mad4u689 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 I also have a question for atheist here. If there is no God, no life after death, and no greater purpose to life than preserving the species, then why argue against God? After I die, if there is no God to wake up to, then I won't think of my life as wasted. I believed in a greater purpose and was a better person because of it. But if there is a God, you will wake up to find that you were very wrong. God hates nothing more than seeing people go to hell. He wants everyone to come to Him, but he lets us choose our own fate. You should read about Pascal's Wager. Pascal, a famous philosopher, said almost exactly the same thing. :D Still, I disagree with it. I don't think you need God to live a meaningful life, but by all means, if it helps you live what you believe to be a meaningful life, you may as well do it, since there's no harm done. Also, it's a bit difficult to choose whether or not to believe in God or not. it's simply what I think is true about the world, and I don't think anything I could do would change the way I feel. :( As for heaven and hell, maybe - it's unlikely, but possible - there's an evil God, who would reward disbelief with heaven and belief with hell. It's not a sure thing, but it's at least a POSSIBILITY, and thus that's my major argument against Pascal's Wager... if you're interested in Pascal's Wager, be sure to read http://www.iep.utm.edu/p/pasc-wag.htm Everybody hug and spread the love :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir-Carson Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 yes i believe in God thats how i have been raised and i dont know but why did u post this this is gonna turn into flame war like it always does it would be better for the mods to just lock this board :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogact Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Yes, I do. jfroggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadril Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Yeah i do, but i also belive in evolution for some parts as well. Kind of Mixed between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartho_e Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 No, I'm a pure atheist and I have always been that way. I have very much respect for people that dedicate their lives to God, but it's just my choice to not live with the idea of somekind of God in my head. Or maybe it's only because I'm Dutch :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambochae Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 In the previous topic(s), when they began, I was a little naive. I declared myself an atheist, but what I really meant was agnostic. Prove to me a god exists and I will believe in it. In the meantime, I am leading a happy life, and follow many religious points anyway, because they are common sense. You can lead a good life without being religious. But one thing I am 100% sure of is that the Christian idea of god does not exist. If a god exists, it is not the christian idea of god, I am sure of it. But I am open minded if you can persuade me otherwise. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Creation is like this Unintelligent inanimate object coming into being through a simple process, implosion, explosion and renewal? V Intelligent being capible of doing everything and knowing everything coming into being and making something so infinetly complex, AND manage to design it in a way that life forms. Which seems more plausible? Naw. The definition of a necessary being is one that has always been, it is uncaused. A necessary being is necessary for atheists and theists alike. It's just a different being depending on what you believe. For theists, it's God. For most atheists, it would be matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogact Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 I do and I don't, its a weird thing, I mean, he didn't create the universe, thats been proved, but just some things make me think he could be real. Really? It has? Could you enlighten us please? How has that been proved? jfroggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambochae Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Creation is like this Unintelligent inanimate object coming into being through a simple process, implosion, explosion and renewal? V Intelligent being capible of doing everything and knowing everything coming into being and making something so infinetly complex, AND manage to design it in a way that life forms. Which seems more plausible? Naw. The definition of a necessary being is one that has always been, it is uncaused. A necessary being is necessary for atheists and theists alike. It's just a different being depending on what you believe. For theists, it's God. For most atheists, it would be matter. For me, it could be absolutely anything whatsoever. We have absolutely no real clue what is outside our universe, so the thing that caused our universe to exist could be... anything. If our universe was a ripple in a pond, that ripple could have been caused by a god like being deliberately making a splash, or it could have been caused by an acorn falling off a tree, or a drop of water raining from the sky. The ripple doesn't know, can't know, doesn't really need to know what created it. All it knows is to spread outwards, that's all it can do.* But if it were to speculate as to what created it, well it could be absolutely anything. I believe we are in that situation. *like the ripple only knows to spread outwards, all we know is the laws of physics in our universe. So really, in my opinion, to believe a god created the universe is like entering a bet when the odds of winning are one in infinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Creation is like this Unintelligent inanimate object coming into being through a simple process, implosion, explosion and renewal? V Intelligent being capible of doing everything and knowing everything coming into being and making something so infinetly complex, AND manage to design it in a way that life forms. Which seems more plausible? Naw. The definition of a necessary being is one that has always been, it is uncaused. A necessary being is necessary for atheists and theists alike. It's just a different being depending on what you believe. For theists, it's God. For most atheists, it would be matter. For me, it could be absolutely anything whatsoever. We have absolutely no real clue what is outside our universe, so the thing that caused our universe to exist could be... anything. If our universe was a ripple in a pond, that ripple could have been caused by a god like being deliberately making a splash, or it could have been caused by an acorn falling off a tree, or a drop of water raining from the sky. The ripple doesn't know, can't know, doesn't really need to know what created it. All it knows is to spread outwards, that's all it can do.