Abyss VS FFL

[Uula]

Well, we had an interesting discussion on the unofficial Tip.It irc channel, whether craft at the world 66 Fast Free Laws company(FFL from now on.), or make your own nats through the Abyssal space. I concluded that yes, it is faster to 91 using FFL, but you would lose around 11 gp per exp. With nats, you would be making over 22 gp per exp gained, but slower than at FFL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The main reason to get 91 rc is to make an awful lot of money in no time. It's fairly easy to average 2k ess per hour, which would mean over 1M gp in cash. So if you were to use FFL, you would probably want to make all the cash back, and also make some more cash to profit even more! But is it really better to use FFL, you know you would make A LOT of money with nats even before it. That's why I'm here, to show you some calculations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fast Free Laws

 

 

 

Exp/h: Almost 30k at a good time.

 

 

 

Profit: -110 gp for each 9.5 xp; or roughly -11.5 gp per xp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Abyss, nature runes

 

 

 

Exp/h: Up to 20k using super energies, around 18k without. Let's say without for easier calculations.

 

 

 

Profit: 200 gp per 9 xp; or roughly 22.2 gp per xp.

 

 

 

NOTE: This is using ALL 4 pouches, so we will calculate only from level 75 and on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exp @level 75: 1,210,421

 

 

 

Exp @level 91: 5,902,831

 

 

 

Difference: 4,692,410 exp

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, the next part:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fast Free Laws

 

 

 

Total profit: 4,692,410 * ( -11.5 ) = -53,962,715 gp

 

 

 

Time spent: 4,692,410/30,000 ~ 156.4 hours

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Abyss, nature runes

 

 

 

Total profit: 4,692,410 * 22.2 = 104,171,502 gp

 

 

 

Time spent: 4,692,410/18,000 ~ 260.7 hours

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, here we got the second part. With FFL it's around 104 hours faster to get from 75 to 91, BUT it costs almost 150m more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you want to get back to 0 gp made/lost, you'll have to rc for 54 hours through the abyss. Well, that might still be 50h less than with nats all the way. BUT, you have still not made the 104m that you would have with nats. If you want to make that money, which is the main idea, you will have to spend another 104 hours crafting. Now you've all of a sudden used 54 MORE hours than you would have with nats. Of course, you will have gotten a few levels after 91, but not as much cash. In that 54 hours the one that went with nats all the way, will have made 54m more cash than you, and is always a step before you with money, but not xp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FINAL CONCLUSION:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FFL is slower money, but great if you're after the levels past 91.

 

 

 

Nats are slower xp, but great if you're after the money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Discuss!

[jade_slayer6]

aye, you dont see any double law crafters do ya? lol :

[wakka102]

haha that was a arguement with me :D . I love chatting with you guys on there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great arguement too but im too close to 91 for it to matter at this point :lol:

[m4tty]

imo ffl is best in the long run

[Joltia]

Heh I was really lucky because I bought the ess I needed for 91 RC (568k Ess) 2 days before the pure ess update for 30 gp each. 8-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Costing around 20m all up, I think it was pretty well worth it. O:)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It did take me 3 months from 67-91 though. :-$

[DRUMINATOR17]

a few remarks about this....in no particular order just however i babble them out

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1st: your basically doing the math for us and leaving the decision as to which way which makes sense as 91 rc is alot of work one way or the other

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2nd: good work calculations seem to add up and all =D>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3rd: if your willling to allow me to throw a monkey wrench into your whole set up and methods to get rc lvls please add a post saying so otherwise ill just leave this part out and keep your thread less complex :wink:

[Uula]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3rd: if your willling to allow me to throw a monkey wrench into your whole set up and methods to get rc lvls please add a post saying so otherwise ill just leave this part out and keep your thread less complex :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Go ahead. I want to hear your opinions, this ain't no guide or anything, just some calculations.

[ugafan_2009]

Good point...showing that nats seem to be the way to go. But this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FINAL CONCLUSION:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FFL is slower money, but great if you're after the levels past 91.

 

 

 

Nats are slower xp, but great if you're after the money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

is just common sense. :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good post though....will help if I ever go for 91 rc. :XD:

[Uula]

Good point...showing that nats seem to be the way to go. But this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FINAL CONCLUSION:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FFL is slower money, but great if you're after the levels past 91.

 

 

 

Nats are slower xp, but great if you're after the money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

is just common sense. :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good post though....will help if I ever go for 91 rc. :XD:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not all common sense, many people think that using FFL is better for both money and xp, they think it's so much faster you got lots of time to make the cash back.

[ugafan_2009]

 

Good point...showing that nats seem to be the way to go. But this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FINAL CONCLUSION:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FFL is slower money, but great if you're after the levels past 91.

 

 

 

Nats are slower xp, but great if you're after the money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

is just common sense. :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good post though....will help if I ever go for 91 rc. :XD:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not all common sense, many people think that using FFL is better for both money and xp, they think it's so much faster you got lots of time to make the cash back.

O lol...i see what you're saying now. #-o

[oreocookie987]

I think it basically comes down to if you're in it for the xp or for the $$$. Its an interesting topic nonetheless :

[xvillexvalox]

I'd say, laws until 91, after 91 you just can't pass up the profits from double nats...

 

 

 

=P~

[Uula]

I'd say, laws until 91, after 91 you just can't pass up the profits from double nats...

