Party Hats - The Only Tradeable Skillcape?

[Clown]

Actually, I smell something fishy here too :wink:

[Esper_Jones]

You are forgetting to factor in Opportunity Cost to your calculation. Sure, the material cost might only be 4 Mil, but the extra time used to burn Willows instead of Yews / Magics costs you in the long run.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

145,000 willows at 30 each is 4,350,000 gold.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2,900 willows, 4,700 yew, and 39,000 magics at your prices is around 40M gold. This comes out to 46,600 logs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Assuming each log takes the same amount of time to burn (It takes the same amount of time to light 27 willows as it does 27 magics), then it takes 3.11 times more time to burn the willows. So if a trip of logs takes 1 minute (Exact numbers don't matter.), then it would take about 3.11 trips to get the same amount of experience with willows as with higher logs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I have just said did not yet bring opportunity cost, or what you could have earned in the time saved by using the more expensive option.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you take the figure, and take the inverse, you find out that using the most expensive logs only shaves about 67 percent off of the total time. So if burning willows takes 5370 minutes (About one minute per inventory), then it would take about 1700 minutes to do it the more expensive way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Given those arbitrary figures, it is easy to figure out opportunity cost. If you spend the extra (5370-1700) = 3670 minutes to do the cheaper way, you are saving 36 million gp. In that amount of time, which is roughly equal to 62 hours, you need to make about 550k gp per hour, every hour, in order to justify using the more expensive way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, many high level merchants can afford that, and make much more than that per hour, but without playing the market, many skillers do not make that much per hour, even if nature runecrafting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: If it takes longer than a minute to burn an inventory of logs, then obviously the opportunity cost is greater, meaning that you would need to make less per hour to afford the change. If it takes less than a minute, then the greater expense is less worth it.

[deathslaya91]

i see what ur trying to say but i dont think the firemaking example made it very clear...no1 burns magics for 99 fm mostly willows/maples/some yews :?

[Duke_Freedom]

A bit more time to reply now..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One failure in the whole arguement is that it doesn't adres that raw material prices never changed as a result of the update. Skill capes could have been introduced 2 years ago as well and the skill capes would have cost the same then too, while rares would have been much cheaper - would you have argued that materials should go down / rares go up then?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see why it suddenly matters that there are now skill capes as we haven't seen a change in price of materials as a result of the skill capes. Among all the various reasons one might bring up for rares sideways fluctuation (third age, lower player population growth, etc etc) I perceive it to be a rather unsignificant reason.

[Clown]

A bit more time to reply now..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One failure in the whole arguement is that it doesn't adres that raw material prices never changed as a result of the update. Skill capes could have been introduced 2 years ago as well and the skill capes would have cost the same then too, while rares would have been much cheaper - would you have argued that materials should go down / rares go up then?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see why it suddenly matters that there are now skill capes as we haven't seen a change in price of materials as a result of the skill capes. Among all the various reasons one might bring up for rares sideways fluctuation (third age, lower player population growth, etc etc) I perceive it to be a rather unsignificant reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

+1

[r2-pleasent]

A bit more time to reply now..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One failure in the whole arguement is that it doesn't adres that raw material prices never changed as a result of the update. Skill capes could have been introduced 2 years ago as well and the skill capes would have cost the same then too, while rares would have been much cheaper - would you have argued that materials should go down / rares go up then?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see why it suddenly matters that there are now skill capes as we haven't seen a change in price of materials as a result of the skill capes. Among all the various reasons one might bring up for rares sideways fluctuation (third age, lower player population growth, etc etc) I perceive it to be a rather unsignificant reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Two years ago, a Party Hat's price was much lower, around 30M for a Blue. At this point in time, this price was not at all comparative to any 99 Skill cost-wise. So, if Skill Capes had come out 2 years ago, I believe Rares would have obviously continued to go up, but likely at a slower rate, and more steadily.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Materials often have little chance to rise and fall in price, mainly due to autoing. With the constant influx of players using macroers at Yew trees, Coal rocks, etc., it's very hard for materials to rise in price, even if there is a higher demand. However, if you look at materials that are much harder to macro, such as High-Alch items (Strung Yew Longs specifically), you notice increased demand, and an increased price. Manufactured materials seem to be the ones that have risen in price, as they are un-autoable. Also, high level materials, such as Magic Logs have also increased in value, going for 1.2K-1.3K each in decent amounts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even a 10-20% rise in certain materials is significant, because the materials market rarely fluctuates much to either side, barring a huge impact in the macroing community. This relationship between Party Hat and Skill Cape does not need to be followed by an increase of prices in materials to remain true. With prices comparatively growing closer, which can be the result of either Rares dropping in price, or Materials going up in price, the effect remains the same. And right now, we are surely seeing Rares dropping, and there are some definite signs of increased demand on the materials marketplace.

