrow Taking, so called Stealing

[voncritic]

By the time I reached F2P Range 90 last night, I found I had a really long journey in almost all F2P ranging spots. "Arrow Stealing" is not only a term that I heard everyday, but also something that I felt ironic and pathetic ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ not for the takers, so called "arrow thieves", but for those rangers who failed to retrieve their arrows and flame others about it.

 

 

 

From my level 1 to 90, the only occasion that other player took away my arrows, was when I trained near Crafting Guild across from the Hobgoblin peninsula. I dumped about 5K bronze arrows without taking them back. Other than that, I am confident to say that no one has ever seen my arrows appearing on the screen unless I got disconnected or caught into a random event while ranging.

 

 

 

I wrote the following article for all Tip.it friends, especially those who care about their arrows. Yes, I side with derelict arrow takers (so called arrow thieves).

 

 

 

Justification for Derelict Arrow Taking

 

 

 

Unlike scamming, derelict arrow taking, so called "arrow stealing" by many rangers, is not forbidden by Jagex, nor it should be considered guilty or to be flamed about. Derelict arrows are as same as derelict ores, GPs, items and loots, it is open to all players who have seen them (including the ranger who fired them), and it is up to their choice and reflex to obtain them.

 

 

 

Why is derelict arrow taking considered guilty? Why do people flame derelict arrow takers? How do people convict derelict arrow takers? The answers could be:

 

 

 

1. Derelict arrow takers are taking advantage of me, taking away (stealing) my GP!

 

2. Derelict arrow takers are shortening my training duration, causing me trouble to reach my goal!

 

3. Derelict arrow takers are against the common practice of good players!

 

4. Derelict arrow takers are noobs who know no rule or manner!

 

5. Derelict arrow takers are those who can't afford their own arrows!

 

6. Derelict arrow takers are hated (losers, cheap), for no reason!

 

 

 

Well, if your reason is 4, 5, or 6, it seems that you care about arrows takers more than your arrows; with all due respect, you don't have to finish this article because no article can abolish prejudice. I can't change the way you feel when you believe that it was "your" arrow, but actually not. For those who believe reason 1, 2 and 3, read on:

 

 

 

1. Yes, for sure. You spent money and time for your arrows. However, when your item appears as a red dot to others on the screen, it is no longer "just yours", it is a derelict item that seeks for the quickest click to get it. You could retrieve those arrows in time when it was not appeared to others, but you didn't.

 

 

 

Some may say: "Wait! I just need to finish my opponent before I reach out for arrows, I don't want to get wounded or killed, just wait!"

 

 

 

Well, that comes to another point ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ if your range level is low, you have to bear the risk that you can't kill the opponent fast enough. Would it be sweet to stay ranging in a safe spot, wipe out an opponent as long as it takes, and find all your arrows there? Sorry, but that is not how it works. There are hundreds of efficient safe spots in the RS world, but not all of them fit your profile. It is your choice to fight in an area that exceeds your ranging capability.

 

 

 

2. Your training duration will not be significantly shortened by losing 10-50 arrows. However, if all you have is like less than 1K arrows, yes it hurts, not significantly but more on the mental side. You will feel like: "OMG! That's a big portion of what I have! I don't want to lose it!" My suggestion is that you find better ways to get arrows, make it less important to you, and train more efficiently in an area that fits your skill profile.

 

 

 

3. RS is world filled with different types of players. There are pkers and non-pkers, pures and mains, combat players and non-combat skillers, soft-and-kind players and aggressive players. Every legitimate player (abide by Jagex rules) can justify the way they are playing. Derelict arrow taking may not be friendly, but it is justified.

 

 

 

Why do people take away derelict arrows? Why do people intensively take away derelict arrows while the ranger who fires them is yelling "stop" or even flaming?

 

 

 

1. Simple answer: they want those arrows. Like I said, since it appears on the screen to others, it is OK for others to obtain them. Enough said.

 

 

 

2. Arrow confusion. It could happen while several rangers are shooting in a same area using same kind of arrows. There's no need to make a fuss or to flame about such occasions.

