You post this. A party hat is technicly worth nothing. Can it be sold for millions of GP? Yes. But does it actualy have that value? No!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One definition of value is "what someone will pay for it." Do you propose another definition for virtual economies?

You are posting your rant because you,yourself can't afford a rare. Rares are what drive players to do skills,pk,monster hunt and barrows. Without the party hats,masks,santas,and the rest of them, I wouldn't really play. My goal in long term is for a white party hat,so what if the item is worth 0 to 1 gp in stores. Its the value of rarity of the item. Look at it this way, we will compare a party hat with a hot rod. You buy a hotrod on ebay,or where ever, and you restore it to original condition. Over many years,this car has grown in value,in rarity. The party hat is the same,as are all rares.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

that ends my discussion.

 

 

 

~3d-over and out~

hah! You call people's theorys crackpots yet:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, I very much think they do have an equivalent to gp for all items, that is why removing the rares from the game will remove a large amount of gp, keep in mind that I am speculating as there is no right answer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You post this. A party hat is technicly worth nothing. Can it be sold for millions of GP? Yes. But does it actualy have that value? No!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If rares would be removed it would simply remove the item, not the cash. The only way to get a rare these days is from a player/player transaction, meaning that that gold for buying rares comes from elsewhere. All it would do is simply get rid of the supply but not the money people paid for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Honestly though, I would watch calling everyone else's theorys bull (pretty much) when you don't even have the basics down yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your hypocrisy amuses me, you question my knowledge and provide a completely wrong explanation, acctually you don't even provide an explaination as to why I am wrong...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Party hats have a value. Why? because there is supply of these party hats and demand for these party hats. It doesn't get much harder than that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only goods in an economy that do not have a price are those which are abundant, because everyone already has enough to satisfy their needs at any given time. This can change depending on many factors like location, but beware of a misconseption: respawning does not automatically make a good abundant, even if it has no end in sight because it still takes time to collect the good and thus not enough is collected to satisfy everyone's need at any given time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Any good that is not abundant is considered scarce because there isn't enough of it, and therefore by definition has a price. These are known as economic goods and they are traded on the basis of supply and demand. The only requirement for a good to be an economic good is the scarcity. This means that the shape of the good doesn't matter in any way. Party hats obviously fit in this category allong with every good in runescape

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will be very much interested to hear the explanation for your theory

You misunderstood me. You said that if they removed party hats then that would be like removing gold from the economy. From all technicality points that party hat is worth nothing. If you take it out of the game you are taking out 2gp (which is it's worth to the general store).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is there not to get? I never said that there is not a demand for it, of course there is and its value to players is in the millions. But its actual value, as in, the actual in game value is only 2gp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another example could be a rune platebody. It's only worth 22k something in a shop but to a player it is worth 50k. If they took a rune plate out of existance in the game the game would lose 22k or possible cash, not 50k because that 50k has to come from players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You guys both really misunderstand me. I said that it has a value to PLAYERS but for all purposes of the actual game its value is 2gp. Wow...

Oh, I agree with that, just wasn't sure where you were going.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your use of the word "technically" doesn't mean anything, because "technically" my definition of value is just as valid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Speaking not as a mod, but as a forum user, the attitude in your post leaves much to be desired. Misunderstandings happen, and it isn't like we are stupid or maliciously trying to frustrate you.

Oh, I agree with that, just wasn't sure where you were going.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your use of the word "technically" doesn't mean anything, because "technically" my definition of value is just as valid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Speaking not as a mod, but as a forum user, the attitude in your post leaves much to be desired. Misunderstandings happen, and it isn't like we are stupid or maliciously trying to frustrate you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats why I said "you missunderstood me"...

