Abortion Opinions (no flaming)

[Katryna]

I find it interesting that on the one hand so many people feel that the right of the baby comes before the rights of the woman but will still say that if the baby is cause by rape or incest or threatens the life of the woman then it is okay to terminate.

 

 

 

If abortion is wrong and every baby has the right to be born regardless of the rights of the woman then why make any exceptions?

[Barihawk]

I find it interesting that on the one hand so many people feel that the right of the baby comes before the rights of the woman but will still say that if the baby is cause by * or incest or threatens the life of the woman then it is okay to terminate.

 

 

 

If abortion is wrong and every baby has the right to be born regardless of the rights of the woman then why make any exceptions?

 

 

 

I will explain that, since I am one of those people.

 

 

 

If both partners consent to have sex, they should both be willing to deal with the repercussions of thier actions. In this case, I believe abortion is wrong.

 

 

 

In cases of rape or incest, the woman did not make the decision to engage in sexual intercourse. Therefore, she should have the choice whether to keep the child or terminate her pregnancy.

[dwarfie76]

In cases of * or incest, the woman did not make the decision to engage in sexual intercourse. Therefore, she should have the choice whether to keep the child or terminate her pregnancy.

 

 

 

Why, it's not the baby's fault that it's father is a rapist. Why should the poor unborn child suffer for the actions of it's father?

[Katryna]

I find it interesting that on the one hand so many people feel that the right of the baby comes before the rights of the woman but will still say that if the baby is cause by * or incest or threatens the life of the woman then it is okay to terminate.

 

 

 

If abortion is wrong and every baby has the right to be born regardless of the rights of the woman then why make any exceptions?

 

 

 

I will explain that, since I am one of those people.

 

 

 

If both partners consent to have sex, they should both be willing to deal with the repercussions of thier actions. In this case, I believe abortion is wrong.

 

 

 

In cases of * or incest, the woman did not make the decision to engage in sexual intercourse. Therefore, she should have the choice whether to keep the child or terminate her pregnancy.

 

 

 

So then it is about punishment for deciding to have sex rather then the rights of the baby?

[MyPurpleCrayon]

Lol, he's not required to post anything in his defence. The aspects of this are pure and simple. Abortion is wrong. Don't try to overcomplicate things.

 

 

 

If you're not willing (or able?) to back up your morals, then you're always just going to come up against people that have different ones. "Abortion is right. Don't try to overcomplicate things. You're an idiot."

 

 

 

Actually, I think abortion is wrong. But I think that it's a rational position to take. One that can be justified.

 

 

 

Now I don't want to sound too hostile, but this topic isn't really about making a 'good' argument. It's about how you feel about abortion. Which he obviously thinks is wrong. It's not that hard to understand, and he doesn't really need a lesson on how to make a legit argument.

 

 

 

I too think that abortion is wrong. I also think that killing people is wrong, it could just be me.

[Barihawk]

In cases of * or incest, the woman did not make the decision to engage in sexual intercourse. Therefore, she should have the choice whether to keep the child or terminate her pregnancy.

 

 

 

Why, it's not the baby's fault that it's father is a rapist. Why should the poor unborn child suffer for the actions of it's father?

 

 

 

Good question. I just support the choice being there. Regardless, I would frown on any abortion.

[dusqi]

Lol, he's not required to post anything in his defence. The aspects of this are pure and simple. Abortion is wrong. Don't try to overcomplicate things.

 

 

 

If you're not willing (or able?) to back up your morals, then you're always just going to come up against people that have different ones. "Abortion is right. Don't try to overcomplicate things. You're an idiot."

 

 

 

Actually, I think abortion is wrong. But I think that it's a rational position to take. One that can be justified.

 

 

 

Now I don't want to sound too hostile, but this topic isn't really about making a 'good' argument. It's about how you feel about abortion. Which he obviously thinks is wrong. It's not that hard to understand, and he doesn't really need a lesson on how to make a legit argument.

 

 

 

I too think that abortion is wrong. I also think that killing people is wrong, it could just be me.

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, then he can post something like "I don't know why, but deep down I just feel that abortion is wrong". That suggests that his view is personal, rather than "the aspects of this are pure and simple." As if everyone should be able to understand it.

 

 

 

And then, he can't go on to insult people that have other opinions, because that's just flaming unless he has some decent supporting reason for disagreeing with a position:

 

 

 

 

I believe it's wrong, but the idiots of my society aren't going to change.

 

 

 

 

Also, thanks for saying "it's not that hard to understand". I don't believe I gave any impression that I did not understand his post. I just thought that it was badly expressed, and given the lack of reasoning behind it, where a personal opinion was generalised to apply to everyone, it was insulting.

 

 

 

In short: I don't mind if someone expresses a personal opinion, but don't generalise it to say that everyone else is wrong, without at least putting some reasoning behind it.

[Necromagus]

An interesting response to South Dakota's draconian anti-abortion law...

 

 

 

Local Sioux to South Dakota governor: Up yours.

ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅTo me, it is now a question of sovereignty,ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[Panix]

The choice to abort should be available to all. Denying that choice is forcing one's beliefs on another.

[insane]

The choice to abort should be available to all. Denying that choice is forcing one's beliefs on another.

 

 

 

Comments like this don't make any sense. I'm pretty sure that you would be in favour of us FORCING Hitler to stop killing Jews, right? Well, that's forcing our views on him. Forcing views on someone else is legit when their views are detrimental to society - and what this entire discussion is about is whether or not abortion is detrimental. Seems you missed that. Not to mention aborting a fetus is forcing your views on it.

[Katryna]

The choice to abort should be available to all. Denying that choice is forcing one's beliefs on another.

 

 

 

Comments like this don't make any sense. I'm pretty sure that you would be in favour of us FORCING Hitler to stop killing Jews, right? Well, that's forcing our views on him. Forcing views on someone else is legit when their views are detrimental to society - and what this entire discussion is about is whether or not abortion is detrimental. Seems you missed that. Not to mention aborting a fetus is forcing your views on it.

 

 

 

Calling a woman who doesn't want to have something growing inside of her a Hitler is pushing it way to far. The Jews did nothing to Hitlers body. There is nothing remotely similar between Hitler killing Jews and a woman having the right to her own body.

 

 

 

Lets get real about what being pregnant does. When I was pregnant I had no energy, my chest hurt, I had heart burn, my ankles got swollen, I got stretch marks, I throw up on a regular basics for what seemed like forever, I couldn't bend over to tie my shoes, I felt like my emotions were totally out of control, I couldn't sleep because of the kicking, in short I was miserable a lot of the time. I wanted a baby so I put up with it all but is it really fair that a woman has to go through all of that because of something she doesn't even want?

 

 

 

I some times think the real reason is people want abortion illegal is to punish woman for having sex.

[____]

I some times think the real reason is people want abortion illegal is to punish woman for having sex.

 

The sad thing is that there are a lot of people out there who actually have that motive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And have no guilt about it either.

[Guest GhostRanger]

The choice to abort should be available to all. Denying that choice is forcing one's beliefs on another.

 

 

 

Comments like this don't make any sense. I'm pretty sure that you would be in favour of us FORCING Hitler to stop killing Jews, right? Well, that's forcing our views on him. Forcing views on someone else is legit when their views are detrimental to society - and what this entire discussion is about is whether or not abortion is detrimental. Seems you missed that. Not to mention aborting a fetus is forcing your views on it.

 

 

 

Calling a woman who doesn't want to have something growing inside of her a Hitler is pushing it way to far. The Jews did nothing to Hitlers body. There is nothing remotely similar between Hitler killing Jews and a woman having the right to her own body.

 

 

 

Lets get real about what being pregnant does. When I was pregnant I had no energy, my chest hurt, I had heart burn, my ankles got swollen, I got stretch marks, I throw up on a regular basics for what seemed like forever, I couldn't bend over to tie my shoes, I felt like my emotions were totally out of control, I couldn't sleep because of the kicking, in short I was miserable a lot of the time. I wanted a baby so I put up with it all but is it really fair that a woman has to go through all of that because of something she doesn't even want?

 

 

 

I some times think the real reason is people want abortion illegal is to punish woman for having sex.

 

 

 

Your and Panix's point is that we shouldn't be denying women the choice about whether or not to keep their baby. Fair enough. When a woman gets pregnant then, if the man wants to abort the baby and the woman decides she wants to keep it, the man should be exempt from paying child support. You agree, right? The man should have a choice about whether or not he wants the baby, and since he can't kill it, he should be financially independant from the baby's life. Seriously, making a father pay child support is punishing HIM for having sex. How unfair is that?

 

 

 

Let's fight for equality and give BOTH genders a choice in this matter for once.

 

 

 

REAL LIFE STATISTIC:

 

 

 

Abortions are currently legal under Roe v Wade in all 50 states. Fathers of unwanted children currently have to pay child support in all 50 states.

 

 

 

We must end the injustice!

[insane]

Calling a woman who doesn't want to have something growing inside of her a Hitler is pushing it way to far. The Jews did nothing to Hitlers body. There is nothing remotely similar between Hitler killing Jews and a woman having the right to her own body.

 

 

 

I wasn't saying that a woman was Hitler, I just said that there are exceptions to forcing views on people being seen as purely bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I some times think the real reason is people want abortion illegal is to punish woman for having sex.

 

 

 

Would you please stop discretely calling me a sexist? You interpret anything about women said by men to be a sexist comment. It's "political correctness" like this that just pisses me right off. Could you please stop forcing your feminist opinions on me in the form of insults?

 

 

 

Why not attack my argument instead of making up a character trait about me that doesn't actually exist? This is what you are doing.

[Katryna]

A fetus is just a parasite that grows inside a woman until it can survive outside and at that point becomes a baby. There is no reason that anyone should interfere with a womans right to seek medical help to remove a parasite from her body.

 

 

 

No human should ever be forced to maintain a parasite within their body for any reason.

 

 

 

A fetus is nothing but a parasite by definition. Biology. An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

 

 

 

No way should that ever be a law saying that any human should have to maintain a parasite.

[rocketman089]

No way should that ever be a law saying that any human should have to maintain a parasite.

 

 

 

Gaah, reading that just made me wanna punch someone in the face. I mean, i'm pretty much indifferent to the issue until I have to deal with it, and I think it's really something governed by circumstance, but a parasite? No, that's just sick.

 

 

 

I mean, there are grey areas to certain things, especially when it deals with something as controversial as human life. Comparing a human fetus to a tick or tapeworm ? :?

[Necromagus]

As cold as it may sound, Katryna was 100% accurate on her definition of "parasite". In the end, a foetus is just that. It feeds off the mother without contributing anything in return.

[insane]

As cold as it may sound, Katryna was 100% accurate on her definition of "parasite". In the end, a foetus is just that. It feeds off the mother without contributing anything in return.

 

 

 

Yea but the thing is people just pull that definition out at leisure. When you want the fetus to be aborted, it's just a parasite. But when you do want it to be born, all of a sudden the word 'parasite' isn't brought up anymore. It's a double standard, not to mention a baby/child is so close to being a parasite themselves, or possibly even actually are parasites. The definition is a little vague.

 

 

 

 

 

No human should ever be forced to maintain a parasite within their body for any reason.

 

 

 

So one day before birth abortion is okay eh?

[Guest GhostRanger]

A fetus is just a parasite that grows inside a woman until it can survive outside and at that point becomes a baby. There is no reason that anyone should interfere with a womans right to seek medical help to remove a parasite from her body.

 

 

 

No human should ever be forced to maintain a parasite within their body for any reason.

 

 

 

A fetus is nothing but a parasite by definition. Biology. An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

 

 

 

No way should that ever be a law saying that any human should have to maintain a parasite.

 

 

 

And a human is 'just' a mammal. By definition of a mammal, that's what we are. Except that we choose to say that a human is more precious than just a mammal. There should be no difference in deciding that about a foetus.

 

 

 

I will reiterate insane's question: are you okay with aborting a "parasite" one day before its born?

[das]

Personally, im agaisnt Abortion, morally i do view it as murder, that being said. i have read both Katryna's and Insanes posts, both open minded. Im not joining the debate on whats right and wrong

 

But to Insane i must ask,

 

 

 

Yea but the thing is people just pull that definition out at leisure. When you want the fetus to be aborted, it's just a parasite. But when you do want it to be born, all of a sudden the word 'parasite' isn't brought up anymore. It's a double standard, not to mention a baby/child is so close to being a parasite themselves, or possibly even actually are parasites. The definition is a little vague.

 

 

 

Have you ever called a woman a sleezy name? i mean, men can sleep around with women and they are gods, women sleep around and even women trash talk them, where is the equality in that. Do you like being around women who sleep around with men? What about the miliatary, if every man in america got drafted into a world war, would you not feel angry no women were drafted?

 

 

 

Anyone on this board can discuss equal rights, or dual standards, but thats lame, Theres Advantages Females have Men do not, and advantages Men have females do not, but why dont we have debates on these topics? Perhaps because abortion is just being discussed here, but can you honestly bring Double standards into this arguement without opening about 10 other gender issues?

 

 

 

Personally a women carries the kid/baby/fetus/parasite, Although without the man's help, she cannot conceive, every man who decides to romp around in the bedroom should at least know- there is a chance a kid might pop up. That's one reason i feel if a man is mature enough to have sexual itnercourse, you should deal with the consiquences of a kid.

 

 

 

Im a guy, if i knocked up a girl tommorow, thats my fault for sleeping with her on some random fling.

 

 

 

The men may have to pay child support, but its a darn shame women are the ones who end up carrying the kid, and all men get is pure pleasure, so if a man gets a girl pregnat on a fling, thats is fault for having a one night stand. Period.

 

 

 

Last year in a neighboring County, a single mother had to drive over 45 minutes to do a job at a hospital, she was a Cna who made minimal wage, and the dad wasn't in the picture, the mother worked 16 hour shifts at minimium wage to make ends meet, one day she couldnt afford child care, so in ford explorer she folded down the seats and left the kid in the car, her supervisor wouldnt let her bring the kid in the hopsital, and the kid died of heat exhaustion.

 

Although what the lady did was stupid- you have to wonder...if the father was around would this happen?

 

 

 

So personally as a man, i feel its cheap for us as a gender to argue about equality, theres quite a few dead beat worthless males already..

 

 

 

That being said--if the women has to carry around the kid/parasite it should be her damn choice on what happens to it, its her body, Not the mans.

 

 

 

~DaS

 

 

 

If men as a whole showed some responsibilty, we wouldnt have Single Mom's in poverity for paying for childcare because the dad isnt around, I can think of a case last year in the news,

[Katryna]

"Fewer than 1% of abortions are performed after 20 weeks, and they are extremely rare after 26 weeks of pregnancy" [ibid]. Typically abortions provided in the third trimester are limited to cases of severe fetal abnormalities.

 

Arguing about having an abortion one day before birth is a red herring, it just doesn't happen and is being stated just to get an emotional response.

 

 

 

Calling a fetus a parasite is no different then calling it a baby. Reality is to a woman who wants it then it is her baby but to a woman who has no desire to have it then it is a parasite. Using baby is just a way to get a emotional reaction it isn't a reality and on a scientific level it really is more parasite then baby.

 

 

 

Now a baby or a child isn't a parasite because it isn't living in or on anyone. Anyone who wants to can take care of it not just one person who feeds it off of her own body.

[Guest GhostRanger]

"Fewer than 1% of abortions are performed after 20 weeks, and they are extremely rare after 26 weeks of pregnancy" [ibid]. Typically abortions provided in the third trimester are limited to cases of severe fetal abnormalities.

 

Arguing about having an abortion one day before birth is a red herring, it just doesn't happen and is being stated just to get an emotional response.

 

 

 

Calling a fetus a parasite is no different then calling it a baby. Reality is to a woman who wants it then it is her baby but to a woman who has no desire to have it then it is a parasite. Using baby is just a way to get a emotional reaction it isn't a reality and on a scientific level it really is more parasite then baby.

 

 

 

Now a baby or a child isn't a parasite because it isn't living in or on anyone. Anyone who wants to can take care of it not just one person who feeds it off of her own body.

 

 

 

Your argument doesn't work because its works both ways. Calling it a parasite is nothing but using the word to kill emotional reactions. For people who think its murder - it is an emotional matter to them and so by calling it a parasite you are trying to make it look less emotional.

 

 

 

Going by your logic...to someone who wants to murder a man is just a mammal. To someone who thinks that human life is sacred, a man is a human being. They are really the same thing, it just depends on if you have an emotional attachment to human life.

[insane]

Your argument doesn't work because its works both ways. Calling it a parasite is nothing but using the word to kill emotional reactions. For people who think its murder - it is an emotional matter to them and so by calling it a parasite you are trying to make it look less emotional.

 

 

 

Going by your logic...to someone who wants to murder a man is just a mammal. To someone who thinks that human life is sacred, a man is a human being. They are really the same thing, it just depends on if you have an emotional attachment to human life.

 

 

 

Thanks, that's what I meant to say, I just couldn't think of an analogy (your man/mammal one worked perfect)

 

 

 

 

 

Have you ever called a woman a sleezy name? i mean, men can sleep around with women and they are gods, women sleep around and even women trash talk them, where is the equality in that. Do you like being around women who sleep around with men?

 

 

 

Personally? In all honesty, you can choose to believe this or not, but I don't think I have ever called a woman a sleezy name. I have absolutely no respect for men that sleep around, and I have absolutely no respect for women that sleep around. I personally believe sex is a gift to be enjoyed within the context of marriage and that's it. However, as my personal opinion isn't worth a pig's tail here I usually keep it professional.

[das]

 

Personally? In all honesty, you can choose to believe this or not, but I don't think I have ever called a woman a sleezy name. I have absolutely no respect for men that sleep around, and I have absolutely no respect for women that sleep around. I personally believe sex is a gift to be enjoyed within the context of marriage and that's it. However, as my personal opinion isn't worth a pig's tail here I usually keep it professional.

 

 

 

Just trying to keep dual standards out of this argument, cause its kinda bs to me to throw them in.

 

 

 

never said you were not professional, but it has been an interesting read, so keep it up

 

 

 

*Goes back to lurking*

 

 

 

~DaS

[Katryna]

We still keep coming back to the rights of a woman to her own life and body. During pregnancy she can't drink, smoke, take some over the counter drugs. She has to give up activities that she may want to do while the fetus develops. She is uncomfortable and feels ill at times.

 

 

 

Does a fetus really have more rights then the woman who is carrying it?

 

 

 

As for calling a man a mammal in order to kill him it would be okay if he was breaking into your house. Kind of like a fetus breaks into a womans body.

 

 

 

A man breaks into your house because he is hungry you can chose to kill him, have him removed by the police or feed him.