[katakid1]

Interesting, but most people burn all willow logs, say 200 thousand. Now you could burn all those in about 1-2 months at 3 hours a day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So about 181 hours.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or 108,600k or 108.6m+5-6m on the logs. so 113-114m, however I no few people who donate all their time to making money, and to make 600k an hour, you would have to rc or merchant non stop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, I spent 3 months on 99 fletching back awhile.

 

 

 

My friend spent the same 3 months on 91 rc abyss only

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I made 14m and there were no skill capes at the time

 

 

 

He made 120m and bought a red p hat, full d etc.

 

 

 

When skill capes came out he spent 20m on 99 fletching and it took him a month.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So who got the better deal then?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It seems money making lets you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Level faster

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Rares increase in value despite raw material prices, because p hats influence raw materials(not hugely, but still), not vice versa.

 

 

 

and Duke Freedom is correct, raw materials are relatively stable.

[E_D_G_E_1039]

I do not agree. I have always thought of the game as not being about wealth and such. Because of that, I tend to think that someone with a single non-buyable 99 is "better" (for lack of better words) then someone who has maxed every buyable skill. (I myself would prefer a game without any money. I am sure at least one person will quote me and attempt to tell me how stupid I am, as if I care :) )

[Clown]

Lets break this down yo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rs, Not everyone can merchant dragon chain or party hats like you might be able to. And not everyone can runecraft. I see people playing castle wars, standing around, doing quests...the game's not about using your time to make money, its about having fun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, the two are hugely different: You could have gotten a party hat with 800 Clicks of a mouse. Whats more, you can merchant party hats and work your way up to another one in about two weeks. What skill takes two weeks to get to 99? A good chunk of your logic is flawed.

[zman123123]

i must agree about the firemaking skill cape.cookings another one you can buy youreself.

 

 

 

i dont know what the price of a blue phat is (490 mill last time i looked) but i have a freind with 99 construction and he says hes spent aboyt 800 mill+ so i think constructions a bit anomolous.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

great topic btw.id like to see people reactions to it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Im not going to call you a liar, but you can get 99 construction with 110m, but lets give it an extra for 10m for extra.. then you can possibly, high doubt it, spent 80m in the house. If you didn't buy creatures you could probably complete a house perfectly like 40m. Maybe ask you freind again?

[zman123123]

sorry but no...u cant hack, scam, or win a stake for an achievement cape.

 

 

 

Skill capes take devotion, not easy ways around that. There is no easy 1 second way to get a skill cape, even if u had the money for 99 firemaking, it takes that person hours to burn them logs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is my point exactly, when I see some people walking around RS with a phat, go talk with them, look how they act. You can tell they didn't farily buy that party hat, i know they hacked, scammed or bought 150+mil for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, thats still easier than sitting hours skilling like you said. I'm so sick of people putting down a skill, that they dont even have ranked( half the time this is true) and their saying 99 is pathetic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Z-Man

[rooneyrules0]

i must agree about the firemaking skill cape.cookings another one you can buy youreself.

 

 

 

i dont know what the price of a blue phat is (490 mill last time i looked) but i have a freind with 99 construction and he says hes spent aboyt 800 mill+ so i think constructions a bit anomolous.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the ultimate sign of wealth thought is a blue phat or 3 full sets of 3rd age armour

 

 

 

great topic btw.id like to see people reactions to it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But how much of that 99 cons is the actual raising, not decorating the house with mable and gold leaf? :wink:

[r2-pleasent]