Seems like you are missunderstanding, the market doesn't judge by the techincal price, it judges by the economic price. We are talking about th market and so obviously we are using the economic price. The "official price" or price for which it is sold in the general store doesn't account for anything in this case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just because a game show's a certain value doesn't mean that it is the correct value. It would be great to just call the whole thing off as my missunderstanding but this isn't quite the case. You claim that the value of a certain item is desided by a completely outdated price. Sure, it use to by 2 gp but guess what, prices change over time and 2 gp is NOT the price anymore. When we consider the true price of the item, we are talking about the price where the supply meets the demand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why does this matter? well going back to what you said before

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you take it out of the game you are taking out 2gp (which is it's worth to the general store).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The market does not judge on technical points at all, therefore the 2 gp is completely irrelevant. If jagex changes the price in general stores to 5 mill for party hats it will not change a single thing. That price is completely irrelevant (unless of course it was more than the market, which it never is). The value of an item is the value for which it can be bought or sold in an economy. Nobody can buy a party hat for 2 gp and obviously it's not the economic price. Party hats are worth millions upon millions because people are willing to pay that much. This is their price.

sigh..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, I very much think they do have an equivalent to gp for all items, that is why removing the rares from the game will remove a large amount of gp, keep in mind that I am speculating as there is no right answer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You said that. You clearly said yourself that if you remove the rares from the game you are removing a large ammount of gold from the game as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is not true and this is what I keep repeating.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Listen to me carefully now, ok? Lets say that bob has a party hat that Joe wants. Joe decides he will buy the hat for 50 million GP, and thus a transfer of 50 million GP (the hats market worth) is transfered over to bob for the said hat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now lets say the next day Jagex decides to take out rares. Joe gets his hat taken away. However, the money Joe paid for the hat is still there and sitting in bob's pocket.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since we can easily asume you do not buy party hats from a shop there MUST be a player to player transaction done these days. When party hats entered the game they were items on the ground, you did not pay gold for them unless you wanted the item from another player.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is what I am saying. The hats themself are worth millions on the market. However, for all purposes of in game when we talk about "removing party hats removes GP from the game" that is simply untrue. It removes an item, nothing more nothing less. The money said players paid for it are still in the circulation of the games economy, thus, nothing happens except players don't have anything to spend their money on = inflation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you get it now?

Solid, he's not saying that the value isn't gone, but just that the coinage isn't.

Gee striker, I was wondering how long it was gonna be before you'd pop in and spread your nonsense :P

 

 

 

Holiday items were meant for fun, people that exploit this and sell their holiday items for millions of gee pee's are as bad as the 9 year olds that curse you in lumbridge. They do not aid the Runescape economy, only the richest players can afford them, a minority in Runescape, i'd guess about 2% of the population of the game can afford a party hat, economically they benefit nobody.

 

 

 

Oh? Care to prove it? I've already explained countless times how rares slow down inflation, which is beneficial to just about everyone. How bout for once, just once, actually proving one of your points, or at the very least counterring someone else's, rather then just walking in, saying "rares r teh suk" and walking out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They have no benefits to your stats or account, why then do they represent the height of richness? Jagex are always bringing out shiney new armour so the argument that rich players have nothing to spend it on is wrong. There are new skills popping out every few monthes who needs a party hat? There are so many things money can be spent on in game...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who needs maxed skills or stats? Who needs armor or weapons? Who needs runescape at all? And since when do rares not benefit your account? Last I checked they're a great way to have your gp work for you. Name me any other item in the game that makes you as much money as a rare...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anybody that has put hundreds of hours into buying a useless item can leave this game for all I care, mainly for their stupidity really, a paper hat I mean really.