 

 

 

3. Player competition / conflict

 

 

 

I have this point highlighted because it is the underlying reason that explains many arrow taking (or "arrow stealing") circumstances.

 

 

 

A ranger who can't retrieve his / her arrows in time is usually with low range level, or insufficient range level for the area. Some of them (or most of them) would flame the player who takes away their derelict arrows. If that's the case, many takers would just go on taking ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ either ignoring the flamer or just to "fight back" silently. Remember: derelict arrow taking does not break Jagex rules, offensive language does!

 

 

 

In some other cases, derelict arrow taking is an efficient way to get the ranger out of the area and/or the world. Thus, it works as a player competition tactic ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ same as multi-shooting, mining sequence, target stealing, and all other player competition tactics. As we all believe, it is just a game, and since it is a game, it is competition.

 

 

 

A perfect example is that, while fighting level 82 Lesser Demons, some low level rangers are sitting in the safe spot taking forever to finish a demon. While there are only 6 Lesser Demons around the safe spot, and the competition is sometimes fierce. Low hit means low XP per minute, and also slower re-spawn, and thus, slower XP for others too. If taking those derelict arrows he shot can get him out of the area / world, I'd be happy to do it (and it works). Meanwhile, the low level ranger can train in an easier area without having trouble retrieving their arrows and get more XP per minute.

 

 

 

In conclusion, derelict arrow taking, so called "arrow stealing", is not rule breaking, nor it shall be seen as in-game misbehavior. It is either a player competition tactic, or a conflict mainly caused by conceited rangers who didn't retrieve their arrows in time, or simply, those arrows are there to be taken.

[FrankyBrown]

Why have is there need for another topic on this??? All that needs to be said is: Arrows stealing isn't agaisnt the rules but its a low thing to do and anyone with a little respect for fellow players shouldn't do it. Btw it doesn't effect me at all because I use Karils or Crystal bow.

[misterbuckey]

I appluad and agree with the entire thing about derelict arrow taking. I especially loved your use on the word derelict. Kudos, pal. =D>

[Duke_Freedom]

I've watched this arrow stealling discussion for years now and must say it's really laughable. Never really went into the discussions about it, because I'm the type of guy who doesn't even bother to pick up his own arrows.

 

 

 

What those who call it "arrow stealing" try to reach is improperly demanding ownership on arrows that lay on the ground, visible for everyone.

 

 

 

It is the same kind of reasoning as that you should have "honour" when PKing in the wilderness. Their unwritten rules do not exist and should not exist. It is made up by people who want to make easy PK's or people who do not understand it is not called "the wilderness" without reason.

[Aijiru]

I'm a ranger too (f2p one, so i dont have fletching skill).

 

 

 

Well, that comes to another point ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ if your range level is low, you have to bear the risk that you can't kill the opponent fast enough. Would it be sweet to stay ranging in a safe spot, wipe out an opponent as long as it takes, and find all your arrows there? Sorry, but that is not how it works. There are hundreds of efficient safe spots in the RS world, but not all of them fit your profile. It is your choice to fight in an area that exceeds your ranging capability.

 

 

 

Nothing to say here, except that maybe some archers like to train on these spots due to the amount of the drops, like the lesser demons. But i agree with you, sometimes the monsters are too high for the ranger.

 

 

 

Only a point: there are some places (right now i can think on the ice giants) where the safe spots only rule for some monsters, as giants. When you stop to recover your arrows, you can easily be attacked by another monster of higher level, and you can't protect against it. It's one of the reasons why some rangers fail to pick up they arrows on time: because they know that if they leave the safe spot, they won't be able to return to it.

 

 

 

2. Your training duration will not be significantly shortened by losing 10-50 arrows. However, if all you have is like less than 1K arrows, yes it hurts, not significantly but more on the mental side.

 

 

 

Maybe, when all your arrows amount is like 500 arrows and you way to obtain them is buying from a p2p friend, it hurts a bit. And it slows your training, yes. But ok, if you want them, you should retrieve them on time... if you can :-s

 

 

 

1. Simple answer: they want those arrows. Like I said, since it appears on the screen to others, it is OK for others to obtain them. Enough said.