Lets break this down yo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rs, Not everyone can merchant dragon chain or party hats like you might be able to. And not everyone can runecraft. I see people playing castle wars, standing around, doing quests...the game's not about using your time to make money, its about having fun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, the two are hugely different: You could have gotten a party hat with 800 Clicks of a mouse. Whats more, you can merchant party hats and work your way up to another one in about two weeks. What skill takes two weeks to get to 99? A good chunk of your logic is flawed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You fail to see the point of my topic. All my calculations were simply estimates, just showing an example of how to compare the price of a Party Hat to that of a Skill Cape. I understand not everyone makes 600K an hour, many people make less, there are also people who make more. I am simply saying that both a Party Hat and a 99 Skill require the same resource: TIME. Time spent doing things like Quests, Castle Wars, and other activities are irrelevant to the discussion. I am simply saying that during 1 hour, if a player is working at moneymaking as hard as he were working leveling a certain skill, he would be making X amount per hour if he were instead working towards a Party Hat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What you said with your Castle Wars analogy is like saying, "well i don't get 50K Range exp per hour because when I play this game for 10 hours I spend 3 hours at Castle Wars leveling my Mage instead." But really, the 3 hours you're at Castle Wars have nothing to do with your Range Exp / Hour, because you aren't training Range. Just like spending 3 hours at Castle Wars does not affect your GP production per hour, because you are not moneymaking at the time!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As far as analyzing merchanting by how many "clicks" you're doing, that's just plain ignorant. Sure, you might not be frantically clicking on a Coal Rock, but you are instead browsing forums, watching Fally Park for good offers, and usually doing something like alching at the same time to stay productive. If Merchanting was such an easy way to make gold, more people would be doing it, don't you think? And to compare upgrading a Purple Party Hat to say a Yellow Party Hat in two weeks is comparable to getting a 99 Skill is completely wrong. You obviously missed some serious points of my argument, because the scenarios you're describing are quite irrelevant.

[Clown]

Whateva girlfriend :wink:

[Duke_Freedom]

Two years ago, a Party Hat's price was much lower, around 30M for a Blue. At this point in time, this price was not at all comparative to any 99 Skill cost-wise. So, if Skill Capes had come out 2 years ago, I believe Rares would have obviously continued to go up, but likely at a slower rate, and more steadily.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Doesn't the fact that several skills cost near the amount of money of a phat nowadays (without skill capes in the game) in itself already influence the price of rares negatively? I think you're way too quick in your conclusion that specifically the skill capes have such an important effect, especially since rares were already going sideways in price long before the skill capes even came into the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, I'm sure that the fact that a purple phat can buy you 99 smithing effects the prices of rares, but I don't think skill capes had much influence in making that effect even larger.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Materials often have little chance to rise and fall in price, mainly due to autoing. With the constant influx of players using macroers at Yew trees, Coal rocks, etc., it's very hard for materials to rise in price, even if there is a higher demand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're saying that the "amount of autoing" reacts on the demand? Sorry, no.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, if you look at materials that are much harder to macro, such as High-Alch items (Strung Yew Longs specifically), you notice increased demand, and an increased price...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...Even a 10-20% rise in certain materials is significant, because the materials market rarely fluctuates much to either side, barring a huge impact in the macroing community.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you actually kept track of material prices you'd have known that price changes of 10-20% over long time periods are not that uncommon and thus not that significant at all. Besides, it can be very hard to track what really causes such small changes in material prices in the first place anyway. You also claim strung yew longs are at a high price, yet their current price is still ~50gp below the price they had a year ago?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and there are some definite signs of increased demand on the materials marketplace.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not seeing these "definite signs" at all.

[r2-pleasent]

 

 

 

Doesn't the fact that several skills cost near the amount of money of a phat nowadays (without skill capes in the game) in itself already influence the price of rares negatively? I think you're way too quick in your conclusion that specifically the skill capes have such an important effect, especially since rares were already going sideways in price long before the skill capes even came into the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never said this was the sole reason for Party Hats / Rares declining. I simply said there is a different relationship between Rares and Skills with the implementation of Skill Capes, which are a wearable achievement much the same as a Party Hat or a Santa Hat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, I'm sure that the fact that a purple phat can buy you 99 smithing effects the prices of rares, but I don't think skill capes had much influence in making that effect even larger.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think people are concentrating far too much on the calculations I offered in my post. Yes, Party Hats now seem to be approximately the same prices as a certain 99 Skills, but the reason this comparison is now more significant is that a 99 Skill offers a very similar achievement to a Party Hat, which I am saying creates competition in the market that was before unseen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're saying that the "amount of autoing" reacts on the demand? Sorry, no.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am saying that when there is an increase in macroing, the prices fall, because supply increases, and demand remains constant. I think that's basically common knowledge, we saw this with Rune Essence and Yew Logs about a year ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you actually kept track of material prices you'd have known that price changes of 10-20% over long time periods are not that uncommon and thus not that significant at all. Besides, it can be very hard to track what really causes such small changes in material prices in the first place anyway. You also claim strung yew longs are at a high price, yet their current price is still ~50gp below the price they had a year ago?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, Yew Longs are selling at 600 Ea on Fletching forums, which at least matches their peak from last year. Also, I just did a quick search for Yew Logs on Fletching Forums, and found this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see there are many players paying 350 per Yew Log now. With a low of 250 Each last year, that's a 40% rise in price for Yew Logs. To immediately consider this as proof of Skill Capes' impact would obviously be false and unfounded. But, like I said earlier, it is not necessary for Raw Materials to go up in price for my theory to be true. So long as the comparative values between Materials and Rares changes, which is taking effect right now, since most materials are remaining mostly constant in their prices (although some of them, like Yews, seem to be increasing also), my argument is sound. It actually makes much more sense for Rares to drop as opposed to materials, because Rares have basically been a loose cannon. Their prices are much less stable than materials, which are somewhat constricted by High Alch values and other factors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and there are some definite signs of increased demand on the materials marketplace.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not seeing these "definite signs" at all.

[Duke_Freedom]

I never said this was the sole reason for Party Hats / Rares declining.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I said that you bring it up as an important reason (which you do) and I disagree with that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am saying that when there is an increase in macroing, the prices fall, because supply increases, and demand remains constant. I think that's basically common knowledge, we saw this with Rune Essence and Yew Logs about a year ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes - we were not talking about an increase of macroing though, but about an increase in the popularity of skills, which would mean an increased demand in materials and, by "constant" macroing, an increase in the price of materials.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, Yew Longs are selling at 600 Ea on Fletching forums, which at least matches their peak from last year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To my records they were 625 a year ago and if you really want to know, magic logs were sold in bulk at 1300 each too then - but I didn't really come here to discuss old prices...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My point was that you are claiming way too quickly that these price rises are related to skill capes, while there can be loads of reasons for it and while the fluctuation is way too small to say it is caused by the skill capes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Skills have cost the same price for years now and this value tag doesn't "suddenly" influence the prices of rares now - it always did already.

[Sharane]

Quit declaring party hats as an achievement. I've had one ever since I opened a cracker years ago, but that doesn't make me one of the best players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Owning a party hat is all about luck and priviledge; Skill capes are the achievement. :shame:

[bedman]

Interesting view, but if you burn mage logs you get LOADS MORE experience an hour than 70k. More like 400k or something.

[kudos6969]

Rather annyoing that you assume everyone wearing a party hat got it by staking, or buying it for 10-40m alot ealier, if your like me then you started with nothing and made 140m through my combat skills to buy 1.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

this took alot of time and skill and was alot more fun. as apposed to me spending all my time on one boring skill trying to get 99 and hardly earning anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i achieved my purple party hat via barrows and player killing and it took around 4 months.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i equally achieved my 99 magic a long time ago and did that by pkin every day and buying yew longs and natures with all profit. witch took about the same time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When you calculate anything so far you have assumed that the person just does that 1 skill and already has th emoney to do it or will just fish, mine, etc untill they have done it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is easy to say that the buyable skills are the hardest to do.

 

 

 

1-99 mining takes lots of mining and your there 3-4 months less if you have little of a life and would be very boring.

 

 

 

1-99 construction assuming you are "buying" it : 3-6 months at barrows to get the money and then a further 1-3 months training it.

[woodcutter12]

wow, never thought if this before, good job :P

[r2-pleasent]

Quit declaring party hats as an achievement. I've had one ever since I opened a cracker years ago, but that doesn't make me one of the best players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Owning a party hat is all about luck and priviledge; Skill capes are the achievement. :shame:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd say the vast majority of players earn their money to buy a Party Hat. The amount of people who actually still holds a Phat Set from the drop in 2002 are EXTREMELY small. I'd say just about 95% of Party Hat owners bought their Phat from another player, meaning they earned the money themselves, as opposed to watching their investment grow over 4+ years. And who said that a Party Hat, or a 99 Skill made you one of the best players? Look at how many people have 99 Cooking or Fletching, that would be a lot of "best players". Owning a Party Hat is about MUCH MORE than luck, just ask the hundreds of players who worked, as I did, to save up the money to afford one.