* But if it were to speculate as to what created it, well it could be absolutely anything. I believe we are in that situation. *like the ripple only knows to spread outwards, all we know is the laws of physics in our universe. So really, in my opinion, to believe a god created the universe is like entering a bet when the odds of winning are one in infinity. Yep, all my point was, was that there has to be an uncaused being. Without it, anything is impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usara Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Why must it be god as you see him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Why must it be god as you see him? As far as I see it, the only other option is matter. 2nd law of thermodynamics states that given enough time, matter will break down into its smallest elements. Surely eternity is long enough ;). There are a few other things matter can't account for such as free will (everything we do will be determined by irrational objects. Using the law of cause and effect, an effect cannot exceed cause; cause being irrational, therefore effect cannot be greater than irrational leaving the thought of atheism irrational.) Truth - physical things cannot be classified as true or false. If the universe is ultimately material, then ideas are merely neuron patterns that cannot be classified as true or false. So if atheism is true, it can't be true. How we got to the present - if the matter for the universe always existed then an infinite number of moment had to have passed before we existed - this is impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usara Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 You are using the constant state as a basis for your argument. What about renewal? The world around you regularily breaks down and rebuilds itself on subatomic levels. Its like the legend of the pheonix, from the ashes of the past, the future will be born. You talk of god and claim everything else is impossible? That is completely unreasonable, you said it yourself, a being that has been for all eternity. Ifgod isnt physical, then he exsists only in your mind. Your bizaree reasons are nothing more than an attempt to justify the impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambochae Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Why must it be god as you see him? As far as I see it, the only other option is matter. Matter + A God = 2:infinity bet. It could be a giant chicken. It could be a circle with a diameter of three times it's radius. It could be absolutely, completely and utterly, anything at all. Even the things that the we are unable to even contemplate because we are a part of this universe and are subject to it's laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vape Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 * Cameron gives up on this thread. I've had my say, I don't have a problem with other people believing in God. Faith cannot be reasoned against. Where the bloody hell are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Your bizaree reasons are nothing more than an attempt to justify the impossible. Please, refute my actual reasons, where are my objections to matter being eternal wrong? The things of this earth can break down and renew because they are given energy from different places (ie the sun). In the beginning, how can this matter get energy enough to reproduce? And how does a non-living thing reproduce? Oh and Chambochae, here's what I see: Either an impersonal creator who doesn't choose to create or a personal creator. An impersonal creator would be matter, a personal creator would be what's known as 'God'. I'm just arguing against the impersonal here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kielmccaul75 Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 I do beleive in a god not sure which. I beleive these posts should be banmned due to spamming on them as well as flaming... ~ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâä~Kielmccaul75~ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâä~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord9000 Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 No I do not believe in God, or any religion for that matter. I was brought up to believe in it, but feel that religion should not be pushed upon anyone, and that people should be able to make up there own minds. I also hate these kind of topics because it always ends up people arguing why there is or isn't a god, and everyone who argues thinks that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeob1 Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 I'm not sure wether I do believe in God at all. I was raised into a Catholic family, but I don't know if it is for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augsback Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Yes. 8) Always have and always will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugATree Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Your bizaree reasons are nothing more than an attempt to justify the impossible. Please, refute my actual reasons, where are my objections to matter being eternal wrong? The things of this earth can break down and renew because they are given energy from different places (ie the sun). In the beginning, how can this matter get energy enough to reproduce? And how does a non-living thing reproduce? Matter is just another form of energy. Energy is never created or destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke_Freedom Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Your bizaree reasons are nothing more than an attempt to justify the impossible. Please, refute my actual reasons, where are my objections to matter being eternal wrong? The things of this earth can break down and renew because they are given energy from different places (ie the sun). In the beginning, how can this matter get energy enough to reproduce? And how does a non-living thing reproduce? Matter is just another form of energy. Energy is never created or destroyed. Yup, E = MC^2 (Energy = Mass * Square of the Speed of Light). The value of my bank at its height. Estimated value at the peak of the rares market: 250 billion+.Most likely the largest trade in RuneScape ever. Estimated value at the peak of the rares market: 70 billion+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyalFlush Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Well, for the record, yes I do belive there is a god. Off the record, Im kind of at a "burnout" stage in my life, where I am questioning inside whether I truly belvie or not. If it isn't in your veins, you'll never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Your bizaree reasons are nothing more than an attempt to justify the impossible. Please, refute my actual reasons, where are my objections to matter being eternal wrong? The things of this earth can break down and renew because they are given energy from different places (ie the sun). In the beginning, how can this matter get energy enough to reproduce? And how does a non-living thing reproduce? Matter is just another form of energy. Energy is never created or destroyed. So how does it renew itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonsie Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 I don't beleive in god and until somebody can prove without a doubt god exists I will never beleive fully in a god, or organsied religion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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