 

 

 

It seem like a slow way to gain arrows, since the amount of them is always between 5/25 arrows, and this is saying that the ranger failed to pick up his arrows all the time and not, as usually happens, cos he didn't counted the time to pick up them and they became visible.

 

 

 

2. Arrow confusion. It could happen while several rangers are shooting in a same area using same kind of arrows. There's no need to make a fuss or to flame about such occasions.

 

 

 

Ok, this happens. Sometimes it become really hard to see what are your arrows and what aren't. But these are accidents.

 

 

 

A ranger who can't retrieve his / her arrows in time is usually with low range level, or insufficient range level for the area. Some of them (or most of them) would flame the player who takes away their derelict arrows. If that's the case, many takers would just go on taking ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ either ignoring the flamer or just to "fight back" silently. Remember: derelict arrow taking does not break Jagex rules, offensive language does!

 

 

 

Sadly, you are right. Its the same kind of person who flames you for mining his ores, or fighting his monsters. Jagex doesn't have rules against immaturity -.-

 

 

 

In some other cases, derelict arrow taking is an efficient way to get the ranger out of the area and/or the world. Thus, it works as a player competition tactic ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ same as multi-shooting, mining sequence, target stealing, and all other player competition tactics. As we all believe, it is just a game, and since it is a game, it is competition.

 

 

 

A perfect example is that, while fighting level 82 Lesser Demons, some low level rangers are sitting in the safe spot taking forever to finish a demon. While there are only 6 Lesser Demons around the safe spot, and the competition is sometimes fierce. Low hit means low XP per minute, and also slower re-spawn, and thus, slower XP for others too. If taking those derelict arrows he shot can get him out of the area / world, I'd be happy to do it (and it works). Meanwhile, the low level ranger can train in an easier area without having trouble retrieving their arrows and get more XP per minute.

 

 

 

MMh, pollemic point. Yes, its a way to get the ranger out of the area, but not a polite way.

 

 

 

Some players use this tactic to cause low levels to go away, usually flaming them "go away, n00b!" You can see this on the hill giants, that is a usually crowded point to train (and also one of the places where you heard more "n00b" per minute) I have seen some meleers flaming rangers for being faster than them and catching the monsters first, as a vengeance, they take their arrows. Its not against the rules, but it's not polite, simply as that.

 

 

 

A last point i think you have forgot: some players (usually low levels) sometimes pick rangers arrows and then try to sell them again to the ranger, to earn some money. I have only found some of them...

[imaleber]

What's the point of a thread like this when there are countless others?

 

 

 

Get over it, it's a simple matter.

[meb]

You are so right. I'm glad someone made a post about this. If you can't kill a monster before the arrows appear, you shouldn't be training there. The end.

[Dragon_lord]

Taking arrows on the ground is kinda like mining.

 

Somethimes the other guy takes "your rock"

[Eyrelex]

I agree with what FrankyBrown said, although its not against the rules its a pretty low down thing to do. BTW, im not one of those ppl that flames arrow thieves i jus switch worlds when i encounter one or if he is a fellow ranger i steal his arrows.

 

 

 

What's the point of a thread like this when there are countless others?

 

 

 

Get over it, it's a simple matter.

 

He's obviously trying to get into the Tip.it Times.

[frogspoons]

persoanlly i adopt the same opinion as you. if you can't kill a blue dragon before your arrows appear, you don't deserve them. :lol:

 

 

 

I'm only saying that because i can though, I'm sure i'd get very mad if i couldn't.

[D. V. Devnull]

What's the point of a thread like this when there are countless others?

 

 

 

Get over it, it's a simple matter.

 

He's obviously trying to get into the Tip.it Times.

 

 

 

@ Eyrelex...: Maybe it would be a good thing if VonCritic posted a Tip.It Times for once and gave The Editor a break!

 

 

 

 

 

@ VonCritic...: Good thread start.