[sediti0n]

U've made a good point, but I don't think that the introduction of skill capes would have made that much of an impact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Taking the example of logs again..Sure, the demand for logs for fletching and firemaking may have risen slightly due to people wanting a skill-cape for those 2 skills, but so would the supply of logs due to people CUTTING the logs to get the wc skill-cape. I dare say wc is a much more popular skill than fm, and the existance of a fm skill-cape isn't going to make a large amount of people think "oo let's spend X amount of money to get a fm skill-cape", if they weren't already going to do so anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The game basically has 3 categories of players:

 

 

 

- Those who mostly train skills

 

 

 

- Those who mostly make money

 

 

 

- Those who just have fun and do a bit of everything

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the whole, people aren't going to be swayed into aiming for skill-capes if they already spend their time making money or doing other things (of course, there will be exceptions)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People that already skill will continue to skill, people that make money will continue to make money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Basically I agree there may be a relationship, but theres definitely not a strong or significant one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure why everyone's been so wrapped up in the idea of party hats = skill-capes..money has always been "worth" xp, and xp has always been "worth" something. Money is stored ability to do things in game, whether that be buying a phat or a 99-skill. Of course phats and 99-skills are the same. If u have 200m spare cash for example, u have a choice to either use it on a phat or a 99-skill. People take the opportunity cost of buying (or keeping) a phat to buy a 99-skill instead - that's always been the case while I played. The only difference is that the oportunity cost of the 99-skill is perhaps greater because u can't sell it for the amount spent on it again as u can for a phat, but yeah..that's not relevant... I definitely agree with u here :) And I dare say I know more about cash vs. skills than anyone here..so it's true..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plus, I don't think most people understand the term "opportunity cost" :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Whoever claimed that people with phats scammed/hacked/cheated to get them..just..no. I worked for my wealth, and happily gave it all away to my friends that deserved it for being such great friends.

[12pure34]

I simply adore your ways of calculating. I tend to try to understand it, which I most of the time do. Only you should make some more realistic numbers. 600k / hour is over our heads. Try 400k.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To my opinion, a blue party hat is not something I'd want. I prefer a high skill. One of my favorite skills is runecrafting. Ever since it came out, I'd enjoyed it. I could finally make my own runes! Runes were always a problem for me. RSC magic was useless compared to magic in RS2. Runes were way to expensive and not obtainable in quantity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now with RC, I could make my own runes, which made me feel rich. Now I became member and I already had 54 RC. I am currently 61 and I'm just about to start another run, as I want lvl 70. This will earn me lots of money. Merchanting COULD be faster. If I am a good merchanter, I might make over 200k per hour profit. But even if I am a good merchanter.. At higher levels I can earn more money. Even if I have a bad day, I could earn money. Even if the entire economic is falling apart, I could make money! Skilling makes me feel rich, as I know I can always fall back on those things. I am not dependant on a good market.

[milemaster55]

party hats = skill capes? i dont think so. a skill cape means you spent hundreds of hours leveling a useful skill, whereas you could have spend those hours merchanting to get the money to buy a party hat with absolutely no skills at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

as far as the buyable skills go, i guess you could compare them to partyhat prices, but still, after you're done, you actually have a 99 skill to make that money back with later(even firemaking, if you count shade burning, maybe not so much with construction).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

but as for your "theory," id say its pretty much common knowledge that people are putting more value on the skillcapes now than just having a lot of wealth, which is what a partyhat shows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i guess you could say the construction cape is comparable to a party hat, but for other skills, i'd say no. to me, i'd rather have a few skill capes than a set of partyhats.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

im just going to out on a limb here and say that merching is harder than clicking a thousand-million times, almost any moron can click again, and again, but you have to THINK to merchant, you have to use the forums, know the prices, and know what you are doing. Not that im a huge supporter of merchanting, i hardly ever did it, but they DO keep prices stable and if they put in the time and effort, they are rewarded in their own fashion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OT: skillcape PWNZ pee-HAT