If you respond to one thing in this whole post (which I doubt because that would suggest that you actually have something to back up what you say) then respond to this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By what stretch of the mind is a paper hat in a video game any less valuable then a plate of armor? If runescape were to cease to exist today, would it really matter? Nothing in runescape is really, trueldy important, so why the hell do you think that the teeny little blips on a screen that you've worked to obtain are any better then the tiny blips on a screen that someone else has?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gah striker's gone and gotten himself under my skin *scratches madly*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and solidus:

 

 

 

1) If you don't understand the whole removing-rares-removes-no-gp concept, go back and re-read what I'd wrote with the whole 10gp 10item thing

 

 

 

2) It's quite obvious you're taking an economics class :mrgreen: Because no one who isn't would put such a long meaningless definition as the bulk of their post :P

 

 

 

3) There is no 3, I wanted there to be a 3, because it would have given my post a little more meaning, rather then me arguing with a brick wall (and I'm sure some of you will get that while the bulk do not, if you're one of the people who do you may officially consider yourself one of the "Old rants crew" [ I think it was wolfboy who'd labelled us like that] )

sigh..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, I very much think they do have an equivalent to gp for all items, that is why removing the rares from the game will remove a large amount of gp, keep in mind that I am speculating as there is no right answer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You said that. You clearly said yourself that if you remove the rares from the game you are removing a large ammount of gold from the game as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is not true and this is what I keep repeating.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Listen to me carefully now, ok? Lets say that bob has a party hat that Joe wants. Joe decides he will buy the hat for 50 million GP, and thus a transfer of 50 million GP (the hats market worth) is transfered over to bob for the said hat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now lets say the next day Jagex decides to take out rares. Joe gets his hat taken away. However, the money Joe paid for the hat is still there and sitting in bob's pocket.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since we can easily asume you do not buy party hats from a shop there MUST be a player to player transaction done these days. When party hats entered the game they were items on the ground, you did not pay gold for them unless you wanted the item from another player.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is what I am saying. The hats themself are worth millions on the market. However, for all purposes of in game when we talk about "removing party hats removes GP from the game" that is simply untrue. It removes an item, nothing more nothing less. The money said players paid for it are still in the circulation of the games economy, thus, nothing happens except players don't have anything to spend their money on = inflation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you get it now?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although it is true that not a single gp is being removed from the game, the value of the money itself is being affected. The party hat is being removed, but not the money that would have been payed if it was sold is still there. The money's value has decreased. Does that clear things up? what you had said in the beginning was a bit different, I thought you ment that removing it would remove the general store value but what you meant was that no money is being removed I think. Looking back at that first thing I said it, it was wrong.

The future of rare's is actually quite simple to predict, there are 2 possible scenario's:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1: they will keep getting rarer untill nobody wants to sell them anymore, or at ridiculus prices like 2bil+

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2: somebody finds a way to dupe again and the prices of rare's drop back to 100k

I believe that jagex shouldn't, rares are an item that if you're really rich you can work for, without rares we'd be looking at a chain as the most expensive item which many people would not be satisfied with. I'd see a point if you said they shouldn't be tradable as they would become what jagex first wanted them to be - a fun item to wear. not the insane prices that most hold.

OK, let's say you worked for months and finally had the money for a Halloween Mask. You walk around, everyone is impressed, you feel great. The next day, Jagex removes rares. You find yourself without a large portion of your money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's dozens of other people who would lose almost everything if rares were removed. The rares should stay.

That would cause mass destruction of the runescape economy. No item except rares are worth over 50Mil and everyone who is saving up for one would have a ton of money left over.

 

 

 

A pro to this is that people would work on skills and the price of lots of stuff would either raise or fall

i think its nice to keep things like this because it bring back memories to some players and stuff like that. Also, the rares have a nice look to them so, i suggest you don't mess with them. You will end up getting flamed... :-X

I have been thinking. Should they take off the RSC holiday items? I mean not everyone has a party hat. And what the heck wrong with people selling a stupid easter egg for 2 mil? Its just some cruddy imtes that heals 2 hp. Selling these items a high prices is exactly what were doing in real life. Were even commercializing the holidays in MMOs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree because I think that the reason why we buy rares is the same way that some people buy antique lamps or rugs or any other antique.The partyhats and easter eggs and any other rare are special, they will never be created again.So ya people want to show their wealth and that they worked hard(I hope they did).

i think that they should either...

 

 

 

a) make all holiday/rares tradeable

 

B) make them all untradeable

 

 

 

 

 

by getting rid of them people will complain and eventually there will be no rares and no holiday items left. rich people which brought party hats for wealth will have a wizards hat instead which doesnt seem the same.

 

 

 

KEEP HOLIDAY ITEMS UNTRADEABLE!!!!

i brought an easter egg but i ate it by accident

 

so much lost

 

so i say all eatable item taken off

Something must always be at the top of the economical food chain. IN RS ists rares, espcially phats; if they were to go drag chains would rise to take there place as the next rarest wearable tradable.

 

 

 

If you want to get rid of rares, go buy them and alch them; its just when you have your cursor over that rare for to aclh it; you will back away and keep the rare. Throw away 500 mil i don't think so? So don't ask jagex to bin everyone else 500 mil which they have worked HONESTLY for hours and hurs and hurs and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours on end to get (or maybe just got lucky =P~ ). n

 

 

 

I don't own a rare yet. but am hoping ton purchase one within 2007. If rares were there and i already have a d chain...what would i spend 300 mil on?

 

 

 

Well ok, skills.

 

But after that-nothing.

 

 

 

JUst look at rares as wearable, multiplying money. So unless you want to get rid of money...

 

 

 

NSome npeople will always have to be poor and others rich. We have all had equal oppurtunity.Some people have seized, some have not. Sieze the oppurtunity to get that rare instead of wasting your time asking for a flaming on some fanisite forums.

 

 

 

look at say the Oscar awards. you try your hardest for months and months/years at something (a film) and you may get a trphy materially worth about ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã100 for all thne fools gold in it and the silver plaque or whatever. Would you sell that trophy for ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã100? Afew million more like if anything.

 

 

 

OK a partyhat is a bunch of pixels, but avery rare accumulation of paper pixels. A Nuclear bomb is a bunch of atoms, but very rare and masterfully worked atoms. Prices dont depend on the material value of things ever. Look at half jugs of wine for example worth about 50gp maybe originally-same goes with antique tea pots of King Tarquin Example II of Lithuaneia. If you ask me i would pay milions ( if i had) for the last White Rhino head stuffed up on my wall.

 

Things can depend on their scarcity, the time spent getting them, opinions (such as what is considered fashionable or not), brand names etc...not just face value.

 

 

 

Rares are here to stay. And aslong as they are...So am I.

i brought an easter egg but i ate it by accident

 

so much lost

 

so i say all eatable item taken off

 

 

 

lol, what a tool. there's a reason that people keep the edible (not "eatable" as your post suggests) items noted. pumpkins and easter eggs can still be sold for a good 10M, removing them just because some idiot eats his is outrageous.

i brought an easter egg but i ate it by accident

 

so much lost

 

so i say all eatable item taken off

 

 

 

lol, what a tool. there's a reason that people keep the edible (not "eatable" as your post suggests) items noted. pumpkins and easter eggs can still be sold for a good 10M, removing them just because some idiot eats his is outrageous.

 

 

 

flameing him for no reason like that was mean :shame:

 

 

 

ot:

 

why do ppl think they should be taken off they have a place in the econmy as much as the next item leave them as they are

I do not think the items should be removed. They are still part of the game, although mostly as overpriced symbols of wealth...

Although these items are over priced, thats just the way the market goes and the owners have every right to raise the price of holiday items. In real life do you go and destroy artifacts just because they are too expensive for the general population to own?

 

 

 

Anyway, these items are now a symbol and if JaGeX did remove them many people would quit, costing the game money and most likely cause it to go down hill...

I have thought of this many times. The only way jagex could do this would give a notice to everyone. That "all rares must be traded into jagex for xxx price" which would probably be up a month till the rest are destroyed. (would probably offer like 200% more than the market was currently selling). It would make the merchants/investers angry, but atleast it wouldn't have been like jagex stealing it. (And I in no way would support/agree with the idea because it would cause too much upset with the market.