 

 

 

 

 

@ Everyone Else...: Please don't mutilate VonCritic for identifying and displaying that some people need to learn how to do their skills better. He's only trying to help clean up the rudeness, not spark more of it.

 

 

 

 

 

'Nuff said.

 

 

 

~Mr. D. V. Devnull

[DeadPolkaDots1]

I agree with the larger proportion of your post, however I respect other people and never steal arrows with intention. Each to their own I suppose. :)

[Soma2035]

I agree with most of your post except the explanations for why people steal arrows.

 

 

 

I'm perfectly willing to take a ranger's arrows at blue dragons. That's because, in my opinion, dragons should be able to fight back. That's my personal belief, and I'm infuriated by the rangers and mages who simply trap the dragons on a stalgamite due to the lack of a ranged attack and hte stupidity of the AI.

 

 

 

Therefore, I go out of my way to annoy any ranger or mage who tries such tactics.

[imaleber]

What's the point of a thread like this when there are countless others?

 

 

 

Get over it, it's a simple matter.

 

He's obviously trying to get into the Tip.it Times.

 

 

 

@ Eyrelex...: Maybe it would be a good thing if VonCritic posted a Tip.It Times for once and gave The Editor a break!

 

 

 

 

 

@ VonCritic...: Good thread start.

 

 

 

 

 

@ Everyone Else...: Please don't mutilate VonCritic for identifying and displaying that some people need to learn how to do their skills better. He's only trying to help clean up the rudeness, not spark more of it.

 

 

 

 

 

'Nuff said.

 

 

 

~Mr. D. V. Devnull

 

 

 

The discussion is not the problem. The problem is that this issue has been brought up before, and by that I don't mean once, but a lot more than that.

 

 

 

The concept is so simple.

[xxsheepxx]

Sometimes, when I unintentionally pick up arrows, I'm faced usually faced with one of three scenarios.

 

 

 

1. Ranger doesn't care. - I keep arrows.

 

 

 

2. "omg noob giv arrows or i report" - I ignore them.

 

 

 

3. Ranger asks for arrows back nicely. - I give them back.

 

 

 

It all matters how you ask it.

[transcript80]

I totally support VonCritic here!

 

 

 

It is not possible in RS to actually STEAL anything. The skill only apply to NPCs. All things visible to anyone, be it arrows, drops, mosters or ashes, are the possession of any of us!

 

 

 

Therefor, it is impossible to steal something. It's visible, and by that, anyone with a mous in his/her hands has the right to click on it.

 

 

 

*off topic* Who's the guy in you signature? He looks familiar... *on topic*

 

 

 

Nice thread, well written and well thought!

[Alex2828]

Why have is there need for another topic on this??? All that needs to be said is: Arrows stealing isn't agaisnt the rules but its a low thing to do and anyone with a little respect for fellow players shouldn't do it. Btw it doesn't effect me at all because I use Karils or Crystal bow.

 

 

 

OMG it's not low either. Personally i wouldn't pick them up unless they were addy+ but it's the rangers fault for not picking them up themselves.

[FrankyBrown]

Why have is there need for another topic on this??? All that needs to be said is: Arrows stealing isn't agaisnt the rules but its a low thing to do and anyone with a little respect for fellow players shouldn't do it. Btw it doesn't effect me at all because I use Karils or Crystal bow.

 

 

 

OMG it's not low either. Personally i wouldn't pick them up unless they were addy+ but it's the rangers fault for not picking them up themselves.

 

 

 

Wth how is it not low? you're taking someone elses arrows no matter what your excuses are you're still taking their arrows that they made/bought so its a low thing to do :wink: Also remember this doesnt effect me as I use Crystal bow for training and karils or cbow for fighting and when the rare chance I do use arrows, I dont bother picking up.

[Duke_Freedom]

Wth how is it not low? you're taking someone elses arrows no matter what your excuses are you're still taking their arrows that they made/bought so its a low thing to do :wink:

 

 

 

What those who call it "arrow stealing" try to reach is improperly demanding ownership on arrows that lay on the ground, visible for everyone.