 

 

 

=P~

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But you will have 54m less than you started with when you get to 91. With nats you would be 104m plus at that point.

[m4tty]

add in the cost of super energies (for 2k ess at abyss/hr) and also theres the time of being interupted by pkers, too. also before 75 you cant do asmuch per hr at the abyss.

[Golvellius]

2,000 ess an hr? Thats way to generous on being able to do that.

 

 

 

Its nearly impossible.

 

 

 

I got big pouches, super energies, pick axe, and I did 1400-1500 in an hr one time.

 

 

 

My dude won't move any faster.

 

 

 

2,000 ess an hr isn't realistic.

 

 

 

Takes way more time.

 

 

 

Get like 12k xp an hr in rc soloing the abyss and you should be exstatic or you were making deaths. :mrgreen:

[Uula]

2,000 ess an hr? Thats way to generous on being able to do that.

 

 

 

Its nearly impossible.

 

 

 

I got big pouches, super energies, pick axe, and I did 1400-1500 in an hr one time.

 

 

 

My dude won't move any faster.

 

 

 

2,000 ess an hr isn't realistic.

 

 

 

Takes way more time.

 

 

 

Get like 12k xp an hr in rc soloing the abyss and you should be exstatic or you were making deaths. :mrgreen:

 

 

 

I did 2000+ in one hour exactly without super energies, after getting my giant pouch. Made 2340 once with super energies. Now averaging 2150 using super energy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I > you

 

 

 

(at rcing)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are my personal results. If you're slow at abyss crafting, you might be slow at FFL too, I don't know? :|

[m4tty]

2,000 ess an hr? Thats way to generous on being able to do that.

 

 

 

Its nearly impossible.

 

 

 

I got big pouches, super energies, pick axe, and I did 1400-1500 in an hr one time.

 

 

 

My dude won't move any faster.

 

 

 

2,000 ess an hr isn't realistic.

 

 

 

Takes way more time.

 

 

 

Get like 12k xp an hr in rc soloing the abyss and you should be exstatic or you were making deaths. :mrgreen:

 

 

 

NEVER stopping (just drinking super energy while running) and clicking the banker very fast 2k ess an hr is possible, but tru that its pushing it.

[Uula]

I can easily make 2.2k in an hour, and average 2.1k+ fore over 3 hours straight. Very focused

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pkers dont do that much; I just tele to Lletya, use my glory to tele to edge, eat some, and continue rcing.

[Ddrmaster7]

Good calculations. I could go straight to 91 with laws...but it gets way too boring. So I'm probably gonna craft through the abyss (or possibly alternate between the two methods). Where was I when you guys had this discussion in IRC? Lol.

[swampjedi]

The calculations are a bit more complex. Look at time overall.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's just say there are 100 hours difference. This means you get to 91 100 hours sooner. If you make 4k natures per hour at 91 (very possible), then you can make 400k natures in 100 hours. At ~200 profit per, this is 80 million worth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, the total you really should be looking at is closer to 80 million - or half as bad as you make it out to be.

[Freshwacka]

1) Once you get 91 rc, you don't need to ever set foot in FFL again. You can gives runners double natures for their essence. Faster experience than FFL, and you don't lose money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now calculate the time taken to get 91 via abyss VS Time taken to get 91 via FFL, then crafting double natures until the person with abyss gets 91. Pretty sure you're up in money, and experience.

[swampjedi]

See my post, last on the first page. You're still down cash, but only half as much.

[Cdub]

Your calculations are a bit oversimplified Uular. Swamp showed the economic impact of FFL vs. Abyss well, and I'm sure many a RCer has gone through those same calculations. Starting from 75, I RC'd enough nats to buy 340k Pure Essence for FFL (which brought me from 75-83). After there, I was financially compensated for using FFL. All this RC'ing after 91 for me is just gravy.

[swampjedi]

Yeah, Tallest told me you did that. Awesome man. That's my plan, if I can ever stop hating RC. :D

[DRUMINATOR17]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3rd: if your willling to allow me to throw a monkey wrench into your whole set up and methods to get rc lvls please add a post saying so otherwise ill just leave this part out and keep your thread less complex :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Go ahead. I want to hear your opinions, this ain't no guide or anything, just some calculations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WELL....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

there is fast free laws of course which get you to 91 rc the fastest biggest money loss

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and there is the "profit" runs doing trips yourself...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1st method is a huge drain on your pocket and the second makes you just about a bijillionaire

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

however there is a slightly slower method then ffl yet at the right times of the day faster exp then "profit" runs...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

surely someone here knows what im talking about with world 16 airs :pray:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

anyways thats a f2p world and basically you pay runners 2k for there unnoted ess from there you craft into air runes which can be sold for 15 to 20 gp each on the forums

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

with this method its basically breaking even, depending on your rcing lvl and the price you pay for rune ess

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you make multiple airs based on your lvls as follows:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lvl 11 x 2, lvl 22 x 3, lvl 33 x 4, lvl 44 x 5, lvl 55 x 6, lvl 66 x 7, lvl 77 x 8, lvl 88 x 9, and lvl 99 x 10

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so ya...that was alot of rambling on again...so if you want to do the calculations and money loss with all that in mind lol knock yourself out and add it too your thread :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

rune ess is usually anywhere from 20 to 40gp each, airs sell anywhere from 10 to 20 gp each, and air runes give 5 exp per ess...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

have fun calculating if you decide to add it in :XD: