Is luring an acceptable practice?

[aaron1120]

Deception is ALSO a form of scamming. As I have explained, Deception is a form of trickery..trickery to get profit or personal gain. And, TRICKERY involves, in this case, tricking someone into going into a dangerous area.

 

 

 

The thing is though, that it is not a form of deception. You have a warning screen pop-up in your face saying that you are nearing the wilderness, and then usually, the person that is luring you is a few combat levels higher/lower than you. This means that you will have to make it a few levels deeper into the wilderness than just Level One. Oh I forgot, there are signs with sculls on them that say "DANGER" when you approach Level One wilderness just incase you missed the pop-up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With all of these warning signs that Jagex provides for us, people who fall for getting lured into the wilderness either deserve what they had coming, or need to be taught a lesson on thinking logically.

[Ginger_Warrior]

As far as I'm concerned, it's a threat to a player's security. IT's also trading under false pretenses, which in my opinion would constitute as scamming. So, in my opinion luring is completely wrong. If players want to gain items through cambat, they can do so at the duel arena and prove their prowess. But luring is a very pathetic way fo earning quick, dirty money at someone else's expense, and oughta be frowned upon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also think people treat the issue of luring as though it's the other players fault for their own incompetence. This is wrong. If a women gets mugged in the street, do we blame it on her own incompetence, saying that the police warned her first? No, of course not. And although hey are completely different scenarios, the wole point of morals is stil there. We wouldn't blame the women for being mugged - why blame the innocent player who lagged, or the inexperienced player who doesn't know better, for getting lured?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the wilderness waning... if you've been to the wildy once before in that log-in session, it doesn't pop up again. So no warning.

[Ginger_Warrior]

^ Well that maybe very amusing for you, but show a little empathy? Can you imagine the effects it has on the player? They may decide to give up RS completely. Think about the negative impact that would have on the RS community as a whole - players turned away through a few people, who don't feel confident to go to the duel arena, so prey on the vulnurable instead?

[anonimu]

I haven't played RS in 3 months and I've never scammed/lured/anything else...

 

 

 

If someone is stupid enough to fall for a lure they deserve to lose their stuff...

[qeltar]

 

 

 

If someone is stupid enough to fall for a lure they deserve to lose their stuff...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, well that applies to all scams. I guess Jagex should legalize them all?

[Ginger_Warrior]

^ Agreed. Because after all, that granny that was stupid enough to let the innocent-looking plumber into her house for a 'check-up' deserved to have her pension stolen... :-s

[Maddra]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

who hasnt cheated on a test before. i know i have. i know almost every single one of my teachers has. and i also know my parents has.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You cheat, and by your words your parents cheat. It is still wrong. And I pity you, because it is obvious you do not see that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just because someone you know, breaks the rules.. it does not make it right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just because everyone around you may cheat.. it does not make it right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are ultimately responsible for your own actions. Using the lame excuse, 'my parents did it too' to assuage your conscious - doesnt make it right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can justify until you are blue in the face. It is still wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It doesnt matter that Jagex has not actually 'spelled it out'. It is implied. It is what is commonly referred to as "the Intent and Spirit of the rule". And typically it expected that the 'population' will self-rule themsselves in what is right and what is wrong without government stepping in and spelling it all out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Jagex ever cracks down on it.. a lot of other freedoms in the games that are not cheating will be gone as well.. all because a tiny portion of the players, exploit others by luring them.

[aaron1120]

It doesnt matter that Jagex has not actually 'spelled it out'. It is implied. It is what is commonly referred to as "the Intent and Spirit of the rule". And typically it expected that the 'population' will self-rule themselves in what is right and what is wrong without government stepping in and spelling it all out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Jagex ever cracks down on it.. a lot of other freedoms in the games that are not cheating will be gone as well.. all because a tiny portion of the players, exploit others by luring them.

 

 

 

Your right, it is expected that a population can rule themselves for what is right from wrong. You need to face it though, no population is perfect. No population is entirely made up of people who want to do things for the good of others, instead of doing everything for themselves. It can't happen. Even if Jagex does spell out that "luring isn't acceptable", do you think that the people who already practice it will stop? No they won't. And when large amounts of people break the rules at the same time (there are large amounts of lurers) Jagex does what they always do and steps down. Jagex knows if they implement a rule that will stop luring, there will be riots, spam on the official forums, large amounts of people quitting, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex has been making a lot of mistakes lately. They are trying to do what is impossible, make the game/community perfect. Their mistakes are costing them valuable paying members.

[Maddra]

Even if Jagex does spell out that "luring isn't acceptable", do you think that the people who already practice it will stop? No they won't. And when large amounts of people break the rules at the same time (there are large amounts of lurers) Jagex does what they always do and steps down. Jagex knows if they implement a rule that will stop luring, there will be riots, spam on the official forums, large amounts of people quitting, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex has been making a lot of mistakes lately. They are trying to do what is impossible, make the game/community perfect. Their mistakes are costing them valuable paying members.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree, I am not saying I want Jagex to step in. Because I realize that the more 'rules' are in place - the harder it is to enjoy the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just find it a shame that, the small number of lurers (small compared to the majority of players that do not lure) will cause exactly what you described.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lurers typically do not play to have fun. Lurers play as a form of power. They do not care if they ruin the game for others, as long as they can weild power over another. They do not care that they will ultimate bring the downfall of the whole game about - as long as they can get their power high now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I think there is a really simple solution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Make some worlds without wildy; and some with wildy. That way all the power trippers will stay on the worlds with wildy and leave those of us who prefer to play to have fun, alone.

[aaron1120]

Lurers typically do not play to have fun. Lurers play as a form of power. They do not care if they ruin the game for others, as long as they can weild power over another. They do not care that they will ultimate bring the downfall of the whole game about - as long as they can get their power high now.

 

 

 

Whoah! Downfall of the whole game? Now that's a little extreme...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The fact is they don't have power over everyone. They may have an advantage in the wilderness, but as I have said in the past, it is the fault of the user going into the wilderness.

 

 

 

The thing is though, that it is not a form of deception. You have a warning screen pop-up in your face saying that you are nearing the wilderness, and then usually, the person that is luring you is a few combat levels higher/lower than you. This means that you will have to make it a few levels deeper into the wilderness than just Level One. Oh I forgot, there are signs with sculls on them that say "DANGER" when you approach Level One wilderness just incase you missed the pop-up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With all of these warning signs that Jagex provides for us, people who fall for getting lured into the wilderness either deserve what they had coming, or need to be taught a lesson on thinking logically

 

 

 

Now I'm not saying that Jagex can't do anything else about this problem... Actually I would be happy if they could do more. I would suggest that they include in their area about safety of accounts, the fact that people, within the rules can lure you into the wilderness, and include steps you could take to prevent this from happening.

[squirrleeman]

Rule 2 - Item Scamming

 

 

 

Effective date: 16th January 2007

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You must not scam or deceive other players. Lying to other players for your own personal gain is not in the spirit of the game

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So... Saying that you are selling something a a real good price with no intention of actually selling it...the real intention is to kill another player for the GP they intended to buy said item.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is not in the "spirit" of that game as far as I'm concerned. If it's not in the spirit of the game it should be a bannable offense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Item switching is NOT in the "spirit" of the game but you can't report a scammer unless you let them scam you......an attempted scam that fails is NOT reportable. their own rules are so lame they fail to even deter Scammers so why not give them a legal way to scam. While they are at it give Thieving EXP too!!

[LeggoMyEggo]

In some way I think it is acceptable and unacceptable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Acceptable

 

 

 

1. It is not in the RS Rules.

 

 

 

2. If your lucky to find someone to lure. (If you do get lured, "Learn from your mistakes and move on")

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unacceptable

 

 

 

1. Is a form of item scamming.

 

 

 

Just that all it takes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like someone said that all it takes is little brain power not to take anything exspensive into the wild unless your willing to lose it.

[aquariusman]

IMO, most lurers will lure for the discontinued items that are worth millions of gp to players, yet only a couple gp to a general store. These items really should be considered priceless, yet if you have different items that are priceless, then they have comparable values, which means a phat is worth more than an easter egg, a certain colour item is worth more than another, and these comparable prices are updated a few weeks/months after the item has changed market value. This however will certainly jack up the prices of these rares, a major downside IMO compared to the amount of people lured for rares. Actual gp should not have an individual value at death, but a total value, so that if you're most vaulable three items total 1.5mil and you're carrying 5mil of gp, you keep only the 5mil. This will also work if someone is supposedly selling you something for 3mil and the item is really worth 5mil.

[Maddra]

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Whoah! Downfall of the whole game? Now that's a little extreme...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Downfall -yes.. it is a slippery slope.. the downfall must start somewhere.. it is the catalyst that will culminate in the "change" aka downfall, of what RS is now. Once it changes - it can never go back. So yes.. downfall.

[monkeyboo2]

 

]

 

 

 

Whoah! Downfall of the whole game? Now that's a little extreme...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Downfall -yes.. it is a slippery slope.. the downfall must start somewhere.. it is the catalyst that will culminate in the "change" aka downfall, of what RS is now. Once it changes - it can never go back. So yes.. downfall.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Technically all downfalls start when things begin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everything that begins must end.

[moonman190]

erkid"]

 

Define luring, if you would?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tricking players too trade people in the wilderness while somebody else kills them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds bannable to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To draw to the lure; hence, to allure or invite by means of anything that promises pleasure or advantage; to entice; to attract.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dictionary.net

[Maddra]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Technically all downfalls start when things begin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everything that begins must end.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Point taken, and thus I shall amend my statement to the fact that Lurers hasten the downfall dramatically.

[aaron1120]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Technically all downfalls start when things begin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everything that begins must end.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Point taken, and thus I shall amend my statement to the fact that Lurers hasten the downfall dramatically.

 

 

 

Runescape would end at somepoint, lurers or not. All you are saying is that anything that starts will end, and thats correct. The day Runescape came out, it has just been on a long ride down a mountain, and someday, it will come to a complete stop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll tell you what will bring on the downfall of the game quickly, Jagex not listening to the community.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, I don't believe luring effects the game too much. I mean, it doesn't take items out of the game. A few players here and there may quit, but big deal! Hundreds of people will take their place. Sure it isn't morally right, but Jagex doesn't care, and neither should we. Like I have said, people will do bad things for their own gain, in real life, and in this game, outlawing luring will not stop bad people. What will stop luring is people getting aware of the problem, and learning about how to stop it from happening to them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only way lurers will stop luring, will be for people to stop letting themselves get lured.

[Lythiaren]

Addressing the 'it's just pixels' argument:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Odd. Last time I checked, my body was composed of fleshy chemical matter, not pixels. The character that a lurer clicks to kill is comprised of pixels, but there is a person behind them. I'm sure you would say "It's just pixels" to someone upset that they had just been hacked, but you know what? I'm 90% sure that you would be upset if you were hacked, too*. If you lost everything you had, you would probably be upset. If you lure, you're doing that to another person. A human being behind the pixels you see on your computer screen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That person could be tough enough to go "BAH I did something stupid, I let him kill me." and never let it happen again, or they could be sentimental enough to think "THAT GUY JUST TOOK ALL MY HARD WORK!" and be so discouraged that they just up and leave, or they could be anywhere in between.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The fact still stands that you took their stuff that they worked hard to get, and that you got it in a dishonorable and dishonest way. Don't you feel bad doing it, at least the first time? =\

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Computer security and all that aside; if someone has the skills and determination to do so, any system can be cracked and hacked, because systems are made by people, and people can't see every possible loophole at first glance, nor can they predict every possible glitch or bug that could occur.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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And addressing a point that seems to have been overlooked:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Saying that it's the victim's fault and that they need to take responsibility for what happens, is a very biased view... The victim often has no idea what's going on until they find themselves under attack in the wild (or perhaps a brief moment before). The lurer, however, is completely aware of what's happening the entire time. They are not exempt. If the victim is to be made to take responsibility for the incident, so too must the lurer that orchestrates it. Perhaps moreso than the victim; the part of the lurer is so much greater in the situation than that of the unwitting victim, who is usually just a very excited person who wants to grab the good deal before it's gone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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And for the record: never lured, never will, never been lured, never will be; I avoid the high-risk areas unless absolutely necessary, and if I do go in it's with minimal stuff. I also walk the wildy border often with no items to make sure I know where the border is. This does not mean anyone else does so; I'm just crazy. Just remember: common sense isn't as common as you think, and it's very often incorrect when it's present.

[highlanders]

It could be considered as scamming in Rs rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And morally, it's wrong. Exactly the same as stealing something from someone in a dishonest way, it's wrong.

[aaron1120]

It could be considered as scamming in Rs rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And morally, it's wrong. Exactly the same as stealing something from someone in a dishonest way, it's wrong.

 

 

 

Would you care to elaborate? How do you think it is scamming in accordance with RS Rules. Please prove to me how you see this. I'm not saying I'm for people that lure, I'm just saying it isn't/shouldn't be against any rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, morally it is wrong, but by whose standards. Moral standards is a broad term because many people look at it differently. Yes it is a dishonest way to take something, but people still do it. Heck, the government even does it.

[highlanders]

Scamming is against the rules. If someone pms you saying something like "I will buy your [item], come join me at the north of edge" then you could report the person for scamming, since it's obviously a lure attempt. And if the person reading the report abuse is not a trained monkey, he might notice that is it a lure attempt and do something against the luring player.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I'm tired of people saying that morals are relative. It's just obviously morally wrong. :roll: The people who do it know it's wrong, they just do it because they're greedy, etc.

[aaron1120]

Scamming is against the rules. If someone pms you saying something like "I will buy your [item], come join me at the north of edge" then you could report the person for scamming, since it's obviously a lure attempt. And if the person reading the report abuse is not a trained monkey, he might notice that is it a lure attempt and do something against the luring player.

 

 

 

I assume you are saying this is scamming on the grounds of deception...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well as I have said before:

 

 

 

The thing is though, that it is not a form of deception. You have a warning screen pop-up in your face saying that you are nearing the wilderness, and then usually, the person that is luring you is a few combat levels higher/lower than you. This means that you will have to make it a few levels deeper into the wilderness than just Level One. Oh I forgot, there are signs with sculls on them that say "DANGER" when you approach Level One wilderness just incase you missed the pop-up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With all of these warning signs that Jagex provides for us, people who fall for getting lured into the wilderness either deserve what they had coming, or need to be taught a lesson on thinking logically

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I forgot:

 

 

 

And I'm tired of people saying that morals are relative. It's just obviously morally wrong. :roll: The people who do it know it's wrong, they just do it because they're greedy, etc.

 

 

 

There are good people in this world, and there are bad people. My point is that Jagex should not try to make the game perfect by outlawing anything that could potentially take something away from them. Jagex is becoming to protective of the younger crowds, they are taking away the nice feeling from the game, and turning it into an overprotective game. I thought that Runescape was supposed to teach lessons? Well, they can't do that when they take out all of the untruthful parts of the game.

[darkmage099]

It could be considered as scamming in Rs rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And morally, it's wrong. Exactly the same as stealing something from someone in a dishonest way, it's wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. No it's not. It's not like they forced you to click the mouse. They just told you. The power of words and greed...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. How is it morally wrong if you give them your items/cash?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. Stealing usually involves physical force.

[Alg]

 

It could be considered as scamming in Rs rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And morally, it's wrong. Exactly the same as stealing something from someone in a dishonest way, it's wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. No it's not. It's not like they forced you to click the mouse. They just told you. The power of words and greed...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. How is it morally wrong if you give them your items/cash?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. Stealing usually involves physical force.

 

 

 

1. it is scamming, as they are using deceit to separate you from your items, as described in the rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. in most cases, you aren't willingly giving items.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. stealing can be as simple as pickpocketing a wallet, not that physical.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and as for the pixels argument, saying it's just pixels is for luring, there are people playing this game, not robots (well, mostly not robots)