[FrankyBrown]

Wth how is it not low? you're taking someone elses arrows no matter what your excuses are you're still taking their arrows that they made/bought so its a low thing to do :wink:

 

 

 

What those who call it "arrow stealing" try to reach is improperly demanding ownership on arrows that lay on the ground, visible for everyone.

 

 

 

It is a low thing to do? How can you argue it isn't :? Sure they're on the ground for everyone to see but its obvious who had previously owned them. Everyone can see them but its not nice to take them, can you tell me how it isnt a low thing to do? If you say they're on the ground and the ranger should have picked them up then that isn't really an excuse for it not being scummy lol. Say you see someone drop $20 in the street but they havent noticed, now you could pick it up and return it to them and do the right thing or you could keep it and be a pretty pathetic person.

 

 

 

I'm not saying its wrong but I am saying its morally wrong kay? If the person isn't picking up their arrows then fine, but if they are have a little respect and dont take them :wink:

[voncritic]

It is a low thing to do? How can you argue it isn't :? Sure they're on the ground for everyone to see but its obvious who had previously owned them. Everyone can see them but its not nice to take them, can you tell me how it isnt a low thing to do? If you say they're on the ground and the ranger should have picked them up then that isn't really an excuse for it not being scummy lol. Say you see someone drop $20 in the street but they havent noticed, now you could pick it up and return it to them and do the right thing or you could keep it and be a pretty pathetic person.

 

 

 

I'm not saying its wrong but I am saying its morally wrong kay? If the person isn't picking up their arrows then fine, but if they are have a little respect and dont take them :wink:

 

 

 

As much as you think your "$20 in the street" example makes a point here to challenge derelict arrow taker's moral rightness, you didn't even get a half of it.

 

 

 

Say someone dropped $20 in the street, they are not intentionally leaving it there, believing that everyone who sees it there should not take it, furthermore, watching that $20 and planning to pick it back to his pocket after some time - why on earth would anyone attempt to do that IRL? In the street? ROFL

 

 

 

Now, low rangers are sitting in safe spots, avoid getting hit by not retrieving their arrows intentionally before they finish their opponent while knowing those arrows would be seeing by other after a short period of time. Thus, such "drops" are intentional, period.

 

 

 

And since, those arrows are appeared on the screen as everybody can see, the previous ownership of those arrows is ended. Enough said.

 

 

 

[Edit] Thanks to Sumpta13, I meant to use the word "intentionally" instead of "intensively". Sorry for the stupid mistake.

[Sumpta]

You don't mean 'intentionally' instead of 'intensively' by any chance, do you? Sorry for being the language freak, but you do use the word three times, in bold.

 

 

 

On topic: this arrow-taking is the reason why I dislike ranging. I don't want to see my arrows getting lost, but I can't be bothered with the hassle of running after them the whole time either...

 

 

 

In any case, you can't compare it to real life. In real life, the arrows/cash/whatever won't just disappear into thin air. In RS, they do. This means that in many cases, if you don't pick up the arrows, they might just disappear because the ranger won't pick them up anyway. Why not take them? On the other hand, if you see him running around like mad to pick up his arrows, you could be a gentle(wo)man and not take them in his stead.

[D. V. Devnull]

On topic: this arrow-taking is the reason why I dislike ranging. I don't want to see my arrows getting lost, but I can't be bothered with the hassle of running after them the whole time either...

 

 

 

In any case, you can't compare it to real life. In real life, the arrows/cash/whatever won't just disappear into thin air. In RS, they do. This means that in many cases, if you don't pick up the arrows, they might just disappear because the ranger won't pick them up anyway. Why not take them? On the other hand, if you see him running around like mad to pick up his arrows, you could be a gentle(wo)man and not take them in his stead.

 

 

 

One thing I have noticed works at hill giants sometimes, if everyone is not in a bad mood, is for a ranger to ask a warrior or mage to pick up the arrows and please return them to the ranger that fired them. Politeness counts, and if the ranger doesn't want the arrows for any reason, or is only picking up every 5th load or so, at least you get some arrows free and clear and the ranger can't cry for leaving the